Ducati Monster Forum

Got an e-mail today from a bloke asking about my ST4 that I have for sale, he wanted to know what the absolute minimum price was and the condition of the bike.
I have replyed, and yes later today, I got a reply saying that he will buy the bike but he will send a courier to pick the bike up, cos he's a busy man and he wants the money transaction to be done by PayPal, oh, he has this phone number and postcode which is (and I dont mind showing this) 0440290001 p/c 3233 which as far as I know is Apollo Bay area, somefin dont smell right.





                               Mmick

Yes Mmick it's a scam.
bikepoint and bikesales are getting scammed bigtime.
Repeat yes it's a SCAM...

Definitely a scam. When ever they say it has to be picked up by courier and payment must be done through paypal. Next he will ask you transfer money probably through western united to pay for the courier because he is overseas and in return he will add that sum to the paypal amount plus a bit extra. I string them along just to piss them off  ;D

No Mick it's all good, I'll send you my number you pay the courier and send me the bike & I'll send you a postage stamp.

Sounds fair to me.  [clap]

I'll PM you the details, this way I can help you make room in the shed as I'm a nice bloke !  [thumbsup]

NNickati  ;D

Nickati, don't give up your day job!  [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] :P

Actually since I'm such a nice bloke and love to help out I'll extend this offer to all forum members.

Just to help out of course  ;D

So do we string this bloke along for a while or do we (I) set up a sting or do I get the cops (federal) involved or what do you enlightened people think, OK Nickati sold to the bloke with the postage stamp providing of course you have $11,000 for me.




                        Mmick

yeah string him along for a while.
how many email address do you use?
keep sending him emails from different addresses and keep changing the price and where he can collect it from.

$11k from Picton
$13k from Bowral
$18k from Mosman
$21k from Vaucluse
$29k from Liverpool (england)

infact give him a few of our email addresses and say that you are not handling the sale your friend
Matty is so there is a fee to be paid to him for handling the collection.
Then pass it to Goldfish for a higher fee
And so until he just stops talking to you.  [laugh] [laugh]
Could be fun.

I guess I'm a wacker, but I thought payment was verified by paypal...

If I was buying a bike from interstate I'd consider a courier...

Guess I'm a dill...

Ita

Sounds like a bit of fun....

But what if this is genuine?

Is there a way of checking this out, I tried to find out if his mobile number is fair dinkum but no luck.




                                           Mmick

As far as I'm concerned if you get a paypal transaction it's secure...

Ita

OK, if it is good is there any way that they can cancel the payment, because my way of looking at it is that I will have the money in my hand before the bike leaves my shed.







                          Mmick

Well mate I have never had an issue, but looking on their wesite it would appear all the protection is for the buyer...   That would make me think if you are an honest seller you are safe...

Ita

Smells bad
I would not part with anything without cash in my hand.
Would you spend that much on something you have never touched?
DONT TRUST HIM.

It works like this.....

I'll buy your ST4 off you using PayPal for $14Gs.....

I transfer $14Gs to your PayPal account (It shows in your PayPal account).....

I will have the courier at your place within the hour of the transaction showing on PayPal....

I pick up your ST4 and disappear into the wild blue yonder......

PayPal then inform you within 48 hours that the transaction has failed due to the buyers credit card being rejected.....

You loose you ST4 and the cash....

When a PayPal transaction shows on your account it goes through various stages....
It may show "Pending" or "Being Processed" and the money isn't yours till the transaction is approved and you have transferred the cash to your bank account and it is approved by your bank....

Had a friend of a friend loose a MTB bike by this scam.....

Scam, scam, scam....

the funds are usually deposited the morning of the pick up so they cannot clear....and if you're out on an oil rig or 'so busy' why do you want a motorbike anyway?

Just to add to that even if the money "clears" from Paypal the buyer can cancel the transaction afterwards stating "goods not as described" etc.  This means Paypal puts a halt on the money until the dispute is settled.  Even if you transfer the money to a bank account Paypal will pursue you to get the funds back.  In the meantime your bike has been sold or moved again and the scammer benefits entirely leaving you out of pocket.

dont do it - demand cold hard cash in your hand!  ;D

As I said in the first place Mmick.

SCAMMER.

Take Trev's advice, he had it several times while selling the Monster.
This person is not a buyer at all. 

I too smell a scam. [evil] [evil]

nothing beats cold hard cash! or funds securely in your back account. [thumbsup]

Wow...  I guess I've been very very naive   :-[

I honestly thought Paypal was a safe secure and guaranteed transaction... :(   I will think twice in the future...

Ita

Scam for sure. I was getting a couple a week when we sold one of our cars. Exactly the same deal. Emails from people on oceanography vessels who needed a car for their sick aunt or some crap.

They don't actually steal your bike/car though (this is where the pricks are as cunning as shithouse rats). They agree on a price for the vehicle, say $20000. They say that they will pay $22500 into the account to cover shipping. They then make it appear that Paypal is holding the payment in escrow and claim that they need you to wire the extra cash they sent to the shipping agent via a western union account. You forward the 2500 to the shipper from your pocket, thinking you will get it when the paypal transaction clears. Then they disappear and the Paypal transaction gets canceled. Bzzzt you are 2500 out of pocket.

The perps* are always offshore and virtually impossible to track.  

This used to be on scamwatch.gov.au (http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/), but it seems to have disappeared. Just google "scam + paypal + oceanographer". Bingo, first 10 gagillion results listed.


* haha I said "perps", I've been watching "World's best police chases" too much

Paypal is pretty much the safest way to do transactions on the internet, dont get 'em wrong, Paypal have IMHO the best consumer protection of any escrow service on the internet. But you need to understand exactly what state the cash is sitting in before you fork out money from your own pocket assuming that the money in paypal is going to go through.

It the same deal as bank cheques, I always thought they were as good as cash, but people get a bankcheque for X thousand dollars, go back into the bank, cancel it saying they lost it, give it to you to buy your X thousand dollar bike, take the bike, you go to the bank, thinking the cheque is good and BZZZT it's been canceled. No bike, no cash,

Ita don't be worried about using PayPal. For 99% of transactions it is safe and straight forward.
These scammers are running there operations via car/bike sales because most people selling a 2nd bike/car
might never have used PayPal and just get sucked in.

Think of Aunty Joyce in Back-of-Nowhere Town who gets directed to PayPal to sell her Nephews car who is traveling OS
and needs the $$$. She doesn't know what to do and takes the buyers lead and gets done a few G's for her lack of knowledge.

Thanks fella's for all your worldly wisdom.

Me thinks the best way would be for "The Courier" to bring in the cash when (if) he picks the bike up, that way no probs bob.





                                   Mmick

Another tip for you Mmick. Don't let anyone come and see the bike at it's storage address. Bikes get knocked off in the middle of the night. These people make a career out of ripping people off. If someone wants to view the bike, make it a public place and take a mate with you. If they want a test ride, they have to pay a deposit in cash (for full cost of the bike).
Paranoid, maybe. Secure, you betcha!!!!  [thumbsup]

Yeah, copy that Signora, in fact I need to hold their wallet AND the cash.






                                      Mmick

When I bought my S2R, the seller and myself went down to the bank together,we told the teller what we were doing and the teller showed the money going from my account to the seller's account, then he handed me the key, happiness all round.

off subject I know but Paypal is excellent for buyers and scammers - not so for sellers as you have to follow every one of their terms and conditions to the very letter to get 'seller protection'.

If, on the extremely small chance this _is_ genuine, the buyer will very easily understand your fears of getting ripped off with the classic paypay scam - just mail/call/text them saying "You know how scammy your proposal sounds? I'd love to sell you the bike, but I'm not going to let anyone rip me off." They'll either vanish, make obviously desperate scammy excuses/explanations, or agree that their proposal is stupid and offer to show up with the cash before taking delivery of the bike.

But yeah, you're being scammed...

big

Paypal does not protect you, you will lose the bike and the Money.

These guys pay with stolen Credit Cards, Stolen bank account details and 2 to 3 months later the Police come knocking at your door
asking for the money back, and yes they can do whatever is needed to get it back. (Property Seizure, Etc)

I thought the same until I spent a number of hours searching for info on this sort of thing and there are hundreds of Horror stories
Where people have trusted the Paypal protection systems, but if the Money comes from a illegitimate source EG: Stolen funds Etc.
they suddenly wash there hands of it and the protection won't help you.

I put on my Bikesales advert 1 simple line: NO PAYPAL! CASH OR BANK CHEQUE ONLY (subject to clearance)

They still tried, I was getting up to 5 to 7 emails a day wanting courier pickup and PayPal for Payment, but I simply replied with a one line Email:
Please Reread the Advert, NO PAYPAL! Cash, Bank Cheque or you can make the beast with two backs off!

DO NOT TRUST PAYPAL!

Spend some time on this Website, the Stories are incredible
http://www.paypalwarning.com/home (http://www.paypalwarning.com/home)

Agree. I never give out my home address.

Also thumbs up on needing the full amount in cash. I have heard stories where a guy will give say $2k deposit on bike for the test ride and they never come back. Cheap track bike/rebirth for $2k..... Had a bloke try this one on me, he said ok i'll buy it and come over tomorrow with the deposit and do a test ride. I spoke to him the next day and said make sure you bring that deposit for the full amount. He was pissed and said he'll have to think about it. Never heard back. Dodgy pricks!

The other paranoia i have is guys sitting on the bike. The bike starts up. They have a sit..... why not just kick it into 1st and off ya go? I mean, you are going to steal it anway, why bother with a helmet? I would suggest putting a wheel lock on and then they aren't going anywhere.

I'm just talking to a mate who is trying to sell his F800ST.

Buyer wants to use paypal, saying he is in Victoria, too busy to look at it.

The buyers name is Luke Fisher. He tried to ring the mobile number, call block was activated.


Scammer again?

I'd say it's got a smell about it.

Duck Fat, tell him to run, run as fast as he can away from the guy.

Scammer!!

no one in there right mind will buy a bike unseen and unchecked.
And anyone offering to purchase via Paypal sight unseen is also dodgy.
I got scammers from overseas, locally, and from all over Australia.

I just tell them Cash or Bank Cheque and allow time for the Cheque
to clear. If not, NO DEAL!

I agree with all the PAYPAl info here. I myself bought a paddock stand off an online shop in Oz using paypal. It turned up as promised and all was good. More than a 2 months later paypal returned the funds to my account due to an "issue" with the sellers account setup. I made 1st contact with the seller and EFT the funds direct to their bank account straight away cos I'm honest, but I could have walked away with a free stand.

Anyhow on another note, I recently sold my 620 Monster via Trading Post. I got loads of scammers trying similar lines. But as soon as I stated in the add that I would not reply to scammers they immediately stopped. However honest people do buy bikes, cars etc site unseen. I sold my bike from Tassie to a bloke in melb. He transferred the funds into my bank account and as part of the deal, I organised transport to melb for it. I got what I wanted for the bike and he rang me to tell me it was just what he wanted looked even better in the flesh. So it does happen.  Just remember no one will buy your bike without first phoning you and speaking to you about it first [beer]

I sold my bike to a guy in Melbourne (I'm in Cairns) he sent me a Bank Cheque, we set up a 3rd party we were both happy with to hold the bike until the Cheque cleared
and they could confirm that yes the bike was there and legit, I held onto the keys and the second the Cheque cleared I delivered the keys/Documents to him via an airbag.

He was protected, I was protected.

Here is the emails that were sent:

The following Used Bike Lead was generated by BikePoint Australia
   
    Date: 25-May-2010 17:39:04
     
    Make: BMW
      Model: F800ST
      Year: 2007
      Colour: BLUE
      Price:  12500.00
     
  PROSPECT DETAILS
    Name:  Luke Fisher
     
    Postcode: 3000
     
    Mobile Phone: 0404443211
      Email: lukfishe01203@yahoo.com
     
      TRADE-IN DETAILS:
   
   
   
      Comments:
       Hi mate is the bike still available for sale? if yes what is the condition and your lowest price?

------------------------------------------------------

The bike is still for sale, it is in good condition, the previous owner dropped it of the side stand and it has a few small marks on the left side fairing but you would only notice them if they where pointed out or you really looked hard. I was hoping for around 12 which seems a good price based on what I have seen. Hope this helps.

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ok no problem i will be paying you $12,000 with my PayPal account because it's
attached to my bank account and its safe and very secure way to make
payment. If my mode of payment is accepted just send me your paypal
email address,(Paypal ID) or send me paypal payment request so i can pay in right away. Make sure you get back to me so that i can make the payment. I have a private courier agent that will handle the shipping after payments has been made, so no shipping included.
And if you dont have a paypal account, you can easily go to
www.paypal.com.au (http://) and sign up. its very easy. i will call you later
I await your reply asap.

Due to the nature of my job and my location i will not be able to come for inspection am a very busy type as i work long hours everyday,i don't really think i need to come for a look, because i have gone through your advertisement and i am satisfied with it so i will call you when  am chanced from work but as of now we can be chatting online or sending emails.
And can you  please confirm to me again that the item is very good with no fault?
 
----------------------------------------------------------

Can you call me 02 -------- I tried to contact you but you have call restrictions on your phone. The bike is well serviced and in great condition with no faults.
Look forward to hearing form you.

----------------------------------------------------------

ok i will call you tomorrow but pending the time i will call, you can send me your paypal email address so that i can make the payment into your account.

Thanks and waiting for your response

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I would love to sell you the bike but I really want $12001.76c. Is that OK?

-----------------------------------------------------------

its ok with me no problem

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And I want a carton of beer and a pet fish. Is that OK 2?

-----------------------------------------------------------

yes its ok by me you crazy idiot


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It has to be a Gold fish in a round bowl. What do you reckon, have you had enough yet? Thanks for wasting my time but at least YOU MADE ME LAUGH.


<end>


F*CKERS.

 >:(

I vote we sign him up for stuff

I concur.....hmmm.  [evil]

I wanna know how I got mixed up in all of this..... sure I don't mind streching the truth in aid of a good story, but.......  [laugh]

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] I got the same response as you from the same place with my ST4 (except the goldfish bit, sorry Goldie) its got to be the same nob er.. mob word for word about paypal set up being busy, the lot.  [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]





                              Mmick

Goldie, it's because of all the BMW riding gear you have!  [moto]

what can I say, fan of the gear, not of the bikes! (maybe except the new SBK)