Ducati Monster Forum

Some pics from my most recent trackday (11/15/09). Critiques of form are welcome and appreciated. One thing I already knew and can see in these pics is that I need to get my upper body lower, especially on right turns, which I'm less comfortable with for some reason.

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB151936.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB151992.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB151991.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB151998.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB152009.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB152016.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB152108.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB152063.jpg)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/shivvy80/PB152028.jpg)

it's quite common for riders to favor a side.

Nice track bike!  Looks like fun--which track are you at?

npr (http://www.noproblemraceway.com/)?

and it's usually that side.  my theory is that's the throttle-hand side.  for sure you look more comfortable going left.  my suggestion would be to deliberately lower your chest an inch or two closer to the tank going right; you'll increase your turn angle slightly and start to be more comfortable on that side.

looks great!

I don't know, but there's more concrete and tires than NHMS. :o

I have to consciously remind myself to bend my elbows. It helps me with my upper body.

Correct. Jebus, the man knows EVERYTHING  ;D

gm2, that was what I was guessing (throttle side) - I think that in trying to be careful with my throttle control, I tend to keep more tension in the right arm and don't bend my elbow as much. Thanks to you and Nate.

scary...isn't it. [laugh]

What is that green stuff in between and surrounding the concrete track?


mitt (locked in a never ending winter hell)

Someone gave me some advice for my upper body. Try to have your forearm as close to the tank as possible. What does that mean, if you're turning right have your left forearm touching the tank. Basically helps you lowering your upper body more towards the tank.

I've been to a few track schools, and I think the most common feedback that I've heard (for me and everybody else) is to get the upper body lower.  You don't look twisted though, which also seems common.  

Ken Hill always says something like "nobody is getting too low with their upper body.  I'll let you know if you get too low, so just keep working on it."

Sounds like good advice. I've done 1 track school last May (Schwantz at Barber). That's about when I first started learning to really body position, and it helped immeasurably. I may try to do another school this year, dependent on money and time.

...aim your chin for the outside of your in-turn handlebar/clip-on.

Looks good, mang.   [thumbsup]

From the pictures, you *might* want to focus a bit on getting tighter on your apexes.  Don't worry about going fast as much as about cleaning up your lines.  Fast will come (and will come more easily and comfortably) when your lines are more dialed in.


This is good advice.  I often catch myself with my butt too far off and my head not far enough off.  The way I correct is I get set up for the turn and at turn in, I consciously bring my outside elbow/forearm into the tank and at the same time, try to move my head down to kiss my knuckles on the inside hand (and then move past my hand) [Edit:  gm2 just said the same thing while I was typing this post].  It's one single motion.  It also reminds me to look through the turn.  As my head goes down to my knuckles, I start ticking off my reference points.  If you really focus on getting your head down and forward, the rest of your body will follow.

Visualizing what I'm trying to do also helps.  I try not to think of it as hanging off the bike (I never liked that expression).  I think of it as standing the bike on the outside of my body/the turn.  I let it stand up out there and move around and absorb the bumps.  Meanwhile, my body is tucked on the inside of the turn, and I'm focusing on where I want to go.    

FWIW, I'm much more comfy on my right turns than my left.  

I'm going to definitely try the "kiss the knuckles" technic. Thanks Spidey!

Cool, I like this. 


I was there last May, too.  What dates?  It rained the whole time I was there.

Yeah, you're probably right about the lines. Here's the track layout:
http://www.circuitgrandbayou.com/TrackMap.aspx (http://www.circuitgrandbayou.com/TrackMap.aspx)

The pics are all taken in turns 10 and 11. I've got the 12-13-14 transition worked out pretty well, but I need to work on 10-11-12. Right now, all I worry about in 10-11 is getting into 12 where I want, so the first 2 could stand to be cleaned up.

I also need to learn to use landmarks better in 10-11.

Then we were probably there at the same time (beginning of the month - I think 5/5-6?)
I was riding in the 2nd group (non-racers/less track experience). Within that group, I started in C and finished in A. Had an absolute blast in spite of the rain, and working on the skills through the rest of the summer, I felt like a completely different rider than where I started.

I was there over Memorial Day, 5/25 - 5/26, I think.  I also enjoyed myself in spite of the rain.  I got lucky and won the free tires, too  ;D.

Like some other people said, lay your outside arm (left arm in a right hander) across the tank so that it's literally just lying on the top of the tank. You don't want your ass all the way off the bike, try putting one cheek off and leave the other on. You should set your body position well before the corner. Once you've set yourself up, have a quick look at what on the bike is directly in front of your face. If it's the middle of the screen, you're not hanging off (or you're crossed up). You should be looking at your knuckles (kiss your knuckles like Spidey said) and your head should be about where your mirror may once have been. It's really important to relax and not be stiff or tense, that won't help you either. Regarding the right hand turn issue, as gm2 mentioned, I think it might be due to your (our!) throttle/brake hand. I've started holding my right hand at an angle as part of my setup to make it easier for me to get into the correct position and feel comfortable doing it. You also look like you're not looking far enough through the corners, when you're about 10/15 feet away from the apex you should be spotting your next point (exit cone). Same applies to street riding, the 12 second rule. It's important to remember that sight distance still applies at a track and may well help you hit your line better which is really important (and about all I can do because I'm really slow! [laugh]).

Looks like you had a good time which is the main thing. [thumbsup]

Mind you, my form is nowhere near perfect but trying to get it right is part of the fun. The guy behind me doesn't have the best form by a long shot but was a lot faster than me.
(http://photos.toshcroft.com/Bikes/2009-07-03-STT-Monticello/02637NOVSTT070309/581784219_tnRiQ-M.jpg)

I'm better on my left side too:
(http://photos.toshcroft.com/Bikes/2009-07-03-STT-Monticello/00675NOVSTT070309/581769583_BMSMh-M.jpg)

Thanks for all the advice. I went for a ride yesterday and started working on some of these things: lowering the chest, trying to move my further down and forward, etc. It's already making a difference. I felt more smooth and comfortably yesterday than I have in a while.  [thumbsup]

This thread is missing the obligatory Doohan shot:

(http://donmidgley.com/images/doohan.jpg)

I wish I was as fast as Doohan, but I wish I looked like Spies:

(http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/260766/images/spies.jpg)

...only you don't necessarily want to model your elbows after Elbowz.  ;)

(http://www.roadracerx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/spies_sepangnorthcott_ws.jpg)

Some other exceptions to the traditional rules that come to mind:

(http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4116003-md.jpg)

(http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/212792/images/Troy-Bayliss.jpg)

(http://www.nosolodeportes.com/images/2009/02/tony-elias.jpg)

(http://www.roadcarvin.com/sites/default/files/images/Larry_Pegram_6829.preview.jpg)

does your wife know? ;D

shhh, that was just an elbow example.  and i didn't bring it up first.   [cheeky]

Duhamel also has a bit of a crossed up style and he's older than most of us and faster by a long shot.

great advice. i've found that trying to get my head to be where my stock mirrors once were is working well.

I tried this over the weekend. I don't have clip-ons so the bars are pretty wide, so the kissing the knuckles approach was more useful than the "touch the tank". It felt very comfortable and I was able to carry more speed through the corners. Thanks again Spidey!

They're all great advice,i will def give it a try next track day.  [thumbsup]