A week of 70-degree, sunny days ahead and I go out to the garage to find a flat rear tire. WHY?! >:(
Question is, how do I fix it? I have a plug kit but somehow that seems sketch to me... I have never had a flat on a motorcycle before. ???
Paging IZ :D
Quote from: Shifty on November 04, 2009, 07:37:31 PM
A week of 70-degree, sunny days ahead and I go out to the garage to find a flat rear tire. WHY?! >:(
The motorcycle gods don't like you?
Question is, how do I fix it? I have a plug kit but somehow that seems sketch to me... I have never had a flat on a motorcycle before. ???
Where is the puncture? How big? How much tread is left? Other than a plug to keep me going temporarily, the only type of plug I would consider is a mushroom plug installed from the inside of the tire.
Haven't found the leak yet, the tire has a decent amount of tread left but it's badly squared. I wanted to get a new one this winter anyway and would use this as an excuse if I could afford it now (need a front tire worse). The plug kit I have is the push/pull/cut style. I'm trying to avoid removing the tire. Honestly after this week I will likely take the bike in for 12,000 mile service and a new chain. Maybe I'll just plug it. It will get me through this streak of awesome riding weather. ;)
Plugging a cycle tire is sketchy and dangerous. I had one earlier this year, found the hole, did the fix a flat just to get it to the dealer at a slow pace to have the tire replaced. It was almost time anyway.
A plugged moto tire is just as safe as a new one if the proper plug is used and installed correctly. I have ridden several thousand miles on plugged tires. The bike will let you know immediately if your tire pressure is below about 20psi. It handles like a truck and will not want to turn. Tires are constructed in a way that prevents a catastrophic blowout. If they do lose pressure it is in a very controlled, predictable manner.
Use Slime in an emergency(fix a flat is extremely messy and practically useless)
Patch a tire properly by removing it from the rim and plugging it with a mushroom type plug.
The expense of doing this may be better spent on a new tire, but that is your decision.
P.S. ***I am only speaking from experience with rear tires, and would not ride on any front tire in which the internal construction had been compromised.***
I have ridden numerous plugged tires for thousands of miles as well. I would plug it and ride it.
Those of you saying it's dangerous-have you ridden a plugged tire?
Quote from: MrIncredible on November 05, 2009, 07:15:55 AM
I have ridden numerous plugged tires for thousands of miles as well. I would plug it and ride it.
+1.
Never seen a problem with a plugged tire.
Same here, plugged a tire several times. Rode it to the end of tire life. At worst its going to slowly leak.
Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try a plug but first I HAVE TO FIND THE LEAK!!! I hosed the entire wheel down with soapy water and I have yet to find the leak. The tire lost all it's air overnight so I assumed it would be fairly noticable but I guess not.
Quote from: Shifty on November 05, 2009, 12:53:03 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try a plug but first I HAVE TO FIND THE LEAK!!! I hosed the entire wheel down with soapy water and I have yet to find the leak. The tire lost all it's air overnight so I assumed it would be fairly noticable but I guess not.
Did you check the valve? It may have come lose and just needs to be tightened.
Quote from: Shifty on November 05, 2009, 12:53:03 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try a plug but first I HAVE TO FIND THE LEAK!!! I hosed the entire wheel down with soapy water and I have yet to find the leak. The tire lost all it's air overnight so I assumed it would be fairly noticable but I guess not.
The way this reads it sounds like you soaped the tire after it lost all its air. If so, do with air and also check the valve stem as suggested. Sometimes you can hear the air escaping if you put your ear down there.
Alright, I guess I take the advice of mechanics too seriously..... ???
Quote from: BastrdHK on November 05, 2009, 07:07:16 AM
A plugged moto tire is just as safe as a new one if the proper plug is used and it is installed correctly. I have ridden several thousand miles on plugged tires. The bike will let you know immediately if your tire pressure is below about 20psi. It handles like a truck and will not want to turn. Tires are constructed in a manner that prevents a catastrophic blowout. If they do lose pressure it is in a very controlled, predictable manner.
Use Slime in an emergency(fix a flat is extremely messy and practically useless)
Patch a tire properly by removing it from the rim and plugging it with a mushroom type plug.
The expense of doing this maybe better spent on a new tire, but that is your decision.
P.S. ***I am only speaking from experience with rear tires, and would not ride on any front tire in which the internal construction had been compromised.***
Well if your doing it for sombody else then yea do all that stuff you don't want it coming back to the shop for that. But for your own tire just plug it and ride it.
Quote from: gregrnel on November 05, 2009, 03:07:59 PM
Alright, I guess I take the advice of mechanics too seriously..... ???
The point is there is an inherent amount of risk in everything we do. In your opinion and based on your experience the amount of risk in this particular case is higher than mine. I am providing information based on my experience.
I have ridden a flat tire until the bead actually separated from the rim in an effort to reach a less remote area. Safe...no....doable in an emergency yes. For what its worth, I did not put a scratch on the rim and I'm loyal to Michelin for their excellent construction. I still have the tire if anyone wants to see pictures. It is quite amazing 8)
Pics pics. [clap] [popcorn]
I went to the track this morning, rode (by myself) for over 30 min. On a plugged Pilot, then rode to Santa Fe, NM (about 110 round trip).
What a day...What a tire.
I have never had a problem with them, but it is just my experience. I'm sure there are bad stories, I just don't have one.
Ride in peace and you'll ride safe.
See ya down the road :)
Just another data point; I was debating exactly this question (though with a much newer Pirelli than the OP; dude, it's a ragged-out, squared off tire, just replace it!) and heard from another fellow on the ST owners list who had a catastrophic failure with a plugged tire. And posted pictures:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/st2_owners/photos/album/454631978/pic/1471956420/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/st2_owners/photos/album/454631978/pic/1471956420/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc)
I bit the bullet and replaced the tire. For me, riding the bike at anything approaching my (admittedly limited) capabilities simply wouldn't have been fun with nagging questions about the integrity of my tire in my head. For me, I ride because I enjoy it, so don't like things that get in the way of that. YMMV.
Quote from: triangleforge on November 06, 2009, 03:02:45 PMhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/st2_owners/photos/album/454631978/pic/1471956420/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/st2_owners/photos/album/454631978/pic/1471956420/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc)
Only members of that group can see your link. ;)
I plugged my squared, balding tire and was fine. I did replace the tire relative soon though. I'm just saying, after riding awhile I had all confidence in the plug. YMMV, and don't blame me if you blow up
Quote from: gregrnel on November 05, 2009, 03:07:59 PM
Alright, I guess I take the advice of mechanics too seriously..... ???
I *was* a mechanic.
I *am* a mechanic
Last year I had a flat, and plugged it to get home. Then came the same dilemma you are in, new tire or ride a plugged tire? Although every mechanic I know of suggest replacing the tire, not one person could ever tell me of an instance where a plug has failed. I rode it and all was good.
Quote from: somegirl on November 06, 2009, 03:26:40 PM
Only members of that group can see your link. ;)
I was afraid that might be the case... I got the owner's permission to post, and did so below.
Though a tire with a proper mushroom plug is not likely to fail, if it does the failure may not be a slow leak like the initial puncture. Keep in mind what you are dealing with. The original puncture was probably partially sealed with whatever punctured the tire. Dry wall screws seal pretty damn good. The puncture is also usually reamed out to accommodate the plug. If the plug totally fails the leak will not be small, it will be more like a blowout. Though this is unlikely (the idea behind a mushroom plug) it can happen.
Dunlop's tire repair advice:
Some punctures in motorcycle tires may be repaired.
Dunlop recommends only permanent plug-patch repairs of small (maximum 1/4-inch diameter) tread area punctures from within the dismounted tire by a qualified tire repair shop or motorcycle dealer. Never perform an exterior repair and never use an inner tube as a substitute for a proper repair. Speed should not exceed 50 mph for the first 24 hours after repair and the repaired tire should never be used over 75 mph. Check inflation pressure after tire cools for at least three (3) hours following run-in, or sooner if air loss is suspected.
No form of temporary repair should be attempted because secondary damage caused by a penetrating object may not be detected and tire or tube deflation may occur at a later date.
Dunlop does not recommend the use of liquid sealants. These are a form of temporary repair, and they may adversely affect ply material and mask secondary damage caused by a penetrating object. Reliance upon sealants can result in sudden tire failure and accident.
The red was done by me. If you are paying someone to repair your partially worn out squared off tire you may be better off investing in a new tire.
I would be more worried about the squared off evil handling tire than a plug. Didn't he say the front was dodgy too?
Again -- this is just one person's experience (I'm glad it wasn't mine). I asked a similar question on the ST owners list, and got permission to post these photos that went with this description:
The pictures are of Gary's rear tire on his old ST4 that he used in
endurance rallies in 2001.
Gary wrote, "I got a nail puncture, very clean in the meat of the
tread dead center in the tire, a Bridgestone 020, Plugged it with the
gummy wormy thing and took off. Checked the tire for leaks twice over
about 200 miles, and it was holding perfectly. About 100 miles later,
at 4 a.m. on I 94 west of Fargo, North Dakota, I was whipping along
toward the checkpoint when all hell broke loose. I still can't believe
I held the bike up. When I brought it to a stop I just stepped off and
the bike stayed up. There was no warning, only a very brief wabble,
then assholes slamming shut. Losing a plug is an very serious matter.
Tire looks like someone sliced it up with a band saw. Anyone riding on
a plugged tire should examine these pics at length."
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/4084104490_b6e3ab643f.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/4084104542_3fe8c75673.jpg)
I know that the mushroom plugs are preferable to the "gummy worm" type, but still. For me, it just wasn't as much fun riding with a plugged tire, because it was there in my head, usually at the moments when the tires were working hardest. I probably wouldn't have a problem riding a professionally-repaired back tire with a patch on the inside. You should do whatever you're comfortable doing.
Wow, never had that happen. But that begs the question how does a small puncture that you fill with a plug cause a catastrophic blowout like that? Seems Odd.
^^^ Agreed....from the damage to the side wall I would say it was being ridden deflated and it failed where the most flex/heat occurred. Likely, since the guy was doing long distance runs on Interstates at relatively high speed. He never would've noticed the tire was deflated until he tried to change lanes/turn or it went POP.
I dislike plugging tires, but will do it on occasion to limp the bike back home, but prefer to limp a slow leaker home without a plug. Once home, I pull the tire off and patch it from the inside. I never have any issues with a patched tire. I once bought a tire with less than 200 miles for $5. The tire was plugged, but the previous owner decided against running it. I trimmed the plug portion that was sticking inside the tire, put a patch over the area, and ran it until it was bald (and the plug never came out).
I had a buddy of mine plug his tire last year, the first one didn't hold, but the second one did. He rode it about 15 miles and the plug blew out of the tire and he wound up stranded on the side of the road. In all honesty, though, I don't think he knew what he was doing when he was installing the plug. The largest reason I dislike plugs is that I don't like the idea of using the rasp to make a small hole a lot larger, and I'm quite sure that the rasp doesn't do anything positive to the cords.
BTW, I once patched a tire twice, only to throw it away when I caught the third nail in it, but the tire was almost slick by then, anyway. ;)
Man lots of varying opinions in here...
I'm not sure where my tire is leaking from but I have a suspicion it's the valve core. The reason I suspect the core is the tire had no problems until one night I checked pressures/added air. Rode it that night, parked it, and the next morning it was DEAD FLAT. Filled it up to 40 lbs and sprayed the entire wheel and tire down with soapy water - no bubbles anywhere and I was looking HARD. After that it held air fine. Now, after checking pressures a few more times since, it's losing about 3 lbs. per day.
I don't know what the heck is going on but I'm just going to order some new tires and hold off on my 12k service I guess. Can't afford both right now. :(
Quote from: Shifty on November 09, 2009, 07:46:48 AMI'm not sure where my tire is leaking from but I have a suspicion it's the valve core. The reason I suspect the core is the tire had no problems until one night I checked pressures/added air. Rode it that night, parked it, and the next morning it was DEAD FLAT. Filled it up to 40 lbs and sprayed the entire wheel and tire down with soapy water - no bubbles anywhere and I was looking HARD. After that it held air fine. Now, after checking pressures a few more times since, it's losing about 3 lbs. per day.
We recently had a slow leak on a car tire, lost about 6 PSI per day. We jacked it up and sprayed the whole thing with soapy water, including the valve stem, and couldn't find the leak.
Since the car was still under warranty I took it to the dealer. They first told me the pressure was fine so they didn't think there was any issue (I had refilled it that morning before driving there), next they told me that my leak was because the cap was off the valve (we were leaving it off to make it easier to fill every day). [roll]
Anyway, after I gave them what-for on the phone, they took the wheel off and on the 3rd try in the dunk tank, they found a hairline crack in the rim and replaced it under the warranty.
Just another data point for something to look out for.
Quote from: somegirl on November 09, 2009, 08:00:26 AM
We recently had a slow leak on a car tire, lost about 6 PSI per day. We jacked it up and sprayed the whole thing with soapy water, including the valve stem, and couldn't find the leak.
<snip>
Anyway, after I gave them what-for on the phone, they took the wheel off and on the 3rd try in the dunk tank, they found a hairline crack in the rim and replaced it under the warranty.
This reminded me of an issue I had a few years ago with a tire leaking. Some days the tire held air fine, and other days it would drop 10-15 psi overnight. I fought it for a few weeks until it finally stopped. My theory is that there was a small piece of dirt that was hanging out around the valve seal. Some days the dirt would interfere with the valve seating and other times it wouldn't. Eventually, it must have broken free and was either blown into the tire while refilling it or blown out with escaping air.
I once had an opposite issue.....I couldn't put air into the tire. That wound up being the metal pin for the valve had gotten bent, so when I pushed it down with the air hose, it wouldn't break the seal and didn't allow air into the tire. I was running the compressor at 40-60 psi, so maybe I should have bumped it up to 120+ and just forced the valve open. [laugh]
Quote from: somegirl on November 09, 2009, 08:00:26 AM
We recently had a slow leak on a car tire, lost about 6 PSI per day. We jacked it up and sprayed the whole thing with soapy water, including the valve stem, and couldn't find the leak.
Since the car was still under warranty I took it to the dealer. They first told me the pressure was fine so they didn't think there was any issue (I had refilled it that morning before driving there), next they told me that my leak was because the cap was off the valve (we were leaving it off to make it easier to fill every day). [roll]
Anyway, after I gave them what-for on the phone, they took the wheel off and on the 3rd try in the dunk tank, they found a hairline crack in the rim and replaced it under the warranty.
Just another data point for something to look out for.
And that explains why you are a carrot that looks like a hummingbird now!?!
[cheeky]
Quote from: D on November 09, 2009, 08:40:08 AM
And that explains why you are a carrot that looks like a hummingbird now!?!
;D
Thanks for the various thoughts in this post. I punctured my rear tire yesterday and repaired it with a mushroom plug to get me home. I was going to just have the tire patched internally, but after reading this and looking at the proximity of the wear bars on the tire, I opted for a new one.
That being said, I repaired a few punctures in car tires that were later used on the track and never had a problem with the plugs failing (the gluey-wormy type).