Ducati Monster Forum

http://www.docsd.com/viewtopic.php?t=5000 (http://www.docsd.com/viewtopic.php?t=5000)



Nice way to put people outta work and hurt two small businesses CARB. >:(

I wonder if these so called street legal kits produce more pollution than other street legal bikes of that style  ???

That sucks , but I guess they were in violation of California's crazy law.

Would have liked to know more about exactly what the Dealers were doing that made them think they made the bikes  " street legal ."

Dolph           >:(

seems there was a glitch in the DMV system that permitted street reg (license plates were issued) for what should be off-highway registrations. the dealer exploited this and sold bikes to customers promoting the fact they woudl receive street reg with license plates

I hope someone organizes the world's biggest tractor pull event in their honor.

Moto Fonza replied in the thread..... Claim that the news article is a total fabrication on the part of CARB, and that a communication failure between CARB and the DMV was the cause of the problem (ie that the DMV was/is responsible for new vehicle registrations: dealers have NO say as to what types of vehicles are road legal).

links with a short blurb are OK...

copying and pasting from other sites will get us in trouble.

Hope the modified modified post is better? Short sharp etc. I agree - previous post was overlong.  [beer]

Guys read the reply from the shop owner before you make a post.  I don't find his comments a stretch at all.  We all know how rediculous certain agencies can be and how some of them refuse to listen but then punish you for their mistake.  I am dealing with one in particular right now and will likely have an on-going court case for the next several years trying to rectify the situation.  I could not imagine having to deal with 2 different agencies and needing them to coordinate together. 

Another case of redundant beaurocracy failing to get anything right, and dragging down the consumer (or in this case, a legitimate business) in the process. Is it really even necessary for CARB to exist? I can think of, say... 49 other states? That seem to do JUST FINE without that garbage.

What's next... SEARS getting sued for selling lawnmowers as "Street Legal" modified go-karts?!

This is total BS - guess its why CA is in so much trouble.

how conveinent...


Did this investigator formerly work at Enron?


forgot to say, looks like i'm sending off an angry letter to Sacramento, again.

Seems like there's an opportunity for legal action against CARB for the press release, since it is outside the scope of the settlement. I'd be pissed if I worked for the company that just shelled out a ton of money, just to then get slammed in the media as well, thus I would be spending all my free time trying to either a) get my money back, or b) get CARB in a pickle themselves.

Seems like they ought to pickup shop and move just over to Nevada and regularly mail postcards of middle fingers to CARB. That's not the very adult thing to do, but I wouldn't blame them. Several boompow manufacturers will not sell their firearms in California period, not even to law enforcement agencies, because of strict prohibitive government regulations about the sales to consumers.

What's that I smell?

Libel Suit?

This is why I will NEVER live in CA. That state is a case study in intrusive, repressive government.

The market will sort CA out. In other words, businesses and jobs will leave, property values will eventually decline, the tax base will shrink, and the government will go bankrupt because of its own incompetence and profligacy. That is, IF the rest of us don't get the privelege of bailing CA out  [roll]

I wonder if CARB has immunity from that as well.

You can cut out the middleman and mail funds directly to me via check or paypal. Please, do not send cash.

Contact info:

"Save the Motos!" C/O MrIncredible
24 Willie Mays Plaza
San Francisco, CA 94107

As a general rule of thumb - I avoid living in CA and FL.  No offense to those who live in and enjoy living in CA and FL. 

And yes, karma will catch up to you like a SOB, eventually.  and you can quote me on that.

Care to elaborate?

Yeah, I'd like to hear more too.

Yeah, it's funny how my company has to rearrange it's email servers so that ALL emails can be saved for a period of years in order to conform with Sarbanes-Oxley, yet the State, itself, doesn't have to conform to such invasive rules.  After all, who would pay for the changes necessary to comply?

no.

Well, than you should probably keep something like that to yourself. You say a dealership stole from you on multiple occassions but you won't say what the situation was? Dealership representatives participate on this forum and may want to address the issue.

Most likely the "serious modifications" were installng a horn or bolting n the mirrors. It is also quite possible that they did NOTHING other than going to the DMV...

Think about who you are dealing with here... the DMV and CARB.. Imagine the people that are too dumb and slow to work at DMV, they go to work at CARB...

Just think.. soon our healthcare gets to be run the same! woo hoo

and BTW, CARB and most government agencies are exempt from defamation suits...

I dont know the details, but i think its bullshit... Did 20 or 30 bikes REALLY make an impact ANYWAYS?

i think we are treading close to the politik line, but the government exemption, though quite expansive, doesn't give them freedom to do whatever, and they would likely still be bound by what was agreed to in the settlement. Going beyond that would be to disregard the settlement's terms. Its really kind of hard to make a call on the play without some more facts than what is reported, but it makes me wonder if the dealerships botched their deal by not stipulating that 'all was said & done upon paying up'.

ok.

Maybe you're missing the point.

If you aren't going to validate your statements, you should either edit or delete the post.

Do you work for CARB too?

Yet the bikes are OK off road in the same state. Same air, same motors with or without kits that are no more than a charcol cannester for the fuel overflow tubes? Sad just sad. CARB blows.
The dealers were charged way more than they ever made or ever will make in profits from selling a Husky. Like drug dealers or cartel from Bolivia.  [leo] [wine] [clap] [beer] [bow_down] [bacon] [evil]
Wonder if KTM had the same problems they have a lot more Dukes on road.

says who?

Oh, I'm sorry. I was thinking it was common courtesy. I forgot that not everyone possesses common sense...

so you claim you were lied to and stolen from (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation), but you only got the impression they were doing "shady business"

hmmm  [coffee]

Damn man, we MUST be brothers from other mothers!!  [laugh]  [laugh]  [popcorn]

Were you by chance born in Nevada, say early '60's?  ;D

Sorry, Arizona, mid '70's...

Winslow?  did your mom drive a flatbed ford? 

son?

Hahahahaha

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/borregokid/Standin_corner.jpg)

Says me.

Your posts are libelous. They also shows a complete lack of common sense and manners.

It's not fair of you to jeopardize this forum by making those types of statements.

Edit or delete your posts...

or it will be done for you with consequences.

(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1433/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1433R-147021.jpg)

I like yer thinkin' but he might be "into" that sort of thing and it may not really be a consequence!  [cheeky]

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/29/Red_button.png/180px-Red_button.png)

Let's bring this back on topic please.

CARB sucks.

you know, those paddles are more efficient if you put holes in 'em, like in woodshop class. so sayeth the dazed and the confused.



Back on to CARB - I'm not sure I understand the point of the regulations if off-road vehicles are not subject to the emissions standard?

Secondly, I do not like that products I might buy in Texas or Tennessee have the CARB sticker on them. I'm ok with a few manufacturers stickers on a product, maybe a few warnings for the idiots, though I think they should all be left in the instruction manual --> But absurd government compliance stickers for something that I'm not subject to, nor care about is silly. I'm not even sure if the stickers are required in California, but rather that the vehicle is compliant.

This vehicle was a Honda 'ski for those who are wondering what I'm talking about.

the belief (rightly so) is that fewer people will buy them if they are off-road only. 

if you have an off-road bike, you need to trailer it to your destination, unless you're riding in your backyard.

if you have an on-road legal dirtbike, you can ride it to your destination and go from there.

angry-old-man letter typed and mailing today.

My hero!   [clap]

On topic:

I really don't want politics to creep into these boards; I come here for Ducati/Moto related escape from all of that.  Yet this topic does hit home doesn't it.

It's stories like this one that lead me to oppose much state and federal intrusion into private matters.  Claiming that "it's good for the environment" or "good for the children" or whatever doesn't change the fact that when overly large bureaucracies really suck and really make living less free and enjoyable, not better.

hmmm..

vague accusations against not one, but two..

asked for details, but refuses to provide any..

invokes Hitler.


yep, all the ingredients for bullshit.

Edit:  Then adds a shoutout to his girlfriend, Ewey.

;D

so? if i dont conform to what you guys want then ban me. ip block me and get it over with. im going to say whats on my mind even if its not the popular opinion.

i don't have an iron in the fire, as i live in the free part of the US, however, if you really have had a bad experience, why are you keeping it to yourself, other than just whining about it ?  give details, explain what happened and what you did to resolve it and why you think it didn't work.  did you even talk to them about it? 

i had a similar situation with a dealer who charged me 15 hours labor for a 3 hour job (replace a sprag on a '76 900ss)  it was for a vintage bike and they rarely if ever worked on them.  after talking to the manager several times, we agreed that the time was overbilled and it was incumbent on them to know the bike rather than tinker and then bill me for it.  charge was changed to 4 hours labor, which was reasonable given other issues.

what did they do and what did you do?  you're one person calling forza a thief -- while it seems the other 99.9999% of people like them a lot, and since no one likes being stolen from, it seems your comments are ..well.. off base, to put it nicely.

man up and say what happened and what you did to fix it.

Look, here's the deal.  This is not about what anyone wanting you to conform.  It's just that Ducpainter is a founder and adminstrator of this forum, and as such he's got a responsibility to keep it on the up and up and to minimize liability.

Your comments regarding the two businesses are perilously close (if not beyond) libelous.  For Ducpainter to let that stand could very well leave the forum liable to legal action and sanctions.

That you apperantly don't grasp that fact makes me wonder in what other areas of intellectual discernment you are to be found lacking.  Areas such as, say, you business dealings with others.

You've accused two businesses of crimes, and while the descriptions of the crimes are vague to non-existant, your accusation is univocal.

The reasonable, adult, and smart thing to do is to remove the comments and keep them to yourself.

Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) holds again.

Hitler has been mentioned, shouldn't we shut down this thread now?

OK, so as you suggested, I did a little digging. Here's what I found.





Seems like you contradict yourself a couple times...

Then you sell it and use "Serviced at GP Motorcycles" as a selling point...

All I'm trying to do is protect this place from unnecessary hassles and you find a need to shake your fist.

You've made your point and received your wish.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll161/porschaholic/threadlock.jpg)

Back on topic:

CARB sux.

That is all.

The idea is that if you had a bad experience, you are expected to describe it so we have knowledge to make a decision for or against the company. The way you've stated it, followed by your demeanor after stating it, show its likely a baseless claim.

You can't go and bad mouth a company without an explanation. It cannot serve its purpose, to inform customers, unless context is provided.

You are saying they STOLE from you. What did they steal? Keep parts they replaced on your bike? Literally removed cool doodads and hope you didn't notice? Sneak over to your house and pilfer your sock drawer for dirty movies?

The thread is about how two bike companies got F*cked over by a government juggernaut, and really less about the businesses individually, though it has drifted there. I can't see how its 'shady', nor will I believe such, without evidence. Hell, I'm not even a potential customer, as I believe they are in SD, and I'm in the Big D. But it sucks to make disparaging remarks about a company, without showing the truth of your statements.

carry on

I received a response from my state rep today from my letter:

Dear Privateer:

Thank you for contacting my office regarding your concern about CARB and it's actions against GP Motorcycles and Moto Forza.  I appreciate you taking the time to write me on issues mattering most to you.

You have pointed out some very disturbing issues with CARB and its actions.  I will have my legislative staff look into this to see if there is anything legislatively that can or needs to be done.  I share your concerns about protecting the environment, but most importantly protecting California businesses.

Once again, thank you for contacting me.  If I may be of further assistance in any state-related matter, please do not hesitate to contact me at either of my offices.  It is an honor to represent you in the State Senate.

Sincerely,

Bob Huff
Senator, 29th Senate District

Wow, they actually read their fan mail!!???

Well done, Privateer.  Hopefully this gets the ball rolling.



CARB (amongst other things) is why I keep telling my wife that we can't move to Cali (even though she really misses San Diego).

Wow. That is really great to receive a response that includes some information that you wrote to him about. (Read: That intern had their cup of coffee that morning)

California is going the same way as UK ....down the tubes to total bankruptcy and social breakdown caused by Stalinist,Nazi ,interfering Politically correct namby pamby lying coniving control freaks .I used to love that place but now its all going to hell.

but the weather is nice

Would love to see the letter, and crib from it for my own letter to my representative.

That's a shame, I've always had good experiences with the guys from GP, that's where I bought my M900 and it's where I go for just about anything Ducati that I need.

I remember GP from my SD days back in the 1980's.  There were a littl hole in the wall place downtown.  They were the type of shop I loved back then and found all over SD: small shop, not a dealership, lots of used bikes for sale, and plenty of bench racing and lie swapping to be had.

maybe ducaholic was right....

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll161/porschaholic/threadlock.jpg)

This place amazes me...

we go from libel to politics in just a few posts. [roll] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

Yeah, I don't like seeing politics on this forum, even if I happen to agree with what I see.  I just don't want that vibe here.  So sorry for any part I've played in that.

It was pretty long, but if you want to reply or PM with your email, I'll forward the .doc to you.

lemme know.
Andy