Anyone ever done this successfully? I need a motor for my SBK frame'd project and this kinda thing pops into my head.
First thought was using a 999 motor
Second a 916 type
Thirdly, forgetting the entire idea and putting a high-comp split FCR'd 900 motor in it an calling it a day. [thumbsup]
If you have some time, call Stuart Rust and chat with him for a minute. He's here in DFW, and has worked on Ducs for a LOOOOOONG time. I'd say, bring him a few oil cans of Fosters to get him going, but he's working on a project that's quite similar. Only, its the head from an R bike, not sure which one (but the other side, I'm going to guess, blew during an AMA or WSBK race)
- http://rustrestoreonline.com/ (http://rustrestoreonline.com/)
pick up a complete 4v motor. put it down, remove a head, cylinder and piston. pick it up again and see how much difference you notice. then go pick up a yzf450 or the like motor.
i don't get it, other than a specific racing class special. if you want a slow bike get a 600m and lighten it.
some guy on the ducati.net list was talking about a guy with a 1/2 999r that had 61hp. 61 make the beast with two backsing hp. about what a 620 has in a heavy as 999 chassis. woo hoo. what a steaming turd.
unless of course you spend thousands on light stuff. then you'd have a bike 10kg at most lighter than the 999r would have been with the same light stuff and less than half the power.
but then i do some wacky shit at times. ever built a full exhaust system? once was enough.
Quote from: brad black on February 25, 2010, 12:55:44 AM
pick up a complete 4v motor. put it down, remove a head, cylinder and piston. pick it up again and see how much difference you notice. then go pick up a yzf450 or the like motor.
i don't get it, other than a specific racing class special. if you want a slow bike get a 600m and lighten it.
some guy on the ducati.net list was talking about a guy with a 1/2 999r that had 61hp. 61 make the beast with two backsing hp. about what a 620 has in a heavy as 999 chassis. woo hoo. what a steaming turd.
unless of course you spend thousands on light stuff. then you'd have a bike 10kg at most lighter than the 999r would have been with the same light stuff and less than half the power.
but then i do some wacky shit at times. ever built a full exhaust system? once was enough.
Well shit, I suppose you are right. Would just be for the "oh cool" factory. "oh well" :D
Nothing like a bit of blunt aussie honesty ay? ;)
Thats why we are the USA, we do shit cause we can. Not necessarily because it makes sense :P
But really, I agree, if you want a single, find a good thumper motor. The honda 600/650 is effing bulletproof and air-cooled. Then, put it in a light weight frame.
For a twin to single conversion... remember that you will have to balance the engine to be a single... among other things.
You want to turn a twin to a single... how about using the second cylinder as a reciprocating force induction system?
Quote from: Punx Clever on February 25, 2010, 11:20:48 AM
Thats why we are the USA, we do shit cause we can. Not necessarily because it makes sense :P
But really, I agree, if you want a single, find a good thumper motor. The honda 600/650 is effing bulletproof and air-cooled. Then, put it in a light weight frame.
For a twin to single conversion... remember that you will have to balance the engine to be a single... among other things.
You want to turn a twin to a single... how about using the second cylinder as a reciprocating force induction system?
Aww shit, now you are getting all crazy.
Did someone say plant a KTM single in a ducati frame? j/k, although it would be "different" for sure.
Right now, I've got this to work with
999 tank/seat/tail
999 frame and mono subframe
1098 forks
a broken monster SSSA, but all the parts for it. It's not worth fixing, but if I can find a bare one for cheap...?
no motor/wiring
no clipons
no throttle
no wheels
I'll start a new thread in the mods section.....maybe I can get some input from DMF to build me somethign neat. I LOVE The radical built bikes, but don't really want to copy them either.
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 25, 2010, 11:37:05 AM
no motor/wiring
<snip>
I'll start a new thread in the mods section.....maybe I can get some input from DMF to build me somethign neat. I LOVE The radical built bikes, but don't really want to copy them either.
(http://agnimotors.com/images/motor.jpg) (http://www.agnimotors.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5&Itemid=60)
Three of the R models will give you ~90kW or 120hp peak (for 5 secs) and ~64hp continuous. That's S4R peak power and M750 continuous power.
Get about 60 of these (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9176) (wired in 15 parallel sets of 4 to get 90V @ 75Ahr) and you'd get ~1.5 - 2 hrs of typical 3-4kW average (4-5hp) commuting runtime (which as a really rough approximation is about what 45mpg works out to), so maybe 100 miles range or so in commuting type riding. Your runtime drops significantly as you use more power - the motors running at their continuous peak power would run the batteries flat in ~ 25mins but with ~64hp, the same as my M750, you'd be doing ~120mph. Flat out, the 120hp 5 sec peak power would see you accelerating as hard as an S4R - an that 5 secs will get you from a standing start most of the way to 100mph before you need to back off to stop cooking the motors.
Maybe not the "radical" you're thinking of... But _I_ reckon it'd be a fine project :-)
big
^Now that would be radical^
If you're going to be paying sbk insurance prices you might as well get a 4V for it so you have sbk power. If it is just a fun/track/whatever bike then go nuts, I've always thought a bigger air cooled motor would be cool in a sbk frame...naked of course and without all that extra plumbing
like this one, 07 S2R 1000 motor $900
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/07-Ducati-S2R-1000-Monster-Complete-Engine-Motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a71b138fQQitemZ230436836239QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/07-Ducati-S2R-1000-Monster-Complete-Engine-Motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a71b138fQQitemZ230436836239QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
if you want to do something wacky then you need to think wacky. everything else mentioned has been done. but if you have the time, and you have the skills, why not. just don't be expecting too much in terms of performance was my point. and it's a waste of time [laugh]
drop the horizontal, keep the vertical and make it a hyper style chassis - new scrambler. something like that. front carb and great big air inlet for it. move the engine forward and put a way long swingarm in it. you could always pull the horizontal head and rings, cap the cylinder and drill big holes in the piston so there's no pumping going on and weight the pin for the balance issue. still shorter than having a head out front too.
Quote from: brad black on February 26, 2010, 12:30:30 AM
if you want to do something wacky then you need to think wacky. everything else mentioned has been done. but if you have the time, and you have the skills, why not. just don't be expecting too much in terms of performance was my point. and it's a waste of time [laugh]
drop the horizontal, keep the vertical and make it a hyper style chassis - new scrambler. something like that. front carb and great big air inlet for it. move the engine forward and put a way long swingarm in it. you could always pull the horizontal head and rings, cap the cylinder and drill big holes in the piston so there's no pumping going on and weight the pin for the balance issue. still shorter than having a head out front too.
that'd be pretty neat - you could make a hill climber
Quote from: brad black on February 26, 2010, 12:30:30 AM
if you want to do something wacky then you need to think wacky. everything else mentioned has been done. but if you have the time, and you have the skills, why not. just don't be expecting too much in terms of performance was my point. and it's a waste of time [laugh]
Drop the vertical-keep the horizontal. Weld a four bar linkage to the rear wheel some the cam pulleys. Get rid of the chain. Voila! Locomotive style Ducati!
Install an air horn where the vert was.
My dealer ( Biggelaar) in the Netherlands made al least 7
mono's
For race and road use , with two valve heads and 4 valve heads
An other shop , Startwins made one with the vertical cilinder
i like the drop horizontal, keep vertical using an upgraded size but use the front one for a funky piston driven supercharger. you wouldn't even need to use the same piston size, just make the weight the same so it stays balanced.
lots of caveats on that of course.
to get 7 pound boost (1/2 atmosphere) you'd need 50% more capacity on the other cylinder. which means about 22.5% bigger bore. not sure how you'd get that in. and that assumes 100% vol efficiency.
or am i missing something.
Quote from: brad black on February 26, 2010, 01:21:56 PM
to get 7 pound boost (1/2 atmosphere) you'd need 50% more capacity on the other cylinder. which means about 22.5% bigger bore. not sure how you'd get that in. and that assumes 100% vol efficiency.
or am i missing something.
You get two strokes of your supercharging cylinder for each intake stroke of your power cylinder.
MrI gave me an idea... maybee you'd like to see a four-bar rear suspension.
If you did mono engine -- you only need one FCR then!
As for moving the engine forward? New frame required. It would allow a longer swingarm and one could still shorten the wheelbase quite a bit. I looked at using one of the http://www.biggelaar-performance.com/ (http://www.biggelaar-performance.com/) kits at the time with special crankshaft (in a 998 engine) for a special project I wanted to build -- but used a different engine eventually due to time constraints.
Quote from: Speeddog on February 27, 2010, 07:23:27 AM
You get two strokes of your supercharging cylinder for each intake stroke of your power cylinder.
yes, well, i'll just go sit at the back. knew i was missing something.
Quote from: brad black on February 27, 2010, 11:17:15 AM
yes, well, i'll just go sit at the back. knew i was missing something.
No worries, I fell in the same trap the first time I was thinking about it. :P
Wouldn't the timing of the strokes be a problem or would the intake manifold have to be unidirectional. Seems something has to hold at least one stroke of intake air in place until the hot cylinder needs it
Quote from: ducatiz on February 28, 2010, 03:37:57 AM
Wouldn't the timing of the strokes be a problem or would the intake manifold have to be unidirectional. Seems something has to hold at least one stroke of intake air in place until the hot cylinder needs it
wouldn't the intake valve on the working cylinder do that?
The supercharging cylinder is just a compressor, and as such would have check valves instead of cam-operated valves.
Definitely works better with a plenum.
More details on one here:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/01/12/ducati-v-one-twin-to-supercharged-single-conversion/ (http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/01/12/ducati-v-one-twin-to-supercharged-single-conversion/)
Quote from: Speeddog on February 28, 2010, 09:17:33 AM
The supercharging cylinder is just a compressor, and as such would have check valves instead of cam-operated valves.
Definitely works better with a plenum.
More details on one here:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/01/12/ducati-v-one-twin-to-supercharged-single-conversion/ (http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/01/12/ducati-v-one-twin-to-supercharged-single-conversion/)
QuoteThe 498cc single has 15 HP more than the original twin putting out 102 HP at the rear wheel, torque is increased and it runs fine to 10,000 rpm, 2500 rpm over stock. It's about 30 HP more than the well known Ducati Supermono. The Ducati V-One, as he calls it, is for racetrack use only and when things get sorted out he plans to build 40 of them for customers.
Which I guess is why he is photographed running on a highway on it..!
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/ducativone.jpg)
I got to hand it to this guy for dreaming it up and building it. [beer]
And I'd have to think about it for awhile before I could accept that it makes 15 more HP than the stock twin. Unless he's burning nitro-methane in it. Or maybe I'm missing something.
Quote from: Langanobob on February 28, 2010, 03:57:46 PM
I got to hand it to this guy for dreaming it up and building it. [beer]
And I'd have to think about it for awhile before I could accept that it makes 15 more HP than the stock twin. Unless he's burning nitro-methane in it. Or maybe I'm missing something.
no, just gas. forced induction is awesome.
Are there any dyno printouts anywhere? I would sure like to see one. It's going to take a LOT of hp just to crank the compressor cylinder at 10,000 RPM.