I'm interested in having it done on my S2R 800. Inspired by Brad Black's write-up on the subject.
Tech at my dealer said it might make services more complicated, but wasn't able to specify.
Does anyone know what I should expect in terms of extra work? One, two, three hours pr service??
Any opinions about this modification?
My 800S were 5-6 degrees off nominal 110.5 centerline. I had never done it before and it took me 6 adjustments on the horizontal and 8 on the vertical to end up about 2 degrees away from the way they came from the factory. [bang]
I should have just measured and left it alone, but I got caught in the "going to do the shims and cams on the Desmo" thing.
Spent the better part of an evening, mostly trying to figure out how to set up the degree wheel pointer and the dial indicator to get the cam rise. It wasn't that hard to do at all, though. Don't have a good number for time estimate, as it was mostly a science fair project thing and there was Guiness involved.
Don't know why they are saying that to you. Shouldn't matter unless the cam belts are removed/replaced.
Somebody with more experience will chime in soon.
The only way I could image it affecting the service is if the change required the "dots" to not line up. BUT with the current sprockets and their built in adjustability, I can't see that being the case. This could be a case of the customer wandering into uncomfortable territory for the technician, so the tech dissuades said journey. ???
Quote from: chris on February 17, 2010, 11:43:38 AM
The only way I could image it affecting the service is if the change required the "dots" to not line up. BUT with the current sprockets and their built in adjustability, I can't see that being the case. This could be a case of the customer wandering into uncomfortable territory for the technician, so the tech dissuades said journey. ???
He talked about having to make some "custom" dots. You're saying it won't be necessary, for certain, with the adjustable sprockets? (is that the same as cam pulleys?)
He wasn't against it, but he
did look a little off his territory (you know, the uneasy body language)
I guess the head tech will do it without concerns.
Quote from: stopintime on February 17, 2010, 12:47:37 PM
He wasn't against it, but he did look a little off his territory (you know, the uneasy body language)
I guess the head tech will do it without concerns.
I was a head tech in the Navy. They gave me a special brush and everything!
Quote from: NorDog on February 17, 2010, 12:52:28 PM
I was a head tech in the Navy. They gave me a special brush and everything!
Was I using "head tech" incorrectly? I haven't seen any special brushes at his desk....
Quote from: stopintime on February 17, 2010, 12:47:37 PM
He talked about having to make some "custom" dots. You're saying it won't be necessary, for certain, with the adjustable sprockets? (is that the same as cam pulleys?)
He wasn't against it, but he did look a little off his territory (you know, the uneasy body language)
I guess the head tech will do it without concerns.
Whoa!
If he's that out of his depth I'd make sure someone else does it.
Brad did mine and when I change belts I just use the painted dots on the Vee Two pulleys he put there. There's no issue.
I could have done it (dog slow and cursing) but it's cheaper for me to work a few extra hours overtime and pay Brad to do it perfectly and real fast. Even cheaper for you late model guys.
Quote from: stopintime on February 17, 2010, 01:00:17 PM
Was I using "head tech" incorrectly? I haven't seen any special brushes at his desk....
Did he have any Ty-D-Bowl hanging around?
The dots should line up exactly the same as they do now.
Quote from: NorDog on February 17, 2010, 02:15:33 PM
Did he have any Ty-D-Bowl hanging around?
Aha, now I understand the head tech job you had in the Navy ;D
It seems almost everyone who measures them finds them about 5 degrees out one way or the other. I had to do mine because one came loose and the bike was running on only one cylinder. I only figured that out with the help of this board, thanks Howie :) The other one was several degrees out. I degreed both of them and after several nudges back and forth managed to get them within a degree of where they should be. It was a pain to do but it was worth it, the bike runs so smooth now.
You will not need special dots. The dots/arrows are on the pulleys which are in the same place they always were. When you degree the cams you move the cam relative to pulley. Based on that comment and the scared look I would not let that tech work on my bike. Find someone who gives you a casual, "Sure, we can do that." without looking frightened or having to think about it.
Scott
I did mine several years ago. One cylinder was off about 7 deg and the other 2. I blew my engine shortly after that and thought the problem was some error that I had made. Found out later there was another problem that had caused the failure. It is not that difficult to do. I wouldn't recommend that you have it done by someone that is apprehensive.
I'm after the possible extra power and wouldn't mind smoother as well, although I think my bike is very smoth as it is.
Isn't it strange that stock bikes are delivered so many degrees off?
i think its more common on the big-line models like the Monster.
Quote from: ato memphis on February 18, 2010, 03:20:59 PM
i think its more common on the big-line models like the Monster.
I don't believe that's true.
I think that a SBK is just as likely to be the same amount off.
my only justification is by production numbers - if you are getting an R-model, i'd expect them to be spot on.
Quote from: ato memphis on February 18, 2010, 03:26:05 PM
my only justification is by production numbers - if you are getting an R-model, i'd expect them to be spot on.
I don't expect anything assembled in a factory to be spot on.
If I buy oem adjustable pullies from a newer bike could they be used on my 99 monster?
Agree. Once saw a claim it took a Honda factory right around one hour to assemble a Fireblade from scratch.
Quote from: stopintime on February 18, 2010, 12:23:27 PM
I'm after the possible extra power and wouldn't mind smoother as well, although I think my bike is very smoth as it is.
Isn't it strange that stock bikes are delivered so many degrees off?
Smooth is a combination of degreed cams, TPS reset, spot on valves with 0+ closers, throttle body synch, and idle speed and CO set properly.
Which kind of power are you after? Advancing the cams from stock position provides less low end torque but more top end power and speed. Retarding throws things the other way. Just a few degrees here, don't get too crazy. Others with more knowledge might be able to advise you how much.
Scott
Quote from: Some Dude on February 18, 2010, 03:36:45 PM
If I buy oem adjustable pullies from a newer bike could they be used on my 99 monster?
I believe they will, but no FHE.
Vee two may have some stock left that will fit your bike for certain.
I contacted them through their ebay store, and they said to keep watching ebay because they would run them one last time and put them up in the near future.
SD, I noticed your bike has new cams, what kind of cams you got in that bike?