Trying to upgrade my meter base/service.
This type of work involves having the poco come out, turn off the power to the meter from the transformer, remove and replace the cabinet on the outside of the house, run wire from the meter base through the existing hole in the wall to the panel in the basement.
These people coming by to give me quotes are sofa king we todd ed it ain't even funny. $1800 was the cheapest, $2700 was the most expensive.
Meter base = supplied FREE by Poco
150 amp disconnects $109 x 2 = 218
40' of 2/0 wire $1.98/ft = $~$80
Permit fee $50 includes inspector fee
Poco turning power on/off = free
So....for a grand total of $300, these "experts" want to make $1500-2400 off me IN A DAY, with about 3 actual hours of labor....MAYBE 3 hours. Bolting a cabinet to the wall, pretty simple task. Stripping the end of a wire, and feeding it to the lugs, a monkey can do. Pulling wire inside the house, again...monkey. Stripping other end of with and going to the panel, pretty easy again. Call inspector, comes out, tells you it's good (or if you screwed up what to fix). Fix it, Poco comes out, you've got power.
It's no damn wonder America is going to shit. It's such EASY work, yet people want to get paid for doing very little, and they want to make 3-400$ an hour to do it.
Had someone come out, gave me a quote at 1k or under, I'd have probably done it to a: support the locals, and b: no hassle aggravation for me.
Instead, I'll support the local electric supply place, do it myself, and probably buy that video camera that we've wanted for about a year.
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 19, 2010, 04:20:46 AM
Trying to upgrade my meter base/service.
This type of work involves having the poco come out, turn off the power to the meter from the transformer, remove and replace the cabinet on the outside of the house, run wire from the meter base through the existing hole in the wall to the panel in the basement.
These people coming by to give me quotes are sofa king we todd ed it ain't even funny. $1800 was the cheapest, $2700 was the most expensive.
Meter base = supplied FREE by Poco
150 amp disconnects $109 x 2 = 218
40' of 2/0 wire $1.98/ft = $~$80
Permit fee $50 includes inspector fee
Poco turning power on/off = free
So....for a grand total of $300, these "experts" want to make $1500-2400 off me IN A DAY, with about 3 actual hours of labor....MAYBE 3 hours. Bolting a cabinet to the wall, pretty simple task. Stripping the end of a wire, and feeding it to the lugs, a monkey can do. Pulling wire inside the house, again...monkey. Stripping other end of with and going to the panel, pretty easy again. Call inspector, comes out, tells you it's good (or if you screwed up what to fix). Fix it, Poco comes out, you've got power.
It's no damn wonder America is going to shit. It's such EASY work, yet people want to get paid for doing very little, and they want to make 3-400$ an hour to do it.
Had someone come out, gave me a quote at 1k or under, I'd have probably done it to a: support the locals, and b: no hassle aggravation for me.
Instead, I'll support the local electric supply place, do it myself, and probably buy that video camera that we've wanted for about a year.
I have to disagree with you.
Ever wired a house?
If being an electrician was so
easy and lucrative...you'd be doing it for a living. ;)
Actually, I've wired my entire basement. Nothing hard about it, each wire has it's place. I don't want to be an electrician, I like working airplanes. Hell, some of the best welders I've ever seen work down at the cape on space-craft stuff....and those guys arn't even approaching $100 an hour....and welding IS an art. Just like painting!
You can't possibly think that pulling a wire through a hole, plugging it in to a $100 panel on one side, and a 100$ disconnect on the other side is worth 1500...can you?
Maybe there are hidden costs that I don't see or know about that are intangible...? I could see insurance, what else?
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 19, 2010, 04:30:27 AM
Actually, I've wired my entire basement. Nothing hard about it, each wire has it's place.
It's not a freakin' art (like painting) is.....
You can't possibly think that pulling a wire through a hole, plugging it in to a $100 panel on one side, and a 100$ disconnect on the other side is worth 1500...can you?
My work is not art.
I wasn't implying that the particular job you're describing is mentally difficult.
That's not all that electricians do though.
Is the job worth that? Probably not.
Is being an electrician
easy? Definitely not.
I have a basic problem with any customer of any trade/profession pregnant doging about price and making general statements regarding how a monkey could do it.
I'm pretty sure a monkey can do my or your job with the proper training.
You have reached the logical conclusion...don't like the price...do it yourself.
Work air traffic? Some could, but most couldn't ;D, but that doesn't mean anything personal towards that person or any other.
Painting IS an art, not sure why you'd discount yourself like that. Sure, maybe mixing up the proper this and that to get the desired results might be partially learned through reading or training....partially. But spraying that stuff isn't something you can learn in a book, I know that for a fact [thumbsup].
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 19, 2010, 04:46:23 AM
Work air traffic? Some could, but most couldn't ;D, but that doesn't mean anything personal towards that person or any other.
Painting IS an art, not sure why you'd discount yourself like that. Sure, maybe mixing up the proper this and that to get the desired results might be partially learned through reading or training....partially. But spraying that stuff isn't something you can learn in a book, I know that for a fact [thumbsup].
Thanks, but that isn't exactly my point. I wish I could get paid what a welder makes.
The remuneration for different jobs in our society is whacked. I'll concede that.
Why do we pay lawyers so much? Why do we pay insurance companies, that may or may not honor the claim, so much.
We pay dearly for things our society thinks we should, yet the people in the trades...the ones that make shit work and our daily lives easier are relegated to monkey status.
I've been considered a monkey all my life and I'm tired of it.
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 19, 2010, 04:30:27 AM
You can't possibly think that pulling a wire through a hole, plugging it in to a $100 panel on one side, and a 100$ disconnect on the other side is worth 1500...can you?
Maybe there are hidden costs that I don't see or know about that are intangible...? I could see insurance, what else?
It must be worth that because they charge that and they get it......from most people. Would they get it from me? Probably not. I have the hardest time paying people to do things for me. Why? Because I'm good, know enough about most trades to be dangerous, I'm cheap, and nobody is going to pay as much attention to my stuff as I will. I however do not think it is something you could train a monkey to do. This relates to my post yesterday on the cost of college and how the US is losing or has lost respect for the trades.
You are in Atlanta right? I wonder if it is like in DC - high demand for services equals high prices. When I was doing remodeling on the side to save enough money to start my business, I would charge people insane hourly rates (time and material type jobs only) with one day minimums. The one day minimum thing is the kicker. Nobody around here is going to come out for a three hour call. It takes them time to buy parts, time to drive to the site, time to set up and take down. They have overhead to pay as well. So they are charging you for roughly a full day for a crew of 2-3. Same rates apply here in DC. I was appalled when I had 3 contractors price out a 2 story addition for my house. The lowest bid was $120k the highest was $160k. How much would it cost me anywhere outside the DC metro? Probably $70k. How much would it cost me if I was the general and knew enough subs to make it happen, Probably $50k. Were they a bunch of trained monkeys? No, they are charging what the market would bear. Even in this market most contractors had helatious lead times and it was damn near impossible to get the bids in the first place.
Would you balk if a surgeon said he was going to charge you $1800 for a 3 hour procedure? Perhaps the surgeon vs. electrician is not the best analogy - with the surgeon you risk your life, with the electrician, he risks his.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 04:57:30 AM
Thanks, but that isn't exactly my point. I wish I could get paid what a welder makes.
The remuneration for different jobs in our society is whacked. I'll concede that.
Why do we pay lawyers so much? Why do we pay insurance companies, that may or may not honor the claim, so much.
We pay dearly for things our society thinks we should, yet the people in the trades...the ones that make shit work and our daily lives easier are relegated to monkey status.
I've been considered a monkey all my life and I'm tired of it.
There's so much truth here, it's disgusting.
Why are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, and other tradesmen so expensive to us?
Because nobody wants to do any actual work anymore.
We call them "shit jobs," but like DP said, what they really are are the jobs most people dont want to do because they require to much physical work.
Simple laws of supply and demand. We need what they do, and they know we dont want to do it ourselves.
Skilled trades are going to be the wave of the future very soon, because there are without a doubt enough lawyers, traders, and other various desk jockies. I'm one of them.
What IS BS to me, however, is that the people who ARE willing to do these things themselves, can't because they don't have the proper "certifications" or "permits."
It's my house, and i WILL burn it to the make the beast with two backsing ground if i want to.
I say do it yourself if you're willing, make the beast with two backs the local regime.
Quote from: angler on February 19, 2010, 05:05:18 AM
<snip>
Would you balk if a surgeon said he was going to charge you $1800 for a 3 hour procedure? Perhaps the surgeon vs. electrician is not the best analogy - with the surgeon you risk your life, with the electrician, he risks his.
Not entirely true... ;)
do you have home insurance? If you do, they surely wont give a damn if you make the beast with two backsed up your own wiring.
Do you have fire insurance? If you do, they surely wont gie a damn if you make the beast with two backsed up your own wiring.
Do you have any knowledge of how electiricty works? Or do you just know where to crimp a wire? IF you don't then they sure wont give a damn if you burned your own house down.
A LOT of people do DUMB Shit that they shouldnt be messing with, and end up doing it wrong. Its idiots like that who make the govvie force people to have certifications and crap.
Quote from: angler on February 19, 2010, 05:05:18 AM
This relates to my post yesterday on the cost of college and how the US is losing or has lost respect for the trades.
That's funny... after your post about the trades, someone suggested becoming a plumber, and I was going to suggest becoming an electrician. They really aren't bad jobs.
I was a carpenter for most of my working life but got tired of the attitude most people had towards me. Almost as if the reason I had the job was because I had screwed up my life, or wasn't smart enough to do anything else. We have been brainwashed to think that these jobs are for people that couldn't or weren't smart enough to go to school. When you run into a
good plumber, electrician or carpenter they are usually smart people. Smart people that would probably kill themselves if they had to sit behind a cube all day. The bad eggs that take these jobs because they are screw ups don't last long and jump from job to job anyway.
More power to you if you can do it yourself, but I doubt it is the electricians fault the US is going down the shitter...
Quote from: Vindingo on February 19, 2010, 05:57:50 AM
That's funny... after your post about the trades, someone suggested becoming a plumber, and I was going to suggest becoming an electrician. They really aren't bad jobs.
I was a carpenter for most of my working life but got tired of the attitude most people had towards me. Almost as if the reason I had the job was because I had screwed up my life, or wasn't smart enough to do anything else. We have been brainwashed to think that these jobs are for people that couldn't or weren't smart enough to go to school. When you run into a good plumber, electrician or carpenter they are usually smart people. Smart people that would probably kill themselves if they had to sit behind a cube all day. The bad eggs that take these jobs because they are screw ups don't last long and jump from job to job anyway.
More power to you if you can do it yourself, but I doubt it is the electricians fault the US is going down the shitter...
This topic really burns me up sometimes. I went to a vocational HS and took a lot of vocational classes and a lot of college prep classes. There was no way anyone at that school was going to advise me to enter the trades. The same lack of respect was pervasive at the HS level - only the stoners and the flunkys ended up in a vocational track. Perhaps they were right. After 7 years of school beyond HS, I now can bill as high as a master plumber or electrician, yet they don't get any respect. Now, the vocational HS has become a thing of the past for the most part.
Quote from: angler on February 19, 2010, 06:27:24 AM
This topic really burns me up sometimes. <snip>
It's always burned me up.
"The future belongs to those still willing to get their hand dirty" R. Fairbairn
electricity scares me.
it's like magic.
think pulling a wire through a hole is expensive and difficult... try kicking a ball when surrounded by a bunch of felons
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10048/1036378-66.stm (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10048/1036378-66.stm)
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 06:32:43 AM
It's always burned me up.
"The future belongs to those still willing to get their hand dirty" R. Fairbairn
I thought that quote related to revolutions......
Where did you get that quote? I know it is a KMFDM lyric, but I'm guessing your not a KMFDM fan.......
How many quotes did you get, and were they from the places with the big ads in the phone book?
I had a similar experience when I first moved into my house. 1st guy cam out and said I needed a new box and breakers...$3K total. He was from a place that advertises al the time and had a giant ad in the phone book.
Second guy from a small place down the road just switched out the breaker causing the problem...<$75. problem fixed.
The 1st guy just thought I was a sucker...plus they have to pay for all that expensive advertising.
I agree with you though...home electrical work is fairly easy. My dad and I re-wired my whole basement when we remodeled it. Got a book from Home Depot...the concepts in your house are pretty simple.
Large scale electrical work on the other hand is some weird shit that I wouldn't touch. I saw the wiring for the tunnel boring machine we're using...NO THANKS!!
Quote from: angler on February 19, 2010, 06:57:27 AM
I thought that quote related to revolutions......
Where did you get that quote? I know it is a KMFDM lyric, but I'm guessing your not a KMFDM fan.......
years ago...like...maybe before you were born
my friend and I, who were working for $7.50/flat rate hour wrenching on bikes, would contemplate our lot in life.
That was his line....his name was R. Fairbairn
Who's KMFDM?
German industrial rock band
find a friend who is an electrician
buy him beer
job done for 24 bucks
Nate, maybe if you didn't look so much like said monkey... I keed I keed...
I am an ASE (er was) certified diesel mechanic. I am a union certified journeyman electrician (IBEW Local 347).
I maintain computer networks and systems for a living because I couldn't afford to live how I wanted in either of those trades. The pay just didn't allow it. I took a severe pay cut to enter my electricians apprenticeship and even working for a family member's very LARGE electrical and communications installation firm, was still way underpaid.
I think it's the sense of entitlement that has been the downturn of America. People feel like they are OWED things.
I will stop the line of thought here because if I express my feelings about how the government is perpetuating this, it WILL go political.
As for the costs...Union dues (if it's a small company with just a few employees), insurance, wages (not just for the electrician but for the office person(s) who prepare your bill and send it to you), materials (around here there is usually a slight markup for parts/materials), incidentals, paying for that inspection fee, fuel for the vehicle, etc.
All of that adds up. Granted, the cost for such a job is pretty prohibitive especially if you do have the knowledge and skill to do it yourself.
One time, I was out wiring a friend's garage. It was summer, the doors were open. His neighbor comes semi storming over and begins lecturing me about how I should have a certified electrician doing this and how he hated people like me for not supporting their local businesses and unions. He then hands me a IBEW local 347 business card and tells me I NEED to call them. I pull out my union card and hand it to him. The look was priceless as he realized how big of an ass he had just made out of himself.
But this is the type of mentality unions try to instill in their members. That if you aren't unionized then you have no clue what you are doing and I HATE that.
Anyway, rant over.
Do it yourself. Small projects are rarely cost effective when contracting them out. ESPECIALLY if you have a firm grasp of the principles involved in doing the job right. It definitely is NOT rocket science.
Quote from: ZLTFUL on February 19, 2010, 07:13:28 AM
Nate, maybe if you didn't look so much like said monkey... I keed I keed...
<snip>It definitely is NOT rocet science.
couldn't agree more.
(pm MrI on the spelling of rocket) ;D
Actually, what IS rocket science is keeping a keyboard free of debris when eating at your desk so the keys don't work and make your spelling look like hell... :P
the job costs 100 bucks
you pay the 2500 bucks extra for recourse
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 07:09:38 AM
years ago...like...maybe before you were born
my friend and I, who were working for $7.50/flat rate hour wrenching on bikes, would contemplate our lot in life.
That was his line....his name was R. Fairbairn
Who's KMFDM?
In the 80's there was this incredibly fey synthesizer band called Depeche Mode. Then this really hard and anarchistic industrial band thought it would be cool to name their band Kill Mother make the beast with two backsing Depeche Mode (KMFDM). It comes out of their song "Back in the USSA." I'm not trying to provoke, just an odd coinkydink that this quote generates a lot of talk about nationalistic/libertarian/anti-consumer/anti-nanny state rhetoric.
Vid
KMFDM - Back In The U.S.S.A. (Live 2004) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUUi_B5HZCA#normal)
I called about 15 people, all said they would come. 3 showed up, 2 gave quotes, one walked away when I asked him about using a free meter base that the poco would provide. Told me that would be too much work and end up costing more than it I just bought a cabinet complete with disconnects.
Lets see....wire up 2 disconnects to a meter panel with 4' max of wire....about 20 mins. $200 for the disconnects, $20 worth of wire, free meter base.
or
Buy the premade cabinet $600 so we didn't have to wire 2 disconnects.
I said "So you are telling me the labor to wire up 2 disconnects from a meter base will be $400?" his reply "probably". My reply "have a nice day".
Work will be permitted and licenses by the county, and the work I'll be doing will require an inspection before the poco will turn it back on. It's simple work, I'm not doing some crazy load calculation for a high rise here....
The thing that is SOOO aggravating. I don't mind paying a fair rate for someone to do work for me. Why wouldn't someone jump at the chance to come make 3-400 to do 2-3 hours MAX of work, I don't know.
I do know something though...the weather here is 55, and my new dirtbike gear from EVS just arrived. I'm going ridin' [moto] [thumbsup] ;D
Quote from: ZLTFUL on February 19, 2010, 07:18:56 AM
Actually, what IS rocket science is keeping a keyboard free of debris when eating at your desk so the keys don't work and make your spelling look like hell... :P
;D
Try it with a 3 yr old around.
I have a logitech hardwired usb that's outlasted 'em all. [thumbsup]
Quote from: angler on February 19, 2010, 07:20:55 AM
In the 80's there was this incredibly fey synthesizer band called Depeche Mode. Then this really hard and anarchistic industrial band thought it would be cool to name their band Kill Mother make the beast with two backsing Depeche Mode (KMFDM). It comes out of their song "Back in the USSA." I'm not trying to provoke, just an odd coinkydink that this quote generates a lot of talk about nationalistic/libertarian/anti-consumer/anti-nanny state rhetoric.
Vid
KMFDM - Back In The U.S.S.A. (Live 2004) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUUi_B5HZCA#normal)
We said it because we were broke and in a dead end job.
It was humor. :-\
Taft, how much do you feel like you should pay for this job?
$250-$300 seems fair for about 2-3 hours of labor, know now.
That for labor, not parts.
Working at the power company that you are probably dealing with I'll go ahead and say this:
I've seen my fair share of (crispy) metercans from people who thought "it can't be that hard..".
Your mileage may vary. Good luck! [thumbsup]
FWIW
Quote from: ZLTFUL on February 19, 2010, 07:13:28 AM
I think it's the sense of entitlement that has been the downturn of America. People feel like they are OWED things.
I will stop the line of thought here because if I express my feelings about how the government is perpetuating this, it WILL go political.
But this is the type of mentality unions try to instill in their members. That if you aren't unionized then you have no clue what you are doing and I HATE that.
Do it yourself. Small projects are rarely cost effective when contracting them out. ESPECIALLY if you have a firm grasp of the principles involved in doing the job right. It definitely is NOT rocket science.
+1
Doesn't really matter what kind of job a person has. We all just need to be more secure with ourselves and stop treating people like crap.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 07:16:33 AM
couldn't agree more.
(pm MrI on the spelling of rocket) ;D
Pointy end goes up. ;)
As for a monkey could do it....
IMO,
any job is easy if you know how. My job is easy if you ask me. Nate might have a different opinion.
He might tell me painting it's easy-but I congratulate myself if I remember to mask off the windows.
Shadowchaser probably thinks his job is cake, but I ain't getting no 18 wheeler out of a driveway, or around the first corner I find.
You only think those quotes are rediculous because you know what they actually need to do. If it was a secret box of mystery that delivers power, you wouldn't be so quick to rant about it.
Quote from: angler on February 19, 2010, 07:20:55 AM
In the 80's there was this incredibly fey synthesizer band called Depeche Mode. Then this really hard and anarchistic industrial band thought it would be cool to name their band Kill Mother make the beast with two backsing Depeche Mode (KMFDM).
KMFDM is an initialism for the nonsensical and grammatically incorrect German phrase "Kein Mehrheit Für Die Mitleid", which literally translates as "no majority for the pity" but is typically given the loose translation of "no pity for the majority" or "no mercy for the masses".
Derby makes me feel as if my Trvial Pursuit Regional crown is at risk...
Quote from: ZLTFUL on February 19, 2010, 08:21:02 AM
Derby makes me feel as if my Trvial Pursuit Regional crown is at risk...
the guy just knows everything.
it's easier to deal with it if you just give in.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 19, 2010, 08:09:29 AM
Pointy end goes up. ;)
As for a monkey could do it....
IMO, any job is easy if you know how. My job is easy if you ask me. Nate might have a different opinion.
He might tell me painting it's easy-but I congratulate myself if I remember to mask off the windows.
Shadowchaser probably thinks his job is cake, but I ain't getting no 18 wheeler out of a driveway, or around the first corner I find.
You only think those quotes are rediculous because you know what they actually need to do. If it was a secret box of mystery that delivers power, you wouldn't be so quick to rant about it.
Mr I's post reminds me of a story I found in the book I based the creation of my consulting business on......it goes something like this.
ACME Widget Company's main widget stamping line goes down. They call a prominent widget stamping engineer. He says it will cost ACME $125/hour plus travel expenses with a one day minimum charge. He shows up at the ACME factory, walks right up the the widget stamping machine, pokes and prods for 15 minutes and hits it with a hammer in one very particular location and the stamping presses jumps back to life. The ACME bean counters are furious and don't want to pay $1000 plus travel for something so simple. To this the consultant replies that he will change his bill to read $31.25 for hitting the machine with the hammer and $968.75 for knowing where to hit the machine with the hammer. If they don't want to pay he'll gladly shut the machine back off and let production stop again.
That is how I run my pricing and the exact story I tell clients when the ask "why so much." You are paying for expertise......
Quote from: derby on February 19, 2010, 08:17:14 AM
KMFDM is an initialism for the nonsensical and grammatically incorrect German phrase "Kein Mehrheit Für Die Mitleid", which literally translates as "no majority for the pity" but is typically given the loose translation of "no pity for the majority" or "no mercy for the masses".
Awww come on! I didn't think anyone would call me out on that.......we always thought of them as Kill MF'ing DM (most 'mericans did).
around here, to install a service (and almost every thing else) you have to be certified by the city. So they charge around 1800 for switching a service. We had an electrician at work from a city a few hours north. He did services there for about $700 but couldn't do it in this city.
I do everything else in my houses except for that service. It's not rocket science but it does take knowledge and care to make sure it's right. I have the code books and access to masters and journeymen at work if I have a question.
There are codes for a reason (tho some don't make sense): some idiot did somethign stupid and killed someone or burned down the house. If it's YOUR house no one cares. But when someone moves into your house and it burns down or kills someone.....
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 19, 2010, 07:23:01 AM
The thing that is SOOO aggravating. I don't mind paying a fair rate for someone to do work for me. Why wouldn't someone jump at the chance to come make 3-400 to do 2-3 hours MAX of work, I don't know.
Are you being quoted a bit much for the job you want done? Yes. Can you do it yourself? Seems like you think so. So why are you wasting all these guys time having them come to your house to give you a quote? You don't seem to realize there are costs involved with owning/running a business and those have been listed by others, but they also include the time it may take them to warranty or stand behind a job.
I have bid roof installations for about 12 years now. I'm pretty good at reading a cold call. If I see the need, I add a bunch of money for what I call the PITA (pain in the ass) factor. It's usually for engineer type guys. You know, the ones that tell me the best way to do the installation and then ask me to itemize each individual part and the time it will take to install it. ;)
Not to mention you don't get to dictate what the market price for the job is. The market does. I bid and sold a roof last Friday. I spent an hour there and will spend maybe another hour in the future dealing with the job. I made over $2,000. Why? Because that's what the market will bear, that's what other companies charge, and lastly, I have a sweet commission structure that I can demand because I have brought in millions of dollars worth of business. Should I make over $1,000 an hour selling a roof and less then $40 an hour risking my life working the graveyard shift as a cop in LA County? Hell no. But that's the way things are.
If you don't want to pay the price for the qualified, licensed professional and are able to do the work yourself , more power to you (no pun intended :))
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 19, 2010, 04:20:46 AM
Trying to upgrade my meter base/service.
This type of work involves having the poco come out, turn off the power to the meter from the transformer, remove and replace the cabinet on the outside of the house, run wire from the meter base through the existing hole in the wall to the panel in the basement.
These people coming by to give me quotes are sofa king we todd ed it ain't even funny. $1800 was the cheapest, $2700 was the most expensive.
Meter base = supplied FREE by Poco
150 amp disconnects $109 x 2 = 218
40' of 2/0 wire $1.98/ft = $~$80
Permit fee $50 includes inspector fee
Poco turning power on/off = free
So....for a grand total of $300, these "experts" want to make $1500-2400 off me IN A DAY, with about 3 actual hours of labor....MAYBE 3 hours. Bolting a cabinet to the wall, pretty simple task. Stripping the end of a wire, and feeding it to the lugs, a monkey can do. Pulling wire inside the house, again...monkey. Stripping other end of with and going to the panel, pretty easy again. Call inspector, comes out, tells you it's good (or if you screwed up what to fix). Fix it, Poco comes out, you've got power.
It's no damn wonder America is going to shit. It's such EASY work, yet people want to get paid for doing very little, and they want to make 3-400$ an hour to do it.
Had someone come out, gave me a quote at 1k or under, I'd have probably done it to a: support the locals, and b: no hassle aggravation for me.
Instead, I'll support the local electric supply place, do it myself, and probably buy that video camera that we've wanted for about a year.
Having done meter replacements for people with the same attitude that you seem to have, I can only say
Good luck, and don't forget the wire lube.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 04:39:43 AM
My work is not art.
Oh, I disagree. :)
I've done enough body/paint work in my past life to know that it is an art of sorts.
Quote from: Speedbag on February 19, 2010, 12:04:09 PM
Oh, I disagree. :)
I've done enough body/paint work in my past life to know that it is an art of sorts.
smoke and mirrors...
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 12:10:04 PM
smoke and mirrors...
I tried CRG lanesplitters and a cohiba.
My paint still looks like it was applied by an epileptic ferret.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 19, 2010, 12:15:13 PM
My paint still looks like it was applied by an epileptic ferret.
keep at it...
you'll figure it out... ;D
..
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 12:18:00 PM
keep at it...
you'll figure it out... ;D
Maybe a pipe and the bathroom mirror.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2010, 12:22:25 PM
what's in the pipe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv21qW7SQo# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv21qW7SQo#)
Quote from: hbliam on February 19, 2010, 10:22:53 AM
I have bid roof installations for about 12 years now. I'm pretty good at reading a cold call. If I see the need, I add a bunch of money for what I call the PITA (pain in the ass) factor. It's usually for engineer type guys. You know, the ones that tell me the best way to do the installation and then ask me to itemize each individual part and the time it will take to install it. ;)
BINGO! I would overbid too if i feel like the home owner is going to be a pain in the ass. Charge you for the shit ill have to deal with, meaning you. Id rather not make any money.
Now being said monkey, or electrician, iv'e done a few services changes. But i want to say our prices averaged 1200+ For a simple overhead box replacement, and it does take all day with three people working. We usually just cut the power lines ourselves instead of waiting for the power company. But you never know what your going to encounter when you finally get it opened up. Home owners do some weird shit some times. 2-3 hours of work, not likely. Oh and they get parts and wire at wholesale cost, so subtract a few percentage points from the cost you calculated, assuming those prices are from your local hardware store.
Like someone said your paying for expertise. We would be able to spot a problem, where no doubt you can do the job yourself, but a obvious issue will probably slip right past.
Just make sure you live near a Home Depot and/or electrical supply house.
Im guessing 4 trips......anyone care to make it interesting?
[evil]
Quote from: rgramjet on February 20, 2010, 05:08:12 AM
Just make sure you live near a Home Depot and/or electrical supply house.
Im guessing 4 trips......anyone care to make it interesting?
[evil]
Free tip from the pros, buy way more stuff than you think you need, when the job is done, return the unused stuff. 2 trips. Assuming you know what you may need when you first show up.
can either of you guess what he will definitely forget...
and the inspector will never pick up on?
edit...
and probably isn't even required by the NEC
no, hint?
compound
Quote from: DanTheMan on February 20, 2010, 05:52:01 AM
Free tip from the pros, buy way more stuff than you think you need, when the job is done, return the unused stuff. 2 trips. Assuming you know what you may need when you first show up.
My problem is that I now do that except I dont return the stuff. Its just about gone full circle. I now have the stuff that I will need "in stock".
Electric supply place is right around the corner from me, ordered what I needed today (late). Ready for pickup monday, but I won't have a day off until next week...
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I did know about and get some noalox compound, and I'm even prepard to torque the lugs properly to the specs listed for aluminum wire [thumbsup] I might forget something, but I'm sure my buddy will double check what I've done before the 'spector gets here. No longer licensed as he's moved on to other things, but he'll get a few benjamens just for coming by to double check me....
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 11:52:51 AM
Electric supply place is right around the corner from me, ordered what I needed today (late). Ready for pickup monday, but I won't have a day off until next week...
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I did know about and get some noalox compound, and I'm even prepard to torque the lugs properly to the specs listed for aluminum wire [thumbsup] I might forget something, but I'm sure my buddy will double check what I've done before the 'spector gets here. No longer licensed as he's moved on to other things, but he'll get a few benjamens just for coming by to double check me....
wise guy eh? ;D
Remember to think like a monkey.
Good luck with it.
I struck some nerves with the monkey comment didn't I? Gotten about a half dozen PM's about it. Well, I'll eat a bannana before I start in the AM [thumbsup]
Guys, seriously. It's the internet. What I call a group of people shouldn't bother you in the least. In fact, if you actually knew me, it shouldn't ever cross your mind that I might REALLY think a group of people or tradesman are unskilled, idiots, monkeys, high school dropouts, whatever..... Anyone that does their job as well as they can and to a high degree of skill should be respected, without a doubt. Just because I come on an internet forum and bash 2 idiots that want to make 2 weeks worth of wages in 3 hours, doesn't mean I don't fully understand there are plenty of places where these people should make that or MORE. Just that the job I require doesn't warrant the asking price.
Bolting a pre-made cabinet on the wall, and then pulling wires through a hole and plugging them into the other side doesn't require $300 an hour labor.
/end [thumbsup]
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 12:21:51 PM
I struck some nerves with the monkey comment didn't I? Gotten about a half dozen PM's about it. Well, I'll eat a bannana before I start in the AM [thumbsup]
Guys, seriously. It's the internet. What I call a group of people should bother you in the least. In fact, if you actually knew me, it shouldn't ever cross your mind that I REALLY think a group of people or tradesman are unskilled, idiots, monkeys, high school dropouts, whatever. Anyone that does their job as well as they can and to a high degree of skill should be respected, without a doubt. Just because I come on an internet forum and bash 2 idiots that want to make 2 weeks worth of wages in 3 hours, doesn't mean I don't fully understand there are plenty of places where these people should make that or MORE. Just that the job doesn't warrant the asking price.
Bolting a pre-made cabinet on the wall, and then pulling wires through a hole and plugging them into the other side doesn't require $300 an hour labor.
/end [thumbsup]
but we don't know you...and can only take your words at face value.
I worked as an electrician...so what you call tradesmen, which I still am, does bother me and the rest of the hard working tradesmen here.
Good luck with your project.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 20, 2010, 12:29:47 PM
but we don't know you...and can only take your words at face value.
I worked as an electrician...so what you call tradesmen, which I still am, does bother me and the rest of the hard working tradesmen here.
Good luck with your project.
Well put, I was too angry to write something that makes so much sense
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 12:21:51 PM
Just because I come on an internet forum and bash 2 idiots that want to make 2 weeks worth of wages in 3 hours, doesn't mean I don't fully understand there are plenty of places where these people should make that or MORE. Just that the job I require doesn't warrant the asking price.
There you go again. Now their idiots? Apparently they make two weeks of your wages in 3 hours. Who's the idiot? [laugh]
Hope your project goes well. Don't make us change your name to McFry2.
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 12:21:51 PMJust because I come on an internet forum and bash 2 idiots MORE[/u]. "master electricians whom I have no interest in dealing with" that want to make 2 weeks worth of wages in 3 hours, doesn't mean I don't .....
There, is that PC enough for ya? What kind of skin do you have, is it thinner than a latex glove? Please send me your address 1KDS, I'll ship you a whaa-burger and Whine-a-kin to wash it down [cheeky] You know, when somone bags on what I do, I don't take it personally. I know what I can do, what I can't, and how good or not I am at it. Being comfortable in your own skin is a nice thing....and getting upset because of some jerk on the web??? Come on.....
Who the hell is Mcfry, and why the make the beast with two backs would I be lumped in with him....? I waaay more of an asshole than I let on, but I try and stay civil. [laugh]
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 02:39:58 PM
<snip>
Who the hell is Mcfry, and why the make the beast with two backs would I be lumped in with him....? I waaay more of an asshole than I let on, but I try and stay civil. [laugh]
It's either him or the monkeys...
you should probably quit while you're even.
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 02:39:58 PM
Who the hell is Mcfry, and why the make the beast with two backs would I be lumped in with him....? I waaay more of an asshole than I let on, but I try and stay civil. [laugh]
Your a bit slow today. Mc
FRY, like in electrocution. Bueller, Bueller?
I'm not upset that you wasted those poor guys time. I'll just add $500 to my next bid for having read this thread. :D
Quote from: ducpainter on February 20, 2010, 06:49:27 AM
compound
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 11:52:51 AM
noalox compound,
Aw so it has a name, we would just call it the paste or goo for aluminum wire. Why the hell would you use aluminum wire if your doing it new? Existing wires aluminum?
Code for us here we had to use the noalox.
Quote from: DanTheMan on February 20, 2010, 02:48:21 PM
Aw so it has a name, we would just call it the paste or goo for aluminum wire. Why the hell would you use aluminum wire if your doing it new? Existing wires aluminum?
Code for us here we had to use the noalox.
It's always up to the AHJ
Quote from: DanTheMan on February 20, 2010, 02:48:21 PM
Aw so it has a name, we would just call it the paste or goo for aluminum wire. Why the hell would you use aluminum wire if your doing it new? Existing wires aluminum?
Code for us here we had to use the noalox.
Existing wires are aluminum, and unless I want to change out the current disconnect/panel to copper wire, I'm supposed to use the same stuff (so I'm told). Might be wrong about that, but no point in doing the new one in copper and leave the old one there in al. 2/0 from the supply place is 1.98 a ft....No idea what copper would be, but I'd guess 5-6$ per foot?
Quote from: hbliam on February 20, 2010, 02:47:55 PM
Your a bit slow today. McFRY, like in electrocution. Bueller, Bueller?
There, I fixed it [cheeky]
Being a dumbass is tough sometimes :D
Silver and gold are better conductors. I mean if you're going to do it yourself, you might as well make it as good as you can. [thumbsup]
you would only have to buy 1AWG copper not 2/O
Quote from: hbliam on February 20, 2010, 02:18:30 PM
There you go again. Now their idiots? Apparently they make two weeks of your wages in 3 hours. Who's the idiot? [laugh]
Only if they manage to get someone to pay those prices...
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 02:59:07 PM
Existing wires are aluminum, and unless I want to change out the current disconnect/panel to copper wire, I'm supposed to use the same stuff (so I'm told). Might be wrong about that, but no point in doing the new one in copper and leave the old one there in al. 2/0 from the supply place is 1.98 a ft....No idea what copper would be, but I'd guess 5-6$ per foot?
Copper only for us out here.
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 20, 2010, 02:59:07 PM
Existing wires are aluminum, and unless I want to change out the current disconnect/panel to copper wire, I'm supposed to use the same stuff (so I'm told). Might be wrong about that, but no point in doing the new one in copper and leave the old one there in al. 2/0 from the supply place is 1.98 a ft....No idea what copper would be, but I'd guess 5-6$ per foot?
you can use copper in an alu house, you just have to make sure they don't touch. if you have a location where the copper comes to a joint, you have to use a juncture box that has clampdowns.
the issue is that aluminum doesn't flex well and can crack, which leads to increased resistance at a bend which means heat and fire risk.
if you are pulling wire, try to run new, don't pull the old alu out unless you do ALL of it. alu wire runs can pull on other wires and cause the problems.
you can have alu and copper coming into the same main breaker box though.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 22, 2010, 06:04:56 AM
you can use copper in an alu house, you just have to make sure they don't touch. if you have a location where the copper comes to a joint, you have to use a juncture box that has clampdowns.
the issue is that aluminum doesn't flex well and can crack, which leads to increased resistance at a bend which means heat and fire risk.
if you are pulling wire, try to run new, don't pull the old alu out unless you do ALL of it. alu wire runs can pull on other wires and cause the problems.
you can have alu and copper coming into the same main breaker box though.
I bet an electrician would know that. :P
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 22, 2010, 06:59:39 AM
I bet an electrician would know that. :P
i know it and i'm not an electrician by any means.
FYI many places will NOT issue a certificate of inspection if you don't use a licensed electrician.
I rewired an apartment I bought in NYC and then found that out after the fact. I was pissed. Everything was done to code. I paid an electrician to sign off after he spent 2 hours looking at it, cost me dearly. Assholes.
You know what I make the beast with two backsing hate? How much the local Duc shop charges for a service. I can adjust the chain, change the oil, check things over (given the proper shop manual) and save a shit ton of money. I don't think shop time should be in the 80 dollar an hour range. So I did. And it worked great. Many others on the board are told every day that this can be done, that it should be done. That anyone can do it!
TA hates how much he was quoted for electrical work. He can set up a line to his house on his own and save a bunch of money. He doesn't think the job is worth 400 dollars an hour. So he's talking about doing it himself. Only roadblock is getting the inspector to OK it.
Why is it that when we are talking about moto work its ok the get mad at the cost of having a trained professional do it, but when he talks about electricity, this huge union mindset comes out and berates him. make the beast with two backs that.
Quote from: Punx Clever on February 22, 2010, 11:09:13 AM
You know what I make the beast with two backsing hate? How much the local Duc shop charges for a service. I can adjust the chain, change the oil, check things over (given the proper shop manual) and save a shit ton of money. I don't think shop time should be in the 80 dollar an hour range. So I did. And it worked great. Many others on the board are told every day that this can be done, that it should be done. That anyone can do it!
TA hates how much he was quoted for electrical work. He can set up a line to his house on his own and save a bunch of money. He doesn't think the job is worth 400 dollars an hour. So he's talking about doing it himself. Only roadblock is getting the inspector to OK it.
Why is it that when we are talking about moto work its ok the get mad at the cost of having a trained professional do it, but when he talks about electricity, this huge union mindset comes out and berates him. make the beast with two backs that.
I don't think anyone was berating anyone...except for the OP calling a couple of tradesmen monkeys.
Read the posts. [thumbsup]
Did read the posts. Hell, I wen't back and reread his posts to make sure I didn't miss some stupid remark he made. He said that pulling wire and attaching said wire to terminals could be done by a monkey. He's right, personal experience says an 8 year old can do that. He never called any electrician "a monkey". Sure, he pregnant doged about the high costs, and I'd say he had a reason. One contractor telling him it was essentially $400 in labor to hook a meter box to a shutoff? He called BS, and I would too.
A monkey might be able to do brain surgery too, but I'd never trust that he doesn't plan on killing me and run off with my wife and the life insurance money. Crafty bastards and hella good electricians those monkeys. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Punx Clever on February 22, 2010, 02:44:42 PM
Did read the posts. Hell, I wen't back and reread his posts to make sure I didn't miss some stupid remark he made. He said that pulling wire and attaching said wire to terminals could be done by a monkey. He's right, personal experience says an 8 year old can do that. He never called any electrician "a monkey". Sure, he pregnant doged about the high costs, and I'd say he had a reason. One contractor telling him it was essentially $400 in labor to hook a meter box to a shutoff? He called BS, and I would too.
Meh-it's all perspective.
One can oversimplify anything.
He's an air traffic controller. How hard could that be? Just make sure planes, which don't want to fly into each other to begin with, don't fly into each other. A chimp could do it. Just put the new planes in places old planes aren't.
Duh.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 22, 2010, 03:26:16 PM
Meh-it's all perspective.
One can oversimplify anything.
He's an air traffic controller. How hard could that be? Just make sure planes, which don't want to fly into each other to begin with, don't fly into each other. A chimp could do it. Just put the new planes in places old planes aren't. Duh.
Says a guy who just throws big tubes up in the air with a little fire. Put it in orbit with just rubber bands and then I'll be impressed.
Quote from: Punx Clever on February 22, 2010, 02:44:42 PM
Did read the posts. Hell, I wen't back and reread his posts to make sure I didn't miss some stupid remark he made. He said that pulling wire and attaching said wire to terminals could be done by a monkey. He's right, personal experience says an 8 year old can do that. He never called any electrician "a monkey". Sure, he pregnant doged about the high costs, and I'd say he had a reason. One contractor telling him it was essentially $400 in labor to hook a meter box to a shutoff? He called BS, and I would too.
Punx gets me :)
And you are right Mr I, I play do not connect the dots, and 2 simple rules. 5 miles/1000 feet. [laugh]
Anything is easy if you know how.
Not too long ago I paid an electrician about 2-3K to come put in a new box in my garage (now I can run a compressor!), and get all the wiring/separate meter straightened out, and get the whole permitting thing done.
Too much? Maybe-but given that I'd either electrocute myself, burn the place down, or both, totally worth it to me.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 22, 2010, 04:43:31 PM
Anything is easy if you know how.
Not too long ago I paid an electrician about 2-3K to come put in a new box in my garage (now I can run a compressor!), and get all the wiring/separate meter straightened out, and get the whole permitting thing done.
Too much? Maybe-but given that I'd either electrocute myself, burn the place down, or both, totally worth it to me.
Sounds like your guy did more work.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 22, 2010, 04:43:31 PM
Anything is easy if you know how.
Not too long ago I paid an electrician about 2-3K to come put in a new box in my garage (now I can run a compressor!), and get all the wiring/separate meter straightened out, and get the whole permitting thing done.
Too much? Maybe-but given that I'd either electrocute myself, burn the place down, or both, totally worth it to me.
I can't help buy think what would I spend the 2-3K on, instead of an electrician :D. Of course, if your pockets are overflowing with cash, then who cares! Sad;y, mine arnt.
I picked up my meter base today from the poco. My "helper" won't be around till beginning of next week, so I wait. In the meantime, I actually got a HVAC dude to come by and give me a quote for installing ducting, the returns, plenum, all that junk. Lots of manual labor, and he is reasonable, so he got the job [thumbsup]
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 23, 2010, 07:45:23 AM
I can't help buy think what would I spend the 2-3K on, instead of an electrician :D. Of course, if your pockets are overflowing with cash, then who cares! Sad;y, mine arnt.
I picked up my meter base today from the poco. My "helper" won't be around till beginning of next week, so I wait. In the meantime, I actually got a HVAC dude to come by and give me a quote for installing ducting, the returns, plenum, all that junk. Lots of manual labor, and he is reasonable, so he got the job [thumbsup]
Bet he won't bring you moonshine or offer you free range time.......
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 23, 2010, 07:45:23 AM
I can't help buy think what would I spend the 2-3K on, instead of an electrician :D. Of course, if your pockets are overflowing with cash, then who cares! Sad;y, mine arnt.
You should see what I charge for a satellite :P
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 23, 2010, 07:53:53 AM
You should see what I charge for a satellite :P
How much would it cost to send a satellite into space and put it into orbit directly next to directTV's and denote onboard explosives?
Discount Space Ship store prices:
Satellite: $1000
Rocket fuel: $2000
Explosives: $500
Thats only $3500 in parts and a monkey could push a button to space....WITHOUT training. So how much?
Quote from: He Man on February 23, 2010, 08:55:32 AM
How much would it cost to send a satellite into space and put it into orbit directly next to directTV's and denote onboard explosives?
Discount Space Ship store prices:
Satellite: $1000
Rocket fuel: $2000
Explosives: $500
Thats only $3500 in parts and a monkey could push a button to space....WITHOUT training. So how much?
$300,000,000.00 And two years :D
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 23, 2010, 11:08:16 AM
$300,000,000.00 And two years :D
[evil]Insert joke about Unions driving up costs here[evil]
Quote from: SA_S2R on February 24, 2010, 06:41:14 AM
[evil]Insert joke about Unions driving up costs here[evil]
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [clap]
In Australia, electricians are a regulated trade, in other words you can't do the work (legally and have it certified) unless you have done a 4 year apprenticeship and sat a licencing exam. You also have to sit more tests if you want to contract your skills to the public.
It is a highly skilled occupation that covers all electrical work, not just pulling wires through houses.
When I do my work, yeah, maybe it looks easy, but you don't know what skill and years of experience I am using while doing up that screw to look for potential problems. It will be done properly and safely the first time and if not the weight of the regulating authority comes down on you hard.
My wife gets this kind of thing all the time too, as a podiatrist she's had 4 years of university training plus untold hours of clinical work. She is qualified to diagnose and treat surgically or otherwise any lower limb problems that are encountered.
" what! $65 to cut my toenails! " but she is looking and testing for potential future health problems while doing this work.
I guess the analogies could go on and on, be it your doctor, lawyer or Duc mechanic, sure DIY but what are the risks.
I did want to mention the trades that overquote on a job if it's a job they don't really wanna do, maybe they're too busy or it's a PITA job. If the customer accepts the quote then it's a bit of cream for the tradie.
I dont condone this practice, if I don't want to do a job I just say so, simple as that, but it does go on out there.
It's the same here in the us as far as apprentice-journeyman-master/license, years of training and on the job experience before you get a license.
After you land the wires, you might want to go back later and retorque the lugs. Its a monkey thing (j/k). Stranded wire tends to settle, especially in the larger sizes. Good luck on your project. [thumbsup]
Passing a written exam doesn't make you a good electrician. With some guys, years of experience doesn't help either. I have to agree with the original post, wiring a house shouldn't cost what it does. The skill level required isn't that great. And NEVER let a buddy that works for the local electrical utility co. do any wiring for you.
Any body can stick a thermometer in your rectum and tell you you've got a fever too, but I'd rather pay a professional than have my neighbour do it for a case of beer. (but then again....she is pretty hot...)
Quote from: brimo on March 01, 2010, 12:46:14 PM
Any body can stick a thermometer in your rectum and tell you you've got a fever too, but I'd rather pay a professional than have my neighbour do it for a case of beer. (but then again....she is pretty hot...)
See?
My hot neighbor(s) can anal probe me anytime. For free.
If there's beer involved, all the better.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 01, 2010, 02:42:58 PM
See?
My hot neighbor(s) can anal probe me anytime. For free.
If there's beer involved, all the better.
I found a picture of your neighbor. Yep hot. Hot and sweaty.
(http://notmetal.net/wp-content/images/fat-bearded-guy.jpg)
Quote from: Speedbag on March 01, 2010, 02:42:58 PM
neighbor(s)
(http://www.amgroundsystems.com/wtbc9.jpg)
I paid an electrician $600 to put a 50 amp service next to my in garage fuse panel, for a welder. mill and lathe. About 6 hours of work, and my garage didn't burn down. Plus he installed a rotary phase converter. I thought it was reasonable.
Painters take a lot of years to get cancer and die. I work in a welding/machine shop, and will probably die from some sort of inhaled or coolant induced cancer. An electrician can get all crispy in just a few seconds. Like a good roofer, a good electrician is good to know. Same with a tow truck driver.
I had a plumber quote me $1500 (SF prices) to replace a drain and a leaky pipe.
I solved the problem myself for $150 in parts and 5 hours of labor.
Admittedly, 5 hours to get rid of the plumber's body was a bit excessive, but $150 for a shovel and a gun was a really good deal [evil]
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on March 01, 2010, 07:20:37 PM
I had a plumber quote me $1500 (SF prices) to replace a drain and a leaky pipe.
I solved the problem myself for $150 in parts and 5 hours of labor.
Admittedly, 5 hours to get rid of the plumber's body was a bit excessive, but $150 for a shovel and a gun was a really good deal [evil]
It is always important to remember the three S's of problem solving - shoot, shovel, shut-up. You got two out of three on this quiz.......
yeah, electricians are expensive, but I'll pay it.
there are two things I won't screw with, Natural gas and AC.
seen the result of a house that had a tiny gas leak that eventually built up under a floor till it reached the pilot on the in ground heater.. Kapoof. the floor was raised 5 feet and the roof dropped 2.
I just don't have a clear understanding of AC voltage, only enough to be dangerous.
I have a very clear understanding of DC voltage and how it works.
I'll install a ceiling fan, or replace a bad thermocouple but I won't go f'n around in the power box or screwing with the plumbing up to the heater.
Quote from: acalles on March 02, 2010, 10:49:08 AM
yeah, electricians are expensive, but I'll pay it.
there are two things I won't screw with, Natural gas and AC.
i plumbed the gas lines in my old apartment. even did a leak down test, the plumber i paid to inspect the work said it was the best job he'd ever seen (i just blushed..) of course, it was to be for my HOME so i wanted it perfect.. never had a problem.. air pressurize the line with a gauge on it, come back in 2 days. if the number is the same, you are golden.
two days? must have been perfect. Inspectors test here is 20psig for 10 minutes for low pressure and 50psig for 30 minutes for high pressure.
Quote from: 1KDS on March 02, 2010, 05:20:13 PM
two days? must have been perfect. Inspectors test here is 20psig for 10 minutes for low pressure and 50psig for 30 minutes for high pressure.
it wasn't intentional. it was friday and the weather was perfect for riding, so i pumped it up and left.. came back sunday morning and it was still reading where i marked the gage. low pressure gas, but i think i pumped it up to about 50 psi.. oops... but it was all 1/2" black pipe, and only 4 or 5 joints..