I've seen mention if some folks setting closers to ~.000" clearance.
My vertical cyl closers were ~.003" and next shim size puts both at ~0, no binding that I can detect
(I'm using a crank turning tool).
1) any issues setting closers this tight,
2)does changing the closer effect the opener (didn't seem to, I expected it would)
I'm being a bit anal perhaps.
If my closers are "perfect" at zero with no binding I'll call it close enough, other wise I'll sand em down a .0005" or so.
Fun!
Quote from: seevtsaab on September 22, 2009, 12:43:23 PM
I've seen mention if some folks setting closers to ~.000" clearance.
My vertical cyl closers were ~.003" and next shim size puts both at ~0, no binding that I can detect
(I'm using a crank turning tool).
1) any issues setting closers this tight,
2)does changing the closer effect the opener (didn't seem to, I expected it would)
I'm being a bit anal perhaps.
If my closers are "perfect" at zero with no binding I'll call it close enough, other wise I'll sand em down a .0005" or so.
Fun!
To check for binding you need to remove the belts and turn the cam pulleys by hand.
yeah, closers can be as tight as you want as long as they have NO DRAG on the pulley without the belts on. This is very important, if there is some drag, you need to change the shims
+1 to ducpainter's and woody's comments.
In order to check for drag you want to rotate the closer shims at 10 degrees and spin the cam. One you get close you'll see drag at certain points on the shim at its being rotated and not others. Once you eliminate all drag, your at effective "0" on your closers.
OK Lesson learned.
The vertical pulley turns much harder (with my '0' closers) than loose horizontal pulley (belts off).
I was just getting into the swing of doing all this with belts on.
I'm mighty nervous getting the sync hosed up, but think I'm getting the idea, belts on, belts off etc.
Tomorrow AM - sanding closers.
Thanks guys you've saved me.
"sanding"? Something about valve adjustments and sanding doesn't equate in my tiny brain. Unless I'm missing something.
Sanding or lapping the shims to decrease their thickness.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 22, 2009, 02:09:10 PM
To check for binding you need to remove the belts and turn the cam pulleys by hand.
I thought you could also put pressure against the helper spring on the closer and rotate the closing shim on the valve by hand is this method insufficent for checking the binding?
Quote from: csp808 on September 23, 2009, 03:52:52 PM
I thought you could also put pressure against the helper spring on the closer and rotate the closing shim on the valve by hand is this method insufficent for checking the binding?
That really doesn't work IMO.
OK got it.
Opener rockers exhaust & intake both off, +1.
Took several tries but I got it.
It had been written, it has been read, but it had to be seen and felt to understood by me.
Naturally all my closers required similar adjustment, luckily I was able to swap a few.
Now I'm comfortable keeping belts off, I did mark vertical TDC on pulleys but not really needed.
I was fighting working with and keeping belts off.
You (I) really can't feel the binding unless belts & opening rockers are off.
Closing shims off, my little song
(Clip off)
(opener rocker - move)
(opener shim - off)
forceps - on valve stem
closer rocker - down, secure with 8-10mm allen (EEEEEEEEEXCELENT TIP)
collets - out
Allen - out
closer shim - out
Closing shim -on
Allen - in
Collets - on
Allen - out
Forceps - off
With a little pressing on the closer rocker and spinning the cam at various points
Started her right up, except for forgetting horizontal cylinder plug wire, she purrs.
Thanks for the wisdom, thanks for the pointers to Desmo Times manual, it is my bible.
[drink]
Closers at Zero (0.001)makes 2Valve Ducatis run really well,,, but only 2 Valve models not 4 valvers .
My M750 and SS750 both get zero closers set every time now, it really does make the run so much smoother at low revs and pickup quicker.
Quote from: jerryz on September 25, 2009, 04:31:11 AM
Closers at Zero (0.001)makes 2Valve Ducatis run really well,,, but only 2 Valve models not 4 valvers .
My M750 and SS750 both get zero closers set every time now, it really does make the run so much smoother at low revs and pickup quicker.
Interesting you say that.
my valves weren't all that far out, closers ~.003 - .004 iirc, but it really did feel slightly more 'lively' (i feel like my duc has been running really well anyway) - thought it might be my desperation to ride.
QuoteI thought you could also put pressure against the helper spring on the closer and rotate the closing shim on the valve by hand is this method insufficent for checking the binding?
No.
You should rotate shims when just rotating cam wheel several turns to check f binding.
You can start w your method to reckon a problem.
I went back and double checked my work and i didnt feel any drag when rotating the cam aside from the helper springs. I hope i didnt screw anything up its been about 800 miles since i did my valves so either i got lucky or my closer machined a new base circle on my closing lobe [evil]
Quote from: csp808 on September 28, 2009, 05:48:19 PM
I went back and double checked my work and i didnt feel any drag when rotating the cam aside from the helper springs. I hope i didnt screw anything up its been about 800 miles since i did my valves so either i got lucky or my closer machined a new base circle on my closing lobe [evil]
As stated above, you need to keep
both the opener rockers slid off the shim stack,
(valve stem) and the cam should spin freely. Just don't axe me why this is so - I hadn't thought about it - I was just so happy to discover that. You can then detect the slightest binding, and rotating the shim can make a difference if it's not flat.