Seriously, is it really that hard?
I know there are a fair amount of people on this board that have probably never seen snow outside of a ski resort or of an upbringing in a snowy area, but I am sure there are plenty of members that get snow.
I grew up in Northern Indiana (South Bend) and snow was very regular due to "lake effect snow" as it is called.
I recall when I was in high school (1995-1999) that we RARELY got snow days. Most snow days were due to extreme temperatures, not snow fall. I recall several times going to school with 12in of snow on the ground.
make the beast with two backs, here in Columbus Ohio, 4inches absolutely destroys this town. It is pathetic.
Driving in the snow is not hard. Maybe because when I started to drive, my friends and I would make the beast with two backs around in vacant parking lots doing donuts and learning the art of counter steering with breaking, etc. Also might have helped me my best friend is a professional race car driver who grew up in USAC on dirt tracks. Who knows.
Yeah, I have an AWD Lexus RX300 and a front wheel drive Jetta TDI. I am not sure which is better in the snow, or for me, which is more fun to drive.
I was in the Lexus on Monday (wife had work off, I let her have the AWD SUV when it snows as her experience is not as broad as mine) and it was a make the beast with two backsing blast. I made a left out of my complex onto a 5 lane somewhat major road. No traffic and figured, what the make the beast with two backs, let's spin this sucker around and keep going left. I got about 180 around and my brain kicked in and figured if there was a LEO around, he/she would know what I was doing as it was obvious. Therefore, with a little gas, brake, and steering, I was back in the proper direction.
I just don't get what the deal with snow driving is!!!!
1. 4WD/AWD doesn't make you better in snow; you still can't stop faster
2. Going 5mph causes more problems
3. Morons, Morons, and Morons.
/////rant off.
didn't you post this last year?
Recall a snow driving thread.
Agree..if you were brought up in the midwest/northern states and cant drive in it..you are an f'ing 'tard!
Quote from: IZ on February 16, 2010, 07:15:52 PM
didn't you post this last year?
Recall a snow driving thread.
Agree..if you were brought up in the midwest/northern states and cant drive in it..you are an f'ing 'tard!
I probably did.
Don't lump midwest with driving in the snow.
I currently live in the midwest and people in Columbus have no make the beast with two backsing clue how to drive in it.
You need to live, in my opinion, about 20mi south of the great lakes line and north to properly drive in the snow if you live in the midwest.
These morons in their big SUV's make the beast with two backsing kill me. They are the ones always in the ditch.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 16, 2010, 07:07:44 PM
Driving in the snow is not hard. Maybe because when I started to drive, my friends and I would make the beast with two backs around in vacant parking lots doing donuts and learning the art of counter steering with breaking, etc.
what'd you break? ;D
The amount of drama that snow causes in a particular city is inversely proportional to the amount of snowfall that city gets every year.
3" snow here in Seattle and it's anarchy on the roads, and no one has school. Just the hint of snow in the forecast sends the media into full blown panic reporting. The last mayor didn't get re-elected largely due to the city's poor response to our major (for the area) snowstorm in January 2009 (maybe December 2008, can't remember).
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 16, 2010, 07:07:44 PM
1. 4WD/AWD doesn't make you better in snow; you still can't stop faster
4WD/AWD does make you better in the snow, compared to RWD (also FWD, but much less so)...but you're dead on about stopping. Most don't get the stopping concept. I think they get too comfortable with their perceived control, and let their speed get away from them. When I lived in Reno I had a 1/2 ton Chevy 4x4 with 33" tires and a 5" lift. It was awesome, and excellent in the snow...as is my current stock Xterra. Yet...most of the cars in the ditch were SUVs and large 4x4s there. [roll]
(I also had a late 80's Nissan Sentra when I lived there. Also very good in the snow...especially because it had good ground clearance for a compact)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 16, 2010, 07:22:17 PM
I probably did.
Don't lump midwest with driving in the snow.
I currently live in the midwest and people in Columbus have no make the beast with two backsing clue how to drive in it.
You need to live, in my opinion, about 20mi south of the great lakes line and north to properly drive in the snow if you live in the midwest.
These morons in their big SUV's make the beast with two backsing kill me. They are the ones always in the ditch.
OK..you're right on that. [laugh]
Agreed with Triple J..any snow in Seattle and you're parking at the bottom of your hill and walking up! I can drive like a pro in snowy conditions but those hills in that place are crazy!! Snow driving skill isn't going to save you from sliding uncontrollably down those steep grades! Ugh..memories of the motorcycle show downtown.
I have much more appreciation for "other" drivers after hearing about the stress my nieces are going through trying to get their driving hours in to get their licenses. ****Driving in the lake effect area north of - and often worse than - where you grew up CB along Lake Michigan. "Perfect" drivers riding their 15 and 16 y/o behinds, the gestures....while they're still learning.
Hearing the stress that these impatient, perfect drivers is causing them has made me back off and not get so wound up with how "poorly" someone else is driving.
@TripleJ - Yeah, it does make you better in the snow, as you have more traction, but these morons drive their usual 15+ over the speed limit of 40 and wonder why they go off the road or rear-end another vehicle while stopping. Sure, you can drive faster and beat shit up better in a straight line, but stopping won't help you.
@stella - I grew up by lake michigan with the lake effect snow. I could be at lake michigan in 40mins from my house. I know the snow around that area. It dumps hard and it dumps make the beast with two backsing fast. I just grew up with my parents driving in it, learned from them, and practiced when I got my license, along with advice from them.
The difference is the type of snow you receive. Northern areas of the "great lakes" area gets a nice, cold snow. Not some piece of shit wet snow. It is completely different to drive in.
I get pissed off because even if it snows, you don't need to drive 5mph to get to your destination.
Want to get to the real problem?
The type of plows used.
The plows here that the city uses are like your typical parking lot trucks: a front scraper blade.
That is NOT how you scrape off small amounts of snow.
You need under mounted scrape blades.
Disadvantage: It make the beast with two backss up the roads.
Ask Grifo.
He can tell you all about the pot holes in south bend.
Advantage: It cleans the roads
@derby: I hate you again
no one is a good driver in the snow
not even pastrana
the snow conditions change hour by hour
the consistency and the traction afforded
it all changes
not to mention that rarely do individuals drive in the snow 24/7
it holds true with motorcyclists that live in seasonal areas
they ride really well at the end of the season and shitty at the beginning
now take that thinking to snow
it's not around very often, its properties change constantly, and when you are getting the hang of it
it melts and is gone
ok
eventually i'll end up living in north dakota.
i was born and raise is hawaii, where ppl can't drive in RAIN. but i'm afraid of the idea of driving in snow. bf says he has to take me home during xmas, so i can enjoy the snow. :P
Ok.... I see your gripe.
I've lived in central Minnesota... guaranteed snow.
I've live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area... guaranteed snow.
I now live in Fargo, ND.... LOTS OF make the beast with two backsING SNOW, and constant wind!
I could go on for pages of this thread with my rants on people's inability to drive in snowy/winter conditions...
We get one major storm a month. Sometimes a lot of snow with 20+ mph winds, others are 1-2 inche with 20+ mph winds. Either way, we get drifting and VERY icy roads.
I drive a 96 Volvo 850 with snow tires (non studded), and laugh my ass of every time it snows, at how many 4x4 pickups and 4x4 SUVs that I see in the ditch. In 5 years of living here, I have not even come close to getting stuck or going in the ditch.
People are make the beast with two backsing stupid, and leave too much up to their vehicle when it comes to driving in winter weather.
Fack, we have longer winters than most of the country.... almost more winter than summer, and people still can't drive.
You should see it down here in the south. A 2 inch prediction has grocery stores packed with ravenous families stacking their carts with enough milk and bread to last 2 weeks. The people out on the roads have no clue what to do. They start to slide, and slam on the brakes. The overconfident SUV drivers don't slow down at all and careen into the nearest ditches. It's apocalyptic.
People in Columbus seriously make the beast with two backsing suck at driving in the snow or just driving period.
Case in point, on the freeway today going 65 (speed limit) nothing at all on the road and some make the beast with two backser going 20 pulls right in front of me in the make the beast with two backsing fast lane and wants to stay there going 20 mother make the beast with two backsing miles an hour. Makes me want to follow the guy and beat the make the beast with two backsing piss out of him. I don't care how fast you want to go but don't do it in the mother make the beast with two backsing fast lane. Nothing in the world besides talking during a movie pisses me off more.
People here freak the make the beast with two backs out when there is snow on the ground!
...and ranting on the internet will undoubtedly solve the problem. [thumbsup]
No it won't but it sure will make me feel better, in fact I am.
Ranting on it here helps me not go ballistic and end up in jail for assault.
I took a snow and ice driving course a few years back... Toyota Camry with an outrigger setup with wheels on it... then an instructor in the back seat can control which wheels have traction and how much traction via a remote in his hands... then we drove around a race track.... faster and faster... being thrown into spins and trying to stop before hitting cones... it was super fun. I know that I became a better snow driver because of it.... but it just means I go a lot slower on the snow... and I know my limitations. Oh... and I know how much fun it is to throw yourself into a spin and try to steer out of it. ;D
But I agree people in general suck at driving in the snow. Even myself... I just mitigate it by adjusting to the conditions.
Quote from: metallimonster on February 17, 2010, 03:15:44 AM
No it won't but it sure will make me feel better, in fact I am.
Ranting on it here helps me not go ballistic and end up in jail for assault.
Relax...
I wasn't referring to you specifically.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 17, 2010, 03:21:09 AM
Relax...
I wasn't referring to you specifically.
Oh I wasn't taking it personally just stating that it actually does make me feel better. One of the reasons I love being a part of this place.
no matter where you go you will have somone complaining that the drivers suck in (insert weather condition here)
people either go too fast, or way too slow.
and sometimes you have a jackass on a motorcycle riding through it while someone in one of those awd suvs is crying because they are so scared to drive.
remember 4wd awd is not magic it only pushes your screw up point to a faster speed so that when you finally do screw up you are now going faster and you possibly can kill more peoplle. congratulations [clap]
but seriously, 4wd does not help in these conditions.
1. when you are braking does not help you stop any faster
2. when you are coasting and not on the gas, 4wd does nothing at this point. i think this is where most people screw up, they don't realize that fif you are turning and not on the gas you are no different than a rear wd car at that point.
4wd only helps you Not get stuck, meaning when you start from a stop you may not get as stuck or stuck as someone else and when you have momentum it may help you not get stuck in teh first place since you have 2 extra tires with a pushing motion. but that is about it.
ice is ice, regular rubber on ice no matter how much 4wd you have isn't helping worth a damn once you lose traction and are skidding.
Quote from: ryandalling on February 17, 2010, 03:16:15 AM
I took a snow and ice driving course a few years back... Toyota Camry with an outrigger setup with wheels on it... then an instructor in the back seat can control which wheels have traction and how much traction via a remote in his hands... then we drove around a race track.... faster and faster... being thrown into spins and trying to stop before hitting cones... it was super fun. I know that I became a better snow driver because of it.... but it just means I go a lot slower on the snow... and I know my limitations. Oh... and I know how much fun it is to throw yourself into a spin and try to steer out of it. ;D
But I agree people in general suck at driving in the snow. Even myself... I just mitigate it by adjusting to the conditions.
I've always wanted to take one of these classes when I have been in CO skiing, but never wanted to give up a day of riding to take one. It has been a few years since I have been out there, but there used to be one in Steamboat. Looked fun as hell.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 17, 2010, 03:21:09 AM
Relax...
I wasn't referring to you specifically.
He was probably referring to me who started the post.
Quote from: sbrguy on February 17, 2010, 05:10:45 AM
remember 4wd awd is not magic it only pushes your screw up point to a faster speed so that when you finally do screw up you are now going faster and you possibly can kill more peoplle. congratulations [clap]
but seriously, 4wd does not help in these conditions.
1. when you are braking does not help you stop any faster
2. when you are coasting and not on the gas, 4wd does nothing at this point. i think this is where most people screw up, they don't realize that fif you are turning and not on the gas you are no different than a rear wd car at that point.
4wd only helps you Not get stuck, meaning when you start from a stop you may not get as stuck or stuck as someone else and when you have momentum it may help you not get stuck in teh first place since you have 2 extra tires with a pushing motion. but that is about it.
ice is ice, regular rubber on ice no matter how much 4wd you have isn't helping worth a damn once you lose traction and are skidding.
Exactly.
Anybody in New England interested in learning how to drive on snow and ice this coming Sunday there is a 4 hour 44 minute endurance ice race on Sabattus Pond staring at 10 am with the New Meadows Ice Racing Assocation. My buddy that I race with is going to Florida today so I get to do the whole race as the solo driver, oh yeah!
My last winter driving was 11 years ago in Detroit w/a RWD S-10 p/u with an automatic. I went out bowling w/my G/F in 11 inches of un-plowed snow w/o a problem (and we had 14" by the time we were done bowling).
Driving in the snow is an art learned in parking lots before they plow and taking your time. People don't do either, so no matter what they drive...they end up in the ditch or spinning their wheels like that'll help out any... [roll]
the first few storms are bad, by this time of the year most people are already up to speed.
but, we have lots of idiots from 3 different places that move here and don't have a clue how to drive.
1 the southern californian. whoa dude, this snow is totally awesome, I've got to be the first one to the ski basin, so let me drive my subaru too fast and slide off the road. whoaa awesome.
2 the texan. I glad done got me this biggass truck, 2" of snow! I'm sure glad I got me these chains to tear up the road with! then I'm gonna go drive around at 4 MPH cause I don't want to end up like that guy in that sooobarruuu..
3 the mexicans. WTF IS THIS WHITE SHIT! is ok bro, I've got tires 3' wide on my rear wheel drive trucka. is bueno I'll just drive like a total burro, OMG why isn't my trucka stopping! oh god I'm sliding threw the intersection in a highly uncontrollable manner, whoops, hit that parked car, I'll just drive away like no one saw me, it doesn't matter, I stoled this license plate from a kia and I don't have a license or insurance anyways.
I like the morons that go play in parking lots when they are half covered in snow and then snap an axle while doing donuts.
A friend of mine's 17yr old son did it last year.
Idiot.
How else are they going to learn?!?
I live accross the street froma school that has a big parking lot with one light pole in the middle. Kid next door wraped his truck around it a couple of year ago. It was awesome!
bet he won't do THAT again! LOL....
I witnessed a guy selling a car in a parking lot once and was demonstrating the power it had by doing dry donuts with it. Clouds of pillowy white smoke must have obscured the concrete and steel light pole. The car hit the pole right in the middle on the passenger side and bent up the roof and caved in the side. Pretty much totaled it. It was hilarious!!!!! Couldn't stop laughing.....until the guy saw me and my friend and started to run after us. We jumped in our car and took off...
PERFECT TIME FOR THIS RANT!!!!!
Some asshole punk kid T-Boned me in a parking lot yesterday "because of the snow"
He was in his 4x4 Jimmy thinking that you can do 25 in a parking lot, in the SNOW! I saw him look right at me, whip his wheel around to the left thinking he was going to turn,...
BOOM
smashed the drivers side of my car up!
I got out of my car screaming!!! He was driving too fast for a parking lot, even more-so one covered in 4" of snow, unplowed and unsalted !!!!
I asked him what the F he was driving so fast in a PARKING LOT...COVERED IN SNOW?!?!?!
"ummm I dont know, it's the snow's fault"
No asshole the snow didn't smash the side of my car. Thanks.
Quote from: sbrguy on February 17, 2010, 05:10:45 AM
remember 4wd awd is not magic it only pushes your screw up point to a faster speed so that when you finally do screw up you are now going faster and you possibly can kill more peoplle. congratulations [clap]
but seriously, 4wd does not help in these conditions.
1. when you are braking does not help you stop any faster
2. when you are coasting and not on the gas, 4wd does nothing at this point. i think this is where most people screw up, they don't realize that fif you are turning and not on the gas you are no different than a rear wd car at that point.
4wd only helps you Not get stuck, meaning when you start from a stop you may not get as stuck or stuck as someone else and when you have momentum it may help you not get stuck in teh first place since you have 2 extra tires with a pushing motion. but that is about it.
ice is ice, regular rubber on ice no matter how much 4wd you have isn't helping worth a damn once you lose traction and are skidding.
if you have the automatic selector for 4wd then it comes in handy when you have gotten in over you head and are starting to lose the back end. ;D
slides in 4wd cars are so much more controlable than fwd cars, but the fwd cars are more fun.
i feel like a doofus playing in a rwd car because i keep spinning out :-[
one day i'll get good enough to hold a slide in a rwd car at the same speed i can in a fwd.
A Prius has no reason to be out in the snow either.
Quote from: mookieo2 on February 17, 2010, 09:08:14 AM
A Prius has no reason to be out in the snow either.
i wanted to smack the shit out of someone driving one yesterday
it's snowing. snow is accumulating on the road, they jump out in front of me close enough for me to put on the brakes pretty hard and proceed to go very slow.
you should really rethink having a drivers license if you are getting yelled at for going too slow by the guy on a motorcycle.
Quote from: KnightofNi on February 17, 2010, 07:13:35 AM
slides in 4wd cars are so much more controlable than fwd cars, but the fwd cars are more fun.
Totally agreed on this one.
You can correct an issue much easier with AWD/4WD then with a front wheel.
I just love driving my front wheel jetta because it has a nice E-Brake which is clutch for sliding into parking lots of just general drifting around 90 degree corners.
I can't for the life of me drive properly in the snow here :-\
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 17, 2010, 10:50:08 AM
Totally agreed on this one.
You can correct an issue much easier with AWD/4WD then with a front wheel.
I just love driving my front wheel jetta because it has a nice E-Brake which is clutch for sliding into parking lots of just general drifting around 90 degree corners.
you think thats fun..
I run snow tires up front and summer tires out back on my beater winter car (97 passat wagon vr6)
I don't need no hand brake to initiate a slide, go wide into the corner, steer in lightly, let off the gas while steering in heavyer, then feather gas and drift around, sliding out too much give a bit more gas, to little turn in more [evil]
I get around fine with out the snow tires, but getting up my driveway is IMPOSSIBLE with out them.
I don't drive my AWD car in the snow, not because of my driving, but because other people suck and I don't want it getting t-boned by a prius with low resistance tires and failing brakes ;D
Quote from: acalles on February 17, 2010, 12:13:05 PM
you think thats fun..
I run snow tires up front and summer tires out back on my beater winter car (97 passat wagon vr6)
I don't need no hand brake to initiate a slide, go wide into the corner, steer in lightly, let off the gas while steering in heavyer, then feather gas and drift around, sliding out too much give a bit more gas, to little turn in more [evil]
I get around fine with out the snow tires, but getting up my driveway is IMPOSSIBLE with out them.
I don't drive my AWD car in the snow, not because of my driving, but because other people suck and I don't want it getting t-boned by a prius with low resistance tires and failing brakes ;D
Wow, that does sound like a shit ton of fun!!!!!!!
My brother has an Audi A4, which of course is all wheel drive.
For some odd reason, he has to run snow tires on it. He doesn't have low profile rims or anything for the summer seasons, just basic stock A4 rims and standard tires.
But I guess it does absolutely shit in the snow. So he bought some cheap Audi stock rims off ebay and some snow tires.
still doesn't make sense to me.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on February 17, 2010, 12:16:56 PM
Wow, that does sound like a shit ton of fun!!!!!!!
My brother has an Audi A4, which of course is all wheel drive.
For some odd reason, he has to run snow tires on it. He doesn't have low profile rims or anything for the summer seasons, just basic stock A4 rims and standard tires.
But I guess it does absolutely shit in the snow. So he bought some cheap Audi stock rims off ebay and some snow tires.
still doesn't make sense to me.
What doesn't makes sense? Quality street tires suck in the snow. They pack full of ice and essentialy turn into slicks...all while the cold makes them hard. Good snow tires clear the tread as you drive (well, better than normal tires), and are made of a compound that works better on ice.
diablo stradas work pretty well in the snow ;D
Quote from: Triple J on February 17, 2010, 12:44:43 PM
What doesn't makes sense? Quality street tires suck in the snow. They pack full of ice and essentialy turn into slicks...all while the cold makes them hard. Good snow tires clear the tread as you drive (well, better than normal tires), and are made of a compound that works better on ice.
He has typical street tires, the tread is really no different then my Jetta's.
It is really kind of weird.
and my brother is no moron when it comes to vehicles. He knows his shit.
If I didn't have a company car, the car I owned would have a second set of wheels shod with either Bridgestone Blizzaks or Michelin Pilot Alpins for the winter, regardless of it's drive configuration. It completely changes the dynamics of the vehicle.
I've even had the opportunity to drive a Blizzak shod car around the Pepsi Center (on the ice) during the inaugural Gran Prix of Denver years ago. We even lined up an identical car with all-weather tires and I had a field day with them! [evil]
If you ever get a chance to attend the Bridgestone Winter Driving School in Steamboat, I highly recommend it. Not only did I learn a lot about driving in adverse conditions, it is hella fun! http://www.winterdrive.com/ (http://www.winterdrive.com/)
Living in Soldotna Alaska, I drive on snow covered roads half the year.
The key is tires. AWD, FWD, RWD doesn't matter as much as what kind of rubber you're running.
On my modded VW TDI I run 225-17's in the summer and studded 185-15's in the winter. (wider is not better in the snow)
The wifes 335xi is shod with Blizzak's in the winter and the oem tires in the summer.
One really fun Alaskan weather phenomenon happened last winter....3 weeks of -20 to -40 then it warmed up to the mid 30's and rained. Which turned everything into a sheet of ice with a layer of water on it. You could definitely tell who was running real snow tires vs all seasons.
people who drive too slow in the snow are morons
and the people who drive too fast are maniacs
;D
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on February 17, 2010, 06:44:04 PM
....the car I owned would have a second set of wheels shod with either Bridgestone Blizzaks or Michelin Pilot Alpins for the winter, regardless of it's drive configuration. It completely changes the dynamics of the vehicle.
+1
Night and day difference.
Quote from: sno_duc on February 17, 2010, 09:06:46 PM
Living in Soldotna Alaska, I drive on snow covered roads half the year.
The key is tires. AWD, FWD, RWD doesn't matter as much as what kind of rubber you're running.
On my modded VW TDI I run 225-17's in the summer and studded 185-15's in the winter. (wider is not better in the snow)
The wifes 335xi is shod with Blizzak's in the winter and the oem tires in the summer.
One really fun Alaskan weather phenomenon happened last winter....3 weeks of -20 to -40 then it warmed up to the mid 30's and rained. Which turned everything into a sheet of ice with a layer of water on it. You could definitely tell who was running real snow tires vs all seasons.
Amen sno_duc!!! When I lived in AK all my cages had 2 complete sets of tires and wheels. Although it wasn't eco friendly, I did run with studded snows. A friend of mine tried Blizzak's and swore they were as good as studded snows. With the 4wd I was able to have good traction for starting and cornering and the studs made stopping almost as easy as on dry roads. What I really learned was to drive more defensively. When a light turned green good snow drivers would wait until everyone was done sliding through the intersection. At the first snow of the year we all had to relearn our skills and 6 months later most drivers were experts (a noteable few never learned). Temperature had a huge affect on traction. At 0 or less traction was good at 32 or higher the snow was max slick. One's driving had to change as the temps changed.
Quote from: akmnstr on February 18, 2010, 04:55:40 AMWhen a light turned green good snow drivers would wait until everyone was done sliding through the intersection.
36th and the New Seward??? [laugh]