Ducati Monster Forum

Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: Grampa on January 14, 2010, 05:45:15 PM

Title: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Grampa on January 14, 2010, 05:45:15 PM
there are no politics

there is no religion

there is no favorite bike

there is no favorite movie

there is no american idol

there is no facebook

there is no more anything

except.....

a need for the basics.


food

water

shelter

and wanting those you love and care for to be safe.

my heart goes out to all those dealing with the basics in Haiti.


:'(

please help in any way you can.... be it well wishes or cash.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: peanut_man on January 14, 2010, 06:30:35 PM
Easiest way:  txt 'Haiti' to 90999 and $10 will be donated to American Red Cross.  It will later on show on your bill.  Most wireless carriers will also not charge for that txt msg. 

Do it.

Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be
Post by: Kopfjäger on January 14, 2010, 11:14:27 PM
Quote from: IV on January 14, 2010, 11:11:47 PM
Also, you would be even more bothered if you know how things are messed up over there to begin with...

Beyond repair, well before this.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Randimus Maximus on January 18, 2010, 08:22:36 AM
My company is making a $500,000 donation to the relief effort through these three organizations: Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders and Save the Children.   [thumbsup]

They will also be matching donations at 100% from employees.

My check will be in the mail tomorrow when I am back in the office.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: NAKID on January 18, 2010, 03:59:28 PM
This subject frustrates me. How many other countries came to our aid when we were attacked by terrorists on September 11th, 2001, or during the devastation of Hurricane Katrina?
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 18, 2010, 04:11:30 PM
i'm having some real issues with haiti right now. I want to help, then I see the videos of the looters. Its like New Orleans again. I won't have one penny of my money help a looter. I'm not ok with that.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: mojo on January 18, 2010, 04:41:21 PM
I'm sure a lot of the looters are just trying to get some food and water to survive.  I'd do the same thing.  I have a baby boy, and I'd never want him to go hungry.  Do you think the Hatians feel any different?  Probably not.

I sent my $10 donation via text this morning.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 18, 2010, 04:52:53 PM
I understand needing food and water. The videos show them looting stores and homes, and they aren't walking off with food OR water. Hence, the police were trying to keep them from continuing and firing warning shots into the air to make their point, to no avail.

With over $10M donated so far, and relief flowing in, the food and water are getting there. Stealing non-essentials is not OK in my book, especially in times of tragedy. I don't like opportunists under these circumstances.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: mojo on January 18, 2010, 05:02:53 PM
Jeez, you make it sound like everyone in Haiti, and everyone who was a Katrina victim is a looter.  Just because the news decided to show videos of greedy assholes stealing anything they can carry, it doesn't mean that everyone does it.  The idea of sending the $10 to the Red Cross is to help the people who need help, not to support gangs/druglords/terrorists or whoever else is up to no good. 
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 18, 2010, 05:06:44 PM
I just have trouble giving when that asshole stands in line and gets stuff too. It very much spoils the good deed I'm trying to do.

I did give, btw. Its just frustrating. Hard to selectively help the people that deserve it while keeping out the morally corrupt.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: mojo on January 18, 2010, 05:15:40 PM
In my eyes, if only one dollar of the ten I donated goes to buying someone a meal, it's money well spent.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Grampa on January 18, 2010, 06:15:02 PM
Haiti is about 10700 square miles

San Francisco is about about 7000 square miles

Haiti was 7.0

SF was 7.1


there are reports that 150.000 people are feared dead in Haiti

there were 62 confirmed deaths in sf

I've been told that in the last ten years alone... the us government has given about 1.5 billion in financial aid (thats not including all non government assistance, via personal donations and relief efforts) Thats all non disaster funding. Imagine what a small town near you could or would do with 1.5 billion.

In Haitis history there have been (I think).... about 90 some odd coups



I'll be the first to say...enough is enough..... money has not, and will not fix their problems.

That being said..... I cant watch the news and just do nothing.... I gave money to the red cross with the hope it goes to feed a somebody hungry or dig a grave for somebody who deserves a decent send off.  Help for me is blind. If I could go there myself... I'd bring my shovel before I brought my wallet.... but see'n how thats not the case..... we did the lil bit we could do.

Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: mstevens on January 20, 2010, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: NAKID on January 18, 2010, 03:59:28 PM
This subject frustrates me. How many other countries came to our aid when we were attacked by terrorists on September 11th, 2001, or during the devastation of Hurricane Katrina?

Many. A great deal of assistance was offered and some was accepted. This is well-documented and easy to confirm.

Here's an alternate way of looking at it: every country richer than the US went all-out to help us at those times. What? Did you expect Haiti to send aid workers to NYC?

Are you saying that if a country is too poor to help us out, our response when they have a disaster should be to say "make the beast with two backs 'em?"

The universe doesn't run on a quid pro quo basis.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: MendoDave on January 20, 2010, 10:48:28 AM
Quote from: bobspapa on January 18, 2010, 06:15:02 PM

I've been told that in the last ten years alone... the us government has given about 1.5 billion in financial aid (thats not including all non government assistance, via personal donations and relief efforts) Thats all non disaster funding. Imagine what a small town near you could or would do with 1.5 billion.

In Haitis history there have been (I think).... about 90 some odd coups



I'll be the first to say...enough is enough..... money has not, and will not fix their problems.

That being said..... I cant watch the news and just do nothing.... I gave money to the red cross with the hope it goes to feed a somebody hungry or dig a grave for somebody who deserves a decent send off.  Help for me is blind. If I could go there myself... I'd bring my shovel before I brought my wallet.... but see'n how thats not the case..... we did the lil bit we could do.



S.F. could build the Muni subway extension into china town.



I won't support the Red Cross. But I am giving a $40 donation to an organization that uses ALL of the money for it's intended purpose.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: akmnstr on January 20, 2010, 12:11:03 PM
I can't watch the news.  Haiti has been in a state of collapse for decades so it was incredibly vulnerable to disaster.  In the relief there will be waste, some will profit, and some will cheat.  I saw it when I helped after Rita and Katrina and the scale of that will be much greater in Haiti.  But that is just the way it is.  People need help there so my wife and I sent in our donation.  The odd dichotomy of humans is that we are both violent to our own kind and compassionate.  This is a time for charity.     
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be
Post by: DucofWestwood on January 20, 2010, 12:22:24 PM
i see more suffering than greed in these pictures.  if you don't like the looters, think about the young kids, and give some cash.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/haiti_six_days_later.html (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/haiti_six_days_later.html)
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Triple J on January 20, 2010, 01:18:12 PM
Quote from: bobspapa on January 18, 2010, 06:15:02 PM
Haiti was 7.0

SF was 7.1


there are reports that 150.000 people are feared dead in Haiti

there were 62 confirmed deaths in sf

I'll agree that Haiti has serious, long-standing problems...but the above comparison means nothing. The recent Haiti EQ was quite a bit different that the SF Loma Prieta one in '89, not to mention building code differences, geologic differences, etc. There easily could have been many more deaths in SF if only a couple minor things were different.

One day relatively soon a country in good shape will have a very high number of casualties from a large EQ (most likely Turkey)...it can happen anywhere really.

Quote from: bobspapa on January 18, 2010, 06:15:02 PM

That being said..... I cant watch the news and just do nothing.... I gave money to the red cross with the hope it goes to feed a somebody hungry or dig a grave for somebody who deserves a decent send off.  Help for me is blind. If I could go there myself... I'd bring my shovel before I brought my wallet.... but see'n how thats not the case..... we did the lil bit we could do.



Agreed.  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 20, 2010, 01:28:32 PM
Did I hear correctly that this morning around 5am another 6+ hit?
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Triple J on January 20, 2010, 01:37:16 PM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 20, 2010, 01:28:32 PM
Did I hear correctly that this morning around 5am another 6+ hit?

Yep...6.1 aftershock.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: LMT on January 20, 2010, 01:51:30 PM
Quote from: D Paoli on January 20, 2010, 10:48:28 AM
I won't support the Red Cross. But I am giving a $40 donation to an organization that uses ALL of the money for it's intended purpose.

Why not give to the Red Cross?  Yes, some $$ sent in for specific disasters went into the general fund.  People complain when the RC is not there, complain when they think the RC make the beast with two backss up, and complain that it all takes to long.

In my RC chapter (my employer) we have 80 paid staff, 24  Vista volunteers, 300 language bank vols, over 300 vol teachers, and 2,000+ disaster (local fire, flood, EQ) vols.  The chapters get $$$ when a BIG disaster hits.  The rest of the time people send $, and not a lot of it. 

People gave so much $$$ during Katrina that it could not all be used up in the local theater, so some went to pay for the people that make it all happen.  We did not get raises last year, will not get them this year, and are laying off staff.  Yet when a disaster strike, help is still expected.  People get what they pay for.

So don't give to the Red Cross.  But remember, if your house burns down we will be there right after the fire trucks with offers of shelter, cloths, and a  hot cup of coffee.  All free.


Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: NAKID on January 20, 2010, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: mstevens on January 20, 2010, 10:00:18 AM
Many. A great deal of assistance was offered and some was accepted. This is well-documented and easy to confirm.

That's fine, it's just not something I've heard about.

Quote from: mstevens on January 20, 2010, 10:00:18 AM
Here's an alternate way of looking at it: every country richer than the US went all-out to help us at those times. What? Did you expect Haiti to send aid workers to NYC?

Not at all.

Quote from: mstevens on January 20, 2010, 10:00:18 AM
Are you saying that if a country is too poor to help us out, our response when they have a disaster should be to say "make the beast with two backs 'em?"

Nope, it just seems that we spend more money helping the rest of the world when there is plenty of needy people right here.

Quote from: mstevens on January 20, 2010, 10:00:18 AM
The universe doesn't run on a quid pro quo basis.

Never said it did or should...
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Kopfjäger on January 20, 2010, 04:54:49 PM
Finest Military in the world, to the rescue again. (not like were already spread thin)


And the Pentagon announced that 2,000 more U.S. Marines would be sent to Haiti, adding 11,500 U.S. military personnel already on the ground or on ships offshore â€" a number expected to reach 16,000 by week's end.



Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Randimus Maximus on January 20, 2010, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: NAKID on January 20, 2010, 03:45:51 PM
Nope, it just seems that we spend more money helping the rest of the world when there is plenty of needy people right here.


When you live in one of the wealthiest countries of the world, that's what you do.

Not to say we shouldn't be doing more at home.  And the resources are there, as evidenced by the generosity of the US citizenry we are seeing in assisting Haiti.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Grampa on January 20, 2010, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: Triple J on January 20, 2010, 01:18:12 PM
I'll agree that Haiti has serious, long-standing problems...but the above comparison means nothing. The recent Haiti EQ was quite a bit different that the SF Loma Prieta one in '89, not to mention building code differences, geologic differences, etc. There easily could have been many more deaths in SF if only a couple minor things were different.

One day relatively soon a country in good shape will have a very high number of casualties from a large EQ (most likely Turkey)...it can happen anywhere really.

Agreed.  [thumbsup]

stop be'n all engineery and shit  with proper facts ;D

;)
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Triple J on January 20, 2010, 06:14:52 PM
Quote from: bobspapa on January 20, 2010, 05:44:25 PM
stop be'n all engineery and shit  with proper facts ;D

;)

Sorry man.  :P [laugh]
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 21, 2010, 04:34:04 AM
Quote from: NAKID on January 20, 2010, 03:45:51 PM
it just seems that we spend more money helping the rest of the world when there is plenty of needy people right here.

This is a real problem I have with foreign adoptions. There are unadopted children here that need families. I think it unfairly burdens these kids when a family goes abroad (China) to adopt, especially when the motivation is saving money. Buy a foreign car over an "American" car, fine with me. Buy a foreign kid over one here? I find issue with this. There are other legitimate motivating reasons, but its always hard to see some of these kids here wondering why nobody wants them.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: mstevens on January 21, 2010, 04:39:57 AM
Quote from: NAKID on January 20, 2010, 03:45:51 PMit just seems that we spend more money helping the rest of the world when there is plenty of needy people right here.

I couldn't agree more. For some reason we seem to be excessively focused on disasters elsewhere and liable to ignore ongoing, real problems right in our midst.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Grampa on January 21, 2010, 04:42:43 AM
^ HMRF

He Man Relief Fund
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 21, 2010, 04:43:59 AM
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: MendoDave on January 21, 2010, 04:49:12 AM
Quote from: Little Monkey Toes on January 20, 2010, 01:51:30 PM
Why not give to the Red Cross? 

In my RC chapter (my employer) we have 80 paid staff, 24  Vista volunteers, 300 language bank vols, over 300 vol teachers, and 2,000+ disaster (local fire, flood, EQ) vols.  The chapters get $$$ when a BIG disaster hits.  The rest of the time people send $, and not a lot of it. 

People gave so much $$$ during Katrina that it could not all be used up in the local theater, so some went to pay for the people that make it all happen.  We did not get raises last year, will not get them this year, and are laying off staff.  Yet when a disaster strike, help is still expected. 




Because....

http://www.jw-media.org/hti/20100118.htm (http://www.jw-media.org/hti/20100118.htm)

And there are no paid volunteers. And this sort of thing goes on all the time.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: LMT on January 21, 2010, 04:54:42 AM
Quote from: D Paoli on January 21, 2010, 04:49:12 AM
Because....

http://www.jw-media.org/hti/20100118.htm (http://www.jw-media.org/hti/20100118.htm)

And there are no paid volunteers. And this sort of thing goes on all the time.

The vols are not paid, but the staff that gets them, trains them, places  them, and then retains them are paid.

Your link is broke or makes no sense.  If you have specific data against the ARC or ICRC I would be happy to read it and give you my data.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 21, 2010, 04:57:58 AM
Tax time is coming -- If you haven't read, donations for Haiti may be claimed as deductions on the 2009 return, so sayeth the news feeds. An incentive to give now and get the reward more immediately (time value of moolah).
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: MendoDave on January 21, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
Quote from: Little Monkey Toes on January 21, 2010, 04:54:42 AM
The vols are not paid, but the staff that gets them, trains them, places  them, and then retains them are paid.

Your link is broke or makes no sense.  If you have specific data against the ARC or ICRC I would be happy to read it and give you my data.

Link works fine.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 21, 2010, 05:15:51 AM
Gotta be honest, hard to accept the Jehovah's Witness media data as unbiased in reporting - they have a stake in the outcome of their proposition. They are also sending aid, therefore, competing against those claimed to not be fully giving the aid. It does cost money to provide aid, the Red Cross can't function without some permanent employees.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 21, 2010, 05:16:47 AM
*Not because they are JW, but because they are a competing cause. that is all, no insult to an individuals religious preferences intended. it could be the baptists, methodists, or snake charmers for all i care.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: LMT on January 21, 2010, 05:20:02 AM
Quote from: D Paoli on January 21, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
Link works fine.

I am glad that the Jehovah Witnesses are there, but does it have to do with the American Red Cross or the International Committee of the Red Cross?

You may not like the RC, and that is fine.  If you are going to make statements that may lead others to think we are doing wrong, then back them up with facts.

I am done with this. I have to go to work.  At the Red Cross. Someone is going to learn how to save a life today!
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: ducpainter on January 21, 2010, 05:27:21 AM
Quote from: D Paoli on January 21, 2010, 05:06:02 AM
Link works fine.
It may work...

but it makes no sense.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: akmnstr on January 21, 2010, 05:49:02 AM
There are lots of ways to give so if you have a problem with the Red Cross find another way.  We gave to Unicef.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be
Post by: triangleforge on January 21, 2010, 05:53:01 AM
If you want to make sure your contribution does the most good, do your homework first. Here's a great place to start, Charity Navigator's guide to Haitian relief:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1004 (http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1004)

Or Guidestar's:

http://www2.guidestar.org/rxg/give-to-charity/haitian-relief-efforts.aspx (http://www2.guidestar.org/rxg/give-to-charity/haitian-relief-efforts.aspx)

I've looked over both, and have no qualms about supporting the American Red Cross.

Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: Triple J on January 21, 2010, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on January 21, 2010, 05:27:21 AM
It may work...

but it makes no sense.

Exactly...WTF?
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: MendoDave on January 21, 2010, 05:11:28 PM
Quote from: akmnstr on January 21, 2010, 05:49:02 AM
There are lots of ways to give so if you have a problem with the Red Cross find another way.  We gave to Unicef.

A that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to bash the red cross here. Its just divisive. But I have my reasons for not want to to donate that go way back to the 80's. Plus some reasons that can't be talked about on this forum.

Quote from: ato memphis on January 21, 2010, 05:15:51 AM
Gotta be honest, hard to accept the Jehovah's Witness media data as unbiased in reporting - they have a stake in the outcome of their proposition. They are also sending aid, therefore, competing against those claimed to not be fully giving the aid. It does cost money to provide aid, the Red Cross can't function without some permanent employees.

You probably wont find a report on them in the mainstream media. They are really not competing against any other aid programs for recognition either, they just do what they do in this sort of situation often unnoticed by and large.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: ducpainter on January 21, 2010, 05:18:55 PM
Quote from: D Paoli on January 21, 2010, 05:11:28 PM
A that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to bash the red cross here. Its just divisive. But I have my reasons for not want to to donate that go way back to the 80's. Plus some reasons that can't be talked about on this forum.

You probably wont find a report on them in the mainstream media. They are really not competing against any other aid programs for recognition either, they just do what they do in this sort of situation often unnoticed by and large.
So enough with the political/religious innuendo already. [roll]

Just give, or not, by the method you choose.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 21, 2010, 05:19:28 PM
inYOURendo.
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: ducpainter on January 21, 2010, 05:21:03 PM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 21, 2010, 05:19:28 PM
inYOURendo.
huh?
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: junior varsity on January 21, 2010, 05:21:50 PM
joke from Scrubs. A character "The Todd" always makes obscene jokes and at one point, they told him to lay off the innuendo, so he replied "in your endo".
Title: Re: food.... water.... shelter .... and the desire for those you care for to be safe
Post by: ducpainter on January 21, 2010, 05:22:45 PM
I should leave my cave more frequently. ;D