I'm at a crossroads. I want a hellaciously powerful road car. And I'm in need of valuable,non-biased opinions. So here I am.
Below is a picture of my '96 Mustang GT:
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2009_1127Image0007.jpg)
Said car has 47,000 miles, and belonged to my late father. As anyone familiar with late-model Mustangs (although "late-model" hardly applies to a 1996, I guess) knows, the '96-'98 cars were the pooches of the 4.6L era. It's a fun enough beer runner, but 215HP just ain't cutting it. It's got 3.73s in the axle, as well as a cold-air intake, bigger throttle body and elbow, and underdrive pulleys (OK, so it might be a hair stouter than 215HP).
Anyway, I've been toying with buying a '07-'08 GT500 to scratch the itch. But, getting one would require selling my '67 Cougar (which I've owned since 1986), as well as the GT. I hardly drive the Cougar anymore except on nice Sundays since I'm paranoid about some cell phone obsessed douche hitting it, and parts are unobtainium for them these days.
But, I've got an aluminum Cobra 4.6 block in the corner of the shop. The thought is maybe to build a 5.0L stroker and toss on aftermarket heads and induction, cam the bejeezus out of it, and slap it in the '96. Should be easy to crank out 450HP at the crank naturally aspirated from what I've seen. The older 'stangs are significantly lighter than a newbie also. Throw in some suspension goodies and better brakes and I'll bet a person could pull 1g in acceleration, braking, and handling.
On one hand, at the end of the day it would still just be a '96 Mustang GT (albeit a fun one), but I'd keep my Cougar. Going to a GT500 would clean out the garage and get down to one vehicle to insure and maintain, not to mention be a much better platform for other minor tweaks (but I wouldn't go too far in the event that they are collector's items like the old ones someday). The 500HP of the early late-model Shelbys is easily eclipsed with simple bolt-ons.
Decisions, decisions. Thoughts?
Personally I'd keep the Cougar and mod the hell out of this. Were it mine I'd have to paint it just about anything other than red though, maybe make it a dark.
Stealthy it is not.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 11, 2010, 02:54:49 PM
Stealthy it is not.
I'm just not a big fan of red. The two crappy Mustangs I had, one was black with black rims and the other was white with black rims.
I like red just fine, but it's not the best for something like this. Mr. Popo sees me coming a mile away.
I would keep the Cougar. Maybe add a supercharger to the Mustang or something, but keep the Cougar.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 11, 2010, 02:58:58 PM
I like red just fine, but it's not the best for something like this. Mr. Popo sees me coming a mile away.
White can be nearly invisible, except when you blow by at 130 but that's something only an idiot would do. :P
Quote from: lethe on March 11, 2010, 03:01:02 PM
White can be nearly invisible, except when you blow at 130 but that's something only an idiot would do. :P
Story? :)
Quote from: zarn02 on March 11, 2010, 03:06:19 PM
Story? :)
It was a bad night and probably best a tale for another day.
DON'T SELL THE COUGAR
You have an awesome hot rodding platform with the Mustang you have.
Let the modding commence!
[thumbsup]
You already know the answer. It was your fathers car. You love the Cougar. You've already started collecing Hi-Po bits to make it what you want.
Just do it bro...
five o cammer
steeda suspenders
wilwood or the like
done
Mod it, but keep it looking relatively stock. I love sleepers. [evil] Go hunting for a couple of new muscle cars (or even better - ricers) and have a little fun.
You will kick yourself for years (we'd help) if you sold the cougar.
Unless it was to me. ;D
Mod the '96-the insurance, payments (should be nothing), everything will be lower.
Quote from: DW on March 11, 2010, 04:45:46 PM
Mod it, but keep it looking relatively stock. I love sleepers. [evil] Go hunting for a couple of new muscle cars (or even better - ricers) and have a little fun.
It wouldn't change one bit from above in terms of outward appearance. I like sneaky.
Insurance is one thing that's great about the '96. Cheap license tabs as well. No payments either.
I figure it will run about $7K all told to build the 5.0 cammer....
Quote from: Speedbag on March 11, 2010, 05:22:37 PM
I figure it will run about $7K all told to build the 5.0 cammer....
I'd take that over a new stang any day of the week.
Hmmm….lots of votes for keeping the Cougar and modding the hell out of the red car. I think I see a pattern here.
The enginerd/gearhead in me would love to build another stout engine. It's been a while.
Honestly (and perhaps oddly), there isn't a whole lot of sentimental value in the '96. Before his untimely passing, Dad and I were scheming on buying a new Shelby together and the '96 would have been trade fodder. So, the desire for the GT500 started with him…and we were thinking convertible then.
Of course, the current economy may have an influence here also. Old car values are down big-time (huge, in fact), and getting what I'd need to part with the Cougar is looking like an impossibility. But, the Shelbys are victims to the inevitable late-model depreciation and poor economy as well. Go-fast parts costs remain constant, unless lucky enough to make an eBay score.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 12, 2010, 04:07:17 AM
Of course, the current economy may have an influence here also. Old car values are down big-time (huge, in fact), and getting what I'd need to part with the Cougar is looking like an impossibility. But, the Shelbys are victims to the inevitable late-model depreciation and poor economy as well. Go-fast parts costs remain constant, unless lucky enough to make an eBay score.
You should be able to score LOTS of goodies off Epay for a 96 Stang.
I'm thinking you could do almost all your chassis and suspension mods that way.
$7000 for just the engine, or does that include driveline mods to handle the power also?
Just the engine.
The only weak link in the drivetrain would be the trans (the 8.8 rears are stout). Not sure how long the T45 would hold up, although they live a surprisingly long life in some strip cars...
DO NOT SELL THE COUGAR, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get that GT some hotted up bits.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 12, 2010, 04:41:39 AM
Just the engine.
The only weak link in the drivetrain would be the trans (the 8.8 rears are stout). Not sure how long the T45 would hold up, although they live a surprisingly long life in some strip cars...
Yeah, I know about the 8.8's so no issue there. My concerns were the clutch and transmission.
Hmmm...maybe to add some 'Shelby' to the GT, how about some GT350 custom stripes or something along those lines?!?
Dunno, that might violate the low-key appearance mandate.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 12, 2010, 05:25:09 AM
Dunno, that might violate the low-key appearance mandate.
Ok yeah, but you ARE going to keep it red, so....
How about just a Shelby gas-cap and maybe some other low-low-key Shelby trim?!? Just spending your money remotely here! [cheeky]
Gas door is body color. [cheeky]
I CNCd some custom GT fender emblems out of stainless a few years back (had them on my '01 Bullitt until I sacrificed it for a truck) and was thinking of putting them on, but that was about all I considered for appearance items.
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/badge.jpg)
As incredibly ugly as I think the '96 is, I've also got to side with building your own and keeping the Cougar.
How about turbocharging the stang?
One or two hp to be gained there.
you want muscle? Ditch that heap of ford and buy a Veyron. [laugh]
Quote from: badgalbetty on March 12, 2010, 06:32:29 AM
you want muscle? Ditch that heap of ford and buy a Veyron. [laugh]
If money were no object, we wouldn't be having this discussion. [laugh]
Dude! I got it: turn your GT into a GTS! Remove your rr spoiler & pull off your fog-lights...
I always did prefer the spoiler-free look.
But to make it a true GTS I'd have to do away with the leather seats. [cheeky]
Ok, true... But how many people really know that...
Keep the Cougar.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 12, 2010, 09:13:21 AM
Keep the Cougar.
+11tyB
I have no opinion on the '96 'stang... but whatever you do, keep the Cougar.
Okay, maybe I have an opinion on the 96 Mustang: a trick 5.0 with appropriate exhaust would sound killer (and come on... most Ducatisti LOVE great engine noises), then suspension and brakes would round it out nicely.
Might want to fiddle with the weight distribution too... buddy of mine had a '98 GT and it was too light in the ass end for my tastes.
Anyway... to repeat the main point: don't really care what you do with the Mustang, but I would definitely keep the Cougar.
Quote from: lethe on March 11, 2010, 02:56:36 PM
I'm just not a big fan of red.
It's ok. Not everyone likes me. s'All good. ;D [thumbsup]
Quote from: duc_fan on March 12, 2010, 09:24:09 AM
Might want to fiddle with the weight distribution too... buddy of mine had a '98 GT and it was too light in the ass end for my tastes.
Yeah, they can be a little tail-happy.
Well....the alloy block will take about 100 pounds off the front wheels....
Quote from: Speedbag on March 12, 2010, 09:33:22 AM
Yeah, they can be a little tail-happy.
Well....the alloy block will take about 100 pounds off the front wheels....
Mustangs have always been that way IMO
Yep, but the 315s that are on the rear now help some with that.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 12, 2010, 07:48:44 AM
I'd have to do away with the leather seats. [cheeky]
and the power windows and locks, my buddy's got a 95 GTStripped
My vote (count's for nothing). Build a huge motor for the Stang, and get rid of the wing like Stew said. 700hp Super Snake sounds nice. [evil]
Something like Eleanor. [evil]
Eleanor Shelby GT 700 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHlz95JzMQo#normal)
Quote from: kopfjäger on March 12, 2010, 09:10:01 PM
700hp Super Snake sounds nice. [evil]
Drool.
That's the beauty of the GT500 - just a smaller blower pulley and a cold-air intake and *BINGO*, 600+ HP.....
Quote from: Duck-Stew on March 11, 2010, 03:47:59 PM
You already know the answer. It was your fathers car. You love the Cougar. You've already started collecing Hi-Po bits to make it what you want.
Just do it bro...
+1
If you sell the Cougar you will likey
never get another one.
As we all know, modding is great fun. Make you Dad's car into hot rod.
I've seen JY (junkyard) type twin or single turbos make 650+ to the wheels on a 351. Problem is at the point the block is long since past a liability. Building fords isn't cheap.
I vote for a swapped in FE motor and some boost, but I'm crazy.
The KR will get your attention as well. [evil]
GT 500 kr SHELBY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nElsE-ESqQ#normal)
You're not helping. :)
Quote from: TAftonomos on March 13, 2010, 05:16:13 PM
I've seen JY (junkyard) type twin or single turbos make 650+ to the wheels on a 351. Problem is at the point the block is long since past a liability.
But that's the old stuff. The Teksid aluminum 4.6 block I've got is known to be able to withstand over 1,000 HP.
[evil]
Quote from: Speedbag on March 14, 2010, 04:11:54 AM
But that's the old stuff. The Teksid aluminum 4.6 block I've got is known to be able to withstand over 1,000 HP.
[evil]
So therefore it just begs to be tested with more.
Quote from: lethe on March 14, 2010, 04:28:31 AM
So therefore it just begs to be tested with more.
The logic in this statement is undeniable.
;)
Quote from: alfisti on March 14, 2010, 02:19:00 PM
The logic in this statement is undeniable.
;)
The general consensus among the 4.6 experts says the Teksid block (named for the Italian company that produced it, as well as Ferrari blocks) is that it's good to 1,200 HP.
Don't think I'd go that far for something that needs to remain streetable though. But, the 5.0 cammer should be good for around 450 HP on its own.....slap on a Procharger with a meager 12PSI boost.....
Hmm.....
Quote from: Speedbag on March 14, 2010, 03:26:47 PM
But, the 5.0 cammer should be good for around 450 HP on its own.....slap on a Procharger with a meager 12PSI boost.....
Hmm.....
Now were talking. [evil] Oh we (you) need some nice big stoppers on there as well. [thumbsup]
I'm not a supercharger fan, but whatever floats yer boat. Exhaust driven snails FTW, everytime :)
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/ (http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/)
You know...Caterpillar does some wonderful things with turbos feeding superchargers...I'm just sayin'...
[evil]
Quote from: ZLTFUL on March 15, 2010, 04:19:52 PM
You know...Caterpillar does some wonderful things with turbos feeding superchargers...I'm just sayin'...
[evil]
Too bad they do very little on road stuff...
besides school buses and the other mundane entries.
I'm just trying to bridge the gap between the turbo camp and the supercharger camp...
As for the naturally aspirated camp...you guys are just jealous.
[cheeky]
Quote from: ZLTFUL on March 15, 2010, 04:23:21 PM
I'm just trying to bridge the gap between the turbo camp and the supercharger camp...
As for the naturally aspirated camp...you guys are just jealous.
[cheeky]
actually I aspirate naturally these days...
and there isn't much better. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on March 15, 2010, 04:21:39 PM
Too bad they do very little on road stuff...
besides school buses and the other mundane entries.
this one seems to move out pretty good, that engine might be a tight fit in the 'stang and the handling might suffer a little bit.
That's one American car I'd own. [thumbsup]
Again, the beauty of the GT500: slap on a turbo system, go to the strip, run 9s, drive it home.
[evil]
Quote from: Speedbag on March 16, 2010, 08:25:56 AM
Again, the beauty of the GT500: slap on a turbo system, go to the strip, run 9s, drive it home.
[evil]
Performance beauty, yes. The payment is likely not so beautiful... Keep your project going.
you will enjoy the build
Quote from: Speedbag on March 16, 2010, 08:25:56 AM
Again, the beauty of the GT500: slap on a turbo system, go to the strip, run 9s, drive it home.
[evil]
If it was easy, you wouldn't want to do it and you wouldn't respect it when it was done....
Now get your ass
back in the garage and don't post back up here until you have some pics of some wrenches having been turned!!!!
Quote from: ZLTFUL on March 15, 2010, 04:19:52 PM
You know...Caterpillar does some wonderful things with turbos feeding superchargers...I'm just sayin'...
[evil]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger)
Quote from: Duck-Stew on March 16, 2010, 05:52:56 PM
Now get your ass back in the garage and don't post back up here until you have some pics of some wrenches having been turned!!!!
Well, um, a certain motorcycle project needs to be finished up prior to summer.... ;)
The car's probably next winter's snowbound project.
Quote from: Speedbag on March 17, 2010, 02:21:33 AM
Well, um, a certain motorcycle project needs to be finished up prior to summer.... ;)
The car's probably next winter's snowbound project.
Good thing I'm not holding my breath on that one... [roll]
;D
Which one? [laugh]
Patience....very soon....which reminds me, I need to harass the machine shop who's making my fork brace. It should have been done months ago...
:P
Quote from: Speedbag on March 17, 2010, 02:21:33 AM
Well, um, a certain motorcycle project needs to be finished up prior to summer.... ;)
The car's probably next winter's snowbound project.
Retain focus Daniel-san... [thumbsup]
Quote from: Duck-Stew on March 17, 2010, 06:22:38 AM
Retain focus Daniel-san... [thumbsup]
No on the Focus-it'd never handle a built 5.0.
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 17, 2010, 06:54:21 AM
No on the Focus-it'd never handle a built 5.0.
Ok dork-san... Let me re-phrase it:
Retain your mental focus on the Mustang Daniel-San...
There, better?!? [roll]
Quote from: Duck-Stew on March 17, 2010, 06:57:37 AM
Ok dork-san... Let me re-phrase it:
Retain your mental focus on the Mustang Daniel-San...
There, better?!? [roll]
he can't help it Stu...
The guy wears a pocket protector. :P
Quote from: ducpainter on March 17, 2010, 09:24:08 AM
he can't help it Stu...
The guy wears a pocket protector. :P
It gets worse.
I like mopars. ;D
I can hear the starter whine now. ;D
Wrong thread, I know, but
we just got a new/used Dodge 3500 plow truck with the Cummins turbo.
I like Mopars, too [thumbsup]
Quote from: Dan on March 17, 2010, 12:15:56 PM
Wrong thread, I know, but
we just got a new/used Dodge 3500 plow truck with the Cummins turbo.
I like Mopars, too [thumbsup]
You like the Cummins...
I hope you still do when the body parts start shedding and it gets cold in that thing. [evil]
It's got a great heater, too [laugh]
Quote from: Dan on March 17, 2010, 01:59:03 PM
It's got a great heater, too [laugh]
not doors fallin' off great.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 17, 2010, 02:29:28 PM
not doors fallin' off great.
maybe engine heat blowing thru the holes in the firewall great
Quote from: lethe on March 17, 2010, 02:35:54 PM
maybe engine heat blowing thru the holes in the firewall great
There is that.
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 17, 2010, 06:54:21 AM
No on the Focus-it'd never handle a built 5.0.
http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/ (http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/)
Quote from: lethe on March 11, 2010, 03:01:02 PM
White can be nearly invisible, except when you blow by at 130 but that's something only an idiot would do. :P
We never did hear this story. ;)
UPDATE
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2010_0513Image0005.jpg)
eBay has turned up some interesting bits. Numero Uno being a set of custom forged JE pistons that just happen to be (1) for a 5.0 stroker 4.6, (2) with valve reliefs for the Trick Flow heads I plan to use, and (3) the correct oversize. And very cheap too, versus having to commission them.
Plus the proper Manley/Saleen H-beam rods and a barely used crank, which I had checked out to be safe. All is good.
All told, once I buy rod/main bearings and have the block bored, I'll have about $1800 in the aluminum short block. About a grand less than I was anticipating. With the parts I have scrounged, the bottom end will be good to 700 HP, the rods being the "weak" link.
Stay tuned. :)
I love you man... [evil] [evil] [evil] [evil] [evil] [evil] [evil]
My pants are tight...
Quote from: alfisti on May 13, 2010, 07:30:38 PM
My pants are tight...
Then put on some jeans for God's sake.
(http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/hood/images/merrymen2.jpg)
OK, peeps. I caved.
Red Car is no more. I did the math, and once I had everything accounted for to pull off my build, the cost was in excess of 1.5 times what the car was worth. Not including the possibility of grenading the trans, which would have bumped that figure substantially.
So I bought this wee beastie three weeks ago:
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2010_0712Image0001.jpg)
Put down my budget for the Red Car build as down payment plus a tad more, got what I wanted trading the '96 off, plus the car was fairly cheap as GT500s go (a couple grand less than expected from months of on-again, off-again research). This thing is a make the beast with two backsing beast as it came from the factory....I can't wait to gear it down (with the 3.73s from the parts shelf) and mod it a tad.
Don't worry - the Cougar remains in my possession. So far I'm money ahead on peddling the parts I had collected.
And this is what Dad and I were plotting all along. [evil]
[thumbsup]
Quote from: Speedbag on August 06, 2010, 01:14:30 PM
So I bought this wee beastie three weeks ago:
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2010_0712Image0001.jpg)
[evil] [thumbsup] I knew I could steer you in the right direction. 8)
Quote from: Speedbag on August 06, 2010, 01:14:30 PM
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2010_0712Image0001.jpg)
I need that for my daily driver. Awesome ride!
JM