Ducati Monster Forum

I've currently got a 1999 750 with FCR's, leo pipes, etc.

I really am not much of a fan of my S4r as I prefer the 2v motor. So I will probably sell that.

But I'd like some more power, so here is the question:

900 motor swap with a 944 kit installed?


or

take it to my mechanic and have him do engine work that will upgrade the 750 to a 795 which yields about 87hp at the rear wheel (I will link to his page if you want to see the dyno chart).



Bueller?

900 motor swap for sure.  [thumbsup]

a 944cc with short manifolds peaks at 87.9hp (from his website, on his dyno)

I am not too picky about a dry vs wet.


Just looking for more mid-range which the 750 would give and the 944 would give more top end, which I have very little interest in.

900 swap ftw.

It will make more power everywhere

Plus you'll get a 6th gear (750's are 5 spd right?)

Yeah, it would get an extra gear.


How would it make more power when they have equal HP, with the 944 making 8 more lbs of torque? That noticeable?

What's the torque comparison betwen the two? I suspect the 900 has quite a bit more.

Anyway...I just like the 900 engine.  ;D

Also...87 hp at the rear wheel seems like a lot for a bored 750. My 1000DS motor (stock, but with full exhaust and open air box) doesn't put that much out.  ???

944 kit, definitely.  Those 944 engines feel really good.  The dyno numbers aren't going to tell you too much about how it'll feel on the street.  I don't know about that specific 750 kit, but the couple of hopped up  750s I've ridden just don't match the 944 kit. 

Honestly, though, unless you're in love with your 750, I'm not sure I'd mess around with the $ in doing a motor swap with a 750.  I'd just buy a more modern air-cooled Duc with FI.  For the price of the engine plus the cost of your 750, you're already in the range of a FI 900 or an earlier 1000. 

Torque peak at different revs could yield the same hp number.

ie

80ft/lb @ 7000 rpm = 106hp

or

90ft/lb @ 6185 rpm = 106hp

Look at the torque curve more than the Hp curve.  HP is just a number derived by multiplying torque and the rpm it's made at and dividing by 5252.

The two numbers that change everything (including the riding experience) are torque produced and the rpm it's produced at.

Sure the 900 will make more top end than the 750, it displaces more and can efficiently burn more fuel in the upper range.

Because of that it will do better in the mid range as well.

I googled and didn't really see much in the way of dyno charts for 900's and 750's (let alone with big bore kits)  They have to be out there.

Got $ to spend, 944.  More power EVERYWHERE.  Mid-range, upper end, 6th gear, dry-clutch, timing belts are cheaper, etc...

Trying to do it on the cheap:  Drop-in 11:1 Ferracci pistons (or Pistal, or whomever) in your existing barrels and top it off with either 695 or 800 heads.  Same manifolds, so same carbs, same exhaust manifold location and you can do it IN the frame.

My bad........84.98 and 59fp torque (the line I looked at was when he dumped in some race fuel)


Here is a link to his dyno result along with the mods:

http://www.hordpower.com/gallery/album07/795ssIgnition?full=1 (http://www.hordpower.com/gallery/album07/795ssIgnition?full=1)


(side note about JD: when Pegram raced with the 749 punched to an 848....they spoke with JD as he already had done the punch out for Mark Hatten)


Monsterlover - go to www.hordpower.com (http://), click on "dyno charts" on the left and then select "ducati"

These are all done on a dyno in his garage (yes, he has a Dyno 250), which he built last year. Previously he had a shop, but built one behind his house to be closer.



Was trying to do it cheaper vs more expensive.

obviously throw on about a grand just for the motor........

A couple other things to consider when thinking of the 900 upgrade would be the 5.5" rear wheel, and the sprocket carrier that goes with it.

Just went through this making a 750ss into a 900ss

The wheel swap is optional BTW.

Well, that is true.

I use the bike for the track and wanted the larger contact patch you get from a 180 over the 160.

For a street bike I don't think it would matter unless you rode knee down all over the place ;D

Makes sense now...that's quite a bit of work to the engine.

No replacement for displacement!  [thumbsup]

That's the problem; I am in love with my 750 Dark. It was my first Ducati, bought it when personal life was not going so great and that bike brought me out of my funk or maybe it was the crazy ducati community? Who knows.

I definitely see what you are saying about a new FI900 or 1000, but I just like that bike too much to part with it.


yeah it is.

JD is an engine guy, that's all he likes to really do.

Not to mention his labor rate is only 40$ an hour and charged by the 1/4 hour.

6k service (more like 8k), with timing belts is going to run me under 450$

That would cover half of your new 900 engine ;)

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

gotta get that service done before I sell it; I won't sell a ducati that hasn't been properly maintained.

In that case I would suggest servicing it after the 750 is out of the frame.

Easier to work on while it's on the bench.  Could save you a little money.

Count up what you are looking to spend on the 750 motor.  Then price a 900 engine vs. what you can get for the 750 engine on resale.  Contact Chris at cacycleworks and find out the numbers he got out of a 900 with a good bit of work done to it.  See what the price difference is.  I am pretty sure that he achieved 104 hp from his 944 with some headwork as well.

The 104hp 900 motor was/is a 966 that's got an EASY $4,000 into it.

Try to find an 1100 DS from a wrecked Mulit or newer Monster 1100.  I haven't seen one for sale in quite a while, but I would guess they would be around $2K.  Would they fit in the 750 frame?  I don't see why not, but I'm sure someone here knows for sure.

staying carby.

I have 39 FCR's which are fine on a 900 motor.


Don't want FI.

You can put carbs on the 1000 & 1100 DS engines.  My local shop does it.  They say the FCR 's offer quicker response than the fuel injection.  I'm not sure of what size carbs would work best though.  The 39 FCR's you currently have may work.

What do they do to run the ignition system?

Well lets just say he doesnt have that much to spend.  If he were going to spend about 1500-2000 then calculate around 800-100 to buy a 900 and then the rest of what he was going to spend + what he gets from the resale of the 750 engine and he will have more power from the 900 for the same cost and still have room to add more power at a later date.

I'm in the same boat as you. Want more grunt and to stay carby. I decided to go with finding a 900. Partly because more displacement is better for a strong feeling low mid range. Partly for the least functional reason possible, the 944 is the most bad ass sounding Duc I've ever heard. 
I'm looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

This would be my vote also.

My previous Duc was a mostly stock 92 900ss, that I sold about two years ago.

Last month I bought a 01 M900sie from the DMF flea market that just so happend to have a F by F big bore 944 kit in it.  All I can say is WOW !  [bow_down] Night and day difference !  Loads of great usable power from just off idle with a mid range punch that makes me giggle.  [moto]

I am very pleased with it so far, good luck in your decision.  [thumbsup]

No offence, but around here, fixing up a 750 would be considered polishing a turd. It's thought of as a girl's bike.
$1000 will get you a nice carb'd 900 on the used market and another $1000 will put a 944 kit on it.

Could you sell the 39's to get 41's with the new 900 motor?

If you were going to stick with your 750, I'd look at lightening up all the parts inside it as well as high comp pistons with big bore kit, and an aggressive cam. But that's not cheap either. But there'd be something to be said for a displacement between 750 and 900/944/955/966 that spun up really fast and made quite a bit of "go-fast".

there is no reason to get upgrade to 41's.

The 39's will work just fine on a 900 motor.


The heads that Chris put on Pongo cost like 4k or something around there. Not looking to spend that much.

I have a local engine builder that is very suitable for the work.

If you stick with your 750, you may benefit from contacting VeeTwo right now and getting some of their perf. cams --> they are having one hell of a sale currently.

I think after talking to my mechanic, we are going with a 900 upgrade.

It would be a bit costly to get a 750 to where his operates at.....

I think he did a lot of custom machining on it.

You made the right decision.

Welcome to the dark side ;D

I agree with the 900  [thumbsup]

But really? If some guy pulls up on a 750 where you live (I have no clue), you/they think he's on a girls bike?

Pinche!

Around where? And by whom?

Asheville, NC.
Blue Ridge Parkway, Deal's gap, and about 100 wild motorcycle roads.
Yes, we tease them mercilessly. Remember, when the 750 was 1st introduced in the US, it was as a starter Ducati - hence - girl's bike. All the current small displacements seem to be pretty good performers, but don't tell anyone I said that.

hmmm... Interesting.   [roll]

I find that my polished turd does quite a nice job of embarrassing larger displacement bikes/riders in the canyons.  It's all about corner speed.  Of course, having said that, some of the "girl" riders I know could smoke 3/4s of the guys on this board, myself included....   [moto]

Now, THAT being said, go for the motor swap. I'm thinking about possibly upgrading mine to an '04/'05 M800 motor.  The headers, air intakes, etc... are in the exact same place as the 750 motor, thereby making it possible to keep my exhaust, using my carbs, etc...   [thumbsup]

Come to think of it, the track record here in Albuquerque was held for a very long time (and still may be) by a 600cc bike.  Hmmm...

600cc, water cooled engine, right? Different animal entirely than the small air-cooled Monsters.


Anyway...funny to see all the little Monster owners get worked up when Norm calls their bikes girls bikes!  [laugh] [laugh]

It is but it's old as dirt.

I am a girl and my little monster is an M1000 and I also have a 1098s.  I just thought some of the comments were a little silly.

Nice bikes!  [thumbsup]

Thanks.  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/curtsie.gif)

Maybe the smaller displacements should be referred to as "numbers challenged" to be more PC.  Really though I don't think Norm's intention was to belittle women in any way.  My first bike was a 750 and I loved it but as far as power goes it really was lacking. (im kinda big too so that didn't help)  Ducati air cooled twins of any displacement are not exactly revered for their high HP numbers. 

As a board we should come up with a more acceptable term for the smaller displacements that people don't take as much offense to but that we can still have fun with.

OP good luck with the swap and hopefully your budget allows for a few internal mods while you have it all torn down.

Hmm...should we start another thread?  Anti-liter, Non-liter, lessthan-liter, sub-liter, no-water-so-what-difference-does-it-make-liter...etc.  Just thinkin...   8)

...or we could require slightly thicker skins. ;D

Why do we need a term for them? Just call 'em 750's, 695's, 620's... Etc...

What I took umbrage with is when people use a term that in and of itself isn't derogatory, but that manner in which it is used makes it so.

Now if someone said to me, "you ride like a girl" and my friend Terry* was standing next to me, I'd take it as a compliment. She's ridiculously fast and skilled and makes veteran riders on liter bikes quake in their boots on the track.

So you see, it's all in the tone (hard to convey in forum setting) in which remark is stated. 

*name changed to protect the innocent.  ;)

indeed

[laugh]

I'm not sure if people assumed from my post that I was one of the offended. But I was merely seeking clarification.  Which I received. I've always thought of my 750 as just that, a 750. I've also always felt that people who think the displacement of a bike is equivlant to its masculinity are either having a good time or are just plain ignorant. 

I'll be at Deals Gap Oct 4-9th so I'll get to see for my self if the opinions hold true.

FWIW, my car is a Miata

popular car for the Gap, actually.

Always liked the Miata.  My dad had a '66 MGB, and the Miata is the closest thing to an old British sports car in the modern era.   [thumbsup]

If I were able to have a play car, it would probably be a Miata. Or a Lotus Super 7. Or maybe a Porche 914....    ;D

Westfield makes a sweet super 7 kit that uses a salvage miata for a donor car. I've been wanting to build one for years. http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/ (http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/)

REEEAAALLLLY....?   [evil]

 I'll have to check out the link when I have a little time to pay close attention to it. That could be dangerous ( as in I would spend way too much time and $$$ kind of dangerous).  ;)

...it is unfortunate that you decided to be negative and assume the worst from what the individual had posted.  You should see what us Harley riders have to put with on this board...    :'( [cheeky]

As was stated earlier, maybe a little thicker skin is in order.   [thumbsup]

AMEN!
These guys think the H-D guys are elitists.  :-\
  Funny part, I don't hardly ever hear them talk about other bikes, but most of them say they like Ducati's, weird.

Keith King