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Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: angler on January 06, 2010, 08:18:27 AM

Title: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: angler on January 06, 2010, 08:18:27 AM
I'm remodeling my house and need to run some cat 5 from my office to the living room downstairs.  I plan on putting a media PC in the entertainment console and it will be networked.  While I have the walls open, I want to hardwire the entertainment PC with my office PC. 

Should I be concerned about run length?  The run will probably be less than 30 feet.  Thanks in advance......
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: r_ciao on January 06, 2010, 08:28:30 AM
i'm no IT pro, but just buy quality CAT5 cable and don't worry about it.  i have run lengths that are probably 50+ feet running in my walls.  it's structured wiring and is combined in a bunch with two coax and another run of CAT5.  30 feet is nuthin'. think about large offices that run lengths much greater.  i'm sure you'll be o.k.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: angler on January 06, 2010, 08:31:14 AM
Quote from: r_ciao on January 06, 2010, 08:28:30 AM
i'm no IT pro, but just buy quality CAT5 cable and don't worry about it.  i have run lengths that are probably 50+ feet running in my walls.  it's structured wiring and is combined in a bunch with two coax and another run of CAT5.  30 feet is nuthin'. think about large offices that run lengths much greater.  i'm sure you'll be o.k.

That is what I figured, but figured I'd run it by this group of experts!  Thanks. 
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: JEFF_H on January 06, 2010, 08:31:47 AM
CAT5 limit is 100m (328 ft)

(ha! i beat derby)
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: cduarte on January 06, 2010, 08:39:44 AM
agreed on the quality cat5 stuff, what you specifically need to look for is cat5e, which is better quality. Again, for a 30ft run, you don't need to worry too much though.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: JEFF_H on January 06, 2010, 08:55:53 AM
best source- http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp (http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp)
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: Raux on January 06, 2010, 09:02:07 AM
isn't the new 802.11N wireless fast enough for your needs?
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: angler on January 06, 2010, 09:07:10 AM
I'm sure it is and I will run wireless.  But, since I have the walls open and need to add an outlet and coax to the area where the entertainment center will be, I figure why not run some cat5 too.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: cduarte on January 06, 2010, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: JEFF_H on January 06, 2010, 08:55:53 AM
best source- http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp (http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp)


or, you can just go to home despot and they'll have everything you need.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: 77south on January 06, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
Make sure to get plenum rated cable.  It has a  much higher ignition temperature, and would be safer in the event of a house fire.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: derby on January 06, 2010, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: JEFF_H on January 06, 2010, 08:31:47 AM
CAT5 limit is 100m (328 ft)

(ha! i beat derby)

;D
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: VisceralReaction on January 06, 2010, 10:24:53 AM
While you run the cable be careful too, to not kink the cable and pinch it.
Can cause problems.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: angler on January 06, 2010, 10:29:12 AM
Quote from: VisceralReaction on January 06, 2010, 10:24:53 AM
While you run the cable be careful too, to not kink the cable and pinch it.
Can cause problems.

Right.  I'm guessing I can't hang my 270 pound girth on it either like I can with romex when it gets hung up in the wall cavity!
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: barkertodd on January 06, 2010, 10:29:33 AM
Just my two cents, if your going to the effort of running wire, I'd run cat6 and future-proof yourself. Cost is almost the same but it will support higher speeds than cat5. I've been running wireless n in my house and it works ok when I stream from my home server, but it starts lagging when I stream off the Internet. My router supports 10/100/1000 and I tested the Internet speeds by dragging a 100ft cat6 arround the house. The streaming issues were resolved. as with anything, YMMV, good luck!
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: Mad Duc on January 06, 2010, 10:50:41 AM
Biggest difference:
ethernet = dedicated bandwidth
wireless = shared bandwidth

In a more urban area (like my place) I put my tivo & PC on ethernet.  I have 10 or so wireless networks in my area and a couple wireless devices on my network that can step on each other. In more rural areas where you only have one wireless network available it shouldn't matter. It probably doesn't matter much either way, but I like my ethernet. :)

Quote from: angler on January 06, 2010, 10:29:12 AM
Right.  I'm guessing I can't hang my 270 pound girth on it either like I can with romex when it gets hung up in the wall cavity!

You going to give it the David Carradine test?
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: mookieo2 on January 06, 2010, 10:55:43 AM
Quote from: 77south on January 06, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
Make sure to get plenum rated cable.  It has a  much higher ignition temperature, and would be safer in the event of a house fire.

Not really necessary, Its like triple the price too. I`m sure that if these couple of cat5 cables smoking from a fire are causing harm than you have a much much bigger problem.

We do A/V for large residences and are not required to run plenem cable. The last house we finished was 17k Sq ft and had about 200 cat5e wires and most runs were 100ft +.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: Raux on January 06, 2010, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Mad Duc on January 06, 2010, 10:50:41 AM
Biggest difference:
ethernet = dedicated bandwidth
wireless = shared bandwidth

In a more urban area (like my place) I put my tivo & PC on ethernet.  I have 10 or so wireless networks in my area and a couple wireless devices on my network that can step on each other. In more rural areas where you only have one wireless network available it shouldn't matter. It probably doesn't matter much either way, but I like my ethernet. :)

You going to give it the David Carradine test?

shared? only if they are running on the same channel/network. and even then most wireless now are switches not hubs, meaning that each connection is a full connection.
i mean set up your own internal and secure wireless network.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on January 06, 2010, 11:18:53 AM
I find wired networks are slightly faster and less subject to interference from other household devices. For example, when my microwave is running, my internet does not work. While this doesn't really happen all that much, it is sort of nice to have a wired connection handy.

My hosue is wireless, but I'll be adding cat 5 outlets at some point.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: mookieo2 on January 06, 2010, 11:20:37 AM
The only thing about cat6 is that most people can not punch it down and terminate to spec. If you buy the cables pre made which for this short of a run I would get the cat6 pre made to make your life easier. If you are going to buy bulk cable and terminate yourself and you are not a pro you won`t see an advantage. The tolerances are very tight to terminate to spec.

Quote from: angler on January 06, 2010, 10:29:12 AM
Right.  I'm guessing I can't hang my 270 pound girth on it either like I can with romex when it gets hung up in the wall cavity!

I think they say about 22lbs of force can potentially break it. I haven`t seen that happen yet and I`m sure me and a few people we`ve had work for us have abused it more than that.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: ducpainter on January 06, 2010, 12:20:15 PM
Quote from: JEFF_H on January 06, 2010, 08:31:47 AM
CAT5 limit is 100m (328 ft)

(ha! i beat derby)
I want to go farther.

What should I use?

I'm really surprised neither derby nor yourself didn't just tell us. ;D
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: derby on January 06, 2010, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on January 06, 2010, 12:20:15 PM
I want to go farther.

What should I use?


cheap: cat5/5e/6 and a repeater every 100m.

not cheap: fiber

Quote from: ducpainter on January 06, 2010, 12:20:15 PM

I'm really surprised neither derby nor yourself didn't just tell us. ;D


i just did.  ;D
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: ducpainter on January 06, 2010, 12:36:27 PM
all again is right in the world. 8)
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: superjohn on January 06, 2010, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Raux on January 06, 2010, 11:08:31 AM
shared? only if they are running on the same channel/network. and even then most wireless now are switches not hubs, meaning that each connection is a full connection.
i mean set up your own internal and secure wireless network.

Not to mention your biggest bottleneck is going to be your Internet uplink, which is the same speed (and much lower) than wired or wireless.

Surfing the net and casual use? Rely on wireless. It's fine.
Running a video game tournament or something like that with local connections and then certainly wired is going to be better.

Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: Rev. Millertime on January 06, 2010, 12:49:02 PM
Quote from: barkertodd on January 06, 2010, 10:29:33 AM
Just my two cents, if your going to the effort of running wire, I'd run cat6 and future-proof yourself. Cost is almost the same but it will support higher speeds than cat5. I've been running wireless n in my house and it works ok when I stream from my home server, but it starts lagging when I stream off the Internet. My router supports 10/100/1000 and I tested the Internet speeds by dragging a 100ft cat6 arround the house. The streaming issues were resolved. as with anything, YMMV, good luck!

+11tyb

I'm doing some wiring at a friends house and pulling Cat6 all over the place.  All his phone outlets are Cat6, 2 cables to every data jack and 1 cat 6 with each CATV jack (pulled two RG6 to each jack as well) I'm all about redundancy when pulling wires in a home.  Every cable is being terminated on each end (both the twisted pair and the coax) and tested as soon as we are done pulling.  Once the sheet rock is up, it's tough to replace a bad cable.   I guess it helps that my company has a data division that does a lot of commercial wiring so I have access to all necessary test equipment.

The electrician was pregnant doging this morning about all the wire I pulled, and the amount of wall space I was using up for the patch panel, switch, punch down blocks for phone and coax cabinet.  I laughed and told him: "Not everyone is happy with pulling just enough wire and leaving a birds nest for someone else to deal with."  

Quote from: superjohn on January 06, 2010, 12:42:08 PM
Not to mention your biggest bottleneck is going to be your Internet uplink, which is the same speed (and much lower) than wired or wireless.

Surfing the net and casual use? Rely on wireless. It's fine.
Running a video game tournament or something like that with local connections and then certainly wired is going to be better.



True, but I have been doing FTTP projects that run both data and video on twisted pair, so wiring the house if you have the ability while it's tore apart is not a bad idea. 
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: MendoDave on January 06, 2010, 02:03:35 PM
Quote from: 77south on January 06, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
Make sure to get plenum rated cable.  It has a  much higher ignition temperature, and would be safer in the event of a house fire.

You know, that's something Ive always been worried about. When the house is burning down and I am crawling on my hands & knees under the thick smoke toward the exit, one of my greatest fears is that the Cable in the walls might go up in flames any minute, and add to the catastrophe.

To say nothing of the worry about overheating the cable to the flashpoint while downloading a youtube video.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: Rev. Millertime on January 07, 2010, 08:17:51 AM
Most homes are filled with far more materials whose smoke will get you long before the cabling in the walls should be of any concern.  Furniture and carpet alone will put out far worse fumes than burning data cable.   I think plenum rated cable applies more to commercial applications where the area above false ceilings and and below "clean floors" (where cabling is run) is also used for air circulation in the buildings.

We recently worked on two big arse buildings for the Microsoft campus here in Fargo.  Both buildings have "clean floors" that not only house all the wiring, but also act as one big arse duct system to move air around the building.

I keep putting clean in quotes, since at the beginning of the project everyone was warned about keeping the area below the floor clean because of the air flow... by the end of the project, there was a complete mess (concrete dust, saw dust, wire trimmings, etc) under the floor.
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: derby on January 07, 2010, 09:04:16 AM
Quote from: Rev. Millertime on January 07, 2010, 08:17:51 AM
I keep putting clean in quotes, since at the beginning of the project everyone was warned about keeping the area below the floor clean because of the air flow... by the end of the project, there was a complete mess (concrete dust, saw dust, wire trimmings, etc) under the floor.

much easier to just call 'em "raised floors."
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: Rev. Millertime on January 07, 2010, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: derby on January 07, 2010, 09:04:16 AM
much easier to just call 'em "raised floors."

the general kept correcting me every time i was on site and called it a raised floor.  got used to calling it a clean floor to avoid even having to talk to the dipshit. 
Title: Re: cat 5 cable and run length
Post by: angler on January 07, 2010, 12:56:27 PM
Bought cat6 because it wasn't that much of a difference in cost.  Will fish it this weekend.