Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Speeddog on February 27, 2010, 11:41:13 AM

Title: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Speeddog on February 27, 2010, 11:41:13 AM
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/4392472215_2e758d5b9f_o.jpg)

Lower Left: OK, what you see there disappears with a little scotchbrite.

Lower Right: Looking borderline, visible 'depth' of wear at top and bottom of the contact patch.

Upper Left: Chrome completely gone in 2/3 of the contact patch.

Upper Right: Chrome completely gone from the entire contact patch.


Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 11:44:24 AM
So...

it needs 3.

Those are pretty old I think.

The earlier bad ones had that bronze color.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Speeddog on February 27, 2010, 11:55:26 AM
AFAIK, they're the originals on an '02 S4.

But the bike is on owner #3, so not a 'for sure'.

All from the horizontal, verticals were fine.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 11:56:57 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on February 27, 2010, 11:55:26 AM
AFAIK, they're the originals on an '02 S4.

But the bike is on owner #3, so not a 'for sure'.

All from the horizontal, verticals were fine.
Are yours the same color?
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: gage on February 27, 2010, 06:45:14 PM
has anyone used the DLC coated replacement rockers for few thousand miles yet...
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 06:46:22 PM
not me.

I would though.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: uclabiker06 on February 27, 2010, 07:59:50 PM
Wow thats harsh.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Langanobob on February 27, 2010, 10:42:52 PM
Any way to replate them, or are new ones the only option?  As I recall, that kind of hard chrome is not the same process as say '57 Chevy bumpers, but I don't know what the difference is. 
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Howie on February 28, 2010, 12:39:46 AM
A company called Megacycle (you may know them since they do a lot of old British stuff) used to re manufacture Ducati rockers, they may still do this, but Ducati rockers are no longer in the catalog.  If I remember correctly, they used to nitride them instead of chroming.  Megacycle does re chrome other brand rockers.  They grind them down, weld on new material , machine to specs, then chrome.  Allegedly the problem with Ducati rockers was a defect in manufacturing , hydrogen embrittlement.  Improper cooling of the rocker would make the chrome brittle, causing the flaking problem.

http://www.megacyclecams.com/ (http://www.megacyclecams.com/)
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: jerryz on February 28, 2010, 03:13:32 AM
NICHOLS IN SF have megacycle rockers
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: ducpainter on February 28, 2010, 03:31:31 AM
Quote from: howie on February 28, 2010, 12:39:46 AM
A company called Megacycle (you may know them since they do a lot of old British stuff) used to re manufacture Ducati rockers, they may still do this, but Ducati rockers are no longer in the catalog.  If I remember correctly, they used to nitride them instead of chroming.  Megacycle does re chrome other brand rockers.  They grind them down, weld on new material , machine to specs, then chrome.  Allegedly the problem with Ducati rockers was a defect in manufacturing , hydrogen embrittlement.  Improper cooling of the rocker would make the chrome brittle, causing the flaking problem.

http://www.megacyclecams.com/ (http://www.megacyclecams.com/)
The 4V rockers are in there you just need to dig.

The price in the 08 catalog is $89. They do not re-chrome the rockers. They grind and hard face the valve end.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Speeddog on February 28, 2010, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 11:56:57 AM
Are yours the same color?

Not sure, as I don't have 'em out right now, but I think so.

I've had rockers re-done by Megacycle; it's a grind chrome off, hard weld, and regrind process.

New OEM ones are supposed to be better.

I've not heard much about the DLC coated rockers.
Hopefully it's a little bit cheaper than the fork leg DLC coating I checked on a while back.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: ducpainter on February 28, 2010, 11:00:11 AM
Bruce had some done and Eric has installed some of them.

The cost was somewhat reasonable, but depended on the number being done...more #s lower per piece cost.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Desmo Demon on February 28, 2010, 11:06:21 AM
I replaced four rockers in my 748 in 2006 with OEM rockers (when they were $45 each) with only 5600 miles on the bike. At 12k, they were still all fine. At 18k, some more were bad, including one of the 2006 replacement rockers, and I replaced all the openers with Megacycled rockers that I got through Nichol's. 1300 miles later, I wrecked the bike and am still in the process of repairing it (I have to get some more use out of those rockers, right?  ;) )

For color contrast of OEM rockers, here is a picture I took back in 2006 showing a 1998, 2002, and 2006 OEM rockers...

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d32/Kramer_Krazy/rockers_1.jpg)

(The 1998 rockers is actually a light gold color)
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: gage on March 05, 2010, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 28, 2010, 11:00:11 AM
Bruce had some done and Eric has installed some of them.

The cost was somewhat reasonable, but depended on the number being done...more #s lower per piece cost.

The DLC ones are definately cool looking - I'd try them just because of that but thankfully I haven't had a need
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: MongoReturns on March 09, 2010, 11:11:08 AM
Hi all,

I've wondered about flaking rockers for many years, though don't think it affects my machines.  What's the problem with just letting them flake?  I can see having to use new shims eventually, but wouldn't the oil filter catch the flakes?
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: yotogi on March 09, 2010, 11:23:54 AM
As I understand it the flakes are the harder material that is plated to the rocker. Once that wears away, your cams would start to tear thought the softer rocker material. That would be very bad and could lead to all kinds of nasty stuff like your closers not working and all that leads to.

People Who Know Much More About Ducati's Than Me(tm), is that incorrect?


EDIT: See below. I learn-ed somephin!
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: ducpainter on March 09, 2010, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: MongoReturns on March 09, 2010, 11:11:08 AM
Hi all,

I've wondered about flaking rockers for many years, though don't think it affects my machines.  What's the problem with just letting them flake?  I can see having to use new shims eventually, but wouldn't the oil filter catch the flakes?
Problem is when the plating wears off the rockers, the rockers wear out the cams.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: MongoReturns on March 09, 2010, 07:22:55 PM
Ah.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: jerryz on March 10, 2010, 05:15:24 AM
In 2007 i fitted 8 Nichol Megacycled openers to my S4 ,5 of the OEM ones were rubbish...flaked to death after only 5000 miles , all the closers were perfect .
Now 12,000 miles later they are all still fine . checking my valves this week at 18,000 miles .
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Desmo Demon on March 10, 2010, 08:10:40 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 09, 2010, 05:09:32 PM
Problem is when the plating wears off the rockers, the rockers wear out the cams.
And like a bike the local dealer had on the table......

The chrome flakes got to a cam bearing, the bearing seized, a belt broke, the piston smacked the two intake valves, the valves bent, the two valve guides cracked, and the piston got a couple of dings knocked into it.

Not too sure if it is true or not, but I have heard of the piston making contact with the valves just right to bend a connecting rod and damage crank bearings.
Title: Re: Flaking Rockers, the 4 stages of grief
Post by: Speeddog on March 10, 2010, 08:23:19 AM
For the want of a nail, a kingdom was lost....