Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Ducatl on October 05, 2009, 02:48:18 PM

Title: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 05, 2009, 02:48:18 PM
My question is this... I'm swapping gauges and therefore ditching the dummy lights on the stock guages, does the oil pressure sensor switch located just above the oil fill cap serve any purpose other than to illuminate the oil light on the stock gauges? I think I've seen people running without them before...

Alternatively does anyone think oil temp. can be accurately picked up from either the pressure switch location or the oil fill plug location?  I know the Motodetail unit uses the fill plug and I haven't read of any complaints...

Before I measure myself...does anyone know the thread size/pitch of the oil fill and/or drain plug?
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Slide Panda on October 06, 2009, 06:59:59 AM
The pressure switch is a single purpose item. It just lets you know if the pressure dips below the specified min (can't remember it off hand).

Until the immobilizer dashes came in, monsters did not have temp guages. Save for the addition of some computer gizmos the 2v engines have changed very little over the years... so you can probably do without - though someone like DucStew or SpeedDog might have more technical insights.

As far as position - the ideal place to take the temp would be to have the sensor immersed in the fluid you're trying to measure. But, having something on the case around the filler would probably work pretty well 9for an accurate notion of the temp) once the overall engine temp evened out.  Obviously the oil and the case are going to be about the same temp most of the time since they are constantly in contact.

No notion as to the pitch of those threads... sorry
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 08:12:57 AM
The oil pressure switch is 'closed' until the pressure exceeds a certain value.
The last one I checked tripped at 6 psi.

The temp sensor location on the '02 and later ducs is really good, it's at the oil pickup screen, so it's always immersed in the oil that is being delivered to the motor.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: numbskull on October 06, 2009, 09:00:43 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 08:12:57 AM

The temp sensor location on the '02 and later ducs is really good, it's at the oil pickup screen, so it's always immersed in the oil that is being delivered to the motor.

This is far more accurate than the Motodetail oil-fill plug/thermometer. I have one and the temperature is always several degrees cooler than the stock readout on the dash. Although, it does look cool and is sturdier than the stock plastic plug.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 09:45:08 AM
Good to know,

What I've learned so far...

The stock oil screen bolt on older at least pre '00(meaning '99 and down) 750 monsters is a single unit that appears to have some special machining on it and is without a threaded pickup pre-machined into it.  If you wanted to go this route you'd need to drill and tap the factory bolt.

The oil drain plug looks like it may work but I've yet to get it out and measure it, I'd rather not have the sensor under the bike and complicating the drain plug but it may be the most feasible option...I'll report back with bolt measurements.

The oil pressure switch theaded portion is actually rather tiny...but the sensor is only an m6x1.0, once I measure the switch I'll let you know what it turns out to be.

I don't think I'm gonna use the fill plug simply because it has that weird machining for the o-ring and I don't want to risk it leaking.

Anyways, More soon.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 09:48:01 AM
Oil pressure switch is an M10x1.0 thread.

Drainplug location would be a poor choice, as the drainplug has a magnet, which you need to assess the health of your motor at oil changes.

Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 11:07:03 AM
Yeah, I thought of the magnet issue as well.  The other problem is that the plug itself is physically huge.

So here's what I've come up with.

Like Speeddog mentioned the pressure switch is an m10x1.0

The fill and drain plugs both seem to be m22x1.5

I checked out my local spot for adapters and came up with nothing, I'm gonna check online suppliers as well but at this point I think the simplest and cleanest method may actually be drilling and tapping the screen bolt...
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 11:10:46 AM
Which engine do you have?
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 11:45:25 AM
it's a carbed 750 from '99.

I think I may have been looking at an odd bike but I'm guessing now that the temp sensor slides in from the m12x1.0 bolt spot that's right under the screen bolt?

either way...m12x1.0 is not gonna be easy to find
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 12:04:58 PM
You have the 'old style' screen.

New style has a 'cover' which has the sensor screwed into it.
Screen is seperate, underneath the cover.

Don't mess with that other screw.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 12:09:01 PM
Right, that figures.

I originally thought the sensor was screwed into the cover/bolt itself.  Anyways, that rules out the other screw I suppose.

Back to where I started.


Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 12:29:30 PM
So, my options are now...

Buy an m10x1.0 bolt(not too hard to find) and try to drill and tap it for an m6x1.0 sensor

Try to drill and tap the older style screen bolt...is this even feasible? the bolt head and brass piece are somehow connected, anyone know how?

Locate a newer screen and hope it fits in the old space/they haven't changed the threading on the bolt/I can somehow mount the new sensor in the old location...seems unlikely

Off hand does anybody know the size/threading of the lines for the oil cooler? maybe I can find a little sensor adapter to mount inline with the cooler.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 12:42:36 PM
"Off hand does anybody know the size/threading of the lines for the oil cooler? maybe I can find a little sensor adapter to mount inline with the cooler."

That's your best bet.

New style screen and cover are not interchangeable with the old style.

You *may* be able to drill and tap the screen...
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 12:46:56 PM
A '99 750 SS has a one piece screen with a tapped hole for the temp sensor.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 12:49:24 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 12:46:56 PM
A '99 750 SS has a one piece screen with a tapped hole for the temp sensor.

There you go, the ultimate solution!  [beer]
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 12:49:24 PM
There you go, the ultimate solution!  [beer]
Easier than trying to put a tapered thread in there without a lathe to center drill it. ;)
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 01:08:51 PM
Oh god though, a single model and a single year? that could take some time...

If I tried tapping mine I'd get somebody to machine it, I wouldn't just try with the drill press ;)

Gonna look for oil cooler line adapters first I think,

Thanks for all the help so far guys ;D
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 01:13:00 PM
Quote from: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 01:08:51 PM
Oh god though, a single model and a single year? that could take some time...

If I tried tapping mine I'd get somebody to machine it, I wouldn't just try with the drill press ;)

Gonna look for oil cooler line adapters first I think,

Thanks for all the help so far guys ;D
Earlier 750 SS models may well have that same bolt, as well as 900SS motors that had an oil temp gauge. The screen is the same. I believe they changed the design with the 800SS.

The pdf parts files are on Ducati.com for '00 up. You may very well expand the possibilities with some investigation.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 01:33:13 PM
Interesting, I'll definitely do some poking around then and see what I can come up with/what it will cost to do it that way.

I just got off the phone with Summit Racing and it seems that using a T adapter on the lines is totally feasible and rather cheap, Still don't know the size for the line fittings though....annnnnyyyyyonnnne? ;D

I'm thinking this method may be a little easier for a few reasons...

-Shorter sensor line length since it's almost a straight shot down from the gauge to the cooler.
-Less clutter on the pretty side of the bike as I don't need to run any wire down the side.
-Trail tech doesn't offer any sensors with a right angle in the line so running it to the screen might not look very pretty.
-probably much cheaper than buying from Ducati or having to wait or look for used parts.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 01:39:15 PM
The fittings are AN 6 or AN 8...(I can never remember.)

One thing to consider is the screen is on the low pressure side of the oil circuit and a small leak is inconsequential compared to a small  high pressure leak from the cooler.

Your method will certainly work.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 02:03:36 PM
Due to the lines being slightly larger than 1/2" I'm guessing they're -8 fittings, can anyone confirm?

Quote from: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 01:39:15 PM

One thing to consider is the screen is on the low pressure side of the oil circuit and a small leak is inconsequential compared to a small  high pressure leak from the cooler.


Hm, that could be...interesting...I suppose that adding connections increases the chance of a leak...
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 02:37:36 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN_thread (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN_thread)
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 02:56:42 PM
 [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 03:08:21 PM
Quote from: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 02:03:36 PM

Hm, that could be...interesting...I suppose that adding connections increases the chance of a leak...
Plus the cooler is somewhat 'delicate'.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 04:45:42 PM
It is? it always feels pretty solid...What areas are weak?

I've got the parts needed for the cooler connection pretty much sorted out.  Trail tech offers really weird sizes for sensors so it's kind of a pain, I've been sorting through every AN hardware site I can come across trying to get it down to the minimum number of connections.  So far the lowest I can muster is 3 pieces, still not great.  This includes a female to male -8 connector with a 1/8 npt port in the middle, an npt to -6 AN adapter and a -6 AN adapter to metric.  The sensor must be like the one freaking size that makes it impossible to easily connect.  This also happens to be the cheapest solution so far.

Anyways, I'll keep looking...Something worthy will present itself eventually
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 05:12:59 PM
Quote from: Ducatl on October 06, 2009, 04:45:42 PM
It is? it always feels pretty solid...What areas are weak?

I've got the parts needed for the cooler connection pretty much sorted out.  Trail tech offers really weird sizes for sensors so it's kind of a pain, I've been sorting through every AN hardware site I can come across trying to get it down to the minimum number of connections.  So far the lowest I can muster is 3 pieces, still not great.  This includes a female to male -8 connector with a 1/8 npt port in the middle, an npt to -6 AN adapter and a -6 AN adapter to metric.  The sensor must be like the one freaking size that makes it impossible to easily connect.  This also happens to be the cheapest solution so far.

Anyways, I'll keep looking...Something worthy will present itself eventually

Just be careful of the AN  nipple to cooler connection.

This looks like what you need...

http://tinyurl.com/ydx5boq (http://tinyurl.com/ydx5boq)
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 06, 2009, 05:12:59 PM
Just be careful of the AN  nipple to cooler connection.

This looks like what you need...

http://tinyurl.com/ydx5boq (http://tinyurl.com/ydx5boq)

Delicate is the correct term, IMO.
With *any* of the Duc coolers, make sure you've got a wrench on the cooler side of the fitting/elbow.
If you just have a wrench on the hose fitting and react the torque on the cooler, you run a good chance of injuring the cooler.

And for doing what you've planned, I'd be all over that link.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ddan on October 07, 2009, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 06, 2009, 06:20:52 PM


And for doing what you've planned, I'd be all over that link.

If you're not gonna, I am     ;D
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 07, 2009, 05:09:11 PM
Someone that needs it should grab it. ;D
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Speeddog on October 07, 2009, 05:13:09 PM
Just to be clear, I've no interest in that part.

But for the OP, it's the best solution IMO.
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: ducpainter on October 07, 2009, 05:27:25 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 07, 2009, 05:13:09 PM
Just to be clear, I've no interest in that part.

But for the OP, it's the best solution IMO.
Me either...

and I suspect Dan is using psychology. [laugh]
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ducatl on October 07, 2009, 07:02:33 PM
Ha,

It does look like the perfect solution...I think I may end up holding off on getting the temp sensor for the moment, plenty of other things to blow the money on.

Due to trail techs sensor size the cooler hose method is really too complicated for my liking,  If anyone else is planning on installing one the only seemingly clean option is the screen plug method.  Go for it Dan ;D

I'll either pick one of the SS ones up in a couple months or I'll pick up a spare and try having it machined.

Thanks guys! ;D
Title: Re: Oil pressure switch/oil temp. sensor locations
Post by: Ddan on October 08, 2009, 02:14:13 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 07, 2009, 05:27:25 PM
Me either...

and I suspect Dan is using psychology. [laugh]
Nope, Dan's gonna buy it if the OP doesn't move on it soon.   ;D