Ducati Monster Forum

Hi

So I'm super new to this site and I was wondering what people thought of Stoner?  I've previously seen people (on another site) pretty polarised - some love him, some hate him.

But given he's riding a Ducati are peeps here a little more supportive?

Sam

Yeah I don't mind him as a rider, he's very fast and usually always competitive.
But as some here might agree he just lacks character. Rossi he is not.

I like him. He is an Aussie *and* on a Ducati. But to be honest I can't dislike anyone in motogp (Well, since Biaggi left anyway). They all have massive stones and skill.   

Casey gets a serve from some English commentators. It's just because they are upset that Toseland was crap in MotoGP and they hate being beaten by convicts. [laugh]

He is in the running for winning Qatar for the fourth year running. Toby Moody seems to think he's in top form (http://in top form). I'm just stoked there is bike racing on again. I reckon watch out for Ben Spies this year

I have to admit - I'm a bit of a compulsive fan of Stoner.  I think he's probably handled the media a bit poorly, but I think that is probably due to his age more than anything.  He's certainly doesn't have the ability to manipulate the media the way that Rossi does (he is definitely the master at this - have you ever noticed that when the media ask him a question he never actually answers it - he just says whatever he wants to and the media think he is a god!!) but Stoner can definitely tame the beast that others haven't!

And damn it - I like Hayden, but he just doesn't seem to make the most of the Duc the way that Stoner does.

Really looking forward to the first round - and my fiance and I are going to Sepang as part of our honeymoon, so really, really looking forward to that  ;D

I've heard its one of those self perpetuating things ... they bag him, he doesn't talk to them, they bag him some more, etc.


There's nothing wrong with a lack of character. But c'mon the kid still looks like he's 13.


Umm, yeah you've seen his groupie wife right.


Some of you know I don't follow the racing at all but I know Casey has copped some criticism as not being a 'proper rider' becasue he exploits the electronic aides available to him. Interesting that no other bastard has been able to match him on that bike.

Now for the conspiracy theory ... Rossi won't ride the Ducati because he may not be able to tame it.

Edit: Girly has now said most of this while I was typing

Have to agree with you, I do like Hayden and always have cause he just enjoys it.
There's not often a tanty or excuses from him, not in my memory anyway.
He just rides and has a blast and if he wins well great, not that he or any rider likes to loose.

I think I saw some fluff on Casey's chin last year.  [cheeky] [cheeky].
Can't say it was much more than the growth I manage as people would know from our Movmeber days last year.

I'll buy into that Betty, but I think it is more of an Italian thing.
Italians rarely ride/drive their Countries Marque. And when they do it either doesn't go well or the media
crucify the rider/driver if they don't do a good job.

Well it's pretty well all been covered from where I sit.
I agree on the Media situation 100%, it will come with age.
Love Rossi
Love Stoner
Love an Aussie at the top of their game & representing our country well
Also agree watch out for Ben Spies & I also like Jorge !
Bring on the racing

Yeah, all I can say is that Rossi does it for me! Sorry Nickati, you come a close second.  [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Just kidding.  [evil]

I like Stoner probably more cause he's an Aussie and on a Duc than anything else.

I think he's a gifted rider, but what does erk me is what I perceive is his "media attitude"

Lets face it, he's a professional sportsperson in a world level championship, and with that comes a couple of things, namely being good enough at your sport to be there, but also having to do what you are contracted to for media / fan / sponsor relations. You can't have one without the other, and his apparent disregard for his off track duties does him no favours with a lot of potential fans.. And it's an easy fix - hire good PR people and do what they say..

Getting that out of the way, I'd like to focus on what he does on the track. He's bullshit fast, and has been able to get the Duc to do what alot of other talented riders have not, but I think Rossi (and others) have his measure from a racecraft perspective. if he gets out in front, and has the setup and pace to stay there, he's unbeatable, but get him into a scrap and others can take him - he's kinda like Pedrosa in that way...

Rossi has the package - he may very well be a real contender for the title of GOAT based purely on his on-track achievements, but he also has the charisma and the realisation that this is his profession, and media / sponsor / fan relations are all part of the job. Back to the track again, Rossi has the development ability, the pace, the racecraft, the experience, and the hunger to be the dominant persona he is. He's a tough competitor in anyones language, and his results speak for themselves.

I'd agree with The Ben (as Haga's son calls Spies) being a contender - perhaps not this year, but who knows. He's got a lot of the ingredients, and he's on a well developed and sorted ride.
 
Jorge is a real contender this year, me thinks - he lacks the level of experience of Rossi, but has a lot of commonality with him

Pedrosa I can't see having the package to take it all the way, I could be wrong.. The Honda's never delivered in the 800 class in my opinion, so that's not gonna help him.

I'd like to see Simoncelli up there, but not this year. He's on a Honda, and a satellite one at that (as all rookies need to). Maybe when he gets a factory ride, it'll be good to see him dueling with Rossi.

Of course, all of this is one persons opinion. Regardless whether you agree with all / some / none of the above, I'm sure we'll all agree that its gonna make for an interesting season, and perhaps an even more interesting one next year with all top riders contracts up and back to the litre bikes..

Bring it on! Can't wait for the season to start!

On a serious note though, I think anyone on "The Grid" is pure talent. Good luck to all of them I say!

oh, and for you racing fans, come join our fantasy riders league - you're a few rounds down, but it's not too late!

yeah you might even get past me on the leader board! [laugh] [laugh]

Before Stoner there was Doohan, Beattie, Gardner... if you ask me all talented aussies who beat the world in one way or another! I don't care how they handle the media. In the end results count. If you weren't getting results and handled the media well are you a good rider or just a good sports pro? pfff...

It's a yang and yang thing - to be a "pro" means that you make your living of it. I'm just saying that in this day and ago, to be the world elite in any professional sport, I'd argue that you need the complete package. Whether we like it or not, sport needs money, therefore they need sponsors, and sponsors need fans to buy their wares.

I'm not saying that this is a good thing, in fact, its more than a little sad, but it is what it is..

For those that haven't seen Stoner come out of Siberia, full noise, bike trying to flip him off you dont know what you're missing.  I love watching the other riders trying to follow his line out of there, and they nearly chuck themselves off - but not Stoner.  He keeps going till he gets that corner nailed (like the rest of the circuit) and when he does it is poetry in motion!  Stoner has the riding skills and I reckon he is on the money this year to be a serious challenger.

I met Hayden at Phillip Island on a Thursday night in the Subway at Cowes of all places the first year he was on the Ducati - wasn't very welcoming - and no I didn't give him any bullshit, simply said "hi Nicky, good luck". Meh maybe it was a result of a shite season in a class he just cant come to grips with.  Nicky on big bore stuff - yeah he was good - but since moving to the smaller "800" class he just cant ride like the 250 riders.  I think after this year Nicky should go to superbikes or maybe Supermotard or something......

Pedrosa - back marker again in the top 5 - he's my version of Criville to Doohan - always there as a pain but really not putting in a serious challenge.  Unfortunately there are too many other class riders to take the championship. Pedrosa had his window.

Jorge - the guy is fun!  Very fast and I think youthful exuberance has been replaced after some very spectacular and painful crashes.  Someone may correct me but I think he has the record for highest and longest high side??  Note: Glen Richards after recently wasn't too bad either - for those don't know South Aussie rider in the British Superstock class.

Rossi - what can you say? He's the package, but only with the mastermind Burgess behind him.  Burgess is the only person that I know that can polish a turd.  Look at the M1 in the first season Rossi went over.  I am not taking anything away from Rossi's astronomical riding talent, but you have to admit Burgess has also worked miracles.  Oh and he is another person from SA  ;D (For those who don't know Stoner's wife comes from Adelaide too - seen her at Mallala - local goat track - and DAMN!)

Now for the other random factors;

Melandri - absolute random factor when it comes to racing but highly entertaining in the wet.  Awesome to watch powers slide out of turns 11 and 12 on the Island.

Simoncelli - The young upstart?? I think he will start out like Jorge - lots of bravado and speed, but may end up binning it big time, which may bring him down to earth.  If he gets on a factory bike he could be the one to watch.

Side note Westy in Moto2.  Good to see another Aussie back!

I will take the same disclaimer as GoldFish - this is one persons opinion - mine.  Regardless whether you agree/disagree (and that what makes life interesting) this is going to be a great season again with highs and lows.  Go Casey!!  [moto]

It's just not the same without Ruben Xaus!

I mean watching a bunch of horse jockeys ride is fun, but every room needs a tall handsome lovable bloke!

Jorge is cool, like the fact he so into destroying his teammate....and just so bloody fast! think experience will prove him to be a contender!

unfortunately Ducati weren't allowed to run a Desmosedici Hypermotard!   [laugh]

hey girly...  (sounds like I'm ordering a drink at the bar! :) )
I'll be at Sepang this year as well. I'd like to get a rossi and stoner tee shirt, cut em in half and sew em together
Stoner because he's aussie and rides a ducati, rossi because he's cool, and we share the same surname.

I think you can still be among the elite without the 'complete package' it just means you don't earn as much. Would Ducati be in a better position if they had two lesser riders that could 'play' the media. It reminds me of reading about some Asian drivers bringing big money for a seat in Formula 1 only to be laps off the pace. I think everybody would have a different definition of what 'the complete package' is ... there must always be a balance (or come from SA ;)).

I think people expect too much sometimes (and not enough at others). Casey left Australia at a young age (professionally) to be a racer ... in a foreign, non-English speaking country and trying to get a foothold. First he needed to prove himself on the track (over the years) ... not take eloquence and PR lessons. This may have counted against him later as he was always the outsider and may have fostered an uneasiness with the media which belies a shy personality.

He doesn't seem arrogant or rude just rather uncomfortable during interiew. The kid is there to ride so let him ride ... its not like he will be making a career fronting the race day coverage.

I think with any sport you have similar situations. Doesn't matter how good you are at your chosen sport or how polished you are in the media if you are a drug using, gang-raping rugby league player for example or if your partner is a media grabbing nutcase. In my opinion Casey has his priorities right ... but maybe he has a mistress in every port - I don't know.

Football (soccer) I think would throw up the most examples of something always missing from the complete package ... I vomit a little every time I see Cristiano Ronaldo advertising Castrol oil. Roger Federer is probably as good an example of the 'complete package' you could find but he is fluent in several language and probably had a long time to build his 'media persona' before he hit his peak. Yet he may just be the last of the 'Gillette boys' to fall.

Geez, I think I need some sleep. Sorry everyone.

I disagree with the 2nd half of this statement (to an extent)

I can't recall which race it was, it was a Euro race, and the scrap he had with Rossi blew me away.

I love seeing Casey race, I love racing full stop. I was more a Bayliss fan when he was on a Duc, but seeing Stoner backing that bike into the curves the way he does  :o.

But, this is my personal opinion, Valentino has had one extremely talented Aussie keeping him at the pointy end of the field. The same one that helped Doohan to 5 world championships. He followed him from Honda to Yamaha. I couldn't see him go to Ducati if Vale was to go, maybe I'm wrong. Guess that man?

Casey is only young, he will mature more.

I remember reading about this, but thought its may have been a hyped up Aussie journalist blowing smoke up his bum. The article read that the race was to be the making of Stoner in that he overcame some demons and (from memory) got past Rossi on the last lap after duelling all day.

It would have shown that he can do it, it is up to him to make sure he continues to do it.

Those races mentioned above could be any of the Euro races - Valentia, Assen, Jerez.  Each bike and rider has their favourites, but it seems in recent years the gap has closed incredibly, and the only real protagonist Rossi has is Stoner, with Jorge now closely following up.  If Jorge starts threatening like Stoner does, Rossi will resort to the physical (read Laguna Seca) and the psychological (using the press/media to his advantage).

I agree with Betty that a rider doesn't have to be the complete package/'media savvy' but it does help, especially when bringing in the all important sponsorship dollars, and that is where Australian riders are let down.  Australian riders will never get sponsorship dollars they require here and thus sacrifices are made and they head to Europe to follow their dream.  Look at Chris Vermulen - he would never of really made it without the word of one late great Barry Sheene in certain people's ear.  Look at Doohan also - he was never as charismatic off the track as a Mamola, Rainey, or Schwantz.  It was the sheer fact he is a rider a fantastic talent that kept him on a bike.

One thing I am glad is that Tosserland is long gone - couldn't stand the bloke - nothing like a Foggy as all the British media hoped.  Really thought Colin Edwards got the raw end of that deal - but look who's laughing now!!  ;D

Oohh just a quick note - Stoner fastest in FP1 at Qatar!! Usual suspects trailing him Jorge, Rossi, Dovi (always forget about him - he is a really good rider), and Hayden (yawn he will fade in the race) with Spies (another guy to watch, stupidly fast on a superbike - if he transfers that across.....)

Westy 5th fastest in Moto2 - very interested in this new class.

Guess I will be heading in to work late Monday morning........ [moto] ;D

I thought that might be a bit of a controversial statement! I think that he does have some racecraft, but just that it's not as refined as Rossis. By that I mean also how consistent he is in applying it. I agree that he's been brilliant in some races, just not so much in others..

I'm glad you brought up Troy, and I agree whole heartedly! He's my modern day Aussie bike racing hero. And to me, he's more complete - not necessarily media savvy as Rossi, but to me at least he's perceived as a "nice friendly guy" who's grounded and willing to get amoungst the fans / media / whatever.

Jeremy Burgess is indeed another talented Aussie, and an essential ingredient to Rossi's success. To develop a bike, you need a talented crew, a committed team owner (to spend the $$), and a talented rider who has development skills - that being, the ability to translate what they feel on the track into the language the crew can interpret. In interviews I have seen, there's a lot of praise both ways - from rider to crew and vice versa. The crew remark on Rossi's uncanny head to be able to unravel multiple issues that a setup may have and prioritise them, and likewise Vale has also acknowledged the contribution of his crew, Burgess in particular.

Thanks for the discussions people! Shortly I'm gonna leave this thread until after the weekend, as I wanna watch it all, not read about it first!

Respec.  ;)

is it true that one HD are showing qualifing tomorrow morning?

Go STONER!!

Well who knows, look at Beatie, when he started comentating I thought Fvck me get off,no disrepect a extremely talented rider but couldn't string words together to make a sentence.
A couple of years later (and obviously some work) and now he's great !!!

Seems like a good career path for retired racers to me. Casey may yet be doing this in years to come.....
JMO !

CS will win the World Championship this year....

He is a a brilliant rider and he is fit and focused...

Val and Yourgay will be in a fight of their own for 1st loser!!!

Ita

Stoner the modern day Doohan  [bow_down]

                      Rossi the modern day Sheene   [bow_down]

                                 





                                      Mmick

*mesage removed. it was irrelevant

Roger...

Received...

Over and out...

As you were Soldier...   

 [beer]

Ita

Don't usually comment on this sort of stuff but felt that I had to say my piece.

I reckon that Casey and Vale both have similar potential but execute in very different ways.  Vale is super confident in all facets of the game, media, riding, etc. and it shows in the way that he is prepared to have a crack at moves on the track that no one thinks will ever come off.  But he manages to make them work and appears brilliant in the process.  Again when in the media spotlight he is extremely confident and this shows through in his laid back manner and ability to accept any garbage that may come his way.
Casey on the other hand has similar potential but doesn't have confidence in himself to have a crack at the risky stuff.  He's too scared he'll stuff up.  On the odd occasion that he does back himself he more often than not does something extaordinary but he finds risk very stressful.  This shows through in the way he treats the media after a ballbreaking ride.
Why so?  Dunno.  Maybe the idea that even if Vale was never to win another race he will always be a hero in the public eye anywhere in the world but Casey, geez the guy falls off a couple of times and people are ready to write him off. 

Just my thoughts.

Here he comes, here comes Casey Stoner (just hum to the tune of Speed Racer, you know, that old cartoon...).  Closely followed by Rossi - got a sneaking feeling that Rossi just might pinch this Qatar victory off Casey this year....hope I am wrong

As predicted Hayden falling away at Qatar.  Good to see Mika up there on another Ducati - maybe he's understanding the way of the Stoner in mastering his weapon..... [laugh]

Anyone got thoughts on De Puniet? - he is another random rider that has highs and lows....

I'd say whoever bleats on about stoner having no personality or not being media friendly have been persuaded by the media. When he first went to ducati i said he wouldn't do any good cause he throws it down the road too often and he just wasn't good enough, i was wrong, and he proved everyone of his detractors wrong by riding the thing ultra professionally, winning often, scoring good points when he couldn't, good enough to win ducati their first championship of the modern era. Sure rossi is flamboyant, the media love him because there's a headline in every sound byte they can get, and don't get me wrong, i think rossi is a great rider, not very sporting, in fact, down right ruthless when he has to be (just like lawson was) but he has the runs on the board and with the media support he can do no wrong. If biaggi had pulled that stunt on gibernau into the last corner he would have been murdered by the press, and not just the spanish press either.
   Stoner does his talking on the bike and i reckon rossi is going to have to reach into his bag of tricks a lot more this year to beat him, especially with lorenzo there to take points consistently as well. oh, and if you think stoner has no personality, i can't recall a premier class rider from australia that did. And it would appear that pedrosa's distinct lack of flavour at all not only suits the equally bland honda and the team manager puig but it gets excused cause he's spanish.

paul.

 [clap] [clap]  Very well said buddy...  You you are dead on target....

Ita

Stoner on poll!!   [clap] 
It's going to be a very interesting season.

Anyone watching??

Ita

Mmmmm. I like to watch!!  [evil] [evil]

Ooops, wrong site, wrong thread!! [roll] [cheeky]

Mate, you've left ya web cam switched on!!!  Turn it off or put some pants on for christs sake!!!! :o

Ita

Heh!! You Perve??  [thumbsup]

To be late  for work, or not to be late for work? That is the question?  [coffee] ;D

At least I'll get the start in!

Might as well go to work now!!!

Ita

can i watch dragon hmmmm

Don't fuken start me!  >:(

Bugger   [bang]
At least Hayden delivered

got up at 3.30am to watch the moto2 and motogp. both great races.

Not really the outcome I'd like but......... it's only the start of the season.

now back to sleep for a couple of hours (on hols)

well that was a let down, beattie doesn't know his left from his right ferchrissakes! and all "rusty" was good for was introducing the adverts!

paul.
and lets not mention the result

mumbles (beattie) always mentions tyres irrespective of what has happened, and I agree Rusty always introduces the adverts so well!!

and yeah lets not mention the result......or the war...... ;D

Shame to hear that there's no MotoGP on this weekend, due to the volcano eruption messing up flights out of Europe.
The Jap Gp is now early Oct.

yeah got a bit worried when I heard that - thought Phillip Island was going to get the bump!! Just means October is chock full of fun!!  [moto]  ;D ;D

Yeah, I was a bit worried too. I thought that would be right - just finalized everything for this years MotoGP and they go change the dates for it.
feeeewww!

by the end of oct. I think I'll have the sound of GP bikes constantly in my head. 

  Superbikes just starting on Foxtell, sorry I meant to post earlier. At Assen this weekend.