I'm sure everyone has heard of Tiger's single car accident with a fire plug and a tree in his own yard. Why on earth was he ticketed? Why on earth why would he even report it?
If I lost control of my truck when backing into my driveway and took out my fence, am I obligated to call the cops?
What if I loose control of my truck and strike a tree alongside the road and am able to drive away or at least able to recover the vehicle on my own. Am I obligated to notify the authorities?
In my youth (20 years ago) I overshot a corner on 89A between Sedona and Flagstaff in a Saab 900 turbo going way too fast. I spun out and hit a cliff totaling the car. I never called the cops. I called my insurance company and a tow truck. The car sat on the shoulder overnight. Did I break the law?
Quote from: angler on December 01, 2009, 10:23:49 AM
I'm sure everyone has heard of Tiger's single car accident with a fire plug and a tree in his own yard. Why on earth was he ticketed? Why on earth why would he even report it?
If I lost control of my truck when backing into my driveway and took out my fence, am I obligated to call the cops?
What if I loose control of my truck and strike a tree alongside the road and am able to drive away or at least able to recover the vehicle on my own. Am I obligated to notify the authorities?
In my youth (20 years ago) I overshot a corner on 89A between Sedona and Flagstaff in a Saab 900 turbo going way too fast. I spun out and hit a cliff totaling the car. I never called the cops. I called my insurance company and a tow truck. The car sat on the shoulder overnight. Did I break the law?
The cops are involved because Tiger's neighbors called 911. Careless driving will probably cost him $250 + the cost of fixing the fire plug. Tiger just surpassed $1billion in career earnings, so I don't think this $250 ticket will make a big dent in his pocketbook.
I suspect that there's a bit more to this story than "Tiger recklessly backed out of his driveway" -- it was likely some sort of domestic disturbance. Lots of conjecture now on how his wife may have been chasing him down the driveway with a driver and smashed the windows while he was makin' a getaway. The ever-reliable National Enquirer has already claimed Woods is gettin' some on the side with a NY night club hostess. In general, though, this whole thing will be swept under the rug soon.
If you lost control of your car and did some property damage as a result, you'd certainly be liable for the cost of fixing whatever you broke. Hitting a cliff? Not much to be liable for in that scenario, as long as no one is hurt. [laugh]
Didn't your insurance co. want a police report when you totaled your car?
Quote from: angler on December 01, 2009, 10:23:49 AM
I'm sure everyone has heard of Tiger's single car accident with a fire plug and a tree in his own yard. Why on earth was he ticketed? Why on earth why would he even report it?
it might have something to do with being unconscious and needing an ambulance ride to the hospital.
Good editorial about the Tiger episode on espn.com:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4700875&sportCat=golf (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4700875&sportCat=golf)
Quote from: bluemoco on December 01, 2009, 10:44:29 AM
Didn't your insurance co. want a police report when you totaled your car?
Nope. I didn't call the insurance until I hitched a ride back to my house. They didn't care. The agent actually coached me to get a tow truck down there before the car was flagged or ticketed. I actually made like $3k when they totaled it.
Quote from: derby on December 01, 2009, 10:44:37 AM
it might have something to do with being unconscious and needing an ambulance ride to the hospital.
That changes things. I did not know he was unconscious.
Running over a fire hydrant probably gets the police called as well.
To my point then, are you only required to call the cops if you damage property that is not yours?
Quote from: angler on December 01, 2009, 11:05:53 AM
To my point then, are you only required to call the cops if you damage property that is not yours?
I would say
public property. If you run into your neighbor's house there is no need to call the cops if your neighbor is OK with not doing so.
Quote from: angler on December 01, 2009, 10:59:44 AM
I actually made like $3k when they totaled it.
So, You made money off of the insurance co. for being irresponsible?. ???
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 01, 2009, 11:38:00 AM
So, You made money off of the insurance co. for being irresponsible?. ???
Book value of the car when I totaled it was $6500. I bought the car for $3500 about 6 months before. Nothing shady there, just mad negotiating skills at time of purchase.
Don't tell me you never drove too fast for conditions when you were 19......
Quote from: angler on December 01, 2009, 11:49:28 AM
Don't tell me you never drove too fast for conditions when you were 19......
Never said that, but I never ran off the road and totaled a car, left the scene of an at fault accident and let the insurance co. pay for my mistake.
I don't think hitting a tree needs to involve the police in any way.
I've dropped a bike before, due to being young(er) and stupid(er) and since nobody else was involved and I wasn't seriously hurt I saw no reason to deal with the hassle and paperwork and invasion of privacy.
And as long as insurance provides coverage on the basis of assumed value and not purchase price, the possibility of someone profiting from the arrangement is a business risk they face.
Quote from: zarn02 on December 01, 2009, 12:06:57 PM
And as long as insurance provides coverage on the basis of assumed value and not purchase price, the possibility of someone profiting from the arrangement is a business risk they face.
+1
Besides, insurance companies screw people over all the time when it comes to assumed value of a vehicle. They couldn't care less what you owe, or paid...just what they think it is worth.
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 01, 2009, 12:01:00 PM
Never said that, but I never ran off the road and totaled a car, left the scene of an at fault accident and let the insurance co. pay for my mistake.
I'm not really sure WTF insurance is for then. 'Splain it to me.......
I started this thread to determine where legal responsibility lies in this case. Neither my insurance agent nor the tow truck driver thought that I had left the scene or done anything illegal. I was actually on scene for several hours trying to figure out how I was going to get home. The car was on scene for 12 hours plus. At any time I could have been issued a citation or at the very least a "get it off the shoulder" orange sticker. This was in the days before cell phones and I was 10+ miles from any pay phone. That said, I wasn't really looking to have the law involved.
How many people on this board have lowsided on a public road, shoveled the pieces into a passerby's truck and called their insurance company when they got home? How is this different?
Insurance ameliorates risk. Built into my premium are risk factors for age and type of vehicle, etc. I have paid my dues and I have never had an accident that involved another car. That is actually the only insurance claim I have ever made that didn't involve my ex-wife driving.
In Idaho I am pretty sure it's law that if the damage to the vehicle is more than $500 there needs
to be a police report filed.
At least that's what the cops told me when I was in an accident in my teens and left the scene.
Quote from: bluemoco on December 01, 2009, 10:44:29 AM
The cops are involved because Tiger's neighbors called 911. Careless driving will probably cost him $250 + the cost of fixing the fire plug. Tiger just surpassed $1billion in career earnings, so I don't think this $250 ticket will make a big dent in his pocketbook.
I suspect that there's a bit more to this story than "Tiger recklessly backed out of his driveway" -- it was likely some sort of domestic disturbance. Lots of conjecture now on how his wife may have been chasing him down the driveway with a driver and smashed the windows while he was makin' a getaway. The ever-reliable National Enquirer has already claimed Woods is gettin' some on the side with a NY night club hostess. In general, though, this whole thing will be swept under the rug soon.
If you lost control of your car and did some property damage as a result, you'd certainly be liable for the cost of fixing whatever you broke. Hitting a cliff? Not much to be liable for in that scenario, as long as no one is hurt. [laugh]
Didn't your insurance co. want a police report when you totaled your car?
I do hope it all gets swept under the rug soon. I don't have any particular opinion about Tiger Woods, and I couldn't give a shit less if he is sleeping around. These are issues between himself, his wife, and (maybe) his (alleged) "other woman."
If he wants to take a "careless driving" citation then so be it. He could probably fight it in court if he wanted to admit that he was being chased by his golf club-wielding wife. That seems unlikely. [roll]
Barring any admission that someone else was responsible for his questionable driving, I'd say he's liable to pay for the repairs.
That done, he should tell the press to piss off, 'cause we don't need to know.
Quote from: zarn02 on December 01, 2009, 01:10:55 PM
That done, he should tell the press to piss off, 'cause we don't need to know.
Like that ESPN columnist said "... where some athletes provide total media access, Woods grants glimpses into his personal life in teaspoon-sized portions. He is the Kim Jong-Il of sports: viewable, but impenetrable."
Once he's paid his citation, he's going to go underground for awhile.
Quote from: zarn02 on December 01, 2009, 01:10:55 PM
...he should tell the press to piss off, 'cause we don't need to know.
agreed. especially since no one (but he+maybe wife) know what actually happened. maybe he has narcolepsy...
now,......if it turns out that his career is threatened by this (because its some debilitating disease or such) then stop the press.
Quote from: zarn02 on December 01, 2009, 01:10:55 PM
That done, he should tell the press to piss off, 'cause we don't need to know.
Somehow, I don't think that's going to quite do it for the sponsors who've paid millions on top of millions to associate their products the pre-crash Tiger image. Maybe it's not fair, but it's part of the deal and he knows it better than anyone.
Quote from: triangleforge on December 01, 2009, 05:57:15 PM
Somehow, I don't think that's going to quite do it for the sponsors who've paid millions on top of millions to associate their products the pre-crash Tiger image. Maybe it's not fair, but it's part of the deal and he knows it better than anyone.
True, the sponsors have a keen interest in Tiger's image.
At this point, though, the only thing he did is have a minor traffic accident. He's going to be fined $164 and get 4 points on his driving record. Unless something else surfaces, a traffic accident and some rumored infidelity are not going to cause the sponsors to pull the plug on him.
The man's goin' into a serious "lockdown" mode now. He's going to lay low, stay quiet, and wait for this storm to blow over.
it makes sense he would get a ticket, afterall we hear stories on the board
about people crashing with no other vehicles, and basically going off the road then the police write up the person "because they have to" for losing control of their vehicle even if it waws because there was oil in the raod, etc.
that is why tiger should get the ticket,a ftarll he actually hit and damaged thing. so the cop should have to "write him up because he has to write it for somthing" as other have mentioned in the past.
In the state of Ohio, if you are involved in an accident, you do not need to involve the authorities at all.
You just need to exchange insurance information, DL numbers, and that is about it.
But as was said.....someone called 911.
Interested if he can get ticketed considering he lives in a PRIVATE community probably with their own security detail.
If anything, the association could possibly fine him.
I think what the cops want to know if there was some domestic violence involved....which is highly rumored.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on December 02, 2009, 06:00:33 AM
Interested if he can get ticketed considering he lives in a PRIVATE community probably with their own security detail.
If anything, the association could possibly fine him.
Roads are public, whether in a private community or not. He also ran over a fire hydrant...another piece of public property whether in a private community or not.
The hydrant damage doomed him for the cops having to be called. If he would have just hit a tree, then no reason to call anyone.
The domestic violence thing is a whole different issue...and like you said, may have been the
actual reason the cops were called.
Looks like there is more info emerging from Tiger himself: He's issued a statement indicating he has made some 'transgressions'. Yet another woman is coming forward with details of a relationship in Us Magazine.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/02/tiger.woods/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29 (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/02/tiger.woods/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29)
That might explain why his (hot) wife was upset. [laugh]
Quote from: Triple J on December 02, 2009, 06:41:32 AM
Roads are public, whether in a private community or not. He also ran over a fire hydrant...another piece of public property whether in a private community or not.
I don't agree.
I live in a private community.
The city doesn't plow my roads.
they are private.
Now, there is probably an agreement in place which gives the Police authorization.
You can own a shopping center and have it 100% private or you can sign an agreement with the local PD to allow them to patrol, etc.
We had a recent issue where someone was involved in a car accident in a hospital parking lot, private proper. Local Police would not fill out an accident form as they said no jurisdiction. Can't recall what state.
I am sure Tiger's 'hood has an armed guard and security vehicles. 24x7
Local PD here will do a police report, but will not issue a citation, on private property (parking lots, etc).
Quote from: cyrus buelton on December 02, 2009, 06:52:21 AM
I don't agree.
I live in a private community.
The city doesn't plow my roads.
they are private.
Commercial parking lots are a different story, as are cond/apt parking lots. They are not subject to local traffic laws, and you can't get a ticket in them. They are not streets, just parking lots.
Streets on the other hand are subject to local traffic laws. All streets.
All developments are on private land. The developer buys the land, and puts houses on it. When designing the subdivision, be it gated (i.e. private) or not, the developer must comply with local ordinances regarding roads, open space, etc. Although the roads are technically on the private land, they are given to the city upon completion, and are subject to their inspection during construction. Same goes for all of the utilities (i.e. water sewer, storm drain).
It is irrelevant if your streets aren't plowed.
The only places in the United States where local law enforcement has no jurisdiction of any kind is in our national parks.
irrelevant fact #2 - tiger would not have been living in that community if the house he bought from my great aunt had not burned down. [thumbsup]
Quote from: herm (not herb) on December 02, 2009, 10:56:05 AM
The only places in the United States where local law enforcement has no jurisdiction of any kind is in our national parks.
irrelevant fact #2 - tiger would not have been living in that community if the house he bought from my great aunt had not burned down. [thumbsup]
(http://phoenixdiversions.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg)
Quote from: Triple J on December 02, 2009, 07:11:28 AM
Commercial parking lots are a different story, as are cond/apt parking lots. They are not subject to local traffic laws, and you can't get a ticket in them. They are not streets, just parking lots.
Streets on the other hand are subject to local traffic laws. All streets.
All developments are on private land. The developer buys the land, and puts houses on it. When designing the subdivision, be it gated (i.e. private) or not, the developer must comply with local ordinances regarding roads, open space, etc. Although the roads are technically on the private land, they are given to the city upon completion, and are subject to their inspection during construction. Same goes for all of the utilities (i.e. water sewer, storm drain).
It is irrelevant if your streets aren't plowed.
Highlight added - While what you've described is typically the case, it isn't always true. It is entirely dependent on the locality, the utility, and the development.
The municipality that I work for allows private drives that are not required to be dedicated to the public in any way. These drives are often identified as access easements, and convey access rights only to the listed parties â€" utility providers, emergency services, government vehicles, and residents and invited guests. It's basically a big shared driveway, and not a public road at all. If Tiger's subdivision is as super-exclusive as the press would lead one to believe, it is quite possible that what would appear to be a typical road is not right-of-way and therefore, not open to the public at all.
Likewise, we also deal with private utility providers. The water lines in several of our subdivisions are property of a collective (a water utility started by the developer specifically to serve the developments when the public utilities in the area couldn't provide water). This collective has many of the rights that a public utility would have, but isn't required to serve anyone based on typical utility provision statutes. And since it's within one of those goofy subdivisions with the private roads, the lines and hydrants are in easements too â€" not within public right of way, and not in any way public property.
So, even though it's rare, it's possible that Tiger ran over a private hydrant on a private drive and not public property on a public road.
While being chased by his furious,golf-club wielding smokin'-hot Norwegian supermodel wife.
Because he had an affair.
With the hair-pullin', cheap-shottin' University of New Mexico soccer babe.
BOOSH!
Man, I learn so much here.
I now know more than I've ever known on the topic of roads in private residential areas.
Well, at least Tiger came clean today.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34174324/ns/sports-golf/ (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34174324/ns/sports-golf/)
This ones good. ;)
http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464036 (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464036)
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 02, 2009, 02:49:51 PM
This ones good. ;)
http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464036 (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464036)
Has it been 100% verified that is his voicemail?
Last I heard on ESPN radio is they couldn't confirm his voice being the caller.
However, it does mesh with the situation.....
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches.aspx?post=1417383&_blg=1,1417383 (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches.aspx?post=1417383&_blg=1,1417383)
http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10493220/Tiger-to-take-indefinite-break-from-golf-?GT1=39002 (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10493220/Tiger-to-take-indefinite-break-from-golf-?GT1=39002)
http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/tiger-woods-loses-another-sponsor (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/tiger-woods-loses-another-sponsor)
meh [roll]