Ducati Monster Forum

I'm excited about getting my first bike, something I've always dreamed of: a Ducati.

A local dealer has a 1994 Monster 900 for sale, with 30,000 km on it. It's an import, there's no service log (which I'm told is quite common for bikes) so no one knows if it's had the 20k timing belt change...

I've checked it out and it seems fine - the paint's in good shape, and it has what is described by the dealer as 'the usual corrosion and weathering' you'd expect for a 15 year old bike.  It rides like a dream, immediately comfortable, shifts well, brakes hard, sounds like my most delightful dreams.

I'm taking it to Ducati Brisbane for an inspection tomorrow, if all goes well.  Book value is apparently $7200, this one's up for $6990.  Apparently that's the high end, but...  well, what the hell do I know about bikes, eh?  If the Ducati checkup reveals it to be as nice as I'm told it is, it seems like a good entry into Ducativille.

Rather find out before spending the money that I'm making a bad call, so if any of the above seems silly to you guys, please let me know.  Otherwise, I'll be a member of your little club soon.  =)

Does seem a tad expensive for that vintage, I'd be attempting to beat 'em down a whack.  [evil]

The old 750/900 carbed bikes are a nice unit with a character of their own.  [thumbsup]

If you end up getting the beast, the first thing I'd be doing is getting a service, including belts and valve clearances so you are starting with known quantities as far as these things are concerned. [thumbsup] [moto]

Cheers and hope to see you here in the future, introduce yerself on the new member thread.  [clap] ;D

It is not common for ducati owners not to keep a service log.  I would expect that story with imports though.

Compare price/bike with ones for sale on http://www.bikesales.com.au/all-bikes/search.aspx (http://www.bikesales.com.au/all-bikes/search.aspx).   You may be able to get a local pre loved one for the same price then you would at least have some history of the bike.

Failing that do what dragon suggests and get it serviced asap so no surprises.   Use the servicing costs as a bargaining point to talk the dealer down.

Welcome to the Monster forum and Monster ownership  [moto]

Based on the things I've read on this and other forums, Brisbane Ducati is very reasonably priced when it comes to service.  It's all I can do to sit without vibrating off my chair till tomorrow when they can get me in to go over the bike.  Until they do, I don't really have much solid info, but my thinking is I'll get a full service and ask the dealer to knock that amount off the price.  That'll get me some peace of mind and a price that is certainly closer to a decent level.

Then a decent jacket and gloves, and no one will see me for the rest of the week.  Except when I'm stopping for food and petrol, of course.  =)

As for bikesales...  This bike does compare to others, it's a 1994 for $7k, there are two others: a 1995 for $8k, and 1997 for $8.5k.  My guess is they're all just priced to book value.

No other way to go really.

I don't have much idea of the value of used Monsters ... probably because I don't want to know how little my baby is 'worth'. But a dealer offering up a bike with no service history for close to the reported book value just shits me. I mean, if you don't know the history can't you at least have it properly serviced before putting it on the market?

S'pose it could be worse ... they could have said it is all sweet without actually having any idea.

EDIT: Typing while you posted NFG ... seems that is the path you are taking.

It's worth pointing out I suppose that the dealer has sold my father two bikes already, and has never been anything less than perfect to deal with.  They're a the top-rated dealer in Australia for their marque too.  I am inclined to trust them when they say it was taken in trade for sale by them rather than dumped on a wholesaler because they believed it to be a good example of the year, in good condition with relatively few klicks on it.

The peace of mind I can buy from the Ducati mechanics is priceless though, really.  The seller knows bikes, the Ducati shop knows Ducati (one presumes, heh).  Fingers are crossed.  

If I do get the bike tomorrow, I wll be making that introduction post.   :)

Who are you trying to convince  [cheeky] Sounds like you don't need any convincing and you don't need to convince any of us .

Sounds like it's already a done deal.  Reminds me of myself 3 years ago when I was justifying purchasing my Monster.  [laugh] [laugh] 

If it feels right then you should do it.  [thumbsup]

I have a 93, 85000k's on it now.   Bought it new, ...  a while ago!  [roll]

get them to check the head studs, If they are the still stainless type they will need changing at some stage. 
I had mine let me down on both cyls at different times, they need to be replaced with the steel ones.
apart from that, its just the usual stuff you have to look out for...

Thanks for that tip, monsta. 

Sadly, it being my first bike, I don't know the 'usual stuff'.  I've ridden pedal-bikes all my life, on the street and down the mountains in Canada.  I'm good with maintenance, bike-smarts, safety gear and all that, but...  Well, this bike is bigger and heavier than any I've owned.  It's about 90% new to me, and (OMG) it has a motor!

So yeah, I've got no experience to rely on when it comes to evaluating a used motorbike.  I'd probably be a lot less nervous if I did.  =)

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html (http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html)

dont clean your chain with your fingers  ;D

Bahaha, solid advice indeed.  =D

Monsta: Great link, thanks.  Much of what's in there is stuff I think I'd have noticed, but there's a few things I wouldn't have thought of.

BIKE GET!!!

I talked them down quite a bit, and am happy with the price.  The savings will cover the 10k service (which I'll be doing after I get a few weeks of riding in, and learn what's in need of adjustment).

Interestingly, the speedo died 7.2km after I paid for the bike, no doubt this is a fine introduction to Ducati ownership.  =D

(Anyone know what I should do to try and fix it?)

take that bad boy RIGHT BACK!!!!!

they really are very reliable, don't think cause you're buying Italian that suddenly you can expect them to fall apart...you should expect it to be reliable!

I'm not too worried about it.  The dealer's going to fix it if I can't sort it out on my own quick n easy.  Rather do it myself than drag it back across town, ya know?

And I'm not worried about Italian.  Everyone tells me I can expect the electrics to always be trouble, but I drive French cars.  Everyone warned me off those too.  =)

the speedo will just be a cable. Pretty easy job...  I've done it twice to the monster over the years.

That's kind of what I figured, monsta.  I've had similar things break, and really - on a 16 year old bike - I expect these sorts of minor faults.  If the dealer pays for parts, I don't think I'd have a hard time doing the work.  I'll have a look at it tomorrow in the daylight, pull the cable out (any guides for this?) and see what's in there.

EDIT:  DucatiSuite (http://www.ducatisuite.com/speedocable.html) to the rescue.  Looks easy, should be able to diagnose the problem in the morning.

Make sure the cable has a nice round arc from where it attaches to the speedo drive, if its too sharp an angle it'll chew cables up purdy quick. [roll]

Easy to bend 'em when the wheel getsa tightened.  [thumbsup]

Know of a car mechanic in Albury who put himself through the Pegueot training to become an authorised mech....worst money he spent....the little bastards don't break down apparently!

There are 2 blokes at work who might debate that point!!  [roll]

One has an old 305 I think, and a new 306, and they break down fairly regularly. The new one has had to be towed back to the dealer when it karked it twice this year......so far.  >:(
Maybe he should move to Melbourne, plenty of work for Pug mechs down here. ;D  [thumbsup]  [cheeky]  [clap]

"Phuggin'  French Shitbox" is a term often heard at knock off time.  [laugh]

I've been driving French cars my whole life, always Renault.  From the earliest Le Car (A 1.4l hatch with hardened windows that'd explode on occasion when the body flexed) to the Alliance GTA (.89g!) to a RenaultSport Megane 225 (current car) they've never really failed me.  They require attention be paid to maintenance of course - don't ignore that thumping sound, idiot - but keep on top of things and they'll run forever.

Thing is, once you fall in love with a Renault you can't drive a Ford or Hyundai or Toyota without wanting to cry a little.  =)

Changing gears, here are three things I learned about the Ducati today:

1. It's harder to start in the morning, and I think the battery might be weak: the starter kind of engages, waits a moment, then kicks over.  A world of difference to the car: insert card, push "start" button.  =)

2. When going fast downhill, I need to be aware that things approach quickly indeed.  Nearly missed the turn for my office driveway, and managed to lock the back wheel for a fraction of a second.  Lesson learned. 

3. When shifting, there's a OOH/horn/some-kinda sound that I didn't notice yesterday.  Still cold, or indicative of something else?  Dunno.  Will watch that.

1. Yes they are hard starting, but check the connection at the starter motor, maybe take it off and clean the contact. The boot gets water in it and it has nowhere to drain.I drilled a small hole in the bottom of the boot for it to drain.

2. Your not using to much back brake are you? 
Dunno how much riding experience you have, but I remember when I first got the monster I went through a set of rear brake pads in no time, and there were lots of lockups. I was told to use the front more, and I've never replaced the back since(except when the pin fell out and I lost the pads!) I could gladly unbolt the back brack now and piss it off.

3.  Clutch maybe?
has it got an open clutch cover?  the cover deadens the sound fairly well if its standard, and you maybe hearing the 'ducati clutch groan'

1. I don't think it's the connection, it really seems like a weak battery.  It turns over until it meets compression resistance, then stops for a quarter second before getting past it and ticking over again.  Not worried...  yet. 

2. Basically no riding experience.  Or at least, tons of pushbike experience but it's not exactly the same experience.  Riding is easy, but I was out practicing today and more than once had trouble shifting/braking/signalling in quick succession.  Taking it slow, taking it easy, and practicing.  Not keen to push that envelope.

3. Yeah, I think it's the clutch groan.  I'm getting better with the shifting thing, I reckon I'll have it more or less nailed by the weekend.  It's good fun, I haven't felt this pathetic since I was 16 and learning to drive for the first time.  =D

Umm where did you get your (moto)bike licence from exactly?  :P  ;D

Yes taking it slow is a good idea.  It's not how fast ya can go, it's how long ya can go fast! Something my mentor used to tell me.

I got in on the last Q-Ride class, basically.  Full opens on a couple of hours tutelage.  Signed up for five hours and by the end of the first my instructor was shaking his head, wondering how we were going to spend the next four hours 'cause I'd already worked out more or less everything he needs to teach before the test.  After that, it's just practice.  =)

I'm a cautious driver by nature, and I've got a healthy fear of things that can spread me 'round the asphalt, so I think I'm in a good place when it comes to riding the Monster.  Still, it's all new territory and great fun for it. 

It's all I ask out of life - new challenges and the roar of ridiculous machines.

NFG, good thing with taking it easy ... there was a mini-debate on here recently regarding the q-ride system which extended out from policing motorcyclists in qld.

As for a couple of the issues you are experiencing:

Just as monsta said the front brake is your friend ... just be careful of your modulation ... you can't just go grabbing big handfuls of front brake. But care on the front brake also tends to put more emphasis on the rear for a new rider - firstly because the rear is not as strong but also because it is not the 'steering' wheel. Practice is the key and a 'proper' riding course is probably a worthwhile investment. Also be mindful of coming off the rear brake midway through a lock-up ... if the engine is running fast enough and the rear wheel re-gains traction you could be in for an intersting ride.

Without encouraging you into areas you don't want to go yet ... what sort of revs are you holding? The engine braking on a monster if very powerful. If you are overshooting your turn points it might be worth keeping the revs up a bit (lower gear not faster speed) and using the engine to help slow you down ... might make it easier if you are a bit tentative with the front brake.

As with all the above bullshit I don't really know what I am talking about, but could the noise NFG is hearing be intake noise?

Good luck, take it easy and stay safe.

Thanks for that, Betty.

Re: Q-Ride...  Yeah, it's a good idea to require real instruction for bike riders, but the instruction I got was not really sufficient.  I think I took to it quickly, but certainly I think people should get more training before being set free on the wild streets.  I'm glad I made it through before the stricter rules, but I am more glad the rules are tightened for new riders.  It's important, dammit.

You're bang-on about the rear brake.  I think though that one of the main reasons I'm not (yet) using the front brake enough is 'cause it's on the wrong damn side.  All my mountain biking experience is from Canada, and our rear brake's on the right, the front on the left.  I've made the mental connection between rear brake and right foot, but that's left a disconnect for the right lever.  The reflexes haven't yet connected it to the front brake.  I'm not worried about over-using it, I know exactly what happens when you lean on it too hard.  =)

I have no idea what revs I'm doing, there's no tach on the '94.  It's one of the first things I want to add, but I'm torn between making my own and buying one.

I use the engine to slow down a lot.  It's a habit from driving the car, and also I love the sound it makes.  ^_^

I think all the noises are normal. 

The consensus was (I think) that q-ride is neither sufficient or real instruction for a new rider.


Geez you make it sound like you drive a manual car ... didn't know they existed anymore ;). As for the sound ... with stock exhausts I found myself purposefully looking for opportunities for heavy engine braking ... now its a different story.

You bet I drive a manual.  Six gears of turbo bliss.  =D

Engine braking is a good thing and I enjoy it on my 900. Just be careful with it as well. No slipper clutch and nearly every morning as I come down the road and it's still a bit cool, rear wheel always locks up for a fraction of a second. Personally, I'm in the habit of doing that and I miss it when I don't get my 'itty bitty skid' in every time I go up the road, but that being said, it can cause you some concern when you down shift quickly and at speed and your rear starts wagging it's tail.

I would suggest that practicing your hard braking is a good thing. Pick a nice clean, clear of traffic area and work through it.  On this site there are some great threads on riding advice and maybe pick up a book to read(I am loathe to recommend Keith Code's Twist of The Wrist book - hit your head with a hammer instead. Try Sports Riding Techniques - good, well written book.)

Yeah, I need practice with the hard breaking and takeoff.  I have trouble getting it going under pressure on steep hills.  Newbie nerves, I reckon.   <blush>

Gotta find a nice quiet parking lot near here...  I think the industrial area over the hill will suffice. 

Industrial areas (off-peak) can be good just me mindful of all the extra shit that accumulates on the road in such places which may be unkind to your tires ... both punctures and slippery stuff may become a problem.

Had a good time, spent most of an hour roaring up and down a completely empty road.  Hoons had laid down spirals of rubber at one end and it was good cornering practice trying to follow them.  Stopped and started probably fifty or a hundred times, and got into the habit of using the front brake a lot harder. 

As I was leaving I passed a security guard vehicle coming my way, not sure if it was related but maybe an hour of noise was too much for the factories nearby?  =D

Good fun.  ^_^

glad you have a good time bonding with your bike NFG.

Having trouble with the bike starting last night.  I'm pretty sure it's not related, but I was doing a little research and maintenance on the speedo/light cluster, opened it up, cleaned it up, put it back together.

The next time I go to ride it, it doesn't run smoothly anymore.  Stalled at idle once, runs choppy, backfires and lurches at low speed.  I thought perhaps it was out of gas, maybe the fuel light doesn't work, but I filled it (only 11 litres, it holds 18 I think?) and it didn't really sort anything out...  my next thought was 7 litres of water in the tank (!!), as keeping the revs high it seemed alright, went for a 10km ride and it was as smooth as you'd like from a rumbly old bike...  Though still not as smooth as my bad memory and limited experience would expect.

But this morning it's the same thing: backfiring when coasting down a hill, unsteady idle, lurching at low speed.

Since I'm confident nothing in the instrument cluster would have this effect, I'm looking for other ideas. 

Anyone?  =D

Sounds like you have a crook plug!! These carbed models are prone to this, particularly if you run anything else other than bog stock 90 RON fuel. The higher octane stuff fouls the plugs REALLY easy.  [roll]

Also on our old 750, it doesnt like to be warmed on the choke!! It prefers to be started on choke and then warmed on throttle only with the choke released.  [thumbsup] This can also lead to a "dirty" plug. Get a couple of plugs and give it a try??

Idiosyncratic old bag she is. ;D

Aha, that sounds entirely plausible, I was using the choke to warm it up.  And I did put higher octane stuff in it.  Was seeking mostly to avoid ethanol, but I confess that's a reason I thought of after the fact.  <_<

Will check the plugs.  Are there any guides around, re: plug selection?

http://www.ngkspark.com.au/sparkplug_tech.php (http://www.ngkspark.com.au/sparkplug_tech.php)


Check out this link, it'll give you an idea of what you need.  [thumbsup]

Interestingly the sparkplug socket in the underseat toolbox was too small for the plugs... 

Having had a look at it with my father (an old mechanic) he decided it was running too rich, so that's our first thing to check.  Air filter's clean, and covering up the individual air intakes with a hand made no appreciable difference to the way it ran, hence: getting too much gas...

It was as if the choke was still out, but pulling it out made it run quite a bit faster, so that doesn't seem to be the cause.

Will check the plugs as soon as a suitable socket is found. 

The plugs will look fouled like its running too rich. And running the high octane fuel it gives the impression of richness. If when you put the new plugs and correct fuel in, and its still runs rough and carries on at 60-70k in top gear at steady throttle, you might need a pair of needle jets. The Mikuni CV carbs are  notorious for wear on these jets. [thumbsup]

See http://www.factorypro.com/products/jets,needles,emulsion_tubes,pilot_jets.htm (http://www.factorypro.com/products/jets,needles,emulsion_tubes,pilot_jets.htm)

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice.  Even if it's wrong (and I'm not suggesting it is!) it gives me a lot of clues.

Thanks very much.  =D

Your very welcome and I hope it helps steer you in the right direction. [thumbsup] [moto]

OK, yanked the plug.  Seems to be right in line with the 'running rich' theory, according to my old mechanic father.


I found this little helper (http://www.ducatisuite.com/carbadjust2.jpg), and I wonder: should I lean on in and try to adjust this myself?  Would it likely be only the idle that's running rich?  Or is this something that would bring closer the date of my first service?  =D

give your carbys a birthday every one carries on about jets ect but neglect the air jets which are open too the elements and get new needle and seats and dont forget too synchronize them as well , you can build a syncro for less than 40 bucks if you want a fancy one or just use two clear hoses and some water  , fuel octane rate will not cause richness been down road with omc out boards when they started blowing up bazz  

Hey bazz, had a bit of trouble navigating the unpunctuated expanse of your helpful reply, so I'm gonna try and turn your post into something I can understand*.  You let me know if I got this right?  =)


Up to there I think I get you, but this one confounds me:


What does that mean, exactly?

* No offense meant.  =)

UPDATE: Turns out if you leave the tank flipped up for a while it'll start to leak through the (breather?) tube.  One more lesson learned...  =D

I was just searching for something else and found this, relevent to your starting probs...
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=21784.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=21784.0)

 
Just recently purchased this kit for the 750, made a BIG difference! [thumbsup]

If I go this route I'll probably do the wiring myself.  I'm more comfortable doing that than I am giving my CC details to weirdos on the intertubes.  =D

when omc outboards released there there fuel injected out boards they started blow heads off the motor they first blamed owners saying they put the wrong fuel octane in and that caused them too run rich and caused carbon build up and raised the compression so much that they exploded , then the fuel company's got involved as law suites started flying around in the end we leant two things octane does not make engines run rich the only thing thats makes an engine run rich is fuel and air and poor combustion and others are spot on with battery leads on older ducs replace the lot and check evey terminal cheers bazz     

have you had your service done yet? if not, it's better to be safe than sorry! with a lack of experience onboard it would be rather easy to tip off from a hiccup or inadvertant stall.
if you have been told to watch out for the electrics i'm guessing you've been chatting to old timers, ducati have used japanese electrics since about '89.
oh, if you want to get what you pay for in your service without getting ripped off go see bevan at EUROTWINS 3715 5088.
the dealers (in my humble opinion but from extensive experience) are crap here in se qld.

paul.

Thanks for that, Paul.  I might give them a call.

Sure hope their mechanical skills are better than their website skills - their site is utterly and completely broken.  It's so bad I cannot even believe it's an accident, wow.

EDIT: With a little help from dad, I fixed the rough idle and general stutter by adjusting the idle screws as seen here (http://www.ducatisuite.com/carbadjust2.jpg). 

yeah, their website was a new thing but bev was let down by the web designer and it's been left alone since. their forte' is bikes and that they do very well, no fancy publicity or polished websites, just excellent work at a good price.

paul.

That is about the best advice you'll read.  Bevan is awesome.  I even bought one of his shirts after I had my S4RS suspension dialled in, new tyres and some other general maintenance done there (and I NEVER wear shirts promoting companies).

Craig

Went and met Bevan today, and picked up a speedo cable.  Was very happy with everything, from his attitude to the time he took to explain the things he told me.  He's booked solid for a few weeks, but I'll be taking the Monster in for a checkup and service as soon as there's a spot. 

Thanks for the recommend.  =)

Bike wouldn't start this morning.  Hadn't ridden it all weekend, got it out this morning and had to choke-start* it briefly, but then everything went pear shaped.  Massive backfiring, wouldn't idle without my hand on the throttle (see: backfiring).  As soon as I let the throttle go it'd chuff to a halt.  Checked the choke, checked the gas, found a loose hose had come off the oil vapor recovery tank, reattached that to no avail.

Last time I had running problems I just tweaked the idle screws and all was well (Also, I think the choke doesn't release smoothly when pushed back in...)  I'm reasonably sure it's not the idle screws this time, but the wake-the-block backfiring really kind of alarms me.

* It seems I have a one-revolution window to crank the starter and blip the throttle to get it going first thing in the morning.  If I miss this, I have to use the choke. 

Have you drained the carbs and checked for water?

I didn't try that, no.  I'd be surprised if it was water, since I just filled up a few days ago, but it wouldn't be the first time I've had water from the pump...

I've been unable to find any kind of guide or instructions for draining the carbs.  Know any?

My bike is fuel injected, however most carbs will have a (usually brass) plug on the bottom or side of the carby. Hold a glass jar under it when you open it and you will soon see if there's any water in there.

Here is a handy website too...
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Motorcycle-Repair-837/1998-Ducati-Monster-Breaking.htm (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Motorcycle-Repair-837/1998-Ducati-Monster-Breaking.htm)
and I've also found this handy..
http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm.. (http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm..)

Thanks for those links, I will be checking them out.

It's working again!  Learned all kinds of new things.  Drained carbs (well, one of them - the other was kinda hard to reach).  Nought there but gas, yay.  Pulled the plugs, they were wet.  Flooded?  Likely.  Both still sparked, but on the advice of dad I bought new ones and, a few hours later, put the new ones in.  It worked!

Conclusion: It was probably flooded, and needed a long time to clear.  New plugs probably didn't hurt.

Battery was so weak from farting around that I'm really quite surprised it cranked over the last time before starting.  =)

Now, off to ride!

Back riding you say. So what about the online manuals!!!!

He he ;)

On hold for two reasons:
1. Bike works
2. Wrists hurt.

After writing my book <cough>here (http://nfggames.com/neography/pivot/entry.php?id=397&w=nfg_games)</cough> I found I couldn't do prolonged typing, especially combined with bad posture or a crappy keyboard, without long term discomfort in the wrists.  Well, typing 40 pages from the manual without paying attention to my wrists = bad.  Give me a week, I'll get back into it.  =)

Also, learned a lesson: New plugs makes the bike go sooo much better.  Starts in the morning wtihout choke, no trouble.  Very happy about that.  =)

Bike Progress Report #43

After ~25 days wait, my slot at EuroTwins finally came 'round and wouldn't you know it, the day before my appointment I was summoned to Sydney by the boss who needed help for an install.  I phoned Bev @ ET and left a message on the machine, which he didn't get so he called Monday morning asking where I was.

Well, I was in Sydney. 

I asked him if there was any chance he could swing 'round and get the bike 'cause it was only 5-10 minutes down the freeway from his shop, and after a few hours he called and said he could meet my wife there to get it.  She goes home from work, Bev arrives, and the bike wouldn't start.  Battery's totally dead (later turned out it was producing about a Volt and a half, which you electricians will recognize as a tiny bit too low to start a bike.

The next morning he again arranges to meet my wife, this time with a trailer, and he hauls the bike into the shop.  Later that day I get back from Sydney and pop in to see how it's going.  The battery was replaced, he's nearly done tuning the carbs and it'd be ready in a couple of hours.  While there I asked about the clutch, and he popped the cover off to show it to me.  Turns out it was pretty much ready for replacement, the slop in the splines was about 30%.

I had a ton of questions as a new rider, and he answered them all.   A short while later I picked up the bike, with its new battery and clutch plates and general workover (a couple of the valves were a bit off, but not bad) and my new Monster's a whole new bike.  Many many thanks to Bevan for the work he did, and for going way above and beyond, picking up my bike (twice) rather than make me reschedule.

Very much a rewarding transaction for me, and the bike rides like a dream now.

Thanks to you guys for recommending him to me.  I will do the same to anyone who asks.  =)