Ducati Monster Forum

So apparently I bought the girls Ducati when I bought my 695.

I did it for all the good, sensible reasons.  Price, good amount of power for a second bike without being wheelie happy.  Nice, compact bike with plenty of potential for fun in twisty corners.

Only problem is that Ducati thought girl meant short-arse. I'm not a short arse - I'm 5'10 tall.

So the 770mm low seat height, that the sales guy was going on about is actually starting to give me the shits.

On the weekend I dug a trolley jack out, unloaded the swingarm, and stuck my head in to see what I could adjust.  Unfortunately the linkage is totally non-adjustable - it's just a length of aluminium with a ball-end either end.

Google (and searching the forum) tells me about lowering links, but nothing to increase the height.

So the questions are:

I hear that other models of Ducati have adjustable linkages.  Could I simply trundle into Northside or Frasers, give them money, and wander out with the part I want from another model of bike?  What bike would that be, specifically?

Failing that, is it possible to use a lowering link to raise the bike, or don't they have that sort of adjustability?

Failing that, does anyone have specs for the linkage, so that I can buy a pair of ball-ends and organise machining of the rod in between...

Two things you can do:

Get an adjustable link (but not from ducati dealers in Oz - they'll rip you a new one)

The second thing is buy an different seat - I remember the 620 and 695 have lower seats as compared to the 800 and 1000 models. Personally, I'm 6'4 and have a sergeant seat, which is not only higher, but also much more comfy.

BTW, the 695 is not a girls bike! It's got the same power as my M800 (and the S2R800) and they are great fun on the road. For compatibility with other models, you are looking at the M620, M800, M1000, but not so much the S2R and S4R bikes.

I've got to go, but I'll post some links tonight (that is unless others don't chime in first)

 
Hi suzyj
Im 5'11" and ride a 695
I have installed an alternate ride height adjuster
OEM is crazy expensive I think from memory around 3 hunge
Got mine from US ebay for 40 but it was a little frozen
took some work to free up,keep in mind that if you lift the rear too much
you will change the geo quickening the steering and potentially dragging your chain on the swingarm. I removed my 14T front sprocket and went back to 15 then uped the rear sprocket before I did this mod and also don't wind out the thread to much or you risk snapping the rod at the thread if you hit a big pot hole.
I was lucky with mine as it was 20 mm longer than stock so I didn't have to wind it out too much
sorry cant remember which Ducati it was sourced from.
Check the main board there is a few threads on it and will give you the max height.
It is worth it as now the rear is tall enough so Il not looking at my knees while stopped at the at the lights ;D

Check em out
measure yours eye to eye
contact one of the sellers with the length
 and your home and hosed
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_kw=Ducati&_kw=ride&_kw=height&_kw=adjuster (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_kw=Ducati&_kw=ride&_kw=height&_kw=adjuster)
Oh and welcome aboard !
See you at the South coast ride?

Stopping kidding yourself [cheeky]

Suzy, you could try and swap some height with some of the others on here ... apparently you can get this sort of thing done in Russia nowadays.

I think the seat option may be a good one ... simple change to make and it might be all you need, it won't mess with the geometry and its more comfy. If you come along on the weekend you would get to see some Sargeants up close and personal.

I am not sure about the 695 but with the 620 you could raise the front as well (without the triple clamps falling off the top of the forks) ... so you may be able to change things at both ends without effecting the handling. But if you are after more agressive steering that won't matter so much.

Yes, terrible problem that you've got there Suzy. Unlike another 695 rider I know rather well.  [roll] ;D  8)

The more weight I lose, the further away from the ground I get. Power to weight ratio is improving though.  [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Kaz.

Definitely change the seat, easiest change. Then you'll probably need a ride height adjuster and drop the forks a bit.
Depending on your weight a stiffer spring in the back could also help you out.

ME ME ME , pick me!!!!!

yep, change the seat, e-bay for the ride height adjuster, but don't push the forks through, with adding rear ride height you're already changing the geometry, making the bike turn in faster, if you go too far you risk tucking the front in turns and causing instability like a high speed weave. Take baby steps when you alter suspension, change it, try it, assess whether it's better or worse then think about changing something else, changing it back or leaving it.

paul.

The basic idea is to compensate the change in geometry from the ride height adjuster.

Lifting the arse reduces the rake angle (and the trail), causing faster turn in and some instability, as Paul  says you won't want to drop the clamps on the forks as that does the same thing and you end up with a double whammy, so sorry, but one does not compensate, but adds to, the other.

if you're talking about the triple clamps being lower all it will do is accentuate what you have done with the rear, making it more front end biased leading to the problems i have described above.
if you mean lifting the front triple clamps up i don't think there's enough fork tube protruding above the top clamp to do it, could be wrong though.

paul.

I meant lowering the fork tubes in the clamps or rising the triple clamps up. The tubes stick out about 1 cm on the 695.

OK I stand corrected, apologies.

oh ok, well 10mm will definitely help, but if suzyj gets an adjustable ride height rod it will be longer by about twice that with the heim joints fully in, remembering it's a rising rate so adjusting the rod by say 5mm will give roughly 15mm? That would mean the std rod in it's shortest configuration is going to raise the rear somewhere around 60mm from where it is now so yeah, i'd DEFINITELY lift the triple clamps to the top of the fork legs.

brad, where are you? what's the "rate" of the rear rising rate link on a 695?????

paul

Thanks everyone for the wonderful suggestions.

I just spent an enjoyable hour or so measuring everything to death.

The linkage I have is about 275mm long (+/- 5mm, as it's a little awkward to measure).
Without my arse on it, the seat is 770mm off the ground.

While I was stuffing around, I measured sag - my (cough) weight with kit provides 45mm sag at the back, and 55mm at the front.  Alas, my forks aren't adjustable, or else I'd wind in some preload to bring the sag at the front down to 40-45mm.  I see some spacers being made for my forks in my future...

I've just bought a linkage from a 748, which is (I'm assured) the right length.  If it isn't, it wasn't terribly expensive.

I can bring the triples up 10mm before running out of fork leg, as well.  My plan is to lift the triples up the 10mm that I can, and dial an extra 6-7mm into the linkage to bring the back up 20mm.  If I then add 10mm of spacers under the fork caps, that'll improve my sag on the front and the suspension geometry will be unchanged, with my bum 20mm further from the ground.

Then I can look at cushy seats.

:)

A stock S2R isn't just cushy, it also opens up the angle of your hip. It's 2cm higher. Personally I don't feel the difference when stopped at a red light, but rather during riding. It improves ergonomics and handling (because the COG of your body is raised)

Suzyj, 20mm will make quite a difference, if you dont have the spacers for the front (and me not knowing the ID of your forks) an old trick was to use twenty cent coins to help preload the front, might cost you a whole dollar to do this.





                               Mmick

What a great idea.  That way I can try different amounts of preload without going the whole 10mm at once.  Thanks for that :)

OK, OK....A dollar twenty then (thought I'd fix this before you lot get stuck into me)  ;D







                                 Mmick

It appears no amount of spare change will work.

I pulled the top off one of my fork legs tonight, to have a look.  There's a shaft up the middle of the spring that is threaded into the bottom of the cap, with a lock-nut, that holds the spring in compression against the underside of the cap.

If I were to put a spacer in, it would have to be tubular, and go in before the spring, so that I can still get a spanner on to the lock nut.  For reference the spring OD is 39mm.

Or else I could just put stiffer springs in, though I have no idea how stiff the stock springs are.

Actually I just had an idea of how to measure the stock spring stiffness.  I could simply measure the sag caused by a known weight on the bars - that'd give me a direct mm/n measurement...

 

I seem to recall people talking about electrical conduit being suitable for spacing (with suitable washers top and bottom).
Just cut to to length. Easy and cheap..

With the application of suitable amounts of cash to the problem, it's possible to replace all the guts of my forks with an adjustable version:

http://www.matrisusa.com/Products/776-f05-s-for-ducati-monster-695.aspx (http://www.matrisusa.com/Products/776-f05-s-for-ducati-monster-695.aspx)

God I wish I hadn't found that.

Ask Betty about this - he's done it on his bike - nice, but an expensive option..

My M800 suffers the same issues of the shitty forks - I'm about to put 999 forks on it, which is not for the feint hearted..

- buy the forks
- bore the top triple, shim, the lower
- drill the axle so you can get to the adjusters at the bottom
- space the rotors
- replace the handlebars with clip ons, cause the sbk forks are longer
- new front fender, as they use different mounts on the 999
- re spring, seal and oil, set up

What have I missed?

Seriously, the easy path is get some M1000 / S2R1000 or even better S4R / S4Rs forks from the US....

Shit mate, this is were you call up the services of your friendly machine shop or that retired bloke down the road who still dabbles in that sort of thing 'cos he enjoys doing it.






                     Mmick

been there. enlisted some help.

actually it's been an adventure researching it all and then working to a tight-arse budget on it.

managed to get most of it for really good prices.

only problem is, I then start to think about other upgrades "just while I'm at it"....

Does Nemo know you are messing with his bike like this? [cheeky]

There are many and varied options, it just depends on how deep you want to get yourself. I am sure if this was being discussed elsewhere on the board we would have been inundated with 'GSXR fork swap' posts by now ;D

No, but he'll appreciate it, I'm sure. By all accounts he'll be as tall as me by the time he's able to ride it, so I think he;ll appreciate the forks, the sargent seat and the cycle cat adjustable rearsets  [moto]

OK, sit down, take a few deep breaths and have a good think about where this is heading.

We have just been having a similar discussion about Techno's situation: http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=36749.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=36749.0)

So first things first ... how wedded to this bike are you, what do you think you will want at the end of the day, how much do you like fiddlin' with stuff and how much money are ya gunna spend?

The reason I am bringing this up?

Well you have already talked about changing the ride height, now adjustable forks ... then it might be brakes or more power (presumptuous I know). At the end of the day you might be sitting back and thinking I could have just got a bike with a better stock setup and then tweaked it for less cash.


Yes I have the Matris kit on my bike (not sure if it is exactly the same) and yes it is expensive (bought mine from PJs Parts last year for less than that). The system is still a bit of a compromise (you still use your stock forks) but it does give you adjustability and the springs set to your weight.

I had mine installed by a suspension guru so they have been set and forget so far. There was an issue with the cap not fitting properly but that may have been my fork tubes (we'll never know).

If you are happy to shop around, second hand adjustable forks with springs set for you, could still be cheaper. But if you are primarily worried about preload then just change the springs and play with the oil ... it will probably get you most of the way there.

This is another option if you just want preload adjustment (I don't think it offers adjustment for compression or rebound damping):
http://www.carpimoto.com/EN/Bike_Ducati_Monster-695/Brand_Bitubo/Suspensions-Wheels/34513_D0022ABB09-Bitubo-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-Ducati-Monster-620.htm (http://www.carpimoto.com/EN/Bike_Ducati_Monster-695/Brand_Bitubo/Suspensions-Wheels/34513_D0022ABB09-Bitubo-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-Ducati-Monster-620.htm)

So you have plenty of options ... it just depends on what you want.

It's all cool.  I bought the bike as a project, not so much as a finished product.  I get nearly as much enjoyment from obsessing about this stuff as I do from the riding.

I've got a list of things to do to the bike, starting with raising the rear and adding some preload to the forks (I'll probably just con a mate into machining spacers for now, but will keep the new cartridges in mind for the future).  Then there's lovely rizoma clip-ons, etc etc.

The plan is for the bike to improve in capability as my skills improve.  Or at least, that's the plan...

You should love this place then.

That reminds me that we once were going to set up regular-ish visits to Dock's workshop to have maintenance days.

I'll ask him (or he'll read this) to see if that is viable still.

Goldfish, I love your avatar.  It looks just like the logo on my bicycle.

(http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/audax_ii_pics/painted_headbadge.jpg)

Thanks! My wife (aka the Bronster or Broni) made it and coined the forum name....

There's a story behind the name, but maybe I'll tell you that one when we meet up.
It's (now) an old story tied up with this very group, on the old DML forum where we began...

My ebay linkage showed up in the post today, so I dove in and fitted it.

The procedure I used is as follows:

Find someone with a 748 and get them really, really drunk. Once they've passed out, steal their suspension linkage.  Failing that, just buy one off ebay.

Support the rear end of the bike so the rear tyre is barely touching the ground.  I used chassis stands under the rear sets.  Remove the seat and tank.  That gives you access to the top of the linkage.

Undo the bolt (8mm allen key) through the top of the linkage from the left side.  It's really tight.  Climb under the right side, and using a really long 8mm allen key (I used a T-handle one with an 8mm ring spanner on it for leverage) to undo the bolt through the bottom of the linkage.  There's a handy hole in the frame at just the right spot.  With the bolts out, you can remove the stock linkage.  Remove and keep the aluminium bushings.

Now prep the replacement so it's approximately one tad longer than the stock one.  It's surprisingly fiddly to get just the right length while keeping the end bits at the same angle.  I made mine about 5mm longer than the stock one, which lifts the back about 15mm.  There's a locknut on each end, and the end bits thread into the shaft.  I found they were a bit rusty, and very hard to loosen.  WD40 and patience persevered though.  Once I freed them I liberally coated the threads with grease to ensure they don't bind again.  Oh, one end is right-hand threaded, and the other is left-hand threaded.

Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly, with a bit of grease on each pivot.  Make sure the bolts through each end of the linkage are properly torqued.

Finally, adjust the chain, 'cos it gets a little loose.

Yay.  Now my front is up 10mm (by dropping the forks through the triples) and the back is up 15mm, so the seat height is much more reasonable.  I'm still flat-footed, but it's a much better fit.

Don't you love it when a woman talks mechanics so eloquently! :o

Well done Suzy very impressive! [thumbsup]

Rob

+1.

Awesome job on the write up.

Now all you need is the sargent seat  [evil]

Just bought a set of 998 forks, so that's the first item ticked off already.  Nothing like diving in the deep end :)

Hey, at least I get to keep my stock fender.  That's another item ticked off - I feel like I'm almost there!

Here's what I did for clipons (with rise)

http://www.apexmfg.com/riser.htm (http://www.apexmfg.com/riser.htm)

Now, lets talk about some goldline calipers and some 320mm rotors!!

Do you have definitive numbers for the extra length of the superbike forks?  If they're more than 20mm longer than the stock ones, then I can put my clipons on top of the triple, and use ones with no rise.

Don't 320mm disks need radial calipers and all that stuff?

Most of the pre-2005 (I think) girls bikes had 320mm rotors, so not radial calipers ... but you would need something like the goldlines (which were also standard on the older or bigger bikes)

Oooh, there's a FAQ entry about just this...

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14127.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14127.0)

 [coffee]

Interestingly, this post:  http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=77988 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=77988) mentions machining 4mm off the mounting side of goldlines to get the offset right for an upgrade from 2 pots to goldlines (admittedly for a sport classic, not a monster).  I can't help but wonder if a goldline/320mm rotor upgrade would mean I could do away with spacing the rotors...

Preamble: I haven't looked at your links.

I believe the issue with the Sports Classics is the spoked wheels. Shouldn't be a problem with the Monsters. It should just be a matter of losing the additional brackets from the 2 piston calipers, the offset in the 320mm rotors will make up the difference.

Your brake lines may need to be changed though ... but if you change master cylinders at the same time ... you know where this is heading right?

Yeah, a long way into the future.  A very, very long way.  For the coming months I have a lovely 999 monoshock sitting on my desk, all lovingly cleaned and waiting on a new spring and breather kit to mount, next to a cardboard template for the new regulator/coil mount that I'll make once the breather arrives.  Then of course there's the set of 998 forks winging their way from Adelaide, which in turn will be lovingly cleaned and resprung, and triples will be bored, and clipons purchased, coffins and rotors spaced, etc etc etc.

Once that's done and they're on the bike, then I'll think what to do next.  The brakes look tantalizingly easy.

Oh, and thus far none of it counts as bling.  I've used the "but honey, I'm making my bike handle better, so it's safer to ride" argument to justify all of it so far.  That argument will work well for brakes, too :)

With regard to fork swap AND brake upgrade you will have to find someone that knows what they are talking about ... I'm out.

Hey Suzy looking good on the ugrade to the front. [thumbsup]


How is the diameter of the forks compared to the stockers where the tripple clamps fit?

Rob

Happy happy joy joy.

My lovely new (to me) 998 Showa forks were sitting on the doorstep when I arrived home this evening.

They're so wonderfully gold.  Mmmm...  Shiny...  8)

Looks like the seals are perfect, and the titanium nitride legs are bright and smooth and blemish free.  They go in and out like forks should.  They've had the top taken off at some point, so they might have different springs to stock - I'll open them up later and have a peek.

For reference, in case anyone's reading this, they measure 718mm unloaded from middle of axle to top of tube.  The same measurement (also unloaded) on my stock Marzocchi forks is just 695mm.  Once it's all put together I'll have an extra 23mm of fork tube poking out the top of my triple, plus the extra length of the preload etc adjusters.

That measurement is important, as it means I'm able to use clip-ons with no rise and mount them above the triple, for a relatively relaxed bar position.  It also means there's absolutely no way my stock bars are going to fit.

According to my verniers, the tube is 52.9mm diameter at the spot where both triples mount, as expected.

Now to choose some nice clip-ons (not this fortnight though, or even next, as I already blew my bike money on a booking for superbike school).

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1191/4606114248_73a6d6b2ba.jpg)

Following up on this.

My 998 forks, with shiny new springs and oil, are still waiting to go on the bike.  I still need to get clipons, space my masters, get adjustable levers, and bore my upper triple before they'll go on the bike.  At the rate I work (and given that I have a limited budget for bike toys, and given that that budget is going towards new tyres before my superbike school date in September) it'll be a goodly number of months (ie after superbike school) before I have my 998 front end on my monster.

Having gotten the rear end up to speed, I'm now painfully aware of how bad the front is.  It dives when I get on the brakes, and there's gobs too much sag, at 55mm (nearly half the suspension travel).

So young monstermick's suggestion of using 20c pieces as spacers came to me again.  I pulled my forks out and partially disassembled one.  Inside is a spring, plus a plastic tube that spaces it out.  I wandered down to the hardware store in search of a similar diameter/thickness tube that I could cut as a longer spacer to improve my sag.

I bought some PVC pipe, that was okay but a tad on the skimpy side.  What I did find that was just the ticket is 5/8" zinc plated washers.  These things are the same OD as the spring, 16mm ID (so they slip over the damper rod with plenty of space to spare), and 3.3mm thick.

I ended up not bothering with the PVC, but instead just putting a stack of five washers (~17.5mm) between the existing spacer tube and the spring.  I reassembled the forks with 10wt oil (filling to 104mm from the top w/o spring and spacers, fwiw), then put the whole assembly back on the bike.

It's a definite improve.  The loaded sag is now 35mm (I know the math doesn't add up - I think it's to do with the progressive spring).  The spring rate is still all wrong (and progressive).  Certainly it'll do for the next few months while I patiently gather the remaining bits for the sbk conversion.

If anyone wants some washers, I've got half a dozen left over.

Geeze, I've not been called that for......................................

.....................ages   ;D



                              Mmick