Ducati Monster Forum

Hey, folks,

I currently ride a 2006 Yamaha R6, and I’m in the process of moving to a more “practical” bike.  In the mountains, the R6 is a dream, but on the days when I commute or go into town, the stiff clutch, short wheelbase and high-strung engine really put a damper on things.

All signs point me toward an SV650, which is a fine bike but it doesn’t get my heart pumping from an aesthetics standpoint.  I actually was leaning toward a Triumph Thruxton until I sat on one and felt the weight (100 pounds more than my R6 + much less power = significant concerns).

So that has me thinking about Ducati Monsters.  My thought is one of the air-cooled Monsters, perhaps the late-90’s 750 or the slightly more recent 800. 

To give you a better sense of what I want in a bike, I enjoy riding the mountain roads in West Virginia and commuting on occasion.  I don’t put a ton of miles on my bike on an annual basis due to my two toddlers at home, but I’ll do a 400 mile ride over the course of a weekend.  I might also hit a track day or two at some point in my life (but haven’t done one yet).  I have no qualms about riding in the elements and once took the R6 through a hailstorm (not by choice).  I’m no squid/power fanatic, so switching to a 750/800 twin (or a 650 twin, in the Suzuki’s case) from the more potent 600 I-4 doesn’t phase me.  I can do a fair amount of my own wrenching such as changing out sprockets, adjusting the chain, etc.—though, I have not adjusted the valves in my bikes (as of yet).

So all that said, could folks please weigh in on the pros and cons of getting a Monster for my purposes?  I’m looking at air-cooled Monsters from the standpoint of simplicity and price.  Also, in the case of the Monster 750/800 line, how is the clutch?  We’re talking DC metro area traffic, so I’d really like a relatively light clutch for stop and go traffic.

Also, how is parts availability for Monsters built during those years (say, 1999-2003)?  When I had a Triumph, I used a place online that got me (rarer) parts within a few days.  Is there something like that for Monsters, or is it a matter of ordering through a dealer and waiting (and waiting)?

Keep in mind that I’d like to have some extra $$ in the bank after selling my current bike and buying a new (to me) bike—hence, my thought of buying a used 750/800 Monster.  So that would probably eliminate the newer 696 and possibly the S2R 800 (from a price standpoint). 

At any rate, if folks could let me know your thoughts about the 750/800 line or some other line of Monster that I should also consider, I’d really appreciate it.

Thank you in advance for your feedback.

HI dctex,

A stiff clutch is really easy to fix by attaching a clutch slave.  This is a relatively inexpensive price (I think) and easy to put on eliminating this problem.

why get a 750/800 when you can get a 900 or 1000.  The air cooled liter twins will still be underpowered compared to your R6 so if you are looking for a naked that is a little slower I wouldn't limit myself to only the lower displacement monsters.

That's all I have to add.  Parts availability isn't hateful but might seem that way compared to a Japanese sport bike.  

+1 go with the 900/1000.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29664.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29664.0)

this could be your next bike ;)

I agree with these guys about going with the Liter 2V. You are coming off of a VERY high tech bike. Everything from motor, clutch, fly by wire throttle & suspension.

With that being said: Without a doubt, the 06 R6 was the worst street bike I have ridden as far as modern (not Chinese garbage) bikes go.   fired up all the time.  My 749 was a gutless wonder, but a blast to ride. It's not about the power in spots,  but the useable power.    

 I'm also not much for non adjustable...(with ease should I say) suspension & little power (stock) of the 2 you are asking about.

Here is the one I owned for three months & put 3.2k on it.  
I can say I sold it for $510 less than I paid for it new.  It's good to know people.   ;D

Good luck with your search!

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd164/dustykitska/PA020029.jpg)

Not trying to threadjack, but if you guys haven't seen the new BMW "Hot Rod", I'll post up pics on another thread.  It looks like this bike with a bigger (different) motor.  Don't they have enough money to build an all new, state of the art bike?  

I guess not.  

I have a '99 750 and love it.  Super simple bike, plenty of power for commute duty and If you don't mind shopping around/used parts are plentiful and cheap.  That said, I'd look for a 900 first as you may likely find one priced very closely to either a 750 or 800.  I prefer the carb bikes to the FI models simply for simplicities sake.

Where are you commuting from/to?  I used to do the daily back and forth along MacArthur Blvd to Canal Road & downtown (on the Monster 600) and it was a fun way to start & end the day.

One thing I REALLY wish I'd done before moving from DC was to switch from the stock 15 tooth to a 14 tooth front sprocket, or increase the rear sprocket size to achieve the same gearing change. The Monsters are generally geared high for emissions reasons, but in stop & go DC traffic you'll spend way too much time in first gear & slipping the clutch with the stock gearing.

If I was still there and in the market, I'd be considering a trip down to NC to take a look at the bike Raux posted above. You might also want to get to know some folks on the CAM  (Capital Area Monsters) list under the Local Club Boards link to the left, as they'll have an inside line on area Monsters for sale.

Hey, thanks for the prompt response, folks.  I thought about the 900/1000 as well.  My initial thought was that I'd trade the extra power for lighter weight (900/1000 versus 750/800).  The best thing about the R6 is being able to "throw" it anywhere in the corners since it's so light (something like 357 pounds dry).  

But now that folks have mentioned the 900/1000 (and now that I've done some more research), there isn't that much of a weight difference, is there?

But in terms of power, on paper, it's a difference of just 16 hp and 7 ft.lbs (if I've read the specs correctly).  Is there really that much of a power difference from a "seat of the pants" standpoint?

from what I gather, the old carby 750 won't be nearly as feisty as the FI 800 (heads/valves/blah blah blah)

I have very few complaints about how my bike scoots... but then, I never was looking for mcbeastly power

well i can comment on this...
i had a carby 900 and a FI 696... the carby was SOOO torquey. gobs of pull in everygear. the 696 just smooth liinear power but not gut wrenching.

the 900 was rated at 74 at the wheel and the 696  80hp at the crank.. i know you can't compare.. but really night and day. if you like power at ALLL RPMs get the 900.

Think of it in terms of percentages. In a bike that is rated under 100hp, even 7-8hp is a 10% gain. I felt an enormous difference in my 695 by adding the Termi system and I think it's only rated to add 7-9hp. Totally different animal. As to the weight differences, you won't really see any BIG differences until you go up to a liquid cooled S4R model. All the air cooled bikes are in the same ball park.

don't most of the 750s and 800s come equipped with wet clutches as well?  Those typically have an easier clutch pull than the dry-clutch-equipped 900s and 1000s...

I sold my 06 R6 Raven and bought my 07 S2R 1000 for the same price and never looked back [moto]

I'm new to Ducati's but FWIW bought a 2003 800 a month ago and love it, plenty of power for my riding and waaaay more exciting than the Thruxton I test rode first.  The clutch is indeed heavy but after 1000 miles it doesn't bother me anymore, my hand strength must have improved  ;) .....also +1 on the 14t sprocket, made a huge improvement, prior to installing it had to downshift to 1st too often on really tight mountain roads and 6th was rarely usable.

750/800 is only about 15 lbs lighter than a 900...not sure on the 1K.

You need to be careful trying to translate hp/torque numbers from older to newer models.

The 750 and 900 were rear wheel (real world) numbers. The 800/1K are crank numbers.

Yes...you will absolutely feel the difference on the larger bore bikes.

I'm a '99 M750 owner.  It has some very nice things about it.  The motor seems to pull from low down to the redline very smoothly.  I really enjoy riding it in the twisties.  I live in the Smokey Mountains, so I am surrounded by ample twisty roads.  I also have a 900SS, same basic motor as an M900.  The FI 900 compared to the carbed 750 is a night and day difference. The 900 is super responsive and has gobs of torque everywhere.  It's not as smooth across the revs as my 750 is though.  On the *really* tight roads, I'm more at home on the 750, but the 900 still plays very nicely.  You might really want to check out a Monster 900.

JM

All right.  I'll add the 900 to my list.  [thumbsup]

So going back to the clutch question -- is there much difference in clutch stiffness between the wet clutch of the 750 and the dry clutch of the 900?

I've been reading here (and on other websites) that the reliability of the 750/900 is relatively good (another reason why I'm looking at them)--especially given the simplicity of the engines.  Any nagging issues with either model that y'all have come across?

Thanks again, folks.

P.S. - Is the turn radius of the 750/900 as bad as I've read for slow turns (e.g., U-turns)?  I can't imagine that it would be any worse than a sportbike with clip-ons (and it's not that big of a deal in the end), but I was just curious. 

Most Ducs require a 6 point (or more) turn. [laugh]

There isn't much difference in the lever stiffness between the wet and dry clutches except for the APTC wet clutch which is easier by far. I believe that was available on the S2R but not the M800. I could be wrong about that.

the new monsters can turn great... except when a guardrail gets in the way.

but the clutch issues can be solved with new slave cylinders (i personally haven't done it)

with my old 900... and i'm a weak dude  :-[ i had no problem.

You should be fine for a U-turn but doing a very tight pattern as for a riding test might be a little more challenging.

Thankfully, the days of the DMV riding test are well behind me.   [moto]

After having low-set clip-ons (standard) on my past three bikes, I figured that the Monsters couldn't possibly be worse than them in terms of tight, low-speed turns.

Just out of curiosity since it's in the mix, have folks had experience on the SV650, as well as with their 750/900 Monsters?  If so, what was your take re: both bikes and how they felt/rode?

And a minor question - the Monsters' metal gas tank covers went to plastic when?  2003?

Thanks, folks!

iirc, the S*R bikes all have them (plastic).

normal monsters were through 2005

They're not covers.  They're actually the tank.  Only the new 696 and 1100 have tank covers.  

IIRC, '04 (mebbe '05?) was the switch for the plastic tanks.  IT's not that easy though.  For example, some of the '04 620s had either plastic or metal tanks depending on when they were actually built.  The s2r (800) tanks were all plastic IIRC.  The 750 tanks are all metal.

the 620's changed during '05... mine's an early '05 with steel tank

a buddy of mine has a SV650 ..we have traded quite a bit ...the zuki is well boring ...nice enough to ride but no ...soul ...its got a little less seat of the pants power not as much torque it carves better than the Duc .....it also feels small

funny thing is he feels about the same ...but is always saying about  Ducati  price on repairs ..he's the type that takes it to the dealer for a oil change

its funny i looked at the Thruxton as well when i got my s2r so close either way ...sure glad i went Duc ..you won't regret it


with an R6 ( now ) you will always regret the sv650 

My first bike was a first gen SV650s then R6 now S2R, the sv riding position is pretty similar to the monster both a lot more upright than the R6.  Going from the R6 to a sv will be a disappointment in power and handling and you will definitely wish you wouldn't have, maybe the newer 1000 is better but I haven't ridden one.  Bottom line is buy the bike that moves you.

2002 750(fi), ridden my friends 99 750 (carb) a lot too.

loooove them

WANT a 1k(or 900) monster. if you have the funds, just get the 1k bike, youll want one before long  [evil]

Same motor for the same year --> 99 M900 = 99 900SS, as far as my research has shown me. Same displacement, same cams (except for W head 900's, for shame!), Same flywheel, same everything.


Bulletproof. The Chevy 350 of Duc Engines. Easy as pie to work on. I love my M900, and I plan on getting a 900SS to add to the stable.

When I was looking for my first bike, I was thinking about an SV650 after reading reviews, getting advice from people, ect. I tested a couple and then I tried a Monster. I didn't buy the first Monster I looked at, it had some issues. But I decided that I wouldn't be happy with an SV and would be wishing I got a Monster the whole time. I did test one more SV after that and then got my 97 M750 the next day.

I had an 03 M800 (new) and it was a lemon. I rode the make the beast with two backs out of it for 18k miles but I had major issues. Bad ECU, bad gauges, bad oil cooler, and it dropped a valve into the piston. Loved it before and after the fixes tho.

The M800 is a nice intro motor when it works accordingly.

Gadzooks, that's a true lemon, and not indicative of the bike.

OP, you should see Kopfjager's "800" heheh

People better be sittin' down when he does post it.  [evil]

Thanks for the post.  What was it that made you decide to choose the Monster over the SV?  Looks?  Handling?  Motor?  How does the M750 feel power-wise compared to the SV (and power-wise in general)?  With several folks suggesting the M900 (over the M750), I'm having a hard time deciding whether I should keep the M750 on my list.  Thoughts?

with your bike experieince with a japanese 4... the 900 is a better fit for you.

I've only ridden two SVs and I suspect my experiences were outliers, but both felt extremely vague & unnerving in turns. Both were test rides for a friend who was looking at used ones for a first bike.

Turn-in on both of them was abrupt -- not crisp like a well-sorted sportbike, but more like countersteer, countersteer, c'mon, TURN dammit, counterst... WHOA!!! Then keeping the bike on line in a turn demanded way too much attention that would be better paid up the road. It was a significant contrast to the nuthin' fancy Monster 600 Dark I was used to at the time (and a different planet than the ST2 I'm now riding with a sorted suspension, but that's another story) -- even with the base, non-adjustable suspension twisties are a real pleasure -- set a good entry speed, countersteer, look through the turn, twist the throttle out. Smile a bit and get set up for the next curve -- no drama, just control.

Like I said, I strongly suspect something was wrong with both of the SVs I rode, because I know they make very fine track bikes on a budget, so if one pops up on Craigslist or elsewhere and you get a chance to ride it, don't pass it up.

As for the M900 vs. the M750, it probably depends on how long you're willing to wait, how far you're willing to travel and (of course) how much you're willing to pay for the right bike. I was shopping for similar bikes in the DC market for a few months, and while there are usually a few Ducs of various sorts for sale in & around the Beltway at any given time, you may end up waiting a while if you've got your sights fixed on a particular model. While I would agree that the 900 likely would be a better fit, ride a 750 if one comes available and see what you think.

I don't think there is much difference in power between the 800 and the 900. In fact I read somewhere that the 800 motor was actually slightly more powerful. I would not be surprised if the 696 is in the same ball park power-wise as the 800/900.
My 800 has been almost without flaws (40K+ later). I did have to fix/replace the steel tank because it wept gas from a faulty weld. It has been a great bike for me. Still have it although it doesn't get ridden much because of the Speed Triple I bought. [bow_down]

http://www.bikeboy.org/800monster.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/800monster.html)


http://www.bikeboy.org/comp2vmodels.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/comp2vmodels.html)

The handling was the biggest reason why I chose the monster, the way it felt when I say on it was another reason. The SV was ok, but just ok. If you have the chance to do so, test out both.

Probably tires that had been worn flat in the middle.

great links

thanks

I'll second this comment.  I've had excellent service from my 750, and it's got 33,000 miles on it.  My 900SS seems the same way, but I'm only had it a few months and only tossed a couple thousand miles on the odometer.  The 750 has lived a rough by well maintained life ~

JM

I had a '92 750SS (carbureted, 5-speed, wet clutch, stock dynoed at 57 rwhp) that I converted to an upright roadster and then into a CCS lightweight racer (41mm Flatside CR's, race exhaust, ported and polished heads, performance chip, hi-comp pistons dynoed at 74hp).  Old style cylinder heads.

I currently have 2 6-speed F.I. 800SS Moto_ST racebikes (2003 and 2005); have ridden them both with oem wet clutches and with DucPond's dry clutch conversion. They make just under 72hp with the Ducati performance chip and race exhaust systems; stock otherwise.  Modern cylinder heads.

I also have a 2000 750SSie (injected, 5-speed, wet clutch) that is stock motor-wise but has all 1000SS suspension and brakes.  Haven't dynoed this one, but would guess that it is actually LESS than 57hp.  Old style cylinder heads.

I also have a 347 pound 1000SS track bike (6-speed, f.i.) that makes 87 rwhp.  Modern cylinder heads.

I sold my 2003 620SS (f.i., 5-speed) that had the modern cylinder heads and fuel injection and felt STRONGER on the track and on the street than my current 2000 750SSie.

My advice is to get a 6-speed, modern cylinder head model, and select the 695, 800 or 1000 based on your particular preferences for power and styling.   I would not recommend any 900 - the 800 is, imo, a better bike in every respect.  I would not recommend the dry clutch unless you - like many others - LIKE the jangle and noise of the clutch and don't mind that it is bother grabbier and more finicky than a wet clutch.   If I could convert my 1000SS to a wet clutch (from the oem dry clutch) I would.  I would never have converted my 800's to dry clutches if we hadn't needed to for endurance racing needs.

The dual spark 1000 (and 1100) 2v engines, fuel injected, with the modern cylinder heads, are REMARKABLE motors, and an absolute JOY to ride.  The difference between the 800 and the 1000 is not so much power (if you can ride, you can keep up with anyone on the street on the 800) as it is bottom end torque.  The 1000 is noticeably torquier than the 800 from the get-go.   As people have described the differences between the 750 and 900, so is the difference between the 800 and the 1000.  In terms of "revability" and perceived lightness, the 800 is hard to beat.  It is just a sweet, sweet, engine.

Good luck with your choice; maybe we'll meet one day.  I'm in Herndon, VA.

Tim

^^^ We need some pics of these bikes.  [thumbsup]

yes we do.

All right.  Still patiently searching.  Starting to narrow my choices to the S2R 800 and the 695 since it appears that with patience, both models might fall within my price range (I already blew it on a couple of S2R's that literally were steals). 

So is the power (torque) difference between the 695 and S2R 800 that noticeable?

I never got the chance to take my brothers S2r800 for a ride. I would recommend sitting on each of them though. The S2R feels bigger from the seat. It does sit taller, they also have the single sided swing arm and a prettier face on the gauges. Either of these bikes will make a fun little scoot, it's a matter of personal preferrence. I like the old swing arm, and low exhaust, so the 695 works for me.

I'm coming from the SS side of the Ducati club.  I started with a 2005 SS800 and loved it as my first Ducati and actually first motorcyle (at age 55).  It was a great choice for me.  Last year I upgraded to a 2006 SS100DS and haven't looked back.  Note that it wasn't about the engine.  It was really about the suspension.  It has Showa fully adjustable forks along with an Ohlins shock.  It also has a dry clutch and upgraded clip ons.  All in all minor upgrades in many areas that combine to be a much superior motorcyle.  The monsters are the same.  I think the 800 would be great as far as horsepower and torque (comparable to the old 900s) especially over the 750 (along with fuel injection).  But the other upgrades as far as suspension in the 1000s and even the 900s will be worth it.  You won't regret it.

PS - My girlfriend had a M620D and it was great fun to ride.  It sat a bit lower and didn't have great suspension but you could twist it all the time.  I personally would love to have one of the early 1000s with the dual sided swing arm and the old exhaust with mufflers on each side.  The 1000DS is a great engine.  Of course if you want something newer the 696 I think would have adequate power w/o the suspension and the new 1100 would be awesome.