Ducati Monster Forum

This has officially begun.  

Something wicked this way comes  [thumbsup]

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/DSC01609.jpg)

Take notice of the color of the valve covers :D  I have to go pick it up in a few weeks, but it's a "good" start

1000ds motor is enroute as well, should be hear early next week.

I spoke with Chris Kelly, who will be my source for FCR's and ignition bits for the ds motor.

This is gonna be fun :)

 [evil]

Yes this is going to be fun to watch.  Looking forward to seeing this project.  So, is that the same DS1000 engine that was mentioned before in the previous thread?

Indeed it is.  Once he packed it, I plugged the numbers into UPS... came out to be $89 to ship it ?!?!?!  Sounds good to me :).

I'll have to save a bit for the FCR's, the ignition, and a few other odds and ends, but that "base" bike is loaded already...and most of it I'll be re-using.

 [popcorn]
I too am doing a 2v sbk, your other threads got me thinking of something I've been trying to forget about.  I bought most of that 916/SS on ebay, I'll start my own thread when anything starts happening.  Can't wait to watch your progress, mine will probably be slower.

I just got off the phone with Paul actually, cool dude!

Congrats on that purchase, I had my eyes on it as well.  LMK if you need forks, I've got 2 sets now that I need to sell (999 and 1098)  [thumbsup]

Yeah, Paul's been great.  He sold me the custom built exhaust and a couple other bits that are unique to this bike.  I'll cruise over to the parts section and take a look.

Damn son,
I can't see the valve covers, I am blinded by the gold on the shock...

I'm envisioning a 749 with a SSSA and am quickly becoming envious!  Even better, with an air cooled motor [thumbsup].  Can't wait to see the progress on this one [popcorn]

 [thumbsup] [popcorn]

Hint, they are mag [thumbsup].  Came stock on one bike, for 2 years.  They arn't staying cause I'm not going to use a 4v powerplant.

  [bacon] to first poster that knows the answer [laugh]

Is it a set of magnesium wheels which are the same color as those valve covers? 

Good luck with your new DS1000.  How much are the FCR's gonna cost you?  Have you decided to go with stock pistons or are you going to go for something bigger? 

looks like an R to me, either 749 or 999. I'm guessing 749. Those are sweet chassis to build on.

Chromo gets the (http://blahblahblog.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/bacon.jpg)

Didn't know 749's got the mag covers, this is the big one.

Unsure on the big bore kit at this point.  Realistically, I wasn't planning to move nearly this fast on the project.  Might be awhile before I can get the FCR's.  Around $1500 all said and done for the FCR singles, stuff to put them on, and the ignition parts new from Chris.  I'm sure I could piece them together cheaper, but unless I come across some sweet deals on ebay, I'll be getting them from him.  He helped me out the last time I bought FCR's for my 900ss, and it's time to support the guys that need it.   [thumbsup]

I think he deserves some higher resolution bacon.

Are you selling off the motor?

Is the R frame any different from the regular 749/999 frame?

+1 on motor sale...!

Can't wait to see your progress..

Yup, low mileage R motor with fresh valve setting/clearance and fresh belts (Feb).  4900 miles on the engine, Perfect condition.  PM me for details/offers.

To my knowledge, there are a few differences in the frame, but nothing major (materials/tube size, etc are same).  Geometry wise it's the same as well.

1000ds motor arrived, in sad shape I must say.

Was bouncing around in it's container and even tried to leave it.  UPS says no our problem.

Doesn't appear to have any cracks in the case, so I'm fairly sure it's OK.  Major problem is the guy who shipped it put a bunch of loose bolts in the box....and the front cylinder and piston are off.....so I guess I've got to split the cases now to make sure there isn't anything hiding in there.


To remove the heads, do I need the special cam sprocket tool ?  Looks like the backside of the belt cover needs to come off.

I need to find someone to walnut shell blast the cases

I need to find/fab a motor stand

749R had eccentric in head stock, didn't it?

You'll need a tool to install the head nuts, but usually not to remove them (box end wrench should get in there).  There is a special tool to remove the cam pulley nut but some people have found alternatives around that...  Me?  I bought the OEM Ducati tool.  It was expensive, but has survived for 4 years now...

I've got the bar needed to torque the head studs....I'm just wondering if I need to remove the cam pulley to remove the heads.

Email'd you about some rods btw...

You won't need to remove the cam pulley before taking the heads off.  Email replied to.

is this that Cafe build i was reading about, or a track bike sbk?

So...you're taking a perfectly good 749R motor out of the 749R frame, selling it, and replacing it with a carbureted 1000DS motor? This conversion will include switching the bike over to a SSS which fits the 1000DS motor?

May I ask why? Is there anything wrong with the 749R which is driving this?

true, why not find an out of good condition sbk instead?

...or a Supersport frame. Seems it would be easier and cheaper.

It's a 999r, and I guess it's because I can :)

Update....apparently the motor was out of a multistrada....which means the SBK arm will bolt on.  Woot!

Dang...a 999R even.  :o

Well, I think you're crazy...a 999R is a bad machine! Personally I'd pick up a newer style Supersport frame and pimp that out. Good luck though...I'll follow it for sure.  [thumbsup]

Be sure to get before and after weights on the project. It'll be interesting to see how much slower you made it.  ;)  ;D

Did you buy the 749R from anyone in Atlanta? I've only met one person with that bike.

The idea is to use a kick ass chassis, which the 999r (any 999 w/27mm offset) is.  Just happened on this bike, so thats what I'm using.  A SS chassis would be going the wrong direction for what I want.  This is the "easy" way.

Hell, I make the 999 slow just by getting on it.  Don't need 150whp for a track toy, and no this bike won't be covered up with fairings either...

Do you have a weight goal?

(yes, for the bike)

SS frames are junk, 999 frames are superb, I don't think he's going for easy and cheap either.

yup

I'd disagree about the SS frames...

compared to a 999 or in general?

Both...

The 999 chassis is not all that different from a 748-9**. I own one (996) and the things are brutal to get turned.

The SS on the other hand, which I've also owned, was easy to turn and reasonably stable at speed.

I'm not discounting the superiority of the SBK chassis at all, just that the SS is far from crap and both have their strong points for different riders.

MUST do the 27mm offset and flip the eccentric around on the 999.  1 line on the forks showing, rear axle back near the limit, and the ride height up there....she will turn :)

Stock they are very stable, but you really need to muscle them around.  Dropping the triples and raising the height will help a bunch...but nothing feels like that new offset and eccentric change.  You can change just the eccentric without doing the new triples...if you dare.  I didn't like it at all setup like that.

CA-Cycleworks tells me a FCR'd 1000ds motor will make 100+hp to the tire.  Unless I mis-understood him that was with stock heads as well!

I'd like to say 300lbs is my goal, but BST's arn't in my budget, and neither is a Ti frame.  I think I can hit 350 fairly easily.  I've also been thinking about a single rotor/caliper, as mentioned above.  I suppose if the bike isn't heavy, that ought to work just fine?!?

the R has an aluminum subframe doesn't it? That should help

All the mono bikes do :)  Like Stew said, it'll get a "trimming" :)

749R > 999R.

Its not as bad as if he'd taken the 749R frame. That'd be real shame.

no i think with that's with the MBP testarossa heads

Those were 900's bored for 95mm pistons (964cc...err "966" Monsters and SSs)

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/heads/heads.html (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/heads/heads.html)

All the frames are the same on the 999 bikes (OEM).  There isn't one that is better, or one that has better geometry.  The 749 does have an eccentric in the triple, which is seperate from the headstock (kinda a double eccentric) which allows you to change the triple offset and the steering angle. All the other 999's (save the dark) can adjust the steering head angle, but to get the magic geometry you need to purchase an aftermarket triple with different offset.

The 100hp to the tire was on stock cams, stock heads w/FCR's.  

You can spend the money on MBP heads with the factory fuel injection to get 100hp on the 1000ds motor
You can spend the money on MBP heads with FCR's on a 900 to get 100hp.

You can get 120hp w/fcr's, headwork and big bore on a 1000ds  [thumbsup]

A real shame?  Comeon now, you're not one of those elitist subscribers to the daily church-o-ducati's scriptures....are you? [laugh]  I bought the 999r cause the motor is worth more for parting, which is what is helping fund this project.  There was/is an equally nice 749r, that was the first choice...but I found the 999r

you should use that extra R motor money for headwork and a big bore

120hp 2v  :o

How do flat-slides get almost 20% more power out of the DS1000 motor? Are the stock throttle-bodies too small? This seems to be opposed to everything I've ever read. I'm open to learning more and I'm certainly not stuck on EFI, carbs are definitely easier to work on on the side of the road.

It is a good question.  My DS1000 made 86 hp on the dyno.  It had termi mufflers, PCIII and pod filters.  To jump up to 100 hp is a pretty big jump.  I guess we'll see in time when Theo or others dyno their bikes after installing the FCRs.

One of the issues with the pod filters is, this is a bit of a pro/con.

Pros:
High flow
Low Clutter
Allows more air to hit vertical cylinder, leading to cooler running vertical cylinder, which (beyond reliability pluses) may lead to a more efficient vertical cylinder.

Cons:
Low volume of still air. Big bore ducs inhale tons of air with each intake stroke (492cc's each intake stroke on the 900). Large airboxes allow for lots of still-air for each intake stroke. Some of the tuner websites proclaim a min vol (for max power) of at least 1.5x volume.

Beyond the pods, (going to a large airbox for more available air at each intake stroke) I'm not sure of other intake related changes that would get you more air. Perhaps the FCRs flow more fuel than the stock injectors can put out.

When you go to FCRs, what do you do about fuel pump? I know that some guys have been going to electric fuel pumps (running around 2 psi) for the carb bikes when their vacuum pump quits. Looks like it would be as simple as plugging it into a switched circuit.

For reasons I can't explain, lots of people have posted gains by getting rid of the airbox on 2v bikes and going to pods.  There are a few places that make kits for this (ducshop, WASP, TPO, etc) and plenty of reviews online to check dyno graphs.

The 4v bikes do not respond the same way from my understanding.

Also remember, dyno to dyno comparisons mean very little.  It's runs on the same dyno that count (or 1/4 mile MPH speeds for another way to measure HP)

Its interesting that its advised on the FI bikes, but the majority of opinions "back in the day" for carbies advised the opposite (though it would make tinkering with carbs far easier). I remember doing searches on the .MS site, and a few others when I was trying to figure out which route to take. Never sure if I did "right", in that I still hate the giant ugly plastic airbox, but won't be changing it until I have a better idea. Perhaps FCR41's, pods, and a custom carbon fiber battery/coil tray is in the works for next winter.

This is interesting stuff, but i'm no where near as educated in this stuff as you guys. So I can continue to keep up, can you post a picture example of the "ugly" airbox? ANd explain what an FCR is? thanks [thumbsup]

you have a 696 your design is different and none of this really pertains to you. so get out.  ;D jk

ugly airbox is well the aribox seen through the frame.
FCR= a model of  carburators made by Keihin or something like that.

to my understanding the TPO and pod filters did give you more power, but all the power was top range power because they had more surface area. Where as ato memphis mentioned, less static air meant less low end power.

Yes. To both and the high end v. low end with/without the airbox

If you really want to know the + or - of this mod on the 2V. Call Mark at the Ducshop. He will give you real world, on the track no bullshit answer to your question.

That was in fact proven on a dyno.

The 4V bikes like a large still air source.

I dynoed with airbox and with Pods on the same dyno and there was no difference (oke' pods were 0.5 hp lower ;D)

That difference may have been able to be tuned out though...

or did you try?

999R's are good bikes. Fragile but good.
www.eldrat.com (http://) read his racing blog.
He did BGB's tattoos.
Thanks Drat.
BGB

how was the line though? You get people comparing 999 to the 848 all day long and how much power the 848 makes, but its felt in a different area of the rev range. Thats what i assume about the pods. I mean hell if you run open udder vs full stock exhaust theres a huge shift in power from downlow grunt around 4,000rpm ish that shifts up to 5,000rpms without the exhaust.

Care to share Mark's findings? I'm curious (but not enough to waste the DucShop's time by calling him) ;)

Just as a matter of interest, I have MBP's 966 big bore build in my fuel injected Monster. It puts out approximately 98RwHP / 70lb/ft torque with the stock 900ie cam. Unsightly stock airbox in place, with a full open top and a K&N airfilter. I'd considered doing a pod conversion but the motor works great as it is. I moved my attention onto fiddling with my ST instead.

Hmm...someone else in the industry mentioned I could use a 999 harness, some hyper TB's, and slap a nemisis or microtech ecu on the thing....Similar cost to the fcr's.

First thing is first, get the motor torn down, crank off to Ben Fox, and start making it look presentable.  Motor is here :)

FCR's probably have good resell value in case you take this bike apart down the road and want to sell off the pieces.  There is something cool about putting FCR's on a DS1000 too.  I guess because it isn't common. 

you'll need the in airbox wiring harness from the 999 for the tps and injector connectors, as the 999 has a big screw lock connector in the loom, but apart from that everything will be the same loom and hardware wise.  all 2v throttle bodies are the same with some injector variation, so any will do.  injecting it is easy.  you could get an ecu reflashed to some sort of 1000/1100ds map to work in it.

Here's a link to a build on the ms site, guy has a carbed 1kds with del'ortos

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=54249&page=2 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=54249&page=2)

So...
Get that R yet?

As a matter of fact....  [thumbsup]  Just got back with it.  Once I get some food in me, I'll take some pics and post them up.

Then it's 5 bloody marys so the church of ducati will forgive my sins....before I rip it's heart out and sell it on the open market.  Muahahahahahaa

Dr Evil's Laughing Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7edeOEuXdMU#)

I think they will forgive you when they see the finished product, if not...make the beast with two backs it, it's your bike

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/999R/DSC_0303.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/999R/DSC_0301.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/999R/DSC_0300.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/999R/DSC_0298.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/999R/DSC_0296.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/999R/DSC_0292.jpg)


Makes me want to get a 999r to keep  [thumbsup]

Wow that thing is pretty nice, it's going to make for a f'n sweet project.  Keeping the red frame?  Using the 999 tank and seat?  What are you planning for the tail?

Going to keep the tank/seat/tail/fender.  Need to come up with something else for the nose.  If I was good with fiberglass (I'm not), I'd make a smaller version of a 999 nose and mount a single projector in it.  Something 1/4 fairing ish, and maybe a belly pan.  Red frame, yup.  Maybe buy a glass upper fairing (nose and upper sides are one piece of the race-kit stuff) and find someone talanted to make the sides (or lack of) look good when I chop them off....

I'll be stripping this thing down this coming week, and most of the big bits are already pre-sold.  I want to weigh the frame, and then weigh the other 999 frame I've got...just to see if they are actually lighter (doubt it).

Nice, look forward to the updates.  You're going to have quite the stable...S4Rs, ST?, 2V SBK & KTM enduro.  I think you have all the bases covered nicely.   [thumbsup]