thanks in advance folks!
so, here is the scoop. my 99 Power stroke had the glow plugs and controller (or are they injectors???) replaced in 2004. at 138,000 miles. truck was very hard to start, to the point of killing batteries. 5 of 8 glow plugs were found to be dead, along with the controller.
fast forward to today. the ford dealer tells me that i need to replace them AND the controller, at 218,000 miles. the service guy says it is perfectly normal to have to replace them after 6 years (80k.) the reason that this was looked at was that i have been having occasional issues starting up in the morning. not every time, and overnight temps don't seem to be a factor (although i keep it plugged in at night from october to april.)
2 questions... is there any kind of NORMAL for them to wear out? and why did the first set last almost twice as long as the replacements?
i am leaning towards BS, especially since they are already getting me for 2k worth of new brakes....but,... if anyone knows more about this, i would appreciate input.
and on a tangent (sort of.) if the plugs are not supposed to last that long WTF did ford design the engine so that you have to remove the top end to get at them???
Quote from: herm (not herb) on March 10, 2010, 01:55:38 PM
thanks in advance folks!
so, here is the scoop. my 99 Power stroke had the glow plugs and controller (or are they injectors???) replaced in 2004. at 138,000 miles. truck was very hard to start, to the point of killing batteries. 5 of 8 glow plugs were found to be dead, along with the controller.
fast forward to today. the ford dealer tells me that i need to replace them AND the controller, at 218,000 miles. the service guy says it is perfectly normal to have to replace them after 6 years (80k.) the reason that this was looked at was that i have been having occasional issues starting up in the morning. not every time, and overnight temps don't seem to be a factor (although i keep it plugged in at night from october to april.)
2 questions... is there any kind of NORMAL for them to wear out? and why did the first set last almost twice as long as the replacements?
i am leaning towards BS, especially since they are already getting me for 2k worth of new brakes....but,... if anyone knows more about this, i would appreciate input.
and on a tangent (sort of.) if the plugs are not supposed to last that long WTF did ford design the engine so that you have to remove the top end to get at them???
First of all the Powerstroke is an International design.
From the very first 6.9L models the glow plugs and controllers have been junk...FHE form working at a Ford dealer.
So the originals lasted from 99-04, or 5 years.
And the replacements lasted from 04-10, or six years.
Would you say that you're driving less often? Or maybe fewer miles per average trip?
Either way, 6 years is A LOT of starts.
the way i am looking at it is the first set were good for 138 thousand miles. the set i put in in 2004 only lasted 80 thousand miles. almost 1/2 as long...
i gotta say though, for all my pregnant dogin about this, my cost of ownership (repair wise) has been pretty damn good with this truck...
Quote from: herm (not herb) on March 10, 2010, 04:00:18 PM
yup..
So why you blaming Ford for the accessibility issues? ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on March 10, 2010, 04:01:13 PM
So why you blaming Ford for the accessibility issues? ;D
'cause they put it in the dang truck :P
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 10, 2010, 04:05:17 PM
'cause they put it in the dang truck :P
freakin' school bus engine.... [roll]
Off hand, it seems your glow plugs are lasting a pretty long time. It wouldn't be such a big deal if the labor involved wasn't so bad. I don't know when the change was, but at some point Ford re designed the glow plugs and controller. The second generation can be fitted in the older trucks, this requires a new harness also. From the lifespan you are getting you probably already have the later generation, check with your dealer.
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 10, 2010, 04:05:17 PM
'cause they put it in the dang truck :P
thank you.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 10, 2010, 04:06:12 PM
freakin' school bus fire struck engine.... [roll]
had the same engine in one of my heavy fire engines (an international..) but maintenance on that was on your (all y'alls) tab, not mine.
Quote from: howie on March 10, 2010, 06:03:36 PM
Off hand, it seems your glow plugs are lasting a pretty long time. It wouldn't be such a big deal if the labor involved wasn't so bad. I don't know when the change was, but at some point Ford re designed the glow plugs and controller. The second generation can be fitted in the older trucks, this requires a new harness also. From the lifespan you are getting you probably already have the later generation, check with your dealer.
the labor is EXACTLY the problem.. the frickin heat sticks only cost 20.00 each. its the whole day to pull the top off the engine and replace them that adds 500.00 to the tab.
so,.......am to understand that opinion is that my glow plugs have had a long and fruitful life, but that they are legitimately used up? i know i asked....but i dont like that very much.
the real killer is that i was planning on getting the suspension done on my bike this spring. thats not going to happen now..
Be glad you got the life out of them that you did. Neighbor had to replace theirs at 3800 (Yes, hundred) miles after buying their new powersmoke in '07. Had to replace them again this year at 67xxx miles.
I haven't had any problems with glowplugs in my '97 Dodge Cummins at all.
'cause it ain't got none!
2k for brakes :o
Quote from: Bun-bun on March 10, 2010, 06:37:23 PM
Be glad you got the life out of them that you did. Neighbor had to replace theirs at 3800 (Yes, hundred) miles after buying their new powersmoke in '07. Had to replace them again this year at 67xxx miles.
I haven't had any problems with glowplugs in my '97 Dodge Cummins at all.
That was one of the 6.0L International engines, they put em in from 03' to 07'. Complete piece of junk. Things are constantly blowing up, esp the fuel injectors.
ne
Quote from: Bun-bun on March 10, 2010, 06:37:23 PM
I haven't had any problems with glowplugs in my '97 Dodge Cummins at all.
'cause it ain't got none!
is that because you dont have a diesel? or because it uses direct rail injection? my truck does not actually have glow plugs either....uses some kind of injectors....but its hard to refer to them as anything but glow plugs.
Quote from: ZLTFUL on March 03, 2010, 06:35:08 AM
I got that covered...
I'm a certified Diesel mecanic,<snip>
PM maybe?
Quote from: herm (not herb) on March 11, 2010, 02:39:39 AM
ne
is that because you dont have a diesel? or because it uses direct rail injection? my truck does not actually have glow plugs either....uses some kind of injectors....but its hard to refer to them as anything but glow plugs.
No, it's a diesel. It uses a heated wire grid in the intake plenum instead of glowplugs.
I think you're confusing glowplugs and injectors.
Glowplugs preheat the incoming fuel charge when the engine is cold, assisting in the combustion process. Think of them as sparkplugs.
Injectors spray the fuel into the cylinders under pressure.
Quote from: Bun-bun on March 11, 2010, 04:27:31 AM
No, it's a diesel. It uses a heated wire grid in the intake plenum instead of glowplugs.
<snip>
My 50 year old tractor has a small element in the intake that fuel drips onto and theoretically vaporizes making start up easier much like your wire grid.
I hope your system works better than that old Massey's. [laugh]
Quote from: Bun-bun on March 10, 2010, 06:37:23 PM
Be glad you got the life out of them that you did. Neighbor had to replace theirs at 3800 (Yes, hundred) miles after buying their new powersmoke in '07. Had to replace them again this year at 67xxx miles.
I haven't had any problems with glowplugs in my '97 Dodge Cummins at all.
'cause it ain't got none!
I concur with the 97 Dodge Cummins. Sell the Ford and get a Dodge. Plus there is way more room under the hood with the inline six design. The newer Dodges have twice as many valves and you can get a compression release with them. [thumbsup]
Quote from: D Paoli on March 11, 2010, 05:24:23 AM
I concur with the 97 Dodge Cummins. Sell the Ford and get a Dodge. Plus there is way more room under the hood with the inline six design. The newer Dodges have twice as many valves and you can get a compression release with them. [thumbsup]
well,....
IF i was going to sell my truck, probably would not buy another one so big, even if it meant getting rid of my trailer. so wouldnt need the diesel. but i will drive it into the ground, or the poor house, whichever comes first.
You do indeed have glow plugs.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 11, 2010, 04:36:28 AM
My 50 year old tractor has a small element in the intake that fuel drips onto and theoretically vaporizes making start up easier much like your wire grid.
I hope your system works better than that old Massey's. [laugh]
The Cummins uses battery voltage to heat the wires, just like a space heater, and heats the incoming charge of air. It works fine as long as you have adequate charge in your batteries.
That old Massey sounds like an explosion waiting to happen.
And I'm with Herm. I'll probably die before it does, but even so, when I die, bury me in my Dodge.
Quote from: Bun-bun on March 11, 2010, 06:52:38 PM
And I'm with Herm. I'll probably die before it does, but even so, when I die, bury me in my Dodge.
Sure-just give me the keys ;)
Quote from: Bun-bun on March 11, 2010, 06:52:38 PM
The Cummins uses battery voltage to heat the wires, just like a space heater, and heats the incoming charge of air. It works fine as long as you have adequate charge in your batteries.
That old Massey sounds like an explosion waiting to happen.
And I'm with Herm. I'll probably die before it does, but even so, when I die, bury me in my Dodge.
What could go wrong? ;D
Quick threadjack.
Duramax, Powerstroke or Cummins, which one and why?
Im looking at a 2500HD. Love the quiet powerplant as opposed to the charter boat-like Powerstrokes that I've been around....
thx for the jack!
Quote from: rgramjet on March 12, 2010, 06:23:27 PM
Quick threadjack.
Duramax, Powerstroke or Cummins, which one and why?
Im looking at a 2500HD. Love the quiet powerplant as opposed to the charter boat-like Powerstrokes that I've been around....
thx for the jack!
The Cummins...
in anything but a Dodge. ;)
Why...?
A diesel should be an inline engine.
I'd argue Cummins makes a better diesel, though I've never actually spec'ed anything out.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 12, 2010, 06:29:07 PM
The Cummins...
in anything but a Dodge. ;)
Why...?
A diesel should be an inline engine.
So not the wonderful GM ones made from the Olds 350s back in the early 80's? [laugh]
Why?
Quote from: rgramjet on March 12, 2010, 06:23:27 PM
Quick threadjack.
Duramax, Powerstroke or Cummins, which one and why?
Im looking at a 2500HD. Love the quiet powerplant as opposed to the charter boat-like Powerstrokes that I've been around....
thx for the jack!
the new generation of Power strokes have had issues. until ford (international) gets a handle on that, or ford goes with their own engine (supposedly code named "scorpion?") i would personally steer clear of the fords.
i have always liked how quiet the duramax engine is (i think its actually built by Isuzi.) but i dont have any other first hand experience.
cummins are supposed to be awsome engines, but they only come in dodge trucks (although you can get one stuffed in a ford if you have the time and $$$.)
all very subjective of course.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 12, 2010, 06:29:07 PM
The Cummins...
in anything but a Dodge. ;)
Why...?
A diesel should be an inline engine.
Dodge has a well deserved reputation for building crappy cars, but I've owned 4 Dodge trucks, and found the build quality to be much higher than their cars. I currently own a '97 2500 diesel, and a '00 1500 5.2. Both have well over 100k miles. Not only are the engines trouble free to this point, but the rest of both the vehicles has held up very well, and everything still works on both trucks.
I just got back from two weeks in Florida, and put 2800+ miles on the diesel without a hiccup.
An inline diesel is a simpler engine than a V design (Read, fewer parts to break).
Also, as mentioned above, the Cummins has no glowplugs to go bad. The benefit to the Cummins system are;
If the cold start system goes bad, there's only one component to replace, instead of eight,
The grid heater is a simple replacement that can be done in your driveway,
The glowplug equipped diesels seem to rely on the glowplugs even in warm weather, while the grid heater only runs when temps are below 55 degrees, so the system runs less often and hopefully lasts longer.
I too like the quiet of the GM diesel, but the noise from my Cummins becomes much less noticeable at cruise speeds.
What's the best source for good used complete Cummins engines and how much do they usually go for. I have a '77 Wagoneer that has been hanging out back in the corner of my garage forever that if I could ever find the time for (read as 100 years from now :P) that would probably be a great home for one.
I like the Dodge Mega Cab.....never driven one. Think Ill try one! What kind of mileage did you gef on the 2800 mile journey?
I averaged 17mpg at 69 mph
But
My truck is a 2500 longbed extra cab 4x4 with 4:10 gears and weighs in at 7200lbs empty.
That model truck also came with 3.55 gearing, which dropped the cruise rpms and raised the mpg to over 20.
It's also the 12v with mechanical fuel injection. The later models with EFI also get better mileage.
There's a lot of really good info on this site; www.turbodieselregister.com (//http://)
My experience with Dodge trucks comes from time spent in the auto body field.
Both cars and trucks have had the lowest quality body components and build quality of the big 3 IMO.
I don't do cars anymore. Maybe it's changed.
I've got limitied first hand experience with the dodge and the ford but of the units on our fleet
The Fords are in the shop all the time for injector, EGR, and turbo issues
The Dodge has been in the shop once for steering component issues and 3 times for exhaust issues
Quote from: lethe on March 13, 2010, 05:00:31 AM
What's the best source for good used complete Cummins engines and how much do they usually go for. I have a '77 Wagoneer that has been hanging out back in the corner of my garage forever that if I could ever find the time for (read as 100 years from now :P) that would probably be a great home for one.
for the mechanically inclined, i think this is a good place to shop for a diesel engine
http://www.dieselenginemotor.com/manufacturer/Cummins/100.html (http://www.dieselenginemotor.com/manufacturer/Cummins/100.html)
or for those with more money than sense, this option
http://fordcummins.com/index.html (http://fordcummins.com/index.html)
Quote from: Mother on March 13, 2010, 02:18:52 PM
I've got limitied first hand experience with the dodge and the ford but of the units on our fleet
The Fords are in the shop all the time for injector, EGR, and turbo issues
The Dodge has been in the shop once for steering component issues and 3 times for exhaust issues
Do you remember what kind of exhaust issues?
I had to replace my exhaust last year when it rusted out after 13 years. I upgraded to a turbo back 4" stainless version.
Quote from: Bun-bun on March 13, 2010, 05:37:06 PM
Do you remember what kind of exhaust issues?
I had to replace my exhaust last year when it rusted out after 13 years. I upgraded to a turbo back 4" stainless version.
just leaks
no big replacements
Quote from: ducpainter on March 13, 2010, 07:43:17 AM
My experience with Dodge trucks comes from time spent in the auto body field.
Both cars and trucks have had the lowest quality body components and build quality of the big 3 IMO.
I don't do cars anymore. Maybe it's changed.
It hasn't. ;D
was it stupid of me to assume that a dealer would be able to work on my vehicle (which they sell) without making it worse?
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Quote from: herm (not herb) on March 16, 2010, 10:45:44 AM
was it stupid of me to assume that a dealer would be able to work on my vehicle (which they sell) without making it worse?
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Yup!
Quote from: herm (not herb) on March 16, 2010, 10:45:44 AM
was it stupid of me to assume that a dealer would be able to work on my vehicle (which they sell) without making it worse?
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
I thought this thread was about diesel trucks not VW's ;)
Quote from: herm (not herb) on March 16, 2010, 10:45:44 AM
was it stupid of me to assume that a dealer would be able to work on my vehicle (which they sell) without making it worse?
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Where did you take it?
AutoFair?
What happened?
Quote from: howie on March 16, 2010, 06:10:51 PM
What happened?
i think its best if i keep my own council for a couple days...
i will explain once everything is sorted out.
tease