Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: bdfinally on March 31, 2010, 03:38:08 AM

Title: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on March 31, 2010, 03:38:08 AM
Got on the bike going to work yesterday and about 2 miles later the bike is running like it's out of gas. Pull over and the thing about dies. plenty of gas sloshing around in the tank, so I check the plugs to see if they're fouled. Not pretty but ok. Crank it up runs ok, pull off and it wants to die. Hit the choke and head back to home to grab the car. rough running and wants to die at any light. Anyway get it home and grabbed the car. Come home, change both plugs, check all connections on the coils because I had a lead loose on one a couple of weeks ago, when I finally pulled the pods off and installed a TPO kit. It cranks and idles fine now, but once I get into second gear it starts spitting and sputtering. It sat out in a very heavy heavy rain we got the other day and I added fresh gas yesterday evening. It ran fine on Sunday when I took it out after finally completing the front forks, but before the rain. Any thoughts on where I might start? thanks in advance.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on March 31, 2010, 03:43:49 AM
It sounds like water in the fuel.

I'd drain the bowls and add a small amount of drygas or a product recommended to rejuvenate ethanol fuel. Remember if you add much drygas you'll be increasing the alcohol content of the fuel.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: MongoReturns on April 01, 2010, 05:37:23 AM
You also may want to rebuild your fuel pump, if you haven't already.  Mine recently kicked the bucket.  Sympoms were starts for a bit then stalls out.  It started due to gavity putting a little fuel in the carb.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 01, 2010, 07:43:32 PM
Kewl, thanks guys. I think I'm also going to throw a new fuel filter on it for S&G's. Anyone got a part number other than "3047" for the Autozone replacement, that number doesn't seem to be any good thru their online search. DP have you got a specific product you're happy with or just any drygas product? Also if this doesn't work out, any FHE with the Mikuni fuel pump Chris is selling at CA-Cycleworks?
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: koko64 on April 01, 2010, 09:26:27 PM
Quote from: bdfinally on April 01, 2010, 07:43:32 PM
Kewl, thanks guys. I think I'm also going to throw a new fuel filter on it for S&G's. Anyone got a part number other than "3047" for the Autozone replacement, that number doesn't seem to be any good thru their online search. DP have you got a specific product you're happy with or just any drygas product? Also if this doesn't work out, any FHE with the Mikuni fuel pump Chris is selling at CA-Cycleworks?

For the price of a rebuild kit I would buy the Mikuni pump at Cal Cycleworks before I rebuilt the stocker.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 02, 2010, 02:13:56 AM
I'm using startron right now.

But that is more for storage...in place of Stabil. You can use a small amount of any type drygas.

I'd take things one step at a time rather than doing a wholesale rebuild of the fuel system.

That way if things go sour you'll know where you are.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: MongoReturns on April 02, 2010, 06:47:20 AM
Quote from: koko64 on April 01, 2010, 09:26:27 PM
For the price of a rebuild kit I would buy the Mikuni pump at Cal Cycleworks before I rebuilt the stocker.

Yes, only $10 difference between rebuild kit & a new square Mikuni pump.  But I'm fond of the old pentagon, don't know why.  However, if you haven't had it replaced or rebuilt, it's going to go soon.

As for the filter, make sure you get one with a 90 degree bend in the output tube.  I got one at I think Autozone without a bend, and it's a rear pain in the ass.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 04, 2010, 03:44:16 PM
OK, threw some Stabil in the other night and drained the bowls today and no improvement. Picked up a new fuel filter at Advance Auto (Puralator F20005) today so I'll try that tomorrow. The hose clamps on fuel lines to the filter are something I've never dealt with, they look almost crimped together...how do you loosen them? I've also got a line on a rebuild kit that's only a day away by UPS, so I guess I'll try that after the filter. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance, guys.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 04, 2010, 04:01:04 PM
Stabil won't rejuvenate old fuel to the best of my knowledge.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: MongoReturns on April 04, 2010, 04:07:32 PM
Ha!  Those clips are a pain in the ass.  You need to compress them then stick a little screwdriver under the latching part to un-clip it.  At least they're re-usable.  To put back on, just compress the thing together again and it'll catch.

I use needle nose pliers on the raised parts, then stick a little flathead in to gently pry the locking part up.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 04, 2010, 04:10:18 PM
It's not old fuel, less than 2 weeks on this tank. I thought SB removed water from fuel?
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 04, 2010, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: bdfinally on April 04, 2010, 04:10:18 PM
It's not old fuel, less than 2 weeks on this tank. I thought SB removed water from fuel?
Yeah...rain...I remember now.

I guess they claim it does. I've never used it for that.

Did you see water in the fuel you drained from the bowls?
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 04, 2010, 04:34:14 PM
I just picked it up while I was pricing water heaters the other day [bang]. I did pick up some seafoam today since it was on sale...would that work better?
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 04, 2010, 04:35:54 PM
Quote from: MongoReturns on April 04, 2010, 04:07:32 PM
Ha!  Those clips are a pain in the ass.  You need to compress them then stick a little screwdriver under the latching part to un-clip it.  At least they're re-usable.  To put back on, just compress the thing together again and it'll catch.

I use needle nose pliers on the raised parts, then stick a little flathead in to gently pry the locking part up.

Thanks mongo, I'll pull the needlenose and third hand outta the toolbox and give it a shot. ;D
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 04, 2010, 04:45:17 PM
seafoam should work pretty good.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 04, 2010, 04:45:50 PM
Quote from: bdfinally on April 04, 2010, 04:34:14 PM
I just picked it up while I was pricing water heaters the other day [bang]. I did pick up some seafoam today since it was on sale...would that work better?
I've never tried seafoam.

If you saw water in the fuel you drained from the bowls, I'd use a little drygas.

If you don't see water in the float bowl I guess you should consider that you have a different problem.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 04, 2010, 04:47:39 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on April 04, 2010, 04:45:50 PM
If you don't see water in the float bowl I guess you should consider that you have a different problem.

Indeed. Like the vacuum petcock and the vacuum fuel pump, and the related vacuum lines.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 04, 2010, 05:05:37 PM
Quote from: a m on April 04, 2010, 04:47:39 PM
Indeed. Like the vacuum petcock and the vacuum fuel pump, and the related vacuum lines.
Pretty coincidental the bike sat in a downpour and suddenly runs like crap....
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 04, 2010, 05:22:07 PM
Indeed. I am just thinking about the carb system and where problems seem to be cropping up.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 05, 2010, 02:46:43 PM
Looks like water to me and alot. Wouldn't it be prudent to just lose this tank of fuel and put entirely fresh back in? Also, in draining the bowls again today, I noticed that the left carb drained itself dry in less than a minute, but the right one acted just like a spigot, ran the majority of the pic from it and showed no sign of slowing down until I closed it back up

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/fuelwatermix.jpg)
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 05, 2010, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: bdfinally on April 05, 2010, 02:46:43 PM
Looks like water to me and alot. Wouldn't it be prudent to just lose this tank of fuel and put entirely fresh back in? Also, in draining the bowls again today, I noticed that the left carb drained itself dry in less than a minute, but the right one acted just like a spigot, ran the majority of the pic from it and showed no sign of slowing down until I closed it back up

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/fuelwatermix.jpg)
Yes, absolutely drain the tank. Add a small amount of dry gas to the tank to get any water that remains.

It sounds like your vacuum petcock has failed. You should replace it with a manual shutoff. Parts Unlimited sells a Pingel copy for short money that works great.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 05, 2010, 03:34:22 PM
I should add that a Motion Pro manual petcock is also dirty cheap. And 5/16" or whatever, just right for our carbonsters.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 05, 2010, 03:39:37 PM
I wonder why they say it's not recommended for over 300cc?

It makes no sense.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 05, 2010, 03:42:19 PM
I decided that was fair game for disregarding. It seemed arbitrary and I could only imagine such limitations could be imposed for placing a petcock in line after a fuel pump, where the pressure would be high (fuel injection?). Seemed like a real non-issue for me, so I decided to grab at it anyhow. Time will tell whether or not it functions properly. There's really nothing to break...
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 05, 2010, 05:14:33 PM
Thanks guys [clap]

Is this what your talking about AM?

(http://www.bikebandit.com/assets/product_images/10MotionProInLnFuelVlv0996MD.gif)
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 05, 2010, 05:40:58 PM
Quote from: bdfinally on April 05, 2010, 05:14:33 PM
Thanks guys [clap]

Is this what your talking about AM?

(http://www.bikebandit.com/assets/product_images/10MotionProInLnFuelVlv0996MD.gif)
I believe it is.

The one from PU is right angle and has a lever rather than a knob.

I'll see if I can find a pic.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 05, 2010, 06:34:16 PM
Yeah, that's the one I got. The PU one looks purty good too.

http://www.parts-unlimited.com/product/getProductDetails.do?regions=6&segmentId=4&comCodeId=87&subComCodeId=&itemOffset=140&pageSize=20&productId=46723 (http://www.parts-unlimited.com/product/getProductDetails.do?regions=6&segmentId=4&comCodeId=87&subComCodeId=&itemOffset=140&pageSize=20&productId=46723)

(http://services.lemanscorp.com/images/size/260/media/edge/1010000/1014100/1014142.png)
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 05, 2010, 07:15:10 PM
Ok, I'll search around and see which one I can get the quickest. I noticed the motion pro is listed for a 5/8 line and the PU is 1/4. I haven't measured the fuel line, so guess I need to do that before ordering. The other thing is whether to mount it inline before or after the fuel pump.

Another thing I need to think about is how all that water got in there. The bike sits outside all the time and except for winter, I almost never cover it. Usually it has a bit of cover from the house, but not much. Think it's time to check out a new gas cap?
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 05, 2010, 07:20:09 PM
5/8" is appropriate. I put mine in before the fuel pump.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 06, 2010, 02:09:11 AM
Quote from: bdfinally on April 05, 2010, 07:15:10 PM
Ok, I'll search around and see which one I can get the quickest. I noticed the motion pro is listed for a 5/8 line and the PU is 1/4. I haven't measured the fuel line, so guess I need to do that before ordering. The other thing is whether to mount it inline before or after the fuel pump.

Another thing I need to think about is how all that water got in there. The bike sits outside all the time and except for winter, I almost never cover it. Usually it has a bit of cover from the house, but not much. Think it's time to check out a new gas cap?
Check the cap area drain to be sure it isn't blocked, or the hose pinched...

10 bucks says it is.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 07, 2010, 02:30:09 PM
Well drained everything, threw a gallon of gas with 1 1/2 oz of seafoam in it and she cranked and ran like a champ to the gas store for a full tank. Pull the cap off and found this

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/fuelcap.jpg)

the vent and drain had some crud in top of them, clean them out and ran about 6 inches of 22 ga steel wire down both. Would a couple of dabbs of silicone keep that rubber boot in place or does the cap when closed, push it down?
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 07, 2010, 02:37:37 PM
Is that water i spy in the middle there?

Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 07, 2010, 02:43:49 PM
 [laugh]

No, it's leaned over on the sidestand, I think your just seeing the light from my flash entering in a weird way
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: junior varsity on April 07, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
i was wondering what that circular substance in the middle was. I'll be... its a reflection.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 07, 2010, 02:53:01 PM
If I had a bald coconut I'd cop a plea, but nope, still got some rug up there
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 07, 2010, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: bdfinally on April 07, 2010, 02:30:09 PM
Well drained everything, threw a gallon of gas with 1 1/2 oz of seafoam in it and she cranked and ran like a champ to the gas store for a full tank. Pull the cap off and found this

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/fuelcap.jpg)

the vent and drain had some crud in top of them, clean them out and ran about 6 inches of 22 ga steel wire down both. Would a couple of dabbs of silicone keep that rubber boot in place or does the cap when closed, push it down?
Do you have a charcoal canister?

I thought not. ;D

Throw that rubber thing away. ;)

If you have an air compressor, or access to one, blow through the cap area drain to make sure it is clear.

The other one which used to go to the charcoal canister doesn't amount to squat.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: MongoReturns on April 08, 2010, 05:13:38 AM
Glad you're back on the road!  Got a pic of the tank graphics?  I'm intrigued.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: ducpainter on April 08, 2010, 05:20:29 AM
Quote from: MongoReturns on April 08, 2010, 05:13:38 AM
Glad you're back on the road!  Got a pic of the tank graphics?  I'm intrigued.
That's one of those early DP tanks.

There was a series with a bunch of different designs.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: MongoReturns on April 08, 2010, 06:57:37 AM
Wow I remember those!  Blast from the past.  I recall crapping a pickle when I found out how much they were.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: bdfinally on April 08, 2010, 09:37:48 AM
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3347957732_2c30727083_o.jpg)

I entertained the thought of going for a regular dark tank when I got the bike, just because it sits outside, but the Dark was actually MORE expensive .

You'll occasionally see one come up for sale on ebay still.
Title: Re: '00 M750 running rough
Post by: MongoReturns on April 09, 2010, 05:48:27 AM
Sweet!  And so clean!  Mine looks like a filthy ogre that lives in an oil-filled swamp.