Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: battlecry on January 25, 2010, 10:15:22 AM

Title: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: battlecry on January 25, 2010, 10:15:22 AM

Why are three different designs and which one is "better"?

I have seen two lines from the MC, one to each caliper, an h shaped single line from the MC to both calipers, and one line from mc to one caliper with a separate line from that caliper to the next.  Seems if you want better feel with less line stretch you would not choose the dual lines from the mc, and if you want less unsprung weight, you would not choose the dual lines from the caliper.  Even the h lines are available with the tee fitting above the lower triple on Monsters and below on Superbikes. 

Why would you not choose an h line for the street?
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: ducpainter on January 25, 2010, 12:06:34 PM
I don't think you'll notice any difference in feel with today's braided lines.

I have an H line ala SBK on my bike.

Use what ever you like the looks of.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: Speeddog on January 25, 2010, 12:16:03 PM
The SBK h-style, with the Tee at the fender will be the lightest, and provide the stiffest lever, due to having the least amount of hose.

but like DP said, very little to be had in it versus the other styles.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: battlecry on January 25, 2010, 01:31:12 PM

Thanks, that seems like a natural choice to me.  Don't know why you would want the complication, weight, and expense of the dual line setups. 
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: NorDog on January 25, 2010, 02:32:08 PM
Yeah, I don't think you'll notice any unsprung weight problems regardless of you choice.  On my Harley I went with a single line to double banjo on the right caliper, and then a single line from there, up and over to the left caliper.

Why?  Because of probably the least important reason of all: I thought it was cool.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 26, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
I have the t-junction in the middle, so I guess that's the "h" shape.

Two lines from the master is cluttered. Boo clutter.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: slowkitty on January 26, 2010, 06:00:39 PM
The eBay bloke sells the 2 to 2 for the front ... I'm getting it soon and will see how it goes. Personally I thought that this is more elegant than the "h".

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Goodridge-Braided-Brake-Lines-Ducati-M750-Monster-750_W0QQitemZ390129666425QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item5ad58a4979 (http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Goodridge-Braided-Brake-Lines-Ducati-M750-Monster-750_W0QQitemZ390129666425QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item5ad58a4979)

Cheers
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 04:51:30 AM
I would much rather have the double banjo at the caliper, crossing over the fender to the other caliper, much much more than two cables at the master coming down and travelling down each fork tube.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: ducatiz on January 27, 2010, 04:57:45 AM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 26, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
I have the t-junction in the middle, so I guess that's the "h" shape.

Two lines from the master is cluttered. Boo clutter.

h shape is two lines, one long from the master and one short from caliper to caliper.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 05:10:41 AM
then I prefer "t" shape.

I was thinking of "h" shape as being the "l"+"n" shape. We need distinct nomenclature.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 05:13:50 AM
We're calling this an "h"?

(http://www.ducatitech.com/2v/aftermarket/img/brakelines.jpg)
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: NorDog on January 27, 2010, 05:22:11 AM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 27, 2010, 04:51:30 AM
I would much rather have the double banjo at the caliper, crossing over the fender to the other caliper, much much more than two cables at the master coming down and travelling down each fork tube.

I've heard that racers use the two hoses from the master cylinder to the calipers because that set up is easier to bleed.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 05:27:41 AM
Hmm.  I have to say I'm a really big fan of the speedbleeders I put on my Brembo Goldlines, and bleeding is REALLY easy, I can see how in an "h" setup that air could sit in the top bend. In my T-junction, I don't really have that problem. My thoughts are that racers want the speediest bleed setup, and the two lines would be it. Also, they are less concerned with cosmetics and don't have pesky things like headlights and turn signal wiring to also contend with.

My new calipers (on the shelf right now, going to be rebuilt) have 2-bleed nipples (one per piston bank) per caliper.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: ducatiz on January 27, 2010, 05:43:22 AM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 27, 2010, 05:10:41 AM
then I prefer "t" shape.

I was thinking of "h" shape as being the "l"+"n" shape. We need distinct nomenclature.

fudge, i dunno.  i thought it was two separate lines with one of them a crossover caliper-to-caliper -- with a double banjo on one caliper, single line running to the master.

it might be a single line with a sideways T.  i drew it in my head, whaddya say?

Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 05:49:38 AM
i need you to doodle this on an etch a sketch and take a picture to show me, please.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: ducatiz on January 27, 2010, 06:00:28 AM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 27, 2010, 05:49:38 AM
i need you to doodle this on an etch a sketch and take a picture to show me, please.

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/00_main/foobar.jpg)
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: NorDog on January 27, 2010, 06:09:13 AM
That looks like some kinda hybrid turtle/goose monster!
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 06:12:05 AM
Here's mine:

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/S2BlQCdKppI/AAAAAAAAFOs/uYQr7rez74w/s800/brake%20setup.jpg)
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: Speeddog on January 27, 2010, 06:26:11 AM
Quote from: NorDog on January 27, 2010, 06:09:13 AM
That looks like some kinda hybrid turtle/goose monster!

That's a Brontosaurus Rex
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: ducatiz on January 27, 2010, 06:38:07 AM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 27, 2010, 06:12:05 AM
Here's mine:

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/S2BlQCdKppI/AAAAAAAAFOs/uYQr7rez74w/s800/brake%20setup.jpg)

i can see how that might be called an h too. 
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: MadDuck on January 27, 2010, 06:45:29 AM
I've run "H's", "T's" & doubles from the master on my bikes. I can't feel any difference between them. The biggest difference in feel was in different pads and different master cylinders. I think the twin lines are the least cluttered looking and easier to deal with when it comes to front wheel off time. YMMV.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: NorDog on January 27, 2010, 06:49:29 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on January 27, 2010, 06:38:07 AM
i can see how that might be called an h too.  

Yeah, except for that "T" fitting in the middle.   [cheeky]

If I may:

"T" arrangement = Lines with a "T" fitting between the master cylinder and the calipers.
"h" arrangement = One line from the master cylinder to one of the calipers with a double banjo, and a second line from that same double banjo up and over to the other caliper.
"Twin" arrangement = Two separate lines from a double banjo at the master cylinder; one line to one caliper, the other line to the other caliper.

Will the new electric bikes have electric brakes to make this even more fun?
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 06:51:15 AM
And the original ducati design using the manifold. Blech.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: NorDog on January 27, 2010, 07:41:05 AM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 27, 2010, 06:51:15 AM
And the original ducati design using the manifold. Blech.

Manifold?  Yeah, I don't know that one.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 07:42:11 AM
Mounted to the old school Monster's triple. Brake line to it, two brake lines out of it. Before T-junctions were in style.
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: ducatiz on January 27, 2010, 07:56:00 AM
Quote from: ato memphis on January 27, 2010, 06:51:15 AM
And the original ducati design using the manifold. Blech.

truly, it wasn't bad at all.  it simplified the hose routing because you had one from the master and then one following each fork.  and it was solid aluminum, so no expansion or swelling.  plus, you had a neutral, safe place to install the switch.  the junction never caused any problems for anyone i know of and it's all hydraulic so fluid in = fluid out.  regardless how you route the hoses, as long as none expand, it doesn't matter.

theoretically you could have 2 miles of brake hose as long as they don't have any expansion, response would be the same as 2 inches.

Quote from: ato memphis on January 27, 2010, 07:42:11 AM
Mounted to the old school Monster's triple. Brake line to it, two brake lines out of it. Before T-junctions were in style.

Most Ducatis, but I didn't know it was used on any Monsters.

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/00_main/alazzurra-0041.jpg)
Title: Re: Brake lines for dual caliper front brakes
Post by: junior varsity on January 27, 2010, 10:01:30 AM
My 99 Monster had it. I just thought it was unnecessary since there was t-junctions available. And it was kind of large (on my bike).

When I upgraded master cylinders to a radial GP, I needed new lines (and the old ones weren't all that good to begin with), so I had an opportunity to ditch it.