Ducati Monster Forum

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/09/ducati-hypermotard-796-smaller.html (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/09/ducati-hypermotard-796-smaller.html)

Looks to be powered by the 696 motor.  Hopefully they'll also increase the fuel capacity. 

"Hypomotard." [laugh]

It's about time!

If this is true and the price is right I may have found my new bike!

I hope this is true.  [evil]

It should be called the Hypermotard 696 if that is the engine displacement.  I don't like it when they try to mess with the names to make it sound like it is more than it really is. 

I agree with that, but I think people would expect it to be the same price as a 696 if it had that number after the name.  With a "796", they can charge $3-4k more. :)

YeahYeah, but we dont know what the whole story is. They may be planning on messing with bore/stroke. I mean think about it. If the 696 puts out a claimed 80 hp then if they bore that open, they could see 90+ with same power plant. Less is more. My dealer thinks the only difference between my 08' S2R 1k and the 1100 are the cylinders. Most likely a direct replacement. I would think there would be much more to it than that, but I know that I will be searching the graveyards for a wreck one if that is the case.

Working on this idea, but if you throw on a 66mm stroked crank (already in their parts bin from the old 800) with the 696 you get 796cc

Been waiting for this.... as soon as they announce it... I will be at BH Ducati with my down payment!  [thumbsup]

that is SO gonna be my next cati.


(only the 4th or so duc ive said that about)

you guys realize that is a 1100ds tard with a 796 poorly photoshopped on?


mitt

It's been confirmed by a company source.  I guess we will know for sure on Oct. 12th. 

+1. and the font choice of '796' is not consistent with any of Ducati's lettering.

I do, however, not appreciate the misleading nomenclature given to the 999/749 when they displaced less than that but the name was already taken by a previous model. Unless both models are on the floor at the same time, just do it like the monsters: give them an additional designation or we'll just call it the 03 and newer 998's and the classic 998's etc.

hmm just when i thought my next bike was going to be the KTM supermoto, here Ducati throws a wrench into my plans again.  Have to start calling the banks.

Like Memphis said, it's not all that uncommon for motorbike companies to use supposed engine displacements in the model names for marketing purposes.  BMW's F6xx uses the same concept, only they advertise less than the actual displacement.  It's an 8xx cc motor that they down tune and named differently to seem more appealing to beginning riders (not many people want to start out on an 800cc bike).

While I think it would sell just as well if they called it the Hypermotard 696, it's really up to the consumer to know their shit and not wander into a dealership without knowing the product.  It's not like they don't post all the tech specs on their site.

That being said, I'd flog the shit out of that thing :) 

I don't care if the call it the Hypermotard 11tybillion, I'd still ride it.

I know it is not uncommon for motorcycle & car manufactures to use made up engine displacements in their model names for marketing reasons and I do know about the new BMW F650, but it still doesn't make it right.  I don't want to have to explain to anyone why my bike is called the F650 when it is really an 800 cc engine.  I don't mind if they round up just a little bit.  For example, the 1000 DS engine is really 992cc.  It really isn't a big deal, but if I had to ride my Hypermotard 796 around for a couple of years it would bug me when the new guy in the parts department gets confused when I need a part for my 796 and he couldn't find it in his database until someone explains that it is a 696. 

Really, and all along I thought these guys had the inside skinny.

The decals come off.  ;)

Ehh, I'm over other people thinking my 800 is either more or less powerful than the next bike or thinking my S2R is only a 620, thinking an I4 600 is soooo much slower than my 800 Ducati (fastest bikes on earth), etc.  The stupid parts newbie aside (he would have to be pretty dense, BTW), I'm not gonna fret over name vs. displacement discrepancies, but I dig the concept of a more "around town" friendly 'tard.

Other then being lighter (how much will be interesting) I'd rather have my 1100S. A smaller displacement bike isn't going to be any "easier" to ride around town. We are talking about about the easiest bike to ride around town to begin with. Granted I bought a CRF250X dirtbike and sold it a week later and bought the 450X. I like the ability to wheelie over or outrun problems I encounter in the road/dirt.

Are you implying that the fullsize Hyper isn't easy to ride in town?

Have you ever ridden one?







That's exactly what I was wondering too.

I would also like to see just how much "lighter" the smaller displacement bike will be.

It could be substantial, or it could be not all that much:

1999 M900 - 403.4# (dry) (carbd)
2000 M900 - 407.9# (dry) (ie)
2000 M750 - 392.4# (dry) (carbd)

2009 M1100 - 372.6# (dry)
2009 M696 - 354.9# (dry)

2009 1198 - 377.0# (dry)
2009 848 - 370.4 (dry)

i took data from www.bikez.com (http://) amongst all their horrendous ads.

DAVE!!!  What's the word.





Dave says....Wait until Oct 12  [laugh]

hmmm...

might be fun  [thumbsup]

If they put the 66mm 800 crank into the 696 motor, since it shares the same bore as the 803cc '800' motor it would also be an 803cc.

Perhaps the new '796' moniker is to align it's heritage to the new 696 motor but differentiate it from the older 803cc '800' motor despite the fact that it would share the same bore and stroke.

Oh, that makes a lot of sense. I would think that's a logical plan to try out too.

yep thinking about doing this too. stu, still have that crank?

Yes I do.  ;)

been thinking about this... probably should move the 696 engine upgrade thread but...
if i got the 66mm crank don't i need the rods to go with which would be shorter right? the 696 has a 10.7:1 compression ratio already so seems there wouldn't be much room for stock conrods to be used.

i know thread jack so i'll post this comment on the other thread as well
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29188.msg514147#msg514147 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29188.msg514147#msg514147)

I think I'm in love...

The 1100 is a little too big for my frame, so I hope they make it smaller like they did the 696 compared to the 1100 monster.

 [thumbsup]

From MCN:

Ducati won’t officially talk about the details of the bike other than to confirm we will be seeing a new model of some sort next week.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2009/September/sep1809-Smaller-ducati-hypermotard-to-be-unveiled-next-week/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2009/September/sep1809-Smaller-ducati-hypermotard-to-be-unveiled-next-week/)

Is the 696 Monster smaller than the 1100 Monster?  I thought they were the same size.  I know the 1100 has a higher ride height, but that is due to changes in the suspension. 

The 1100 Hyper weighs 390. I would think the 796 would be alittle lighter. (330 when I get done with it  [evil])

Threadjack. (This one is falling on it's face)

Thanks for the new avatar D.


???

This is ranking right up there with the 848 vs.1098 seat height comparisons.

Nothin' like an extra quarter inch.

...Thats what she says.

 

Should have typed this in the sarcastic font...   :-\

Just saying I wish it was a little smaller...   :-[

Thats awesome  :D

We can get that bike as looooow as you want.  [thumbsup]

Seat height: 696 770mm vs 1100 810mm. 40mm is a huge difference, for what we're talking about (?)

The 1100 Hyper has a lower seat height then the new R6. It's not really as bad as people think. The Hyper is much smaller in person.

I didn't know we were talking about the monster.  Sorry my bad. :-X

It's up on Ducati.com now.


http://www.ducati.com/news/09/news018/news018.jhtml (http://www.ducati.com/news/09/news018/news018.jhtml)

HYPERMOTARD 796. The new way to ‘Go Hyper’
Ahead of the EICMA International Motorcycle Show in Milan, Ducati release images previewing its newest model – the fun and versatile Hypermotard 796.

Just as aggressively striking as the 1100, the lightweight new Hypermotard 796 features a lower seat height and brand new smooth and flexible engine to make it the perfect urban assault vehicle.

A dry weight of just 167kg (368lb) and seat height of 825mm (32.5in) makes the Hypermotard 796 a sure-footed 20mm (0.8in) lower than the 1100 and inspires confidence however and wherever it’s ridden.

The completely new Ducati 796 engine has a bore and stroke of 88mm x 66mm, conforms to Euro 3 regulations and produces 81hp (59.6kW) of power and 55.7lb-ft (7.7kgm) of torque with the smooth and very economic rideability enjoyed from all Desmodue L-Twins.

The new power unit is also equipped with an APTC ‘wet’ clutch to give a ‘slipper’ type action that prevents destabilization of the rear-end during aggressive down-shifting and also gives the extra benefit of a super-light feel at the adjustable lever, a great advantage in stop-start city traffic or during longer journeys.

The new Hypermotard 796 comes in an urban-style Dark finish with matte black tank and beak section, black frame and black wheels or, alternatively, matte white tank with contrasting matte black beak, black frame and black wheels. For the purists, an 1100 look-alike with Ducati red tank with matching beak section, red frame and black wheels gives the 796 a traditional livery.

Whether it's working the daily commute or attacking the open roads, the 796 will ride the common ground between manners and madness by mixing Ducati’s unrivalled twin-cylinder power and sportbike heredity with the lightweight and minimalist supermotard concept. Available in Ducati stores from late October, a brand new way to go Hyper: The Hypermotard 796.

Bigger engine than the 696 then [thumbsup], but 1 HP more according to their dyno [bang]

Sorry but this is a waste! I would like from Ducati to see exclusives bikes not scaled down versions... Is ok with the Monster line and the 848 is a totally different bike but a small Hyper(not that hyper anymore) Why? they already have a begginer bike (696) why they need another?

Save your money and by a 1100 and the extra oversize tank!  [bow_down]

It appears that the Hyper will be priced in the range of $9500-$10k when it lands here in the US. 

Here are a couple of the official pics:

(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Ducati_Hypermotard_796_3.jpg)

(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Ducati_Hypermotard_796_2.jpg)

(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Ducati_Hypermotard_796_1.jpg)

If accurate, I like it.   [thumbsup]

They should be accurate.  They're the same pics you see on Ducati.com.  ;)

I was hoping for an even lower height and more weight savings... So that someone a bit newer to riding would feel comfortable picking one up.

Man, saw this on ducati.com today and thought "cool, lower seat height!".  Then I looked.  0.8" lower.  probably not enough to make me buy it, I love the Hyper but with a 29" inseam it's simply too tall.

What I've really been hoping for though, since the release of the streetfighter, is an 848 version.  That would rock my world!

Good things come in small packages.  I like what I see with the 796.  Who knows, maybe Ducati IS listening to the public by creating more entry-level models under $10K.  Yes, now how about a Streetfighter 848?   [thumbsup]

My wife is 5'-4" and can ride my Multistrada. You can ride a Hyper...just gotta get used to the height. All it takes is being careful (i.e. planning) with stops when you're getting used to the bike.  [thumbsup]

why not make it more "dirt-bikeish" I mean its supposed to be a supermoto right why not make it like a Aprilla,  Something to compete with KTM.

It is comparable to an Aprilia.  Witness the Dorsoduro 750:

(http://www.aprilia.com/assets/184/dorsoduro-750-nero-aprilia_cropped_406x375.jpg)

Not any direct competitors from KTM, though it could be argued that the 690 Duke might appeal to the same buyer profile.

(http://ktmusa.com/fileadmin/swf/productspecials/uploads/690DukeOR.jpg)

With more weight reduction...that could be a REALLY fun Ducati.

Like single rotor w/upgrades, some wire reduction, drilling out the rotors...   

Hmmm......  :D

 [bang]  errrr just noticed the 796 HM gets the SSS... NOT fair

They could've re-used the steel DSS from the Multi620... 

27lbs is a HUGE weight savings IMO

the dorsoduro is more like Hyper1100 competition... ithink it has a bit more horsepower....

It does have 5 more ft/lbs of torque.  55.7 ft/lbs for the 796 vs. 50.6 ft/lbs @ 7750 rpms for the 696. 

It is interesting that they created a new 796 engine.  I wonder if this will go into the smaller 696 Monster in a couple of years to become the 796 Monster.  They list a bore and stroke of 88mm X 66mm.  What was the bore and stroke of the 803cc Monster motor?  Why didn't they just use the 803cc motor in this bike?

There is going to be an all Matte black version and an all red version too.  Ducati will probably save these for the show.

The 690 Duke will definitely be a competitor to this new 796 Hyper.  It looks like they will cost about the same.  The 796 is listed at $9995 on the U.S. website.  IIRC that is what the 690 Duke sells for. 

the 696 motor is better than the 803 with better combosution chamber shape and heads. reason there was such a increase between teh 695 to 696.

so a better starting point for more cc's.

The heads sit on top of the pistons.   Why change the bore and stroke of the exiting 803 engine?  Why not simply update the heads?

Sand cast cases of the new motors? That process allows a lighter weight motor...so better to start with the newer design.  ???

Noted, but in general they're all competing for similar buyers.  They aren't the true "Supermoto" bikes like the SXV and the KTM SMC bikes.

They didn't that is the same bore/stroke combo as the 800.  The engine is a 696, same bore as the 800, with the 800 crank.

Ah ha! just what I suspected.  So it really is an 803 cc engine with the same bore & stroke (with the current minor updates applied to the 1100 & 696.)  This could be good in the future for current Monsters with the 800 engine.  If they can find a wrecked 796 Hyper they might use the heads from the newer engine for a few more ponies.

http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore_stroke.html (http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore_stroke.html) -  88 mm bore X 66 mm stroke = 802.9 

I either need an emoticon for crossed eyes, or gonna' snipe your avatar T.

Me loosing focus!    c a n ' t ......   
                               
                               s   e   eeee

DS1000 & 1100 heads won't fit onto a 900 motor as well as 796/696 heads won't fit on the old generation small-case Ducati's (600, 620, 695, 750 & 800).

The old motors (900, 600, 620, 750, 695, 800) don't have cylinder head gaskets between the barrels & heads.  696/796/DS1*00 motors do.

That is why the heads won't swap between the old & new.

Thanks Duck-Stew for the clarification.  So how did the old motors make a seal between the barrels and heads if they didn't use a cylinder head gasket? 

Only on the DMF would a thread about the newest announced Ducati immediately sidebar into a discussion of the cylinder head design of Ducati motors over the years  [laugh]   [thumbsup]

Machined aluminum bore in the head that receives the bore.  Just aluminum on aluminum.  NO gasket.

Thats what I thought you were going to say.  It doesn't sound right, but I guess it works. Were there ever any problems with the older design?  I guess you couldn't "blow a head gasket", but you could still have a leak.

It is sort of like the fact that there are no cam bearings in the latest air-cooled engines.  The cam simply rests in the heads.  It doesn't sound good for rebuild-ability, but I guess it works.

I have an 1100 Hyper and it is a really tall bike.  The 796 is only going to be an inch lower which won't attract buyers who want a "smaller" Hyper.  I don't know how much they will ask for this, but with non-adjustable forks and a wet clutch, it should be well under $10,000.  I just got my '09 for $10,400.

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p294/Monkeyrobb/Motorcycle/downsized_0806091556.jpg)

now look at what you can do to one

(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs207.snc1/7416_152508822712_152454542712_2718092_7282599_n.jpg)

I'm curious to see where this bike goes.  I could almost be in the market for a decent "town bike", but I almost feel the KTM is more my thing...

I like the thought of a smaller, lighter Hyper. If I were in the market, I think I would prefer a 796S with the adjustable suspension from the 1100S than the base 1100.

Well maybe you'll almost make a choice...

[laugh]

Actually, the KTM that I like is not being brought over to the US anymore.  So oh well...

 

I've been looking at the 690 Duke, but this bike has got my attention....almost.  ;D

I know a few people who took long looks at those.  Problem is, the dealer here wasn't terribly willing to get any in without a full commitment on the bike first. 

For me it is the 690 Supermoto (R).  Really like the upswept exhaust and the Spy Vs Spy looks.  ;)

$10,400 OTD?  I don't think my local will go for that kind of price reduction.  I rode the HM1100 and liked it a lot, but am wary of the HM ergonomics seeing as I have a SM now and don't like it.  The HM is less upright/sit-up-and-beg than my SM so it was more comfortable to ride on my short test ride.  I think the HM796 fills that niche for people who don't want a beginner bike like the M696, but don't want the significant added grunt of the 1100.  If it comes with n-a forks, then it might be a waste of money.

That same bike will likely end up being $12,995 in 2010 maintaining the same cost gap between the models as the Monster.

$10,400 OTD for a $12K bike is an exceptional deal also. I doubt many people will be able to get that.

not sure if you are calling the 696 a 'beginner bike' how much difference the 796 would be. 1 more hp and a few more lb ft torque. same clutch, etc. i wouldn't doubt if they're using the same single sided front damper in the forks. depending on the gearing, the 696 will top out near 130mph. which probably is faster that the 796 due to seating/windprotection. sorry have to defend my baby.

I'd have to agree with you Raux - IMO 696 is an entry level DUCATI, not your typical beginners bike.

+1 love riding my spy vs spy  [thumbsup]

+1

I don't really see any difference between the M696, or Hyper796. Both are entry level Ducatis.

I have a 2008 Hyper 1100S.  I don't think I would rush out and buy an 800cc Hyper.  The torquey 1100cc motor is what makes the Hyper so much fun to ride.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/HyperStrada.jpg)

Awesome Hyper... And custom Motardastradabadassbike  [thumbsup]

 

yep same company as before... S&P

You should do a set of those pipes on your remod Raux.
Along with the other things you are working on, that bike is going to be amazing!

I'm with that 100%.


Unless the MiniTard is lighter by enough to make it worth it.

Just went to my dealer's website, they are listing the MiniTard at $9,995.   They are also listing it at 28lbs lighter than an HM1100. 

correct me if im wrong but doesnt this look like a dry clutch case?
(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/galleries/images/Ducati_Hypermotard_796_3.jpg)

That's the new look for the wet clutch cover. Look at a pic of the 696:
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200802/ducati-monster-696-n-1_460x0w.jpg)

ah, bullocks!

I think you'll find the word is bollocks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollocks).

Only if he looks...

I guess they're not sticking with the whole "only one entry level bike and the rest is premium" thing. This however is the one model I never thought they'd make a cheaper/less powerfull/easier (whichever explanation they choose) version of.

Anyone taking bets when we'll be seeing a 796 Monster with SSS?

That's significant. I dropped that with my exhaust/airbox/fender eliminator job and still have an 1100 mill but I could see where the 796 could be fun with a serious effort to get it to 300 lbs.

I might step up to the plate.  [evil]

bet they're using the new casting of the 696 motor. the 696 is at 355 with the old casting. thinking the new castings might lower that to 350? or so.

would that have to be the case? as a 696 owner i was hoping for an of the shelf sss (less the wheels of course)

any ideas?

i think the rear suspension is different than the 696. i haven't seen enough pictures yet though.

Note sure if the 32.5 seat height is from a lowered seat or suspension etc because there is after market seat out there that lowers the height by another .8 inch unless that's what the bike comes with =)

So that gets it to like 31.8ish =)

thats exactly what i was thinking

that is if you think easy is forking over $2000 for new sss wheels, and maybe a new rear brake.

I got dibs on first crashed minitard!

the rear shock location is totally different from the M696 to the HM796. can't imagine the work it would take to modify the swingarm. best to wait for goodies coming down the line.

when you say, best wait for the goodies... are you talking to us 696 owners?

do you know something Raux? come on! spill it Raux!

(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200906/2009-ducati-monster-1100-9_800x0w.jpg)
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200909/ducati-hypermotard-7-1_800x0w.jpg)

If you look at the 1100, which probably uses a very similar sub frame as the 696, it's in a different location compared to the MiniTard.  Chances are, it wouldn't be a plug-n-play mod, but might be still able to be done.

the locations are way different. you basically would have to make sure the HM shock can lean forward enough in the swingarm to reach the 696 shock mount point and then add about 2 inches to its length to reach. then make sure the shock angle doesn't hit anything on the back of the motor.

tell you what. since my bike is apart, someone give me a HM rear w/wheel to test it.  [roll]

 [popcorn] [bacon]

do this comparison with a 696 not an 1100, the 1100 is a completely different engine, i agree though, here this looks way off

yes, but the 696/1100 frames look like they are basically the same, including the frame shock mount point.  The MiniTard uses a different frame & Frame mount point, which is not as deep in the frame as the 696/1100, I'm not sure that the shock would clear the exhaust & motor.  I will say this, the 696 does mount it's shock off to the left side of the DSS swing arm, roughly in the same  place as the 1100.  Maybe the 1100 would be a better donor?  If the HM uses the same case, then maybe it's not so much a question of engine case structural suitability as finding the donor swing arm with the right geometry?

i personally think an 1100 would direct fit a 696.

one of the things to check though would be the angle of the swingarm. the 1100 sits higher. so the front of the 696 would have to be raised to compensate.

i think thats just the length of the ohlins though.

the 1100 is the hyper engine though right?

the top mount for the shock on both the 696 and 1100 go onto a clevis that bolts to the frame.  The 696 clevis piece has a shorter shoulder on it vs the 1100 clevis.  We have used the 696 clevis on the 1100's to lower them in the rear to match the 696 height. 
The Hyper uses a rear linkage system similar to the SBK series.

good to see someone knows what theyre talking about

thanks [coffee]

oooo oooo so an 1100 clevis would raise the 696? tell me more :D

thank you Raux, missed that!!!!

Yes it would and we have two or three take offs we would be happy to sell...
took about 20 minutes to swap out

where are you located and how much? something i can do on my own, im pretty good with tools, as long as internal combustion isn't in the picture.

We are closed today but if you would like to give Jon in parts a call on Tuesday we will get you set up..  Under $50 for sure..  You need to put a jack under the motor to hold it up while you swap out the clevis.  Here is a picture of the two different ones..  the 1100 one on the right has the larger shoulder..  you can see where and how they bolt up..


(http://ducatiseattle.smugmug.com/photos/671456484_GCDTX-L.jpg)

Can somebody post pictures of clevis and difference in shoulders?

BTW, Dave R is with Ducati Seattle....and he rocks.  [thumbsup]

good to know

also, is the 1100's height soley becuase of the clevis, or is the ohlins shock part of it too? i want all of the 1100 height not some...

We have only installed the 696 clevis on the 1100 (both S a base model) so far and it lowered it comparable to a stock 696.  We have not removed the shocks and measured each individually.   We also slid the fork tubes up in the clamps to match.  On one of the lowered ones we also used Rizoma bar risers and it turned out quite comfortable.  Just feels like a bit less of a reach for the bars. 
 

no idea what i'm looking at.. is it the part that bolt 2 slides into?  i can't tell the difference lol..

Time to take your threadjack to a: another thread or b: PM's.  [thumbsup]

 [roll] Too difficult for you to keep up?

ok i posted a new thread is accessories & mods for raising the ride height of the 696 and answered the questions and added another

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30414.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30414.0)

sorry to get off topic!!  :-X   
How about that new motor in the 796!! 
New cases, more torque, ability to change ride height in rear...
SSS probably will not fit a 696 due to new cases on 796??

LMAO... i think 696 shock mounting point is more the issue.

love the 796 HM though. in fact probably would have bought one of those had they been available at the time of my 696 purchase... oh i know sacrilege.

I didn't notice until now the new monsters don't have progressive rear suspension (the extra links and pivots) - another cost reduction.  Seems the 'tards are almost a more similar replacement for the older monsters from a frame and suspension standpoint.


mitt

sure, but isn't it a completely different bike?

How so?  I would put all 7 bikes (2 tards, 2 new monsters, and 3 old monsters) into the same bucket.

mitt

It sounds like your saying, these are crotch rockets (superbikes) these aren't (everything else)

the new monsters suspension is progressive from the geometry not the spring rates.

Good suspension... bad suspension...  I can't get past owning a bike being tagged as a "minitard".
Hell, might as well just call it a "weetard"  [laugh]

 

Without a 4 bar linkage, they aren't progressive like a super bike or older monster suspension. 

Can you explain the differences and advantages disadvantages between the linked, progressive systems, and what the newer monsters have (would that be "direct"?) ?


This interests me.

It's "Wee Tar Did".  [laugh]

I am not an expert on them, but it deals with the fact that the more the wheel travels, the faster the shock compresses, so that a big bump gets a different spring and damper rate.  The traditional geometry like new monsters, old supersports, and sport classics you can't change the rate drastically since the geometry doesn't change a lot.

from a google search, here is a good visual of one 4 bar design (I think a honda design that they "stole" from ducati just before the 999 bikes came out):

---

http://www.atnet.it/lista/casuni.htm (http://www.atnet.it/lista/casuni.htm)

Lever Ratio (or suspension ratio): the incremental ratio of the Wheel Travel divided by the incremental ratio of the Shock Travel; so that it expresses the increase of the wheel displacement, respect to the increase of the Shock absorber stroke

---

mitt

Yeah, that's it. I'm an idiot for asking guys to keep a Hyper thread about Hypers.

I usually don't care if threads take a slight detour but this 696 suspension tangent deserves it's own thread.

Well thank you for that.  :D

the angle that the new monster shock is mounted helps as the angle of the shock to the moving swingarm does change. therefore changing the geometry.
 
the sportclassic are almost in line with the arc of the suspension travel therefore continuous rate.

Disregard!!  once again I got sucked in by Raux  8)  I will most this responde somewhere else..  [drink]

If you read, we are comparing the tard suspension versus 696/1100 versus old M1000/s4r suspension, not talking just about 696 suspension. 

mitt

I said the new monster changes a little.  A 4 bar sbk suspension changes drastically.  Time for some CAD layouts and graphs...

mitt

i love graphs!

AND charts!

see http://www.jamphat.com/rap/ (http://www.jamphat.com/rap/)

I don't have a .mpg of the motions, but here are the charts and models:

http://sites.google.com/site/mittelstadtc/Home/engineering/motorcycle-rear-suspension (http://sites.google.com/site/mittelstadtc/Home/engineering/motorcycle-rear-suspension)

mitt

Wow. that's very cool to see. Especially after having taken the ol' kinematics and dynamic machines class in college.

BTW, my Hyper was $10,400 because the dealer sold it as a demo bike because it had 30 miles on it!

thought we were comparing HM to M suspensions? i'll see if i can get you some measurements for the swingarm and shock today.

HM is next, I ran out of time  ;D ...  I think the HM is similar to older monsters, with the pivot up under the seat?

Most of my measurements are eye ball, so they might not be exact, just showing trends.

mitt

Yeah, that's how my M900 is - the "hooped generation" - same as the 888 suspension it appears from a cursory glance. Frame is near identical. Near.

Well Im very interested in this. 2 reasons. My 750 is too small a bike for me. Especially with the Corbin seat. The 796 make more power than the 750 and its under 1000cc's so insurance is supposed to give you  break on that.

I think its the new monster. Except for that headlight. But yea, send the N/A suspension to race tech, or maybe put some Showas on the front and call it good.

huh. it's not the new monster with a different headlight. it's the old HM with the new 696 monster motor bumped to 803 cc.

I say it's the new monster. Being that it might replace my 750

oh... yeah got it.

That's right.

It's a rocker arm with the shock hooked to one end and the linkage hooked to the other end.

The pivot is between the two on the rocker arm and is located up under the seat.

http://sites.google.com/site/mittelstadtc/Home/engineering/motorcycle-rear-suspension (http://sites.google.com/site/mittelstadtc/Home/engineering/motorcycle-rear-suspension)

I want to model the sedici next  [evil]

mitt

crap i owe you measurements.

I added .mpg movies just now

MOVIES! Very helpful for looking and thinking.

Well put the new 696 with the slider crank in the same category as the recent supersports, I believe. As I'm getting ready to construct one, and am looking at the parts, I noticed how simple the suspension is. Or appears to be.

As I gather, swingarm pivots on motor. Shock mounted to brace on top of swingarm. Shock mounted to cross member of frame next to vertical cylinder. (Wonder if the 696 shock is on the same side and if that swingarm would work?)

Here is a review of the 796 HM:
http://motorcycles.about.com/od/ducati/fr/2010_ducati_hypermotard_796_review.htm (http://motorcycles.about.com/od/ducati/fr/2010_ducati_hypermotard_796_review.htm)

I guess he liked it.  "The Bottom Line: More Fun Than the Big Motor Hypermotard and Cheaper, Too!"

Good write up. CA Cycleworks got props.  [thumbsup]

It's an expensive tank. I wonder what it looks like?

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/gallery/?dir=Fuel_tanks%2FHM1100 (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/gallery/?dir=Fuel_tanks%2FHM1100)


http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/docs/184/uncategorized/hypermotard-64-gallon-tank.html (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/docs/184/uncategorized/hypermotard-64-gallon-tank.html)

Now I see where the expense comes in.

(http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/gallery/index.php?displaypic=Fuel_tanks%2FHM1100%2Fpress%2FCycleWorks_080.jpg)

i know, adding those graphics to the ass end of it really makes it a spendy endeavor.

there is some more first ride info w/ links at http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2009/10/first-ride-reports-ducati-hypermotard-796/ (http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2009/10/first-ride-reports-ducati-hypermotard-796/)

and some high res photos at http://www.motoblog.it/galleria/foto-ufficiali-ducati-hypermotard-796-2010 (http://www.motoblog.it/galleria/foto-ufficiali-ducati-hypermotard-796-2010)

"Engine’s great, much punchier than the 696 which is a bit gutless,"   [cheeky]



2010 Ducati Hypermotard 796 official video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIjstie89fA#ws-normal)

yeah that's the same guy who says "Ducati claim it’s not just a bored-out engine, as it’s got higher compression, smaller crankcase, lighter internals."

duh.. it's the same bore. so i'm not taking his gutless comment too seriously. but at the same time of course it has more torque... it has more cc's

He lost me when he described the coffins m/c's as an upgrade. He ends the article admitting he likes the 696 better then an 1100 monster. Sounds like he just likes little bikes.

Having owned some of the bigger bikes (all kind of 1000's) I like my smaller bikes much better. I think my M800 was a much better bike than my s2r1000....just my worthless .02 ;)

I get the "little" or "light" factor. But my 1100 weighs about the same as the stock 796 now anyway. And I have better brakes, suspension, wheels, clutch, and more torque.

The only point of the 796 is cost, which I understand and am on board with. Chris Kelley is probably pretty happy.

It's actually a complete kit with pod filters, new battery cables, etc. Not to mention a replacement warranty, better quality, and last but not least...more range. I hit over 250 miles on one tank.

Nice.

mmmmm 250 miles. ;D

i am not going to even try to imagine what its like to ride for 250 mi without filling up.

i can waste a tank of fuel in little over 115 mi by whacking the throttle open every chance I get.

Introducation at Bologna & onboard footage without the choreography
2010 Ducati Hypermotard 796 onboard in Bologna (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S43gxQ6C0yE#ws-normal)

God I hate that new logo...

mitt

Logo I don't mind. Boring ass music forced me look elsewhere at the 1:05.

Jump in from 4:10-4:55.  :D