I'm looking for opinions I wouldn't otherwise get, so I'm asking the broadest social network I'm a member of. :) I've been self-employed for about 9 years and, while things have been good, I don't really have a career path. I see getting an MBA as a way to either take on new projects or seek a more lucrative salary in an organization. Because I'll need to work while I'm attending, I need an executive MBA program.
Right now I'm looking at programs like Berkeley (very pricey), Pepperdine (stupid pricey) or San Jose State (less pricey). Is it worth paying more for the school with more prestige? From the other conversations I've had, it seems that a primary advantage of getting an MBA is the alumni network it gives you access to. Is it worth paying for that? (Assuming I get even get in.)
I really appreciate the input.
Quote from: sugarcrook on October 31, 2009, 06:18:05 PM
I'm looking for opinions I wouldn't otherwise get, so I'm asking the broadest social network I'm a member of. :) I've been self-employed for about 9 years and, while things have been good, I don't really have a career path. I see getting an MBA as a way to either take on new projects or seek a more lucrative salary in an organization. Because I'll need to work while I'm attending, I need an executive MBA program.
Right now I'm looking at programs like Berkeley (very pricey), Pepperdine (stupid pricey) or San Jose State (less pricey). Is it worth paying more for the school with more prestige? From the other conversations I've had, it seems that a primary advantage of getting an MBA is the alumni network it gives you access to. Is it worth paying for that? (Assuming I get even get in.)
I really appreciate the input.
saw an article (in WSJ if i recall) which said that the average MBA does not return the
financial investment. as an engineer being prepped for management, i took what was
purported to be an MBA level course in leadership ... biggest waste of time i can imagine.
here at my current place of employment, we have an MBA 'V.P.' who can't understand why
50% of (150% of $1.00) does not equal $1.00.
my advice: the value of an MBA appears to be related to where it is obtained, not what
is learned. if this is something you absolutely have to do, go for berkeley or stanford.
I'm interested to see responses to this as well. I've been thinking about an MBA as a way to get into a different career besides actually practicing medicine (later). People apparently now feel entitled to my services in my current career.
Quote from: abby normal on November 02, 2009, 04:19:30 AM
my advice: the value of an MBA appears to be related to where it is obtained, not what
is learned. if this is something you absolutely have to do, go for berkeley or stanford.
[thumbsup]
a mba friend once told me it's more about the "where" and building a "business network" than about the course material.
Quote from: swampduc on November 02, 2009, 04:31:39 AM
I'm interested to see responses to this as well. I've been thinking about an MBA as a way to get into a different career besides actually practicing medicine (later). People apparently now feel entitled to my services in my current career.
i see what you did there. :P
If you can't go to a Top 10 Rated Program, then it really doesn't matter.
1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Northwestern
4. University of Pennsylvania
5.MIT
6. Univ of Chicago
7. Berkely
8. Dartmouth
9. Columbia
10. Yale
There's two ways of looking at - Education and prestige. For getting a job prestige probably matters more. That means a top 50 program at least, top 25 is better, top 10 best. The programs can be tough but do provide a good education. If you want the education then it doesn't matter as much as where you go as long as you do more than is required. It's a great opportunity to learn a ton on a myriad of topics. That's the key to an MBA. Learning a lot about a ton of topics. You can create a great social network but you need to keep it up. I'm not a social networker so that aspect of it passed me by.
All that said if you're a good learner there are several "MBA's in a book" that can get you started.
2 observations on education.
If you are headed for a career that doesn't pay dick, don't accrue debt even if that means going to lower echelon schools or not going to school. I have tons of friends in upper enviro science or anthropology whatever that are at the pinnacle of their field and will never be able to crawl out from under their debt.
If you are headed for a career that makes bank, or want to make bank in business (not as an entrepreneur), the prestige names have it all. I am constantly amazed at all the doors that open for my friends with Harvard and Yale degrees. It borders on disgusting really. Some of them couldn't manage to pour the water out of a bucket if you told them the instructions were on the bottom, and yet they are making big six figures. If they want a change of scenery they make a couple of phone calls to the alumni network and they have another cushy gig.
I really wish I had known this when I was buying education......
Quote from: cyrus buelton on November 02, 2009, 04:37:27 AM
If you can't go to a Top 10 Rated Program, then it really doesn't matter.
1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Northwestern
4. University of Pennsylvania
5.MIT
6. Univ of Chicago
7. Berkely
8. Dartmouth
9. Columbia
10. Yale
number 7 is spelled "Berkeley".
I'm rocking a California state proficiency, a ged, and a tech school. i have no worries about any of that stuff.
Thanks for all the input. From the responses, it seems like targeting the more expensive schools might be worth my time. Now getting accepted is another matter entirely...
Quote from: abby normal on November 02, 2009, 12:36:21 PM
number 7 is spelled "Berkeley".
I don't have my MBA, so I haven't learned to spell yet ;D
Quote from: cyrus buelton on November 02, 2009, 04:37:27 AM
If you can't go to a Top 10 Rated Program, then it really doesn't matter.
I think it's a bit more regional (for example: USC has as much or more prestige in Cal then Chicago/Penn/Northwestern would). It also depends what you are using the MBA for and where.
Quote from: hbliam on November 05, 2009, 04:02:47 PM
I think it's a bit more regional (for example: USC has as much or more prestige in Cal then Chicago/Penn/Northwestern would). It also depends what you are using the MBA for and where.
I don't agree with that at all.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on November 03, 2009, 03:45:09 AM
I don't have my MBA
Quote from: cyrus buelton on November 18, 2009, 04:28:34 AM
Quote from: hbliam on November 05, 2009, 04:02:47 PM
I think it's a bit more regional (for example: USC has as much or more prestige in Cal then Chicago/Penn/Northwestern would). It also depends what you are using the MBA for and where.
I don't agree with that at all.
I see...
So, my friend recently got his MBA from the Thunderbird School - not a top 10 school but the US News list, but has been the top-rated international business school for about 10 years running (by US news). He is now going through the process of applying for a spot in the state department. I am not sure if his credentials and experiences would have gotten him as far in the process if he went to another international school, or a school that did not specialize in international business. If he decided on a civilian job, I am certain that graduating from this school and not another would have a huge impact on where he landed. There is a network of Thunderbird grads that is both tight and widespread -there are standing alumni nights in most big cities, and they go as far as to put up visiting alums for the night, provide local contacts, etc.
As far as I can tell, business school is about your classmates as much as it is the quality of the eduction. It sounds a lot like nepotism, but the contacts you have when you leave may be the most valuable thing you take away when you graduate. I think there is something to the regional thing, as your chances of having a connection via a cohort in that region is probably better.
So, in choosing a school, you'll probably want to figure out not only what education you want, but whether you want a network of UoX vs UoY to tap in to.
It really all depends on what you want to do with that MBA. Many Executive MBA programs are stupid pricey because they cater to executives whose companies are paying for the MBA program. My mom recently did one of those and the conclusion in that case was that it was not about learning anything or even networking but rather, they simply could not promote her to where they wanted to without her having a graduate degree. This is often the case.
Many people right now are getting their MBA because the job market is so awful, particularly finance professionals. This makes the top tier MBA programs particularly competitive because these folks are all 1)obsessed with titles and prestige and 2)have been banking six figures since the day they stepped out of undergrad and have the money to spend. So do keep in mind that if you want a top program now, it will be hard to get in.
On the other hand, there are some great top programs that do not attract the prestige-school boys simply because of the location or name. UT Austin would be one of those. The value of the degree as actually been appreciating.
My key advice here is that if you really want to make your MBA a solid investment, know with 100% certainty going into it exactly what you want to get out of it. Most MBAs do not return on the investment precisely because the person did not have a sense of clear direction going in. This is critical so that you can make the most of the network while you are there. You will make "friends" differently based on what job you want out of school. Your classmates and professor contacts are the most useful part of your degree.
And if you want the hands-down most practical program that will actually prepare you for running your own company (that you will probably start while in school), than I would have to recommend my alma mater, Babson College.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on November 18, 2009, 04:28:34 AM
I don't agree with that at all.
That doesn't really matter or add anything to the discussion. I live here and when it's said that you have a Masters or MBA from USC it's a big deal.
Quote from: hbliam on November 18, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
That doesn't really matter or add anything to the discussion. I live here and when it's said that you have a Masters or MBA from USC it's a big deal.
I think someone would take a Univ of Chicago, Harvard, or Yale MBA over a USC one.
If they didn't, they other factors were involved, as the three schools I listed are far superior.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on November 18, 2009, 09:55:29 AM
I think someone would take a Univ of Chicago, Harvard, or Yale MBA over a USC one.
If they didn't, they other factors were involved, as the three schools I listed are far superior.
Actually, you'd be surprised by the locality factor involved in education. If you want to get a job in a specific area, then a school where most of the students are from that area is going to be more fruitful. There are a lot more USC alumni in SoCal than there are Chicago or Yale alumni, so if you want to stay in USC, it is probably going to have more weight. For example, if you are working in Houston, TX your Rice degree is actually worth far more than a Harvard or Yale degree. Move to Boston and of course, that changes.
Quote from: DesmoLu on November 18, 2009, 10:27:56 AM
Actually, you'd be surprised by the locality factor involved in education. If you want to get a job in a specific area, then a school where most of the students are from that area is going to be more fruitful. There are a lot more USC alumni in SoCal than there are Chicago or Yale alumni, so if you want to stay in USC, it is probably going to have more weight. For example, if you are working in Houston, TX your Rice degree is actually worth far more than a Harvard or Yale degree. Move to Boston and of course, that changes.
interesting. To what extent w MBA programs are there schools that do well in specific fields? For instance, do certain schools do well in health care administration or in finance?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on November 18, 2009, 09:55:29 AM
I think someone would take a Univ of Chicago, Harvard, or Yale MBA over a USC one.
If they didn't, they other factors were involved, as the three schools I listed are far superior.
You will notice I didn't say Yale or Harvard in my original post. Both of those schools easily would get the nod over USC. Their names transcend region. But here in So Cal, USC is looked very favorably upon, more so then some of your other "top tens". Remember my point had to do with region. Where do you think the guys around here making the decisions went to? yep, USC.
definitely know wha tyou want to get out of school before you go in. with law school you had way too many people going in with no clue as what do when they got out, and some wondered why they were under so much debt getting out.
of course as you mentioned, we all want to goto the best schools but the best school are tough to get into. obviously if you have a yale degree sky is the limit, but first you ahve to have the grades and such just to get in, obviously not everyone can get it otherwise everyone would be going to yale.
take the tests and apply to some schools and see where you land then make a decision. good luck.
Quote from: swampduc on November 18, 2009, 12:24:47 PM
interesting. To what extent w MBA programs are there schools that do well in specific fields? For instance, do certain schools do well in health care administration or in finance?
Of course! If you want to work in Finance, for example, New York schools like Columbia and NYU or good-old boys club schools like Harvard are where you need to be. If you want to be in something Econ related, Chicago for sure. NYU is particularly good with international business. UPenn has a niche in management and training future execs. That's where the real research comes in.
I have no idea about health care administration. With the way those companies are run I'd be surprised if they had MBA's...
I must have missed the memo.
I wasn't aware I needed one. [evil]
Quote from: ducpainter on November 18, 2009, 01:19:53 PM
I must have missed the memo.
I wasn't aware I needed one. [evil]
It's certainly not for everyone.
I've been talking to a handful of people and the general consensus is it's not the alumni network - nobody I talked to reaches out to their alumni. Rather, it's a brand that matters. Northwestern has a better brand than SJSU, for instance.
Quote from: sugarcrook on November 18, 2009, 09:02:35 PM
I've been talking to a handful of people and the general consensus is it's not the alumni network - nobody I talked to reaches out to their alumni. Rather, it's a brand that matters. Northwestern has a better brand than SJSU, for instance.
the people you've been talking to must have a bad alumni network. Its not so much about reaching out to your alumni but about the reputation they have. Where do they go? what do they do? They ARE the brand. They bring their companies to your school to recruit. They are the ones reviewing your resume at the company, going out of their way to get you an interview. You will probably not know it until you need them.
I was amazed by the lengths Babson alumni went through to help our students get a job on Wall Street and also amazed at how much say we had in recruiting and hiring when it came to speaking for Babson grads. Your alumni are essentially your voice in the company, unless you have another solid connection of course. If you don't have any connection or alumni network, chances of getting hired are VERY slim.
vandybuilt and smooo aren't too shabby either.
i did the ol' JD route. the kids in business school look happy at bars. the law students are all just drinking to hide their snarls of unhappiness.
Quote from: ato memphis on November 19, 2009, 04:24:53 PM
vandybuilt and smooo aren't too shabby either.
i did the ol' JD route. the kids in business school look happy at bars. the law students are all just drinking to hide their snarls of unhappiness.
I thought about JD as well, but all of the lawyers I know hate what they do. And you can always just hire a lawyer. :)
the lawyers I know (numerous) all seem to enjoy their job, but nobody remotely enjoys law school. Not even a fake smile about it. I have friends that went off to Duke Law, or are at Vandy law (as far as top schools go) and friends at UTK or UGA (I'm at SMU) and the feeling is identical everywhere. You beat your head against books day-in-day-out and the practicing attorneys are quick to remind you that despite all this, you won't be prepared to practice law when you graduate. (sonofapregnant dog).
Getting a masters in whatever your undergraduate degree is (if its a good science background of some type) would be most adviseable from what I see. And more fun. If I had gotten a Masters in Engineering, I'd be almost done, had friends and professors who liked jokes and happiness, and wouldn't have to read a few hundred pages a day, everyday, of bad writing.
I would like to thank Scott Turow (http://www.amazon.com/One-L-Scott-Turow/dp/0374226474) for discouraging me from getting a JD, and ATO Memphis for reinforcing the point :)
A friend who had practiced for a while (and who quit to go back to school) recommended I read Turow's book for an idea of what law school would be like. About page 10 I realized it was not for me (I am not a very good student).
That book wasn't even the half of it. That was just year 1.
which school has the most chicks?
[/thread]
Quote from: CapnCrunch on November 21, 2009, 06:20:31 AM
which school has the most chicks?
[/thread]
Proportionally, the University of Alaska Southeast. It's almost 2/3 female.
hard to tell what they look like when they are bundled up all the time.
if chicks is part of the quest, lets investigate Ole Miss and Florida State.
Just revisiting an old thread. I decided on Cal State Monterey Bay's Executive MBA program. It's a fraction of the cost of other programs and I should be done in 24 months.