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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/epa-holds-off-on-greater-use-of-ethanol-in-gas-2009-12-01 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/epa-holds-off-on-greater-use-of-ethanol-in-gas-2009-12-01)

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Environmental Protection Agency said Tuesday that it'll make a formal decision next year on whether to allow a15% blend of ethanol in domestic gasoline, after initial tests showed that cars can run on the fuel.

We know how E10 hasn't adversely affected any motorcycle fuel tanks or affected low rpm performance causing stalls at stoplights, so why not up the blend percentage!  [roll]

In tallahassee fl they had a gas station that had E15. I ran it in a M900 fine. But i had an aluminum tank.

that is really stupid...  >:(

The stalling is with the latest crop of Euro 3 emissions standard bikes.

This just in: No one cares about motorcycles. More at 11.

havent tried E15 with my S2R1k. so i cant tell. But E15 will raise gas prices up. ethanol is not cheap.

It will eventually eat your aluminum fuel tank away -- I'm personally seeing it happen in the vintage racecar market with cars with aluminum fuel tanks.  All now are needing coated (POR-15 or similiar) or replaced.  All aluminum motorcycle gastanks will have the same problem as well until internally coated.

As for the new fuels?  Anyone else noticed that as these "new and improved" fuels appear, the gas mileage actually goes down due to the molecular composition and additives formulated.  I've been talking with a lot of the old time racecar engine builders and they are amazed at how horrible the stuff we now call "gasoline" is.  At this rate, maybe @15 more years and none of our old cars / motorcycles will even run on it anymore...

Ethanol is a poor fuel for another reason not mentioned above. All ethanol is currently made from corn. This has raised the cost of corn to such a point that people in Mexico were near rioting because they couldn't afford it. Mexico has been dependent on US corn for a very lond time. Bad idea to make the problem worse, especially since it is harmfull to the vehicles the fuel is intended for.

The only reason this is happening is the shocking overabundance of commodity corn being grown due to farm subsidies keeping the prices artificially low. It is a vicious cycle where the farmers must grow more corn to break even due to the deflating price, which is then deflated further due to the farmers growing more of the same crop. In nature if there is an available biomass, it must be consumed. E15 is just one more way to consume the surplus of commodity corn. Also see grain fed beef, and soon to come, grain fed fish!!!

so it has nothing to do with corn being cheaper than oil?

thank your politicians and lobbyists. science is put on the back burner for $$$.

Isnt a gallon of E100 is MORE expensive than a gallon of gasoline. But Crude oil makes more then just gasoline so its worth a lot more too.

I say this because straight gasoline is cheaper than e10 gasoline but im not sure if its due to taxes and eco laws.

i'd be fine if we just switched all consumer road-going 4-wheel vehicles to diesel. motorcycles are getting marginilized in the fuel equation when there are millions of toyotas and chevrolets per motorcycle; and the moto community is not equally effected - harley riders have steel tanks and such, which will likely be less effected, without that large segment of potential complainers, we are quite a small voice.

This article states that the decision has been delayed until mid-June of next year.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/01/feds-punt-on-e15-waiver-decision/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/01/feds-punt-on-e15-waiver-decision/)

I'll refrain from any comments on the issue.

I disagree. Farmers have been subsidized for many years TO NOT grow crops, especially corn. When Bush mandated that all Ethanol fuel be made from corn, the price of corn quadrupled, thus causing problems in Mexico. Possibly your sugestion was the idea behind it, but ethanol doesn't even break even of the manfactoring cost at the previously low price. Which is why ethanol fuel produducers have been government subsidized to get the e85 price lower than RUG. Bad plan IMHO. Especially when there are crops such as switch grass, and even sugar cane leftovers which produce more ethanol per acre than corn. Also, corn is not environmentally friendly. It takes more pesticides, fertilizer and water to produce than MOST other crops as well as the fact that it takes more diesel per acre than the ethanol the corn produces. E10/E15/E85 is all bogus until they are no longer using a wastefull food crop to make it.

agree, switchgrass for the win

must resist being dragged into this debate.  >:(

Plenty of time to send one's experiences with E10 make the beast with two backsing up motorcycle fueling systems to the EPA.

Ethanol is cheaper to produce than gasoline.

I work in Research and Development with fuel filtration. I can tell you that Bio Fuels are a nightmare to work with. Very inefficient (lower mpg, engine runs hotter, etc), way too expensive to produce, inconsistently produced, do not work in cold environments, grow unwanted organic pests easily, nearly impossible to seperate water from, and wreak havoc on new diesel engines with tighter tolerances and high pressure fuel injection systems. These fuels are a nightmare for filtration companies.  [bang]

It's purely political that we are being forced to use it more and more. It is a very bad idea. The bottom line is this...there is no magic bullet when it comes to alternative energy. There is a trade off with everything. I won't get too political here but, being forced into these alternative enegry plans are feeding an agenda that is to make money. We are not told about the consequences of switching to these magic bullet ideas, but rest assured, there are consequences.  [thumbsup]

I think there is a similar problem with pure electric, battery based cars. batteries aren't exactly enviro-friendly, and there are still quite a bit of resources being used when its plugged into the wall to charge.

That's what I'm talking about.   [beer]

We all need a few barrels of race fuel in the garage...

in short.. by june of next year, us plastic-tank guys will be fuxored.

Is it doing anything to the carbon fiber tank guys?

I think that was a bit of a broad statement. First off, since the cetane rating is generaly lower for Biodiesel, the engine runs cooler. I have experienced this in my car. As far as fuel economy goes, negligable difference if any. Methyl Esters are fantastic solvents and keep the fuel system clean. This is a problem with older vehicles which have alot of diesel residue in the fuel system because all the deposits end up in the filter for a few filter changes(took my 83 300SD three pre filters and one primary filter). But after the inititional filter probems my car ran better than it did when I bought it. My car likes to eat veggie. :D As far as newer vehicles are concerned, by mandate all 98 and up diesel vehicles must be made to run on B100 safely. This is why modern diesels have synthetic fuel lines instead of rubber. And lastly, no, it cost less to produce soy biodiesel...barely. However, that is old technology(1960s). The new bio crop is algae(you can do a search on google and see for your self). In New Zealand they are making biodiesel from the algae which is already growing in reclaimed water. The algae is the first step in purifying the water(removes organig material), the algae must then be removed or it affects the taste of the water. This step was already being done to clean water, the algae is free. The next step is simple, the algae is either dried and pressed, or just run through a water/oil separator centrifuge. The lipids can then be converted to biodiesel. This can be done all over the earth. The algae is just waste if it isn't used. Saying biofuels are no good is just, inacurate at best.

Also the newest technology is Syndiesel which is produced through the gasifacation of organic material or methane gashttp://www.syndiesel.com/. We throw away tons and tons solid organic waste every day, which releases tons of methane gas. Syndiesel has higher cetane than Petrodiesel, lower gel point than petrodiesel(-60f), higher lubricity than petro/biodiesel, higher BTUs than petrodiesel, and a higher flashpoint than than biodiesel. It is a safe, clean efficient and rezilient fuel. Not all biofuels are bad. There is also ethanol being produced through gasifacation. That is the next step with spark ignition engines, but I still prefere compression ignition.

where did you get this information?

my 2005 VW TDI will not run higher than B5, or I void my warranty according to VW.

http://tdi.vw.com/vw-warrants-b5/ (http://tdi.vw.com/vw-warrants-b5/)

Oops...your right. I just looked it up at biodiesel.org. I must have misread that somewhere less reputable. it is b5 compatability that was mandated.

where was this done?  I have heard/read nothing about it being "mandated" -- by whom?  EPA?  DOT?  CARB?

I can't find the link I was looking for anymore(not biodiesel.org). I can find references to all diesels after 92 no longer using rubber lines. That may have been due to the change to LSD(low sulpher diesel). It sounds like VW is being overly carefull with the higher pressure ingectors of the newer models, I hadn't heard of that before. I know at least one person, personally who is running B100 in a 2008 VW with no problems. Sucks about the warranty.

Ethanol is a huge industry here in MN.  We even have 350 stations that sell E85, and the state wanted to have 1800 by 2010.  However, the demand just isn't there, and that goal is very unlikely to be achieved.

Many of our ethanol producers are going bankrupt.  Among the largest is Verasun, which operates ethanol refineries across the midwest.

I have a fundamental disagreement with the concept of using a food source (corn) as a fuel.  That's all I'm gonna say about that.   ???

This is important because methane is more than twentyfold worse a greenhouse gas than CO2 will ever be.

Stick that in your carbon footprint!

A couple more things to ponder.  From today's Wall Street Journal:

"Monday's monthly report from the DOE revised overall (U.S. oil) demand in September down by more than half a million barrels a day. At 18.4 million barrels, it was up on a year before, but comparisons with the month when Lehman Brothers collapsed tend to flatter. Demand in September 2007 was 20.4 million barrels a day.

Domestic production of oil has actually risen by about 450,000 barrels a day in the past year. Stocks at Cushing, Okla., the reference point for the Nymex West Texas Intermediate oil benchmark, are more than a third higher than last year. Stocks of distillate, including diesel, fell, but remain 30% above the five-year average. Refiners are chugging along at a low utilization rate of about 80%."

Yep, and all that methane can be contained and used to produce Syndiesel, as well as the garbage creating it.

Probably due to people shopping less because of the economy. Less goods=less diesel trucks/trains/airplanes.

YEAH!! make the beast with two backs YOU TACO BELL!!

[laugh]

Now ponder this: one of the largest source of man made methane are rice paddies. ;D I am on the green side of this discussion, but that is a great argument to anyone who worries about vehicle emmissions.

Methane Charts http://www.ghgonline.org/aboutmethane.htm (http://www.ghgonline.org/aboutmethane.htm)