Ducati Monster Forum

Decided to keep it, see this project through, so BMW 2002 be damned. You can see my list of mod's below, I have the cosmetics worked out. What else can I do to my 916 to coax a little more out? Talked to the Duc Doc in Atlanta about the hi comp piston set, may rework the exhaust setup as well. I know the sprocket upgrade, what else?

ST4S Motor ;)

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/billybongthorten/Foggy/1.jpg)

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/billybongthorten/Foggydyno.jpg)

Source?

that's the first bike that has ever reminded me of a pit bull  [evil]

Dadayummm!!!! Is there a huge performance gainback from the BSTs? (i assume you have other mods on their that contribute as well!)

its putting out 140 at the wheel for a motor that is essentially completely outdated by todays technology by at least 10 years.  i'd say that is about as good as you can get.

It's not the wheels, all motor! It has a ton of stuff done to it, I'll have too find the list.

It would end up being cheaper doing the ST4S motor than going the rout of building the 916 motor (start with a better base). A stock ST4S motor with a 50mm system should give you around 114-118hp at the wheel. If you look hard enough you should be able to find one for $1,500-$2,500.00.

Will this engine fit?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Engine-2007-Ducati-Monster-S4RS-999-SBK-Deep-Sump_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c52ec57d5QQitemZ190369781717QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Engine-2007-Ducati-Monster-S4RS-999-SBK-Deep-Sump_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c52ec57d5QQitemZ190369781717QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

start losing weight. both you AND the bike :)
get that sucker light as a feather.
BST wheels.
CF everything.
Titanium or Alloy FRAME.

bst wheels, carbon ceramic front rotors and drop in some performance cams, call it a day.

Ha. Alloy frame is $6K, not gonna happen.

BST wheels, lw clutch, lw flywheel, st4s motor, cams, port and polish, ceramic rotors, better suspension, cf tank, better brakes, titanium fastners etc. 

Or just trade for a s4rs/fighter. 

No fun without building it myself. I may keep this one mild stock with comp pistons, new ECU/exhaust, new sprocket, slipper.

best spent money would be on wheels over motor parts. seriously.

any motor work requires dyno tuning to get it 'right' and you'll find a bunch of other small things to do while you are in there. If the heads are coming off, might as well throw a lightweight flywheel on. And some cams. and lighten the crank while you are balancing it. And lightweight rods.



Again, wheels.

those bastards are almost $4K! Gee's, I'll play with a few light mods, finish the cosmetics, then replace the motor down the road. Glad I have you boys for advise. I was hoping to build the motor out a little for $2K

They can be obtained through Motowheels at a pretty good price under member discounts, last time I checked, just over 3k up to 3.5k I thought.

really going to make that much difference than my magnesiums?

approx a pound a half of rotating weight per wheel removed.

you could go with really lightweight rotors (like the ceramic ones) and make up most of the difference I believe.

If you have mag wheels already I wouldn't change to BST's, there's not enough difference. I would do the suspension then the brakes (calipers/masters).

If you are going to do a CF tank look at the ETI fuel cells, the DP are prone to leak.

You are better off waiting until you can do the whole motor at once like ato said. It would be a pain in the ass to do just a little here and there. Also, for 2grand your not going to get too far, new SPS cams run $1,200-2,000.00, pistons $500....

Just ask me how I know, Commonwealth is finishing up the motor on my 1036CS:

Ducati 1036CS First Start after Engine Build. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdpZqIJWV0E#normal)

Great advice guys. After sitting down and thinking this out. First plan of attack is to lose bike weight, suspension, cosmetics. Then build the 916 out all at once. Also, send me some links for some engine performance parts.

You might think of acquiring a nice "box" to put supplies in. I do this with projects. You slowly accumulate the necessary parts and eventually you'll have everything you need, then you fill a piggy bank for labor.

Where can I find the SPS cams?

Call Mark at Ducshop and talk with him a little bit. He should be able to provide insight into DP or SPS cams, there's also possibly VeeTwo cams available online through their eBay shop.

You can pull your heads and have them sent to DucShop or MBP to have them ported a bit.

Nichols lightweight flywheel.

Don't know if your exhaust is a full system, but that can open things up.

Lighten up the clutch.

Look at gearing.

Brake Rotors.

Lightening: Get rid of the world's heaviest battery. You could use a smaller conventional battery, or a 123A pack (Speedcell). Carbon fenders and tank. Replacing small parts with carbon is more decorative, but bigger parts give a measurable drop in weight. The brackets for several things on the bike are steel and don't need to be - Examples include the fuse box bracket on my bike. No reason for that thing to weigh so much. Headlight bucket is heavy and a carbon version is available. Replacing cast parts with billet - sidestand is very heavy, triple trees and rearsets..

The VeeTwo SPS 4v cams a no longer available, checked awhile back.

An option on cams would be SPS intakes and G grind exhaust. I would however do what the person helping/building recommends to get the most out of the motor.

links:

fuel cel- http://www.eti-fuelcel.com/DUCATIMONSTER.HTML (http://www.eti-fuelcel.com/DUCATIMONSTER.HTML)
pistons- http://www.ducshop.com/product_view.php?cat=6&pid=267 (http://www.ducshop.com/product_view.php?cat=6&pid=267)
flywheel- http://www.ducshop.com/product_view.php?cat=12&pid=334 (http://www.ducshop.com/product_view.php?cat=12&pid=334)
clutch- http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1652%7CMonster%20Clutch&productID=2262&showDetail=1&categoryID=1681 (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1652%7CMonster%20Clutch&productID=2262&showDetail=1&categoryID=1681)
custom machined parts- http://home.comcast.net/~aortner264789mi/FirstPage/1stpage.htm (http://home.comcast.net/~aortner264789mi/FirstPage/1stpage.htm)

If your looking for a specific part post up.

very helpful. thanks guys.

+1 on the BSTs they were by far the best upgrade I put on my S4. I'll be doing the rotors too before I  get around to upgrading the engine innards too. The guys at motowheels are great it's more than worth the $ they have for them. Just make sure you have your wheels put on by someone competent. I went through hell with mine.

I drive to Nashville from time to time. If you want to test my bike out to get an idea of what a difference the wheels make.

I also have a set of ST4S headers along with the stock cans if your wanting to keep the low mount exhaust look.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=34274.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=34274.0)

 "used Ducati S4 full Termignoni titanium system $500 shipped"

Yeah they would be great, message me when your headed though. Thanks for the offer.

My 01 S4 w/ 30k miles; tweaked for lightness (now if I could lose some weight... :P).

Mag wheels, carbon tank (DP, but no leaks after a full bit of reparation) pod air intake, shortened arrows, braketech rotors (front), numerous TI bolts and a few other tasty bits that I find aesthetically pleasing.

(http://applewood.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Ducati-S4/IMG4578/777977295_W2D8V-L.jpg)

Ok, so I am mulling the BST wheels. You guy's really believe in the performance vs cost ratio over piston/cams? What would my red Marchesini's be worth? Thoughts on Ohlins forks? I want performance, and would help cosmetics as well. Or would I be better of saving money with Race Tech and have the forks powder coated?

Don't pc the forks - makes installation a pregnant dog with the increased diameter and risk of scratching. Vinyl wrap or anodize!

Also, I'm a big fan of upgrading the internals - race tech or full cartridge internals would be more effective than some R&T forks, imo.

Ok. So Race Tech internals, anodized. 
What's needed to change to a bar style instead of the odd S4 one piece clip-ons? I'm all ramped up now. Almost sold my bike tonight for $3k, I would have hated myself. I'm seeing this project through

Another option, besides RaceTech, could be Traxxion's internals (or full cartridge kits).

The full cartridge kit is essentially replacing the fork, except the exterior tube, slider, and lower  (meaning there's no problems with finding correct axles and brake adapters, etc). Its a very nice way to improve the package.

Traxxion has 20 or 25mm internal kits, and even offer gas charged.
RaceTech has a G2-R 25mm kit
Ohlins has a 25mm and a new 30mm (iirc). You can always have the forks anodized Gold to alert everyone to its ohlins-ness.

Wonder if anyone in Nashville anodizes?

Check out that chopper shop near the museum, a block or so away from Alain's shop. Around that 90deg right turn. They may provide some leads.

Try Dan Kyle racing (http://www.kyleusa.com (http://www.kyleusa.com)), he can anodizes your forks and put Ohlins internals in. He had some pretty great deals going with revale kits and rear shock combos.

I would also check with LE, http://www.le-suspension.com (http://www.le-suspension.com).


You are going to need to change the top triple completely and get clip ons.

Option (good choice if parts are available [roll]):

http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1204%7CMonster&productID=6435&showDetail=1&categoryID=45 (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1204%7CMonster&productID=6435&showDetail=1&categoryID=45)

http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1204%7CMonster&productID=4069&showDetail=1&categoryID=45 (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1204%7CMonster&productID=4069&showDetail=1&categoryID=45)


Here is my setup (CC clip ons, Alex Ortner custom top triple, Speedymoto lower, DP dampener):

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/billybongthorten/Foggy/11.jpg)



I thought you posted that you had Mag wheels? If you have stock wheels the difference is going to be night and day. I think a fair price for your stock wheels would be $600-800.00, if you call Motowheels they will give you trade in towards a set of BST's.

 

Just for clarification, be sure to get your fork tubes hard anodized and not just anodized.  BIG difference.

Anyone have the link for that smaller battery? The midget one, that's tiny? Saves weight

Here you go SpeedCell:

http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myProducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=915%7CBatteries%20and%20Battery%20Accessories&productID=6814&showDetail=1&categoryID=915 (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myProducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=915%7CBatteries%20and%20Battery%20Accessories&productID=6814&showDetail=1&categoryID=915)

Whatever you do don't get an Odyssey bat, they are junk. The 3 that I have a had, have come new in the box with 65% or less life.

I rather have a big fat Rizoma bar instead of clip-ons. What's needed for that swap? Going for an old cafe look.

I have a bar and adapters that bolt right up to the S4 triple. Not sure who made them, but they work great. I thought about doing the swap, but I like the look feel and adjustablity of the clipons. Lemme know if you interested I'll send you a pic.

Send it on, send it on!

If the s4's forks are 50mm... i'll sell you my stock s2r 1000 top triple with bar mounts for cheap... have it annod or pc whatever color you want and add whatever 1-1/8" bars you want.

That would only work if the S4 steering stem diameter and offset size were also the same. I think it is, but I'm not certain. There is a change from 01 to 02 bikes.

That's true... i'm not sure if it will fit, but if it will  [thumbsup]

I'm curious now. How can we find out for sure big boys?

I'm almost positive it was only on the air cooled bikes.

1993-2001 air-cooled bikes were on the 888-derived frame which used the older triple dimensions.  2001 - 2008 water cooled bikes and air-cooled bikes 2002 -2008 were on the ST-derived frame which uses the newer style triples.

Should fit w/o issue.

Amen for Stew. Pass the salt please!

I knew the older (93-01) Monsters and Supersports used the same steering stem size as the 888 (and really quick offset on the Monster), but wasn't sure about the S4, which was a bit of an oddball in that it was a watercooled DSS...

Anyone sitting on some rearsets....just sayin

Crap, lost out on a CF tank.

What mod's are needed to make this work:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390148978829&viewitem= (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390148978829&viewitem=)

Different shock (IIRC) and something to make 6 speedo signals per wheel rotation versus the 4 on this brake rotor.  Different exhaust system too.

If you're thinking of going THAT far...  just sell your S4 and buy an S4R.  996 motor and this swingarm already on it.

  ANh, too much work. I'll keep my set up, add the BST's, paint, few little mods. So pissed I missed out on that CF tank. My heart sank when I called and it was gone. Not even a Duc owner bought it, some stupid ass Yammy custom build. Yes I'm bitter, be better tomorrow

What else will be needed to transplant S4RS/999?

gadzooks. I think you need to sit down in the throne room and have a thinking-spell about what you are looking for in a bike.

The S4 has a great deal of power for the road, if you are looking for more "go" and you like the SSS, then I'd say sell and get an S4RS. You'll save money, get the trick suspension and bigger motor. You can still put BST's on it.

immense amounts of work.  Not worth it.

BST & Rotors it is. I'm done, promise. I just think, way too much. My ADD. I'm sitting down on Omni, sketching the mods out. Sticking to it. I just want torque, speed, and to feel it. Guess I'm partial to my S4 since I have almost 7K in it thus far. And I'd never get that back out of it. You guys are right, shave weight off, that's were the most performance bang for the buck will be.

Words of wisdom from a moto-X racer in the 70's (sorry...but I don't remember who it was):

There's nothing lighter than a hole.



Go buy a drill and drill set.  [thumbsup]

If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, here's some thoughts:

ETI Fuel-Cel
BST Wheels
Lightweight Carbon Ceramic Rotors
Billet Calipers
Billet triple set
Nichols Flywheel
Lightweight Clutch (hub/basket/plates/pressureplate)
Racetech Internal for forks, or Traxxion/RaceTech/Ohlins cartridge kit
Upgraded rear shock
Damper
Quick(er) turn throttle tube

Ditch all the abs plastic on the bike and replace it with carbon fiber parts (headlight bucket, mounting brackets, etc), some of these you would have to make yourself (such as the airbox/battery tray, undertail area, etc). Remove unnecessary brackets and other parts, and replace with lightweight counterparts if possible.

Good tips. I have CF fender, hugger, side panels, various pieces. Billet Rizoma belt covers.
Hoping with my itemized items for taxes, I'll get a nice chunk back and can get the BST's soon.
Then on to the ailing clutch, then paint, then tank, weight reduction, triple, suspension etc.

How about ditch the ABS plastic and ...don't replace it with anything. 

Remember:  air is cheaper than CF and weighs less too.

Here's a thought:

Run 1 Carbon-ceramic disc mated up to a 4-piston/4-pad SBK caliper w/some premium pads.  Saves the weight and you'd only have to equip the bike with 1 of each.

Parts/links? Stew, thanks for taking so much time to help me out, and keeping me from blowing a wad on useless crap.

Rotor:

http://www.braketech.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=95 (http://www.braketech.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=95)

Caliper:

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=20.7850.11 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=20.7850.11)

I couldn't find which pad on the braketech site would work best w/the CMC rotor but you can contact them to see what's up....

Great, thanks. So let me make sure I'm following. Replace one rotor/caliper front/back, instead of the duals on now?

Can I remove the airbox, use stacks/filters with my current setup?

You'd be replacing two heavy, moderate quality brakes on the front of the bike for one extremely good brake which would likely equal the performance of the old setup while reducing unsprung weight.


Pods to remove the air-box?  Yes you can do it but it will require re-mapping the air/fuel ratio, likely a piggy-back efi controller (Power-Commander III is a popular one) and a trip to a shop that can re-program the bike for you.

Ok, hm, may be more trouble than it's worth to remove airbox. Hell I will have almost $14K in this when I'm done.lol Pay to play

Nick at Motowheels said $3300 plus freight for BST's. Sound right for board members? Someone on here told me $2800 they paid

Sounds about right. It depends on the market as well as the bike.

May keep a watch out. use Google search feature to email me anytime that models mentioned for sale.

Found some for $2K, for an RR, can't be modded to fit?

How much in trade did they say they would give you for your wheels?

Didn't ask, thought best to move here or Craigslist

Buying Quat D, best to move away from DP ECU? Power Commander, other?

I say no. The DP ECU it bumps up the RMP rev limit. Same with the power commander. I bet someone has posted a base map with a similar setup to work from before you tune the bike on a dyno.

What did you decide on the handlebars?

the PC doesn't adjust the RPM limiter/fuel cutoff. the DP ECU does.

Where I meant same was to not move away from. Can see how it coulda been misleading...

This may be worthwhile, some high comp pistons
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DUCATI-JE-Pistons-96mm-for-851-888-916-4-valve-engine_W0QQitemZ320490755787QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4a9ebcd6cb#ht_500wt_1182 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DUCATI-JE-Pistons-96mm-for-851-888-916-4-valve-engine_W0QQitemZ320490755787QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4a9ebcd6cb#ht_500wt_1182)

If you are thinking about doing it, here's some more ideas:

Ferracci 984cc Kit (big bore/stroker): http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=196 (http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=196)

Ferracci 955cc AMA Race Kit: http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=194 (http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=194)

Ferracci Hi-Comp / 955 HC Pistons Only: http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=192 (http://www.ferracci.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=192)

what kind of performance could expect from just the pistons?

Certainly a gain from high comp, a bigger gain from big-bore high comp, and something ridiculous from the 984cc.

The 955 is nice, but I'd make sure a competent engine builder does the work on any of the bore/stroke kits. There's been lots of favorable and unfavorable 955 discussions in the past.

Others will certainly be better equipped to discuss this. Also, give Ducshop a call, since they are 'nearby'

I've heard mixed review on JE pistons... Pistal seem like the way to go.

The biggest big bore kit you can go to without the expense of boring the cases and the decrease in reliability associated with that is 933cc. You may luck out and already have the cases that can accomodate a bigger bore but there is no way to check other than to break it down.

I was told that HC pistons would be good for 8-12whp

You mean the 936 (ish... 935.8cc)? That's only 1 mm diameter bigger than factory bore. I haven't torn into a 916, but that seems odd.

Buy a 996 motor it will be cheaper than a big bore upgrade.  St4s/s4r will work.  ~1k and you can still sell your motor.

Keep the bike upright also helps.

Nice. I've made it through rain,. sleet and snow. Was a dry day, low tread on the front, and some road salt.

No I believe it is a straight 933 - this is a 1mm overbore - perhaps you lose the extra 1.4 cc per cylinder because of the Nikasil coating.

I was told this by several very reliable sources at performance engine shops and boring out the cases is a solution but costs big money

Interesting. I've never run across such a small over-bore Duc. Its like the 924 kit for 900cc Monsters and Supersports that was apparently available. (and quite dumb imo.)

Don't you have to install a single side swing arm?

there are ways around that.

Not if you use an ST or S4R 996.

The cases are different than SBK.

How would I integrate these masters into my setup, they have a built in reservoir?
http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/product.asp?idproduct=43&source=thumb (http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/product.asp?idproduct=43&source=thumb)

Aren't they normal radial masters? Looks like it - meaning you'd need remote reservoirs.

that I cannot tell exactly from the pics, looks like no, from the pictures. I cannot find a website fore the company.

Those are standard radials. You have to use remove reservoirs. Never heard of the brand. Maybe look for Spiegler, ISR, Brembo, etc.

I had some PT radials ,not good [evil] ,don't buy them

Thanks for the heads up. They look good, but if they don't function, it's just semi-art.

Well chaps, looks like the thumb doesn't want to play ball with the rest of the team, surgery tomorrow afternoon. Using k-wire if possible, plates if worse. Stinks all happens at once. Keep me in prayers, vibes, what ever your preference is.

Good luck  [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

Some good news at this point, DuckStew has my SBK front end done, and it's freakin gorgeous. Top notch work, he took my idea, and made it a reality. Man has vision. Too bad I'm gimped up, on STD, to complete at this moment. Very anxious to get this done. Good things take time, The Duc (Duke) will be a piece of artwork.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4425834546_863303734b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4425837170_dfdecfdee4.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4425838150_fc67c3b7e1.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4425074533_d0bf133ed7_b.jpg)

Nice  :o  I really like that front end  [thumbsup]

sweet!  are the forks anodized?

yes

must not look at this thread  [bang]

you are costing me money!  BUT I likes.  ;D

Bikes torn down almost completely. Trying to figure out how to remove the throttle bodies to drop the motor.
So, here's what's on the agenda:
frame PC black
black mag Marchesini's
Fuel Cel- black w/Ducati 3D logo red
Motogadget M Unit fuse box, M switches, Motoscope/Sign gauge, m-Lock Digital remote ignition/starter lock
Nemesis ECU or a re-flash of the DP unit to delete immobilizer
Quat Exbox/ Boom Tubes
Spiegler brake lines   black lines/red banjos
LSL Rear set
LSL steering dampener
Rizoma handle bar/red
swing arm PC black
calipers etched black
new billet clutch set up/red pressure plate
CF headlight basket/mounts, trim ring PC black
clear headlight lens w/HID
LED smoked tail  light
Rizoma reservoirs brake red/clutch black
Rizoma bar end mirrors black
Rizoma grips black

Can't wait to see it!  [thumbsup]

What did you decide with the engine?

leaving it stock. See if I can get a Nemesis and dyno'd, coax a bit more out.

You are going to run in to some difficulty in trying to do a CF headlight bucket AND a clear headlight lens. The DP Carbon Fiber headlight bucket is not compatible with the Desmoworld Clear-Glass Headlight (which is a complete headlight. You can still powdercoat the Desmoworld's headlight ring though. DDM HID kit fits fine in it as well. No problem with the CF headlight brackets though. I suggest PC'ing the U-bracket while you are there.