Ducati Monster Forum

.... to the monster that is!

When I bought the S2R800 I knew the brakes and suspension were the weak points of the bike but with my riding skills I didn’t think it would ever matter. Now having ridden a few other Ducs with better grade suspension and brakes I’m starting to get sick of bouncing around. I now know the confidence that comes from good quality suspension and brakes and I’m really not feeling confident anymore. Just cruising around is fine but when I want to push it a bit I really feel like I’m on the edge of control and it could all end up crap so I end up backing off.  (BTW I don’t think this is an issue that rider training will overcome).

I’ve been reading threads about upgrading suspension and brakes on the S2R800 but all the options take a bit of cash and luck finding the right parts. The other option for much the same cost is to upgrade the bike but I don’t feel I need more power than I have and this option would require selling the current ride. This also opens me up to the option of buying something else like a superbike (I’m thinking 848 or even 999’s are getting reasonably priced). Then again I think this is probably overkill and would eventually result in me doing my licence. I also like the street fighter but it will also threaten my demerit points.

So you can see my problem and how my thoughts go around in circles. I’m sure I’m not the first to have this issue. I’m not looking for someone to tell me what to do, just some other experiences so I can decide what to do. Anyone been here before and wanna chime in?

wash your brain out with soap  :o .....  [laugh]

Have you ridden a S2R1000?  Or maybe even an S4RS?  I know they are very different bikes but one or the other may be what you are needing for the better handling. (or does the S2R1000 have the same handling issues?)

I haven't ridden either (or the 800).  But I know what a difference it made going to my 1000S after being on a jap 750.

And then there's always the 1100.

I was at that point a year or two ago.
Because of the tax policy in my country, I wasn't able to upgrade to a 1k or S4R.

I was already deep into mods on my S2R 800, so I decided to keep going.
Suspension and brakes followed.

My point is: You might find that the 800 is all you need if you upgrade it.
The transformation was huge and I'm now comfortable following SBKs in the twisties and can equal most bikes on the track (well, not the experienced SBK riders)

I want more power, I want Öhlins forks and I will get there one day.
My mods have married me to my bike though - I will probably stay with her another couple of years.

Hey Techno, Stoppie has nailed it ... it is a point most S2R800 owners reach at some time. Your best bet is to go back a few months and buy Bazz's S2R1K ... sorry.

Stoppie has been able to console himself with the Norwegian tax headache and I can feel better knowing the S21K was not available when I got my bike. But truth be known the 800 is more than I will ever need on the road, but I still reached this/that point. Having already poured money into the bike and knowing that I will keep her as long as possible I just kept going. Most but not all things will transfer across to the S2R1K ... your luggage and modified pillion pegs for example (afterall you both need to be happy about the upgrade).

The 1K will give you adjustable suspension, better brakes (calipers, discs and master cylinders), a dry clutch (so you have something else to spend money on) and a decent amount of extra oomph without being stupid about it. Other than the heavier clutch it would improve things enough to make a difference without going over the top IMO (and your pillion riding would probably be a bit easier ... see where I am going with this?).

On the downside the spring rates will probably still need to be changed, you may not be able to carry across all your 800 mods and it will cost you money.

We recently had the discussion with Brett76 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=36228.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=36228.0)) about the brake options and there are a few other things you may be able to do to improve things without spending too much or swapping the bike. Tweaks to the suspension should make a big difference in your cornering confidence (well it did to me) ... you just don't want to go too far down this path (or any) and realise you are still not happy.

Brakes: pads and master cylinders would be your cheapest ...and may be enough, perhaps even a change of brake lines.

Suspension: you may be happy with the correct rate spring or spacers to set preload and influence the damping by changing oil weight. You probably should do these things with an 1K anyway.

In summary I think the 800 is a pretty good bike for the street but the most desirable modifications are: suspension, brakes and exhaust ... and for each of these it easy to spend $2k+ (obviously there are cheaper options available) ... and that value equation is something only your wife can decide [cheeky]

I still haven't heard the option of putting the pillion on the 800 and finding something new for yourself ;D

As usual I have probably made things worse and your mental anguish will continue unabated [bang] [laugh]

I concur with Stopie and Betty
I am having enough trouble keeping it in my pants and holding my license
as it is so I did the suspension thing .
My little Duckling goes like stink in the corners now and keeps up with
most of you on the street.
So I will sit on this bike for as long as it takes to find the right s2r1000
or keep it as a commute and grab a SF for play days when the price goes down.

Hi Techno.

Been there, done that, similar to Stopintimes mods, great post by the way.

Have put the S2R1000 forks on, revalved and sprung on my 800, big world of difference. Just some fine tuning at the moment.
I've kept the same 800 brakes. I'm not one of the last great brakers, and don't do any track days. Different pads will help.

Main thing that won't swap over onto the S2R1000 is your exhaust system, and cam belt covers. Still get the forks worked over though. Oh and yes a whole other lot of bling to look at...clutch.

Keep in mind, that depending on your riding, once you get better handling, you'll probably want some more power, especially if you're chasing others.

So......IMHO, and I'm no drip under pressure (Expert...squirt) have a look and possible ride of a S2R1000.

Cheers.
Madalf.

Obviously a madman [roll] [cheeky]

Just be careful as chasing may also lead to a requirement to brake like 'they' do with their radial monoblocs, etc, etc.

My own upgrades were inspired by trying to keep up with Jukie who I noticed braking a lot later into corners ... new brakes fixed that. Then there was the pogo-ing around the corners that followed ... and the suspension upgrade. Her post-operative lack of mojo then lulled me into a sense of achievement ... now with the mojo returned I am under no illusions as to my lack of ability (perhaps its a lack of faith, or daring).

Everything works in concert - power, braking, suspension and ability . An improve in one area will bring about a need to improve another area. That improvement will then highlight other shortcoming, etc, etc and the cycle continues.

True, very true - and I love it [thumbsup]

(in my dreams that cycle peaks with me on a MotoGP podium. After that I expect the cycle to reverse...)

I totally hear what you guys are saying but my cycle never changes, all the issues are with me !

Now come on play fair ... different baseline you're talking about there.

But regardless of the relative abilities of machine and rider ... sometimes it may seem more hard work than it is worth. If you are starting to struggle with the machine it is time to make changes so you can start enjoying yourself again (or increase your enjoyment nearer to others).

MMM....... All very interesting reading, and I would agree on what has been said regarding suspension upgrades and also ditto with brakes, on brakes you could start with a simple upgrade of brake pads and go from there. What would you do next? How about an upgrade of yourself? Talking about some rider training, learning to get the best from your bike in the most economical way, I dont profess to be the best rider around far from it, but I do find it gratifying knowing that I got the best from the bike regardless of who is out in front, so, think about an upgrade for yourself.



Just my 2c worth (hope it helps)








                         Mmick

I certainly think your words count on this Mmick. I certainly respect your ability on the bike and I would not hesitate to state that of all the riders I have been on the road with, that you are definitely in that small top group of very capable riders.

Basically, I won't cloud the issue further techno, but I for one would listen to that wise sage, monsterrmick!  [thumbsup]

Thanks but.... :-[ :-[ :-[  also fixed the 'sage' bit for ya.







                               Mmick (adding another 2c worth, letsee thats now 4c)

Howdy All.

OK the issue is getting a tad cloudy, we can't see the forrest for the trees.
S2R800 standard forks are just OK for metro commuting and that's about it.
I defy any S2R800 rider with standard forks to say that they aren't.
Spider will attest to how far I backed off on anything but smooth corners on Gippy ride last year.
FYI, I still have my standard forks stored if anyone wants the experience.

Techno, it's either rework em, fork swap or other bike.
Food for thought, if you put a nice set of forks on your 800, if/when you do decide to power up to a 1000, you can take the forks with you.

Cheers

Alf.H.

I wrestled with this Demon with my S2R 800 and I decided to go down the upgrade path, but I did it while also keeping a close eye on the bottom line, I also was happy with the suspension until I realized just how bad it was, so I looked at a number of different options and found (for me anyway) I replaced the rear shock with an Ohlins from Motowheels and put new springs and different oil in the front forks, all up cost about $1000. Massive amount of difference!  [thumbsup]

Until the budget allowed I ordered new brake pads from CA Cycleworks and that made a world of difference, still never as good as a set of Monoblocks, but still much better than OEM.
I managed to get one of the last Goldline upgrade kits for the S2R 800, Night and day difference, still not as good as the Radials on the S4R, but pretty damn close
All up for the front brakes it was $900

You can chase up the brakes from wrecked bikes and the like (Keep an eye on the Parts for sale board and Ebay) but my personal thoughts, spend the money on the 800, they are a great bike, and it's not such a massive jump to fix those problems

Which is less than they were retail (can't remember exactly but was quoted over $1000) ... and at retail it was still a lot cheaper than the component parts.

Thanks Betty for the vote of confidence! OK so the baseline is different but still a Ducati and still a step up as a whole on what I was riding prior. Yes better brakes, Yes better power, Yes better handling. It is still me that needs to step up my game but I'm getting there.

I do agree that if you add better brakes you'll grow into the power. You can never have too much power ! Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it.....

OK, I tend to totally disagree with pretty much all of the above. My S2R has had the fork oil changed and dropped by 10mm and the rear end simply adjusted up a bit (to counteract my somewhat hefty build) and I have no problem keeping up with most people in the twisties, smooth or bumpy. I've dueled with Loony plenty of times and more recently went head to head with Bevan around Mt Lindsay & Hinze dam in the wet. I also remember a somewhat memorable day doing McPass & Fitzroy Falls.

I think we can under rate our bikes somewhat and believe that in stock form our Ducs are pretty damn good for road use - all of them. I can still remember riding Kawasaki Mach 1's, Suzuki 550's and the like, no brakes, no suspension, cross ply tyres and go like stink - them were scary days.

During my "High Speed Cornering Course" at Eastern Creek I took turn 1 at max warp (around 160Km) on my trusty CX500 and tank slapped my way past half the field, you want poor suspension, give that a go.

Now get out there and ride your bikes. [thumbsup]

I feel your pain having had the same dilemma recently. With more than a little help from these good people my plan form my S2r800 has been all about getting the bike to a better place set-up wise prior to affixing any shiny bits:
Exhaust - Arrows full system
Suspension - Sr21000 Showas up front (resprung for me), Ohlins for the back (again resprung as i am a little heavier than your average Italian motorcyclist)
Brakes - currently embarking on this one as per previous post

I cannot wait to get these 3 locked in as i an a little envious of all the sweet looking bits & pieces.

No under rating of my bike here MonsterDorf it's me who is needing the modifications !
Yes I also agree Get out and Ride them !

or save the cash & spend it on hookers & cocaine - see which form of unfaithfulness is more expensive

Thanks everyone for the imput. Some good stuff here.

I've not ridden a 1000 monster but have ridden a supersport with the same motor. It has more stomp but thats not really what I'm looking for. The suspension felt like the bike was on rails and thats the feeling I'm after. I have to say that the suspension is OK on smooth roads but throw in a few bumps and I'm floundering.

If I upgraded to another bike I'd probably go a few steps up to make the move worthwhile in all areas. More leaning towards upgrading the 800 if I can.

I have been watching the for sale section and Ebay for bits but they seem hard to come by as competition is fierce. Everyone seems to want to upgrade.

I am thinking:
- new brake pads (about due anyway).
- front springs and fork oil change (due anyway).
- better quality rear shock (from S4R or SBK but I'll have to research what fits). Possibly the Ohlins that Cairns Duc fitted to his as the Aus$ still has a good exchange rate.

This is prob going to be a long term thing in the end. Its good to know others have been down this path.

i have a customer who bought a new custom penske shock (direct i think) for an ss based project and it cost him au$600 or so landed from memory.

fork make over will really help, not sure i'd go as far as adj showa because once they're set up you don't need to adjust them.  are tehy showa or marzocchi?  i have showa non adj on my old 600/750 that have been reworked and they're good.  it actually has cut down original springs i think, done based on a spring calc that turned out to be quite accurate when checked.  they're about 0.85.  i was experimenting, and am also an eternal tightarse.

you should be able to do brakes pretty cheap.  there's someone local selling chinese made disc now for very little on ebay, guess that one's a personal preference.  but 749/999 4 pad calipers and 996 snowflake discs should come up fairly cheaply.  even basic steel carrier discs.

i get to ride a few customer s4rs and while they make me smile like a git for quite some time afterwards i'd not want to own one as there's only so many multigear wheelies in suburban areas and general excessive speediness a licence can handle down here.  but they really are so, so nice.  s2r 1000 isn't anything like it really, but it's still faster than the 800.  a nicely tuned 800 is good tho, altho i don't think i'd get too enthusiastic with one engine mod wise - the clutch basket in particular doesn't seem too strong (durable maybe?).  and that atpc clutch is very nice and light.

my 2c

I've gone down two routes:

new spring/oil into adjustable showa
new sr4s ohlins with new springs

the springs are the things for me! at 18-20kg heavier than the 72kg Italian rider it all had to do with less brake dive, the big shiny Ohlins didn't really do much (other than have some radial monoblocs on the front).

depends on the sensations you're getting with the bike...I do now that the rears are not looked upon highly in the shock game, which is why it's almost cost effective to buy the Ohlins rear with custom spring rather than have good people spend hours trying to improve the stock one!

brakes....get the pads! reckon they are a great step up. so it doesn't have to be expensive...I sold my adjustable showa's and brakes (goldline brembo's) for....$1000 I believe! (but that was to a good bloke!)

fark i miss my bike , tecno forget the super bike ive been there and unless your happy at 200 kays there shit in the low speed twisty,s i was far more conferdent on the s2r than the super bike on bumpy roads with the wide bars you had so much more control and when the back end left the black stuff it didnt matter cause if you have more power and better brakes and suspension you will use it all of it and the roads you ride on you will be painting the faring every year just my 2 cent get the street fighter there awsome  [bow_down]

I don't know if you do MD because the next thing you go on to say is how you have modified the suspension on your bike ... and you have also upgraded the brakes and also like we are saying, ability is a big part of the equation. What you are really saying is that you can make changes to the bike without spending huge amounts of cash.

I have no understanding of the older Japanese bikes you have mention but I think that is missing the point a little. If you realise you are struggling (relative to your riding mates) because you have a lesser suspension and braking setup then its reasonable to want to make changes ... that's what you did.

So I don't think anybody is under-rating the S2R800 but we are quick to acknowledge that of all the Monsters it has one of the worst brake and suspension setups stock ... its all relative.

Have you ridden an S2R800 with stock brakes and an S2R800 with stock brakes but better pads?

Where do you notice this 'great step up'?

One of the problems with just doing the trade in for a bigger bike is that you'll only end up with exactly the same bigger bike that everyone else has.  There will also be no way it'll be exactly what you want, so your wallet is likely to be very thin for a goodly time.

If it were me, I'd be more keen just to work with your existing bike, so you end up with something that's uniquely yours.

I changed the pads in my S2R's OEM setup, and I will say it made quite a bit of difference, If I wasn't riding the Gillies
Range all the time I dare say I would have left them as is with the Sintered pads, but with the heavy braking required
on the Gillies and the heat/humidity here in Cairns the black Brembo's would start to fade towards the bottom of the range.

And the Goldline kit for $800? kinda helped I was working for a dealer at the time, and I managed to squeeze a 10% discount
out of NFI also.  ;D

4 pots (goldline) with stock and changed to Ferado. sure, they aren't the 2 pots, but a better brake pad is a great step up! it's affordable, easily found and can really alter the riding experience. not all of us need monobloc Brembos and 330mm rotors....I think it's about achieving a balance and good brake pad selection can help.

springs and pads....for the money can you come up with better performance?