Ducati Monster Forum

I just got the brown truck delivery yesterday evening.  So last night I cut open the packages to look over the instructions (limited) and check parts.  I saw the sticker on the package "FOR RACING USE ONLY" but I just thought, well that's just a lawyer sticker, they are just covering their a55.  I started to pre-assemble the left rearset (shifter side) and all looks good.  Then I cut open the right rearset package, took out the instructions and read that since the rearset is designed for track use there is no provision for brake return spring nor for brake light switch.  Well he11, that's not good.  I haven't taken the stock footpeg brackets off the bike yet to see how things will go together.  Has anyone installed Woodcraft rearsets on you 696 or 1100?  What did you do/find?

I don't think you need a brake lever return spring. Don't think my AG Hammer rearsets had one, and it was no problem. I can't think of a spring anywhere in the front brakes either. The Rizoma rearsets use a stretched o-ring as a rubberband to act like a return spring. Seems like it was an afterthought.

Brake light switch can be handled with a pressure switch, like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/ycuw72a (http://tinyurl.com/ycuw72a)

(http://www.motowheels.com/italian/images/lg516069854.jpg)

ATO is right...you don't need a rear brake return spring...the master does it for you.

Brake light is up to you. I ran my Monster without a rear brake light swich for a long time due to some custom rearsets I had. My reasoning was that I never used only the rear brake on that bike, so the front engage the taillight.

Graves Yamaha makes a return spring for their aftermarket rearsets.  I highly recommend one or fabbing up something similar.  I've had a sticky rear brake pedal without a spring lock up my rear on me before.  Granted it's rare.  But a spring is cheap insurance....

(http://www.kneedraggers.com/image_storage/c/d4/cd4972337fcf2a7550f6bd4cb1f77f3c_refined.jpg)

I use that Spiegler switch for my front brake setup since Brembo Radial GP's have no accommodation for brake switches.

The spring doesn't pull the master's piston, so its just to move the pedal back up. I repeat, it doesn't pull the piston, and thus does not open the brake caliper!

Just pull your rear brake clevis out to see what I'm talking about!

It does pull the piston back out.  The piston rod goes through the spring then there is a threaded nut/washer threaded onto the piston rod to put tension on the spring.  If you remove the pedal and push the piston in it does spring back.  I've had it on 3 bikes with aftermarket rearsets and it works just fine.

EDIT - Besides....most return springs on the rearsets reside on the rearset itself.  In short stock springs move the pedal and not the master piston.  Since the pedal is connected to the piston if the pedal moves it will pull the piston back down....just like stock.

I'm just saying, on a brembo rear brake master, the rod that pushes the piston in is not connected. You can pull on it all you want, and it will just come out in your hand, it is a "push" only device.

On a stock set up the spring moves the pedal....which pulls the piston.  Correct?

Not on any Ducati I have, or have had. The spring moves the pedal...which moves the plunger. The plunger is not attched to the master piston...it returns by fluid pressure.

Pressure switch is available...its $17.99
(I'll get one for you for no charge if you want)

according to Woodcraft, the spring is not required and the master pressure returns the lever....but if you want one, you can measure what length you need and they can provide one.

jeff h
monsterparts

Ok....got what you're saying.  

Still, the spring I showed does work because it functions in the exact same capacity as the stock spring.  It removes pressure from the plunger.  The piston can't return if plunger won't let it.  This spring set up moves the plunger directly...as opposed to via the pedal.  Net result is the same as stock.  It moves the plunger so the master piston can return via fluid.

Granted...its only an issue if you have a sticky pedal.  Or if you're worried about it as the OP stated.

Sticky pedal is the lower on the list of your concerns in regards to stuck rear brake; You are more likely to have a stuck rear caliper piston from excessive brake dust and corrosion, not as much issues at the master cylinder side (except for various methods to lose pressure, leak, and no longer function). It is possible for the pedal to stick down, but with the rear wheel turning bc of the engine, the brake will only stay clamped if there is significant pressure at the pedal, from getting "really really stuck" or your foot on it.

Again, the springs or rubber bands are redundant and a bit unnecessary.

Here's a shot of a [titanium] rear brake clevis. Its identical in shape to the oem brembo rod, notice the side with the holes (right) goes to the pedal hinge / levered side; the other side (left) - the piston side, is just a push-rod.

(http://www.racebolts.com/images/Ducati/clevis.jpg)

This side                                                        This side connects to
pushes piston                                                   brake pedal lever

It is a "very" simple system. Think of the front brake the same way, you release front brake lever, there's no spring to return the lever "outwards".

Regular brake systems are, imo, the most simple system on the entire motorcycle. I exclude ABS, because I've never owned one and don't know what all is going on in those for bikes. I think the dry clutch is only "barely" more complicated, but there are certainly more parts on top of the hydraulics.

It's not a question of pressure at the pedal its a question of lever travel.  I had a sticky pedal on my track SV and didn't notice I until it locked up when I tapped it.  I had to use my heel to pull it back up and unlock the brake.  When I got to the pits I inspected it and realized it was dragging.  My guess is last time I pressed it it failed to return to it's starting point. Next time I pressed it it only had half the normal travel and didn't require as much pressure to reach locking point.  I took apart the rearsets and cleaned the pivot and it worked fine after that.  I got the spring for a safety measure and it worked fine.

Redundant and unnecessary are all dependant on where you draw the line.  Just because the master has enough pressure to return the pedal doesn't mean the spring doesn't work.  Its merely a fail-safe.

That's not really the same, The lack of spring or o-ring rubber band didn't lock up the pedal, pushing it a perceived distance greater than normal did. Similar problems with the rear brake locking up can occur if there's not sufficient free-play above normal resting position if the brake fluid boils and expands - it has to go somewhere and if the pedal can't move, then the pistons will, clamping down on rear disc.

Exactly....a sticky pedal reduces the free-play.

I see them as related because if the brake was dragging it was generating heat....boiling the fluid...makes the brakes lock a lot easier.  Combined with the reduced lever travel it caused a problem in my case.  They locked a lot easier than they should have.

Long and short of it is the fluid didn't have enough pressure to return the pedal in my case.  Result was a dragging brake that locked.  

Not arguing your points.  Is it redundant?  Yes.  Unecessary?  If everything is functioning properly it is.  But that doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose.  Or it doesn't work.  

In short millions of bikes have a return spring.  It doesn't hurt anything.

I know someone that installed the wrong lever on his front master.  Bought a 2nd hand race SV that had a Honda (older F4I I believe) master on it.  He put a spare SV lever on it after a lowside and hadn't thought anything of it.  Next session as he was tipping in for a turn he felt the bike start to slow.  As he hit full lean the front end tucked.  He figured there was no free-play and the resultant heat cause them to lock.