Ducati Monster Forum

just read this article, i wonder if vw did buy ducati how that would change the brand....

full story here: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/15/rumormill-volkswagen-interested-in-ducati-still/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/15/rumormill-volkswagen-interested-in-ducati-still/)

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30781.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30781.0)

That would SUCK. I hate VW, they make shitty, unreliable cars that cost an arm and a leg to fix and they treat their labor like turds. I don't think I could buy a Duc made by VW.

Wow, tell us how you really feel.

As an owner of 5 different VW's over the years, I have to disagree with you on the reliability...

One of the techs I trained drives an old VW Corrado Turdwagon or something like that. Damn thing has over 260,000 miles on it and the motors never been into. Pretty unreliable if you ask me.

It's not the engines that falter, anyone outside of HD can build a long lasting engine.  it's everything else. Sorry, I've had about 10 friends and a brother fall for VW only to be burned dozens of times over with faulty electrical components, interiors falling apart and just general bad build quality. They've spent thousands on repairs for relatively low-mile vehicles that that spend more time in the shop than on the road. Just check out consumer reports, or do a search on VW lemons and you'll see what I mean.

Gotta cut some credit for this thread having a much better title. The other thread would never show up in a search.


http://motorcycledaily.com/13october09_volkswagen.htm (http://motorcycledaily.com/13october09_volkswagen.htm)

I agree with the above link. I don't see how VW can successfully acquire a new division in the midst of a contentious battle for Porsche.

I think it's nice Piëch is himself a Ducati rider at age 72, but Ducati seem to be going in the "right" direction currently.  I'd just as soon VW keeps it's paws off.

LA

Ducati is going in the right direction? Really?

The problem with growing a small, stylish brand into a large brand is that they lose the style, and the small network that makes them so cool to own.

I agree with a  LOT of what Ducati is doing - Entry priced bikes, creating a club enviornment, etc. in the day of a HD shirt costing $19, shoudl a Ducati shirt cost $30 just beacuse some sucker will pay for it?

Dianese jacket for $550, Add the Ducati logo and its now $995?

I think a few things should change, and I think Ducati should be a lot more mainstream, but not at the expense of the loyalists (too much)

That actually runs the other way around.  Porshe has been acquiring VW stock, not vice versa.  

It breaks down like this.....Porsche owns 42.6% of VW outright.  The German State of Lower Saxony owns 20%.  Porsche built up an option position to control another 31.5% of VW recently (for a total of 74.1%) and then demanded the return of shares borrowed by short sellers, forcing those speculative short sellers to buy shares that were now virtually impossible to get.  The only place they could buy shares to give back to Porsche was from Porsche!  This resulted in a share price spike from around 400 Euros per share before Porsche's announcement to around 1000 Euros per share after.  Porsche made billions of Euros and didn't sell a doggone thing.  This maneuver is called a "corner" and it's illegal in the U.S., though noone has tried doing it here with the use of options...so maybe it's not even technically illegal here.  Anyway........

I own two VWs.  They're well made vehicles.  The maintenance costs of my Ducatis substantially exceeds that of my VWs.  Does that mean Ducati's are less reliable than the VW's you chide, gregrnel?  I think I'd rather buy a bike from a company controlled by VW, than from one controlled by an investor group like TPG, or from a company contolled by the Italian Government.  Ducati has been controlled by both of those entities, yet somehow makes a product that appeals to me.

As far as treating their workers "like turds", they're turds who work four days a week, get what most Americans would consider excessive vacation benefits, don't have to pay for insurance, and make more money than most of their neighbors.  How bad can it be.  If they don't want to work, I'm sure we can find ample replacements for them in this economy.

Didn't Porsche end up with a drastic turn around though, with a deflation of share value to the point that VW turned the deal around on them? I'm not a business major, so I didn't follow the ins and outs, but I knew at one point Porsche was leveraged to buy VW and then, seemingly overnight, it flipped around.

Sorry if this is a thread jack. Just curious.

Never mind, found the explanation on Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/volkswagen-porsche-takeover-markets-debt.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/volkswagen-porsche-takeover-markets-debt.html)

Yes and then Wiedeking was nicely asked to leave. A week later his office was raided to obtain evidence for prosecution. Now VW owns most of the shares in Porsche if I'm not mistaken.

Porsche ran out of credit to buy VW, Porsche shares dumped, VW turned the tables around and will now be buying Porsche.

VW buying Ducati? No. Please no. I like VW but I fear that VW will turn Ducati into a boring brand. If they bought Ducati I wounder how long the Desmo valves would last? I sense cost cutting will ruining one of my favorite things about Ducati. 

Unfortunately that's exactly what will happen

I always felt that owning a Ducati was a way for me – a mere average Joe – to own something exclusive for $15k. There is now way I can afford a Porsche or a Ferrari but a Ducati was attainable. If VW owns Ducati, there will be more R&D money and new models, technology sharing from Lamborghini/Bugati, manufacturing will be streamlined etc. but it will also become more mainstream. Maybe VW will grab MV as Harley is trying to get rid of it and MV can become the mainstream brand.

As for Ducati I get the impression that they are already loosing their way, considering the upcoming Multi and the stupid Viper power cruiser thing. When I look Guzzi's, Moto Morini's and the other Italian brands I still see the Italian edge associated with them. (see the drooling over the Guzzi Grizo http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30615.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30615.0)) Unfortunately for me, Ducati is becoming this big red blob where every new model is morphed from the 1198.

ok I'm off my soap box... I think I should go for a ride and love my Ducati again

Cars & Motorcycles don't share much in common. Proton found that out when they bought MV Agusta. There's some commonality with engines & suspension, but not enough to share design resources.

I am referring to American sold VWs, all of which are built in Mexico when referring to treating labor like turds.
Sorry, I have never personally known a happy VW owner.
If my Duc had stranded me as many times as my friend's former Golf, or my brother's former Passat, or my other friend's Bug, it would have been out the door long ago.

its been my experience they are rather good vehicles if you get some one who knows how to work on them.

I've worked on literally thousands of vw's. I'd say 95% of the owners were happy with them, 4.99% were too cheap to have them fixed right, the other .01% own corrados  [laugh]

Ducati could learn a thing or ten about fuel injection from them.

My VW was actually built in Slovakia.  The wife's VW was built in Germany.  VW is currently building a new production facility in Chattanooga, TN (my old hometown).

Just a few tidbits from a happy VW owner.

P.S.  They could have done a better job designing the brakes for maintainability, but I guess that's kinda nitpicky.

All VWs are not built in Mexico.  I also highly doubt VW is treating Mexican labor worse than Ford, GM and Chrysler.  My wife's last two Passats were built in Germany, my GTI was built in Brazil and most Touaregs are built in Germany.  Like Mr. Exact, we have had a few VWs, six to be exact.  Make that seven.  Forgot about the kid's car.  All have been reliable.  VW's biggest problem in the US has been too many poor dealers who can't fix simple problems, a lot like Ducati.

VW owners tend to remind me of Mac owners. My brother is on his second VW and is planning on trading it in for another one at some point, has VW hats, shirts, etc, and is always telling people about how much he loves VW and thinks everyone should drive them....never mind the fact that I have long since lost track of how many times the 2 he's had so far have been in the shop. I'm pretty sure the coffee place by the dealership makes a killing off the VW owners sitting around discussing how much they love their cars while waiting to find out what's wrong this time...

Come on guys, VW can maintain the passion for a vehicle just as well as anyone else.  They are actually doing some pretty cool stuff.  I didn't see Lambo loose any flare or passion since VW bought them.  They have only become more reliable.  Then through Bugatti, VW made the worlds fastest car with the Veyron.  It has 1001 HP and tops out at 253 MPH.  It also has air conditioning, cruise control, air bags...the works.  It all works quite well too by the way.  The coolest part is that they knowingly built it at a loss.  They knew that it wouldn't make money but they still wanted to prove it could be done!  I think a company like that would do fine owning the brand that all of us love so much.

and Ducati owners.

I'm typing this on my Mac, I have owned 7 VW's, the latest is a 20T Passat Wagon.
I must just be very lucky as not one of them has ever broken down on me.
On that same note none of my Nissans has ever left me stranded either. Most cars these days are pretty good

If any company were to buy Ducati I would it would be VW.  It's going to happen someday, why not let it be a company that has a following similar to Ducati.  VWs are great cars.  Yeah the windows always break, you find random little plastic interior parts laying around, but they run forever and are pleasurable to drive.

I should say I own an 87 VW Scirocco 16v I picked up with a busted head in San Fran.  Sat in a garage for 5 years.  Rebuilt the head, bottom end is still original at 189k and it runs like a beast. 

Buyouts are generally good.  We are jaded with certain corporate decisions lately. 

VW will buy MV Agusta (Cagiva Group) within the next 90 days.  (given the news today from Harley Davidson wanting to sell them)

It would be a good fit with their Lamborghini, Bugatti, Porsche, Audi and Bentley brands.

What? No R-E-P-O-S-T?

I mean derby.

He's a kinder...

gentler...

derby. ;D

I hate my 2000 VW passat with passion.  I hate it so much I won't even bother to fix the window (off track), I just duct taped it.   ;D

VW and Ducati, that's where I will quit.

A friend was a big VW nut, a couple Passats and a GTI. He got tired of driving 1.5 hours to the nearest dealer to have things fixed all the time. He took my advice and bought a Toyota, not an issue in five years of ownership.

I find this whole thread about unreasonable loyalty to a brand that isn't notoriously reliable sort of rediculous here. VW has deep pockets, and do some awfully impressive things.


You would rather Ducati gets bought out by HD?

(http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/21525/How-to-make-a-Ducati-look-good---/ducati_mechanics.jpg)

Porsche's CEO
, Wendelin Wiedeking and his CFO were looking for someone to come up with the remaining cash to buy VW when the Economic Crisis hit and Chairman Merkel of Germany talked the backer of the Porsche CEO and CFO in to backing the Duke of Lower Saxony and VW and they did pull the rug right out from under Wendelin and his CFO, but on the way out Wendelin took about $140,000,000 plus and his CFO took out close to $75,000,000 .

The 2 of them are under all kinds of investigations as far as stock manipulations and fraud I believe.

Dolph      :)

Yup thats the buzz around here these days.   [thumbsup]

Okay, just to bury the VW reliability thing, and not that Consumer Reports is the end all be all but the ratings are from real user data.

Used cars to avoid

Volkswagen Cabrio '99,
'01-02; Eos '07;
Golf '02-03;
 GTI (turbo) '02-03, '06-07;
Jetta (4-cyl.) '99-00, '03, '05;
Jetta (turbo) '01-04, '06;
Jetta (V6) '00-01, '03;
New Beetle '99-07;
Passat (FWD) '99-04, '06-07;
Passat (V6, AWD) '00-01, '07;
Touareg '04-06, '08

Quite a large list

And they continuously score "The Rest" - Lowest rating from JD Powers every year for dependability.
So, no I do not want Ducati to be taken over by a company that has little or no respect for quality. If it came down to it, I'd pick Honda or Toyota to buy Ducati over VW.

I have owned (and currently own) these with no problems...

Ha, that there is funny.

I think I'm going to make this into a huge poster for my garage/office. Very cool.