Ducati Monster Forum

I introduced myself and stated what I want here:  http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=31446.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=31446.0)

I've never owned a Ducati.  I have owned 17 different bikes over the years and I now want to add a Ducati.  I need opinions on the 2006 S2R800 Dark.  I found a used one with only 1000 miles on it.  Please read my initial post in the link above to learn about my needs.  Since this is a use one, I need info pretty quick.

The 1100 may be the way to go for you if you can justify the cost. I owned an '05 S2R 800 for a couple of years. They're a great bike, lots of fun, very light and pretty comfortable too. From what I've read the M1100/696 aren't as comfortable as the older models (I haven't ridden the new ones so I'm basing this on reading about it & sitting on the bike so I may be way off base). I remember my S2R 800 fondly but I'd probably go for an M1100 myself. You can definitely get yourself moving on the 800 and based on your intro post would be fine depending on what you weigh.

The S2R 800 is a capable bike, but has some short comings. It was still pretty entry level, so the forms are not adjustable, and the rear shock has minimal adjustments. Also the stock from brakes were 2 piston, on 300mm rotors- which are fairly hum drum. They can be brought to a bit more life with different pads - or a swap to the 4 piston on 320mm rotors is an easy job.

The 800 plants good, no ones had problems with them like the S2R 1000 surge. Decent power, and torque - sounds like it matches to your wants in your other post.

The 800 has the APTC modified slipepr clutch - so you get that, and the very light lever pull. Wet clutch - so if you have ducati clutch jingle lust, the 800 won't grant that wish

On a personal note... the Dark is a sweet look. It'll need a passenger seat cover if it doesn't have one, IMO, but the flat metallic black is SHARP!

Now, vs. an 1100 - I cannot say much. I've only sat upon and 1100. But the shape of the seat and tank... is um problematic for me. Just sitting on it wasn't so comfy and hard braking might requite a little time-out if a foot slipped of the peg and I slid forward at all

You're right Yuu but all of these issues can be addressed with mods, who doesn't like mods?  ;D

(http://photos.toshcroft.com/Bikes/2005-04-13-Dans-S2R-Ducati/2006-10-08-Catskills-039/101168306_a4fSB-XL.jpg)

I have one and have had a great time with it. It's a good bike, easy to live with and to service. It does lack the high-end suspension and brakes, but you don't need them unless you are breaking the law regularly on public roads or tracking frequently. The stock suspension and brakes are easily as good or better than what you would find on a comparable Japanese bike. Forks are Marzocchi, brakes Brembo, shock Sachs, wheels Marchesini. All these are lower-end components from high-end manufacturers(yes Marzocchi makes some really good other stuff). I get tired of reading people whine about the S2R800's shortcomings when you can't even begin to explore its limits and not lose your license and be jailed if caught doing so. Just hubris mainly, a dick-measuring contest. Most people can't ride at the level they talk. These stock components have been adequate for my purposes, and I ride rather hard because I just can't help it. It's a great bike for what you want it for, and won't bust your wallet at the service intervals.

I went from a 620 (basically the same suspension as the S2R 800) to a kitted 900S - RaceTech front and Ohlins in the back. I have to say, that the 900, all around feels more planted on the road, regardless of the legality or lack there of, of my speed.

Nice Steve... nice.

Well, the S2R800 owner is asking $650 over NADA book value and said he is firm on that.  He is the second owner and the bike only has 1000 miles on it???!!  It has the carbon seat cover, rear mud flap removed and mini stalk blinkers.  Still considering it but I think I'm back to the 1100.  Just can't see myself paying more than book value.

Yes, a lot of talk about the stock suspension is BS, *however*, if you're outside the size the stock suspension was developed for by any kind of substantial margin then it becomes much more of a serious issue. Even more so if you're on less than optimal roads.

On my 675, the shock is sprung at ~12.5 kgs, I need a 7.6 kg spring (IIRC), I ride less than optimal roads most of the time. Does the fact that the over sprung rear kicks me out of my seat on sharp bumps still mean that suspension upgrades are a waste of time? For the record anyone who knows about suspension would query what I have on the S2R 800 above & be right to do so. ;)

There's a difference between upgrading for bling & upgrading because there's a reason for it. What it comes down to IMO is that if your weight & riding style are outside the possible adjustments of your stock suspension then upgrading suspension is a valuable mod.

Thanks Yuu, it really was a fun bike. :)

Kinda curious Steve, what do you weigh?  I'm 170 so I'd like to compare.

Right now I weigh about 155 ish. With gear probably around 170 or maybe 180 with my Vanson once piece. ;)

Quite frankly, I would be suspicious of the whole thing, why after 2 owners does it have only 1000 miles on it, is there something wrong with it?
I know for a lot of people a bike is a weekend warrior type of deal, but surely a 2006 bike should have more miles than that by now.

also being that age, timing belts will need to be changed, also will need a oil change unless it has been done recently, and probably not a bad Idea to get the Shock/Forks serviced anyway, and while they have them apart, get the springs set for your weight.

But if it is only a small price difference to go up to the 1100 Monster, I personally would be getting the new bike (I own a S2R 800 and love it dearly) but I always prefer new, because at least I know what has happened to it from day one.

I'm not against good suspension. I'm trying to say that for the money the S2R800 is a good bike for its intended purpose and quite reliable. $600 above book for a bike thats 3 years or so old and on its second owner, hmmm. Sometimes it may be better to have a bike that's been ridden. Makes you wonder what kind of maintenance it's had if its owners never gave it any exercise. Some think that just because you don't use it you don't have to maintain it which is not true. I'd look elsewhere. S2R800s are for sale all over the place. One could get a real deal on one of these babies. I'll be letting go of mine soon even.

I'm 162 and consider the suspension a bit oversprung and not as responsive as the more expensive models, but I'm not uncomfortable with it and don't consider it any kind of safety issue. For the money it's an awesome bike. 

Hmm.. I might keep walking. Though is that $650 of the NADA trade in price, or the retail price? Either way, it's not a rare bike, and not nearly as modified as many of the 800's I've seen for sale - Value proposition just doesn't seem to be there.

And as noted, unless it's been done - you're on the hook for a couple hundred bucks worth of work to sort the belts.


* Just did a quick sweep of the sales on here.
A highish milage, but pristine S2R 800 with arrow cnas and mid pipe was asking $3500
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30895.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30895.0)
There's a yeller one with exhaust and some other goodies for $7000
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30285.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30285.0)

Anotehr nice yeller on right up the road from me
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=28416.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=28416.0)

Agreed. Seems like it might not be worth it, keeping in mind of course that if you want a dark bike you can't just change the plastics on the older models like you can on the new ones. As a general proposition I think the S2R 800 is a great bike but maybe not this specific example. Like I said, I'd probably go for the M1100S if I could swing the cash.

The second owner and only 1000 miles really threw me also.  I agree, I'd rather have seen 10,000 maintained miles than 1000 over 3 years or so.  He did say a shop (not a dealership) had done the 600 mile service.  This bike was only 45 miles away but I think I'm going to keep looking.

The $650 is over top retail value so like I said; I'm still looking.

Now another wrench has been thrown into the works.  I was looking at a local dealership's website checking out their 1100s (that's plural not the "S" version).  I decided to look at the used.  They have an '08 S2R1000 listed with only 100 miles.  I assume it is a leftover that saw some demo time.  They price it $1,000 less than an '09 1100.  Which way would you go?  Were there enough improvements to the 1100 to make me walk away from the 1000?  $1000 dollars off really doesn't seem that great of a deal on a year old model unless they are selling it with full factory warranty.  If that was the case then $1000 could go towards the exhaust.  I'm thinking they might deal more on the 1000.  More opinions needed and thanks for all the help so far.

I'd go 1100 but you should read reviews of the two and decide based on which you prefer and if you feel that the reviews will affect your choice in any way. Preferably test ride both but I know that's not always possible.

S2R 1000. Just cause it's more comfortable out of the box. With the 1100 you'll need to invest in adjustable levers and a kinder seat.

I doubt a test ride on a 1100 will be possible but I'd think I should be able to ride the M1000.

I've read some reviews on both and that really got me nowhere.  They both sound "brilliant".

I'd appreciate it if someone could point out the differences between the two.

From the pictures, it looks like the 1000 has a more comfy seat but I won't know till I sit on both and even then, as you know; I won't be able to tell how they will be on a ride of more than 30 minutes.

I hope to go to the shop this week to look at them both side by side.

You should be able to test ride an 1100, just make sure to wear a cup.

M1100 - "sportier" position, better handling, less comfortable, new style
S2R 1000 - more comfortable, better over distance, old style

They're my cliff notes, however wrong they might be. ;)

Fixed

So I hear.

Steve, why do you say better handling?  Was there a suspension change or is it just do to the new frame having different steering head angle?  Everything I've read said the 1000 was pretty sharp in the handling dept.

From what I gather the HP numbers are the same so I guess the 1100 has a slightly better torque curve?

As for the styling, I'm not too crazy about all the new transformers look everything seems to be going to these days.  There is something to be said for the old round headlight especially on the Monster style bike.  I kinda like the old analog gages too.  The 1100 does seem to be a lot "cleaner" though.  They did work out how to hide some of the lines and wires.  I'll make final judgment on looks when I see them both in person.

Again, like I said in a previous post; that comfort thing might weigh pretty heavy in the decision on two bikes so close in performance.

@1KDS - That's fair, thanks.

@dennisd - According to the reviews I've read, the M1100 bike handles much better than the S2R, it's a little more aggressive with more weight on the front. YMMV of course.

I think it comes down to style & your intentions with the bike. You'd said in your intro that you like strafing corners. The M1100 will be a better bike for that. If you want to go on long rides, the S2R will be better. The M1100 has better brakes and is lighter (IIRC), carrying the weight differently (again, IIRC). For a corner machine, you're better off with the M1100, if you're more interested in comfort, go with the S2R. But, if you just flat out like the style of the S2R or can't afford the M1100, you're not going to notice or be missing out on much. Buy which ever makes you smile more. ;)

OK Steve, thanks for explaining your statement about better handling.  I definitely understand about the weight bias being better on the 1100 if more is on the front wheel(didn't know that, none of the reviews I found mentioned that).  And if the 1100 is lighter that can only help.  I definitely live for the corners, however; living in SE Texas I have to ride further than some to reach twisty bits.  Like I originally said, straight line high speed gives me no real thrill although I do like brisk acceleration.  I remember riding with some touring types one time that thought I was crazy because I'd speed up for the curves then slow back down below the speed limit in the straight stretches so they could catch up.

I think you are right but 'handles better' could be interpreted as 'handles differently' ... it depends on your riding style and preferences. I have only ever had one bike (my S2R 800) but rode an M1100S for few hours back in June. It took me a while to work it out but yes, the more front weight bias of the new style was unsettling for me ... just as it was for my wife (temporarily) going from a 620 to a 696.

However the sportsbike guys much preferred the new style monster for the same reason and consequently don't like to ride the old style.

dennisd, when asking for a comparison or recommendation bear in mind that most folks have a clear preference which may be entirely based on aesthetics. I have a clear preference for the old style ... your views may or may not be influenced by the 'old-style' bias of many members on here.

So far as buying a low mileage older bike (or an 800) goes, FWIW bought a perfect condition 2003 M800 w/ only 1700 miles two months ago , definitely had some concerns about possible leaky seals, hydraulic cylinders, etc. but no problems at all after 2200 miles, inspected the belts and they look OK...but I might just be lucky on all this of course or so far :-\....anyway love the bike, plenty of power and great handling and paid about half what it cost new

Ok, I'm not sure I agree that turns in faster is a subjective thing but I certainly accept that some people would prefer a slower turning bike over a quicker turning bike.

i picked up an '06 red/white with 4,000 miles on it for 5g's...look around and you'll find something. took me a couple months of looking

Betty wrote:

I realize that, I'm just trying to gather as much informed info as possible.

Victor441;  I'm not so concerned about getting an older bike if I get a good deal.  The money saved will go toward setting it up the way I want.  The one I found was a little suspicious though; second owner and only 1000 miles on a 3 year old bike.  Plus, he wants $650 above the NADA top retail value.  Why should I pay more than what it's valued at?  It might be worth more to him becasue he really doesn't want to sell?

Steve;  As long as that quicker turning bike does not also act "skittish" mid turn or at higher speeds, it's a good thing.  But, then again; a Ducati would never act skittish would it?

I understood the concerns on that bike but didn't make that clear, definitely sounds like one to pass on...I meant if another older low mileage one comes along it might be a good bet, I see a fair number on CL  with only a few hundred miles per year...I felt like mine could be a bad buy as I've seen cars with major and expensive problems from not being driven, but it is fine so far.

I think Dennis is more interested in performance than looks. The 1100, as 696, forces the rider's weight forward due to the seat positioning. This puts more weight on the front that can only help in the turning in. It's also feels more stable in the turns, but that was on the 1100S, so I'm not sure how much was the Ohlins. You will learn much if you get to test ride them. I live in Florida now so comfort is very high on the list. If I live right next to twisties, I would look at an 1100. If I had to ride a considerable amount to get to decent roads, then 1000 would be my choice.

That's where performance becomes subjective: how quick is too quick? I think that's Betty's point (sorry if I'm getting that wrong Betty). Something handles better (IMO) if it turns in faster, holds a line better, etc. It's an objective measurement. How much you like something turning in quick, how much it suits your style or needs is a subjective measurement.

For me (just to be clear, this is only based on sitting on the M1100), the shape of the tank on the M1100 actually gives you somewhere to grip with your knee when you're trying to hang off. That's a big deal. The stock exhaust on the M1100 doesn't foul your heel on the right side like the S2R and that's also a big deal for me. Personally (now that I've taken a second to actually think about it [laugh]) those two items alone are deal breakers when it comes to the S2R/S4R. The exhaust fouling on the Streetfighter is just idiotic.

My S4RS burnt nearly all the way through my new boots, I ended up putting an ExBox on it but that's a lot to spend to remove the poor ergonomics which *will* affect your comfort on the bike and your ability to be comfortable hitting the twisties without mods.

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make ... subjective.

It doesn't handle better if you can't handle how it handles  [cheeky] [laugh]

OK, for those of you that have been trying to help me make up my mind; please follow me over here:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=31531.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=31531.0)

I'd argue that it handles better but the rider is the handling problem but I know I'm splitting hairs. ;)

That's subjective  ;) ;)

You are.


[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]