Ducati Monster Forum

It looks like I will be divesting myself of my 620.  Kiddos and kiddo-related activities have more or less put my leisure riding on the back burner for the foreseeable future.  I will probably be bikeless for a period of time, but I will likely pick up something in an SS or similar spec for mostly event-specific riding.  I am planning on some of those events being track days.

I have never been to one, so you could say I am putting cart before horse, but I am pretty much committed to either having fun on short trips, group rides, or the track with the occasional street excursion or putting riding on hold for a few years.

So, what do you like?  Monster, other naked, SS, motard?

assuming you are married to the idea of a twin, you just described the need for an SV650.

I'd say ditto on the SV. But if you really want a Duc, the 900/1000SS is a *fantastic* track bike. More torque than the SV, wheelies over the crests of hills, and they rock on rides. And like the SV, they don't have too much power to get you in trouble.

I am guessing you're right.  I put about 500 miles on a first gen SV and it was a fun 500 miles.  My only objection would be to the amount of work that would need to be put in extract maximum fun.  Gixxer forks,  minimally - the suspension on the one I rode was total mush.  Hard braking was not confidence-inspiring for the amount it nose dived.

I suppose it would help to give you an idea what I like and what I want - something that I can get on and ride comfortably a few hundred miles that has more power than the 620.  I like the GSXR 600s and 750s because the rider triangle fits me well - I also like 750s for being the middle ground between a stupid fast literbike and a manic 600.  I do like cheater bikes like the 636, and I have long lusted after the 675.  I have not ridden an 848, but it is on the list.  

Of course a faster monster is in the running, and this is really what the question comes down to - would you rather ride your monster at the track or some other bike, assuming you are compromising daily driver qualities for fun?

I would leave the Monster off the track. I've got an S4R and a 900SS, and for me the SS is the ideal compromise there: the ergos are nice for the track, the suspension is better than a stock SV, and I still get that shit-eating grin on my face from riding it. But if you can find an SV-S model with GSXR forks or upgraded internals, it'd be worth tracking...if you are comfortable with it for street duties as well.

something there is usually a steady supply of

The ones I've seen around here are mostly track-only bikes being sold by racers though. Your mileage may vary.

true.  but, depending on how much it's been mod'd, re-streeting a track bike is no big deal.

and gixxer front ends on SVs in general is not a rare thing to do.

might I also suggest finding yourself a SuperHawk 996....they can be quite entertaining and meet your needs.

Not a bad thought. They're cheap. Mine was a bit of a pig though, and it had crap suspension...even though it was revalved and resprung at RaceTech.

On the track the superhawk may have the same problem my rc51 has, it eats tires.  The heavy weight plus large torquey motor can distroy an expensive set of tire quickly.  I would sugest running a track day on your monster if you keep it.  It will give you a better idea of what you do and don't want in a track bike, there are always a few monsters at trackdays.  A SV650 is always a good choise for a track bike.

I have ridden the 620, 1000SS, SV1000S, R6 and the 675 at the track.  Without a doubt, the 675 was the most fun and easiest to get around a track quickly.  The big SV and the 1000ss are very similar in performance (sv has gsxr front and penske shock).  Both are a lot of fun and not powerful enough to get in trouble because of your right hand.

The 620, even with suspension upgrades, is not the best track tool you can find.  You have to do the same suspension upgrades on the little SV and you can find a kitted sv, depending on where you live, for $2-3K. When you fall down on the SV you can get replacement parts on the cheap.

I didn't do well with the R6 because I'm not used to spinning a bike up to 10k to get into the power band.  I can only assume, any Japanese 600 or 750 will be an excellent track choice and at the moment you can buy one for a song.

Personally, I'm not the touring type so anymore then a slab to the twisties and home is too much distance on any of these bikes.

There is always the 'Busa!!! Good luck. [moto]

Turbo-Busa ;D

With an extended swingarm.

Once you get used to it, you can go surprisingly fast on a stock SV.  It encourages smoothness and corner speed as well--smoothness to deal with the bouncy suspension, and corner speed because if you lose momentum in a corner it takes forever to get back up to speed! 

GSXR forks are a popular upgrade, but even using better springs makes a big difference.  Traxxion offers a drop-in kit with modified dampers and emulators for around $300; they also offer a cartridge kit for around $1k.  Penske is a popular choice for the rear, but there are a lot of options there as well.

If you use the stock forks, you can get adapters for GSXR calipers, but the bike has a lot of engine braking, so you may be satisfied with the stock brakes.

I'll take the practical approach. Get a bike wih farings for the track. Regardless of what it is. With that said, the 800SS is a great trackbike.

you were just in the wrong gear   [cheeky]

So you're saying you don't like to go fast?

  [evil]

 ;D

Yeah, the gp shift pattern didn't help matters.  A lifetime of 1 down and 5 up doesn't go away in a 20 minute track session.

I might be the only guy ever to go from running a 1:30 lap on a 35hp thumper to a 2:45 on a 120hp screamer.  The corner worker passed me on his bicycle on his way to lunch. [cheeky]


Unfortunately, I'm not very fast, just hella sexy! :-*

I did the same when I went from a 750SS to a 996.

Weird.

gp shift is teh gud!

ya know....I just thought for a second about the title posted by the O.P.

"Topic: What's more fun at the track? A monster or something else?"

the bike that is the most fun, is one that you are having fun with riding, no matter what it is or where...if you don't enjoy your Monster, whether on the track or street, then it isn't bike for you to be riding in the 1st place....find a bike you enjoy riding...period....and if you happen to also enjoy it in different environment as well...then even better....lets pair it down to bare essentials here since you aren't talking about racing or riding to set your hair or the world on fire....just pick a bike, sit with it, and enjoy riding the ever living piss out of it as you see fit....when you cease to enjoy riding it, then you move on to a different machine with a knowledge of exactly what you want that is different and have a very specific need and the knowledge as to why.

sorry, but the K.I.S.S. principle seems to apply here...

While there's an element of truth there, I think it's also possible to have two entirely different kinds of fun. On the track, I want a bike that turns in quick, keeps me low to the bike, and tracks through the corner well. But on the street I like to sit upright and occasionally loft the front wheel...two different bikes are perfect for that.

true, but he diluted the topic by saying he wanted a single bike to be able to do both or any and everything...and that is a task in of itself, being that generally speaking without modification, there is no perfect do it all and then some machine...so it becomes a question of what and where do you sacrifice something...whether it be in that you end up with 2 machines, or you accept certain aspects of inability of a singular machine in regards to some specific aspects of all possible and/or likely usages.

ok, Captain Pedantic.  =)

he didn't ask what's more fun.  he asked what's more fun at the track.  if you ask that question and then give me a list of more sportier ergo'd bikes, plus a monster, the answer is not-the-monster.

I don't think we disagree philosophically here.  But the question was: given a choice, what is more fun at the track?   Ultimately, what is the best compromise between ergos and performance for the type of riding I plan to do?  Is the monster big fun on the track with the added benefit of being easy to ride off of it?  Or, does the bike's shortcomings make it less than ideal for the track?

Mentioning trips may have been a bit of a curveball.  My point was that having a sore back and wrists is something I can live with every few months or so if I am buying the right bike for the type of riding I plan to do.

my Monster has been worked over and I find it comfortable for my tastes for track riding....I am not tearin up the track at AMA or even club level expert pace. Nowhere even close...but I have fun and it is easy enough for me to manuever the machine around and do my thing...but it isn't my only bike...but I could turn it into a streetbike if I absoluely needed to...

I suggest something beginning with a 7 and ending with an R :)

First let me be clear that I've never done a track day, but am seriously considering one this year, so this topic interested me. Personally I'd love to ride a Duc at the track, except for one thing, eventually it's going to get dropped and when that happens I think i'd rather be on an SV650 which would be "fairly" cheap to fix, rather than a Duc which which would be very expensive. I just think I'd have a hard time giving it everything if I was constantly worried about how much it was going to cost to fix.

You'll worry about that while on your Monster the first couple days.

Then you'll get hooked and buy a dedicated track Ducati and forget about it. I never worry about dumping the 748...it only cost me $4K, and that's what it is for.  [thumbsup]

A 748 is not a Monster! ;D 

I would gladly hustle a $4k 748 around the track.  [moto]

Let me know when you're ready to sell for $2000.

I personally have a lot more fun on my street s4rs on the track than CAsuperbikeschool's track prepped zx6.   but I'm weird.

600s are a blast, but I don't have any less fun riding the SV on the track.  It's a win-win situation: if somebody passes me, I blame it on the girls' bike; if I pass a friend, I can give them a hard time about being passed by a girls' bike.

I rode my monster on the track for a long time and loved it.

Then I got a pick up so I wasn't riding the bike to the track.

Crashed the very first time.

Figured I didn't want to be busting up my street bike...so I got a track bike.

I'm still crashing...but I'm blaming the pick up. ;D

maybe that had more to do with engine characteristics than it did ergos?

I ran my S4 twice on Streets of Willow, and loved it.

Haven't ridden anything else on the track, so....

yeah, but you naturally ride kinda dirt bike'y.  :)

oh absolutely.   

I like taking my monster to the track, but I know it would be an expensive thing to fall off of. I don't think that ever really made me cool it while I was out there, though! If you track yours, you'll find that it's easier to ride than most Japanese I4's, just because the spread of torque generally gives you a couple of gears to choose from in any given situation. Comfy, too - no hunching over like the proverbial monkey/football.

I'd also like to second that earlier comment from the guy riding the SV...you get a perverse sort of a kick riding a relatively slow bike on track while all of your buddies are out there on faster stuff. It's sick I know, but there's just nothing more fun than blowing by some noob on his brand-new R1/GSXR/1098/etc while riding something like an sv or air-cooled monster. God forgive me, but it makes me giggle every time. Plus, you get to blame your own slowness (of which I have plenty) compared to almost everyone on the lack of horsepower. You win both ways!

I love riding my S2R1000 Monster at the track. Here is a video from my last track day in Nov.

Thunderhill Track Day PTT 11-02-09 B Group (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUN5KVfCDX4#normal)

Me pretending like I belong on my SV (with damper rod forks, stock motor, stock brakes):

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3464/4000986833_5b991d3de0_o.jpg)

I'll give you my advice as a racer and lead instructor at a performance riding school. I've raced a variety of bikes and have won many class championships on the Monster below. You can set up a monster for the track but it takes a lot of work to get it right. The 2-valve Ducatis are excellent motors because they are practically bulletproof. Unless you are setting up a monster to fit in to a specific race class, it's not worth it. You will spend so much more to get it right than to just buy a bike that was built for the track.
Ask yourself what you want to get out of your track riding, then pick the bike that would be best for helping you achieve your goals. If you want to improve your skill and start learning your limits, or if you would like to be competitive someday, then get a different bike. Unless you put a lot of money into a monster, it will limit your abilities very quickly. If you want to just do a few trackdays and not really ever push hard, or have no desire to really learn performance riding, then you can put a monster on the track with minimal work, and have a fine time.
This is not meant to trash those folks that do trackdays on their monsters, I have a lot of students show up with monsters, and they do just fine. This is just practical advice from someone who has ridden a crazy big variety of bikes both on and off the track, and both for fun and competitively. I just know the limits of the bike and can tell you that it's easy to find those limits quickly. You will hear a lot of people say that they pass fast bikes on their monster but that's not because of the bike...that's all rider!
I've ridden most of your pics above and I have to say that the best bike out of that bunch is the 675 Daytona. But any of those pics would be fine choices for a trackbike. They have a lot of power that you have to take time to warm up to, but they are all very capable of taking your skill level higher with no work required initially. That's right, I said it...out of the box, you can ride any of those quickly. When you start getting faster, you will want to get your suspension set up. But you can jump on any modern middleweight, (if you are not too big) and just ride it. The only thing that is a must right away is setting the sag, then making the necessary adjustments after you ride it.
If you set up a monster, you will need to do a bit of work as soon as you start riding fast because the bike is just not made for the track. You will scrape parts, have suspension/geometry issues very quickly. If you find a race class that you like that one of the monsters is competitive in, then it's worth it. In a lot of race orgs, the 800, 900, and some even the 1000 is legal for Lightweight against SV650s. There are very few monsters that get set up for these classes, most guys set up the SS instead. I prefer the Monster chassis over the SS, but it takes a lot of work to make it competitive, and be able to ride fast.
Below is my race monster. I've put a lot into it to make it competitive. It's a 620 and it works well for it's class. In fact, it works so well, this year I used it to chase points and bumped it up to Lightweight after the SV I was on had problems. Even in the Expert class, I finished every race against the SVs way inside the top 10. But, this is because of a crazy amount of work that I've put into it. If you set one up like this for trackdays, you are either foolish or really passionate  ;)  It's just not worth it. Get a middleweight, and enjoy finding your limits instead of getting a monster and finding the bike's limits very quickly.

To everyone reading this that does trackdays on their monsters, that's great  [thumbsup] If that works for you and you're happy, then keep it up. You can make them into capable trackbikes but my point is, I think it's better to just get a bike that works for that purpose. Also, your learning curve will look much better if you are learning on a bike that is set up for the track. Good luck with your decision [beer]


(http://i45.tinypic.com/2vukol0.jpg)

I've done trackdays on my Monster and I had a lot of fun, but I certainly agree it's far from being an ideal choice for the track.  I did it because I wanted to get more comfortable on my everyday bike.

If I were to choose something only or mostly for the track, it wouldn't be a Monster.

that's exactly why the first time i was ever on a track it was on my s4r -- and why every time since then has been on a track bike.

With the exception of winning some regional and/or club racing titles, I can echo the same sentiments as Fasterblkduc. [cheeky]

I spent a lot of $$ getting my 620 Monster set-up like a sportbike and had a lot of fun doing it but I never really got up to speed on it. Forks, shock, high pipes, messed with the suspension some more, fork height, rearend height, clip-ons, etc. 

When the Monster was totaled out by insurance co. (knocked over in a parking lot) I picked up a 1000SS and I was instantly faster, smoother and a little more sexy, right out of the box. 

The Monster is a fun, cool and comfy bike. It is not a sportbike and as Faster said, takes silly time and effort to set up. 

The original post indicated the Monster is being sold so why night get the right tool for the job? I too think the 675 is an awesome choice. Any I-4 600/750 will do the trick as well.

Another agreement with others.  I spent a couple years at the track on my Monster, and its a lot of fun, but really not ideal for the circumstances.  The tank is wide, the bars are wide, you run out of lean, and riding style while comfortable isn't really suited for aggressive riding.  I had an air cooled 800, so it was a blast absolutely flogging that motor.  I do miss that part.

My 848 is so much smoother and requires a lot less effort, although under hard braking it will definately work you out a bit more in that regard.

(Beating a dead horse.)

I also started on the track with my Monster.  I quickly realized the bars and the forks needed to be upgraded.  Next on the list was the pegs and the rear ride height.  You can see why in the pic below.  That shifter loved scraping the asphalt.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2446/3601514867_21d3326ba9_o.jpg)

Soon after that it would have been the exhaust.  That's when I realized this could be a very expensive adventure!  So I placed my money elsewhere.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2541/3842872365_dc49bda777.jpg)

Much more comfortable on the track, quicker and look at that ground clearance.

I forgot to add that the monster was great on the street.  The 748 would probably break my back and damage other body parts. 

how much different is the M900 chassis compared to an 851/888 ???
couldn't the M900 be set up like and early SBK and be competitive on the track
or at least be comparable ???

Yes, but it is a lot of work. Read my post on page 3. The M900 can be comparable to an SV650.

or, for far less money and headache, you can just get an SV.  =)

To each their own. I think fasterblkduc explain it thoroughly. Not everyone that hits the track is going to do it for racing and many of us can't afford a second track only bike, but for those that can afford it, listen to the man and get something more track suited. The SS is the most widely used Duc I've seen on the track. I guess it's because it's still air-cooled with the ergos of a super bike.

I think this air-cooled Ducati would make a fun track bike!

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=241532 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=241532)

100 ft-lbs of torque   :o

Good ol' Webman. Saw that bike on the track for the CDC trackday. It was very fast.

The SS is a great track bike. It has different ergos then the Monster and the bikes overall geometry is sportbike oriented as opposed to standard. The bike was excellent out of the box for track use.

I would have kept my SS but it was just to pretty to throw down the track. 

Yes it would and I've raced a 900 very similar. They need the triple clamp offset upgrade to corner well. Even at that weight if the front end is stock, they feel like a tank to corner. But that power is very nice.

Again, I'll give the practical advice that I'm good for...for the money, it's not worth it unless you're going to race it. At that price, you can get a sweet middleweight, that will handle much better, go much faster, require less maintenance, and have cheaper spares. If your heart is set on a SS, check the WERA forum often because you can find 800 and 900SS racebikes for sale for cheaper. Still not the best bang for the buck but I understand if you just really want a Duc.  ;)

hold on a sec.....1st...it depends on which 900...there are the 851 framed 900's and then the ST framed 900's...different animals to a small extent...my track pregnant dog 900 is an earlier 851 framed M900 and though it required the right parts( like ANY and every Monster) it is a pretty competent machine in it's right....would I do better to pick up and SS? yes I would ( especially given the upgrades I would like to do to the motor)...but I think some of the question here about setting it up ala 851 style is feasable and doable...just depends on which framed bike you have as to how much easier it can be.

possible? yes... feasable? well, that really depends on how much money you wanna throw at it.

honestly, when my parts and labor list approaches 50% of the cost of a different bike, i usually just go ahead and buy the other bike.