There's a guy selling a 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo near me, and I'm interested in the car as a weekend toy/track car. It's still street legal, got 115k miles on it, and it's been very well cared for by the owner and modded/serviced by a very reputable independent Porsche tuning shop in my neighborhood.
The guy's asking $10k for the car. For that money, I think it's fully depreciated and a reasonable buy. Yes, I know it's a Porsche, but they built a lot of these 944's and parts/service are easy to come by where I live.
I like the idea of a track-oriented car. I don't want to buy something new, and I like this car's combination of front engine/rwd + a good performance envelope.
Anybody else own a car that gets regular track-day use? Any recommendations for cars to consider?
I had an 04 Audi TT quatro coupe that I tracked often... that thing rocked the corners better than the Porsches... specially when the turbo on the porsche kicked in mid corner and let the rear break loose... the turbo on the TT had a hard kick too... but in an all wheel drive its not as bad mid corner... although the 911 still yarded me on the straights.
a $500 bmw [evil]
$10K is too much for that 944T IMHO....$7-8K maybe is reasonable to me...unless that thing is showroom immaculate...and you are soooo moved that you have to have it...
as far as track car's though...the most common is the Miata...it is the SV650 of track cars....tons of parts and support for em and easy to flog and put away wet and not worry about...
a buddy of mine is building a UR-Quattro spec 5 cylinder 10 valve turbo for an 88 Audi 4000 CS Quattro which should be fun to see movin!
My wife worked with a group of docs that weekend raced porsches....said the annoying little mini coopers killed them in the corners [evil]
Quote from: zooom on April 09, 2010, 12:04:37 PM
as far as track car's though...the most common is the Miata...
No FHE, but I was looking into Miatas before my attention veered to bikes. Tons of mods and support - aside from crankshaft problems in the first two model years, the engines are apparently bulletproof. From what I remember, these motors are especially moddable since they use the same block, pistons, etc from this engine in a turbo truck they sell overseas. Boosting is just a matter of adding something that compresses air and plumbing. Well, maybe not bolt-on easy, but relatively easy.
Early Rx7s were another popular car when I was looking - you may look to see what classes are popular or competitive in your area before you decide on a car.
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 09, 2010, 12:01:06 PM
a $500 bmw [evil]
Quote from: Ghostly Pip on April 09, 2010, 12:02:51 PM
Go on...
E30?
http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-500-craigslist-car-beat-400k-rally-racers (http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-500-craigslist-car-beat-400k-rally-racers)
Any rental car...take out all the coverages
Quote from: il d00d on April 09, 2010, 01:04:24 PM
No FHE, but I was looking into Miatas before my attention veered to bikes. Tons of mods and support - aside from crankshaft problems in the first two model years, the engines are apparently bulletproof. From what I remember, these motors are especially moddable since they use the same block, pistons, etc from this engine in a turbo truck they sell overseas. Boosting is just a matter of adding something that compresses air and plumbing. Well, maybe not bolt-on easy, but relatively easy.
Early Rx7s were another popular car when I was looking - you may look to see what classes are popular or competitive in your area before you decide on a car.
not a truck, a 323gtx:
(http://home.c2i.net/kleng/bilder/bil/allebiler/323gtx.jpg)
Quote from: zooom on April 09, 2010, 12:04:37 PM
$10K is too much for that 944T IMHO....$7-8K maybe is reasonable to me...unless that thing is showroom immaculate...and you are soooo moved that you have to have it...
as far as track car's though...the most common is the Miata...it is the SV650 of track cars....tons of parts and support for em and easy to flog and put away wet and not worry about...
a buddy of mine is building a UR-Quattro spec 5 cylinder 10 valve turbo for an 88 Audi 4000 CS Quattro which should be fun to see movin!
Miata is out - unless I put in a serious roll bar setup. No convertibles allowed on some of the track day events around here, and I'd hate to skip events at Road America because I don't have a proper car. I also admit to a strong bias against Audis for track use - way too nose-heavy for my taste. I prefer cars that have a dominant oversteer characteristic at the limit. In fact, my friend with a heavily modded A4 just bought a used M3 to run at the track for that very reason. Another friend who has a very nicely sorted A6 got a 997 for his track-day car. I like Audis in general (and even though I don't own one, I'm a member of the Audi Club [laugh]) but I'd never buy one for a track-day car. SO, to sum up, neither a Miata nor any front-driver is in the cards for me.
I really like my friend's 997, but that's waaaaaay too much coin for me to blow on a weekend toy. (I have a wife that I'd like to keep [laugh]) I've also considered finding a 6-speed C5 Corvette, but that would likely put me past the $20k threshold, and I'd like to keep this on a reasonable budget. (assuming that I'll be buying some brake pads, tires, etc.). Thought
briefly about a Lotus - 'til I attempted to get into the driver's seat of an Elise. I'm 6'4", and it took me about 5 minutes to wedge my ass into the seat.
I dunno. Now that I'm over 40, I think I"m turning into a crotchety old man... [laugh] [roll]
Pm sent. [thumbsup]
Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6, many years ago :)
Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 (0-200) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdNMjhh1Vdk&feature=related#)
Just listen to that engine!
Nissan 240SX....I built it for $15K 360HP at the rear wheels and 2300 lbs... C5 Z06 are excellent track cars as well I just sold mine last year.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/ntnsracing_2101_378794119)
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/ntnsracing_2101_380883056)
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/ntnsracing_2101_380968818)
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/ntnsracing_2101_381078302)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/287483278_a35e666d2e.jpg)
Quote from: ryanracer on April 09, 2010, 05:14:50 PM
Nissan 240SX....I built it for $15K 360HP at the rear wheels and 2300 lbs... C5 Z06 are excellent track cars as well I just sold mine last year.
nice! Did you build that 240 yourself?
I've seen some C5 Z06's around here. A local guy has a 2004 for sale with only 23,000 miles on it. He's asking $24k, and that would be a fun car.
Yes I built that car back in 07' still on the same motor too...
Holy crap! I would have sold you my C5 Z06 for $18K. It was a full cage, KW double adj shocks, 2 sets of custom HRE wheels and built to the teeth. I sold it for $18K. I wished I had sold it to you cause the idiot that bought it did nothing but complain...We had over $20K into it on top of the price of the car.
Quote from: ryanracer on April 09, 2010, 05:50:58 PM
Yes I built that car back in 07' still on the same motor too...
Holy crap! I would have sold you my C5 Z06 for $18K. It was a full cage, KW double adj shocks, 2 sets of custom HRE wheels and built to the teeth. I sold it for $18K. I wished I had sold it to you cause the idiot that bought it did nothing but complain...We had over $20K into it on top of the price of the car.
Only $18k? That surprises me.
A Z06 would be fun. I'd consider one, for the right price. What would be a reasonable price for an 03 or '04 model? Know of any good ones for sale?
I've seen them go for as low as $17K with 30K miles on them.
Quote from: bluemoco on April 09, 2010, 02:00:02 PM
Miata is out - unless I put in a serious roll bar setup.
or get the hard top...?
Quote from: bluemoco on April 09, 2010, 02:00:02 PM
Now that I'm over 40, I think I"m turning into a crotchety old man... [laugh] [roll]
Hahahaha.....welcome to the club, Pete. ;D
i loved my 91 300zx twin turbo. bought the car for 5k put another 5k in mods (bigger turbos, ecu, bigger injectors, full exhaust, and dual cone filters) 556 hp 490 lbs of torque. running the 1/4 in the 11s. and did really well in road races also. plus it was my daily driver for over 3 years. i cant wait to pay off my 848 and buy another one
Quote from: DarkStaR on April 09, 2010, 08:15:15 PM
or get the hard top...?
still not interested
Quote from: ryanracer link=topic=36974quote author=ryanracer link=topic=36974.msg651014#msg651014 date=1270865212]
I've seen them go for as low as $17K with 30K miles on them.
that would very compelling. A Chevy would be easy to own, too. Gonna have to do some hunting, I guess.
I have a track ready suburban........$2500. Everything works, 220k miles, I wont even charge you extra for the huge dents in the body that were from pulling tree stumps on the farm(chain snapped and did a number on the rear door!)It does have every track day car buffs suspension though........It has Bilstein shocks sport mode and sway bars. Tires are mostly good and the radio works so you can listen to bananarama while shredding tires in turn 3.
[laugh]
It does come with fold down seats so you fit a drinks decanter in there and really pimp it out. . Almost forgot it has special one year only paint mostly in bad shape, and its muddy..........on the inside, farm truck.Outside gets washed with the rain. Rumor has it The Stig on next seasons Top Gear is coming over to do a special on my track ready suburban and yes, It'll also get a lap from Capt Slow as well! wahooooooooo!!!! [laugh]
Quote from: badgalbetty on April 10, 2010, 04:51:02 AM
Tires are mostly good and the radio works so you can listen to bananarama while shredding tires in turn 3.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Consider an old 3000GT? They mod well, you can snag an awd, aws twin turbo one for fairly cheap. They have the typical known problems with known fixes (aka transfer case), but I've owned a couple, and they were always a hoot.
I've also seen the occasional NSX going in that price range. :P
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 10, 2010, 07:40:28 AM
Consider an old 3000GT? They mod well, you can snag an awd, aws twin turbo one for fairly cheap. They have the typical known problems with known fixes (aka transfer case), but I've owned a couple, and they were always a hoot.
I've also seen the occasional NSX going in that price range. :P
These are good suggestions - I'd LOVE an NSX, but they're pretty scarce. My wife's uncle (and fellow Ducati rider 8)) had an NSX. I rode in it a few times, and it was a terrific car. He traded it on a Maserati coupe and regretted the deal within about a month. [laugh]
Quote from: AdamX on April 09, 2010, 04:02:42 PM
Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6, many years ago :)
Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 (0-200) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdNMjhh1Vdk&feature=related#)
Just listen to that engine!
I had the same car. The engine was amazing. Too bad the rest of the car wasn't the same.
Quote from: bluemoco on April 10, 2010, 08:58:26 AM
These are good suggestions - I'd LOVE an NSX, but they're pretty scarce. My wife's uncle (and fellow Ducati rider 8)) had an NSX. I rode in it a few times, and it was a terrific car. He traded it on a Maserati coupe and regretted the deal within about a month. [laugh]
The bay area tends to see more of these things-hell-mt bmw is like a freakin ford escort around here-everyone has one.
I can keep an eye out for anything if you ever decide what yer lookin for.
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 10, 2010, 07:40:28 AM
Consider an old 3000GT? They mod well, you can snag an awd, aws twin turbo one for fairly cheap. They have the typical known problems with known fixes (aka transfer case), but I've owned a couple, and they were always a hoot.
I've also seen the occasional NSX going in that price range. :P
3000GTs are great cars but from what ive heard from guys that race them its hard and expensive to get over 550 hp out of them (reliably) did you mod yours?
and for the NSX, what price range is that? cause almost every NSX ive seen for sale starts at nearly 20 grand, and that is for a mid 90s model.
now if i had 50 grand to throw at a pure track car i would love to get my hands on a R34 skyline GTR , buts thats just me
Quote from: hadesducati848 on April 10, 2010, 11:48:17 AM
3000GTs are great cars but from what ive heard from guys that race them its hard and expensive to get over 550 hp out of them (reliably) did you mod yours?
Yes, but as it was a street commuter, I kept it to a conservative 400 horse or so :P
Quote from: bluemoco on April 09, 2010, 11:48:16 AM
There's a guy selling a 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo near me, and I'm interested in the car as a weekend toy/track car. It's still street legal, got 115k miles on it, and it's been very well cared for by the owner and modded/serviced by a very reputable independent Porsche tuning shop in my neighborhood.
The guy's asking $10k for the car. For that money, I think it's fully depreciated and a reasonable buy. Yes, I know it's a Porsche, but they built a lot of these 944's and parts/service are easy to come by where I live.
I like the idea of a track-oriented car. I don't want to buy something new, and I like this car's combination of front engine/rwd + a good performance envelope.
Anybody else own a car that gets regular track-day use? Any recommendations for cars to consider?
Thats about double what that car is worth.
944's are just glorified VW's. And they are slow -- but they handle real good.
Oh, and pray to god you never have to change the water pump...
Are you looking to just have a track car or really compete with others?
If the former, just buy something in your price range that is fun to drive and you like the way it looks, easily source parts, et.
If the latter, you better have lots of money because there is always someone at the track with more of it then you.........
How about a cheaper route and go with a shifter cart?
Quote from: RAT900 on April 09, 2010, 01:16:44 PM
Any rental car...take out all the coverages
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 11, 2010, 06:47:57 AM
Are you looking to just have a track car or really compete with others?
If the former, just buy something in your price range that is fun to drive and you like the way it looks, easily source parts, et.
If the latter, you better have lots of money because there is always someone at the track with more of it then you.........
How about a cheaper route and go with a shifter cart?
This is the exact reason I kept my 240SX - Parts are a dime a dozen, there are several easy and less expensive upgrades. The engines are dirt cheap (whole motorset with tranny $1300), They handle extremely well and are light cars. The chassis is by far the most expendable thing on the car. You can get a new chassis for $400 or less.
I have had 2 shifter carts, and while they are an absolute blast, they ain't cheap. In my 4 years of cart racing I was over $15K a year to be competitive. However, they are the closest thing to an Indy car that is under $100K.
Well, I got a nice long test ride+drive in the 944T. The owner is a nice retired guy, and the car is in good shape. It drove well, had some nice modifications done to it, and looked to be very well maintained. Frankly, the car really had a nice powerband. Not much power down low, but once the turbo spooled up it made good, smooth power from ~2700rpm to the redline.
Even though the car was decent, I guess I'm just indifferent toward it. I want to be excited about it, but it's just not there. I guess my big reservations have to do with the age of the car. I'm really not thrilled with the idea of spending time + money on a 25 year old car.
After the test drive, I stopped by a couple of dealerships near my house. Dealerships are closed on Sundays in MN, so that makes it a nice day to stroll around the lots. At the Porsche/M-B store, they had a used 2008 Cayman S w/5k on the odo, manual trans, and a "Sold" tag in the windshield. Bastards. [laugh] Great car. The Lexus dealership down the road had a couple of gently used Mustang GT's - both with manual transmissions. [thumbsup] I bet they're fun, too. The last dealer I visited was a big Chevy / Mazda store - they had 3 new Camaros on the lot, but only one was an SS and none had clutch pedals. [roll]
The big takeaway for me: I think I'd be happier with a newer car. It may cost more $$ to buy, but I'll likely enjoy it a LOT more when it's not being used on the track.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 11, 2010, 06:47:57 AM
Are you looking to just have a track car or really compete with others?
I'm looking for a fun car that I'll be able to drive at my leisure yet still enjoy at the track. I'm NOT planning to do any serious racing - just club events, driving schools, etc.
Quote from: wbeck257 on April 11, 2010, 06:21:28 AM
Thats about double what that car is worth.
944's are just glorified VW's. And they are slow -- but they handle real good.
Oh, and pray to god you never have to change the water pump...
Easy there - it's not that dramatic. I don't think that $10k is 'double' what the car's worth, but it may indeed be more than I'm willing to pay for it. I've driven plenty of fast street cars and this 944T was definitely not 'slow'. It's a nicely balanced, lightweight car that is making about 270hp. It would be really fun and capable on the track. The downside is that I don't think I'd enjoy driving it much when it's NOT on the track.
The next step for me - drive some late model cars and see how they feel. A C5 Z06, Cayman S, and maybe even an M3. We'll see...
Quote from: bluemoco on April 11, 2010, 06:44:51 PM
The big takeaway for me: I think I'd be happier with a newer car. It may cost more $$ to buy, but I'll likely enjoy it a LOT more when it's not being used on the track.
Do me a favor and dont buy from a dealership. buy a last years model from someone. one that still has a warranty, and the ability to buy an extended warranty and you'll save a boatload of cash. I'm not a big fan of investing 30k in something and having the value depreciate by 8k as soon as I drive off the lot.
Another car you may want to look at is the GTO..... They are going for around 10K right now.
Quote from: ryanracer on April 11, 2010, 11:55:03 PM
Another car you may want to look at is the GTO..... They are going for around 10K right now.
+1
They're cheap and a good modding platform. Pretty stout right out of the box, really.
Quote from: bluemoco on April 11, 2010, 06:44:51 PM
Easy there - it's not that dramatic. I don't think that $10k is 'double' what the car's worth, but it may indeed be more than I'm willing to pay for it. I've driven plenty of fast street cars and this 944T was definitely not 'slow'. It's a nicely balanced, lightweight car that is making about 270hp. It would be really fun and capable on the track. The downside is that I don't think I'd enjoy driving it much when it's NOT on the track.
Well, I've only bought and sold 3 different 944's.
I wouldn't pay 10 unless it is in just immaculate shape -- and then I wouldn't put that on the track either. I just think for that money you can get something faster, easier to work on, and cheaper to work on than a 24 year old front engine Porsche.
Quote from: wbeck257 on April 12, 2010, 06:44:28 AM
Well, I've only bought and sold 3 different 944's.
I wouldn't pay 10 unless it is in just immaculate shape -- and then I wouldn't put that on the track either. I just think for that money you can get something faster, easier to work on, and cheaper to work on than a 24 year old front engine Porsche.
I agree. That's really what the test drive confirmed for me, too. I'm looking at a couple of Z06 Corvettes that are in the range of $24-28k. The purchase price is higher, but the performance, "ease" of ownership, and parts availability are more compelling than the 944T. I'm also going to take a look at a Cayman S, but that'll likely be too much money for my fun-car budget. [laugh]
Quote from: ryanracer on April 11, 2010, 11:55:03 PM
Another car you may want to look at is the GTO..... They are going for around 10K right now.
Good suggestion - I'll see what I can dig up. [thumbsup]
why not just look for a 93-96 Supra Turbo then?!?!?!
E34 325i
87 Mitso Starion TSi Turbo!
maybe a mid 90's Eagle Talon AWD Turbo also...
Quote from: zooom on April 12, 2010, 10:11:07 AM
87 Mitso Starion TSi Turbo!
maybe a mid 90's Eagle Talon AWD Turbo also...
Not a fan of Mitsu's or Toyota Supras. I guess I tend to favor American and Euro cars - about the only Japanese car I'd be interested in (for this purpose) would be an NSX, but those are quite scarce around here. <shrug>
Quote from: bluemoco on April 12, 2010, 10:51:55 AM
I guess I tend to favor American and Euro cars
best of both worlds then....Merkur XR4Ti !!!
Quote from: zooom on April 12, 2010, 11:12:00 AM
best of both worlds then....Merkur XR4Ti !!!
[laugh]
no
Quote from: AdamX on April 09, 2010, 04:02:42 PM
Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6, many years ago :)
Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 (0-200) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdNMjhh1Vdk&feature=related#)
Just listen to that engine!
I think I just messed my pants!
[evil]
Quote from: alfisti on April 12, 2010, 03:38:50 PM
I think I just messed my pants!
[evil]
At the last HPDE I did at Road America, a guy brought his GTV6 2.5. It was in good original condition, and it sounded great. Unfortunately, I dont' think the car survived 2 days' worth of flogging. :-\
Quote from: bluemoco on April 12, 2010, 03:47:16 PM
At the last HPDE I did at Road America, a guy brought his GTV6 2.5. It was in good original condition, and it sounded great. Unfortunately, I dont' think the car survived 2 days' worth of flogging. :-\
Prolly not.
:-\
Quote from: badgalbetty on April 10, 2010, 04:51:02 AM
I have a track ready suburban........$2500. Everything works, 220k miles, I wont even charge you extra for the huge dents in the body that were from pulling tree stumps on the farm(chain snapped and did a number on the rear door!)It does have every track day car buffs suspension though........It has Bilstein shocks sport mode and sway bars. Tires are mostly good and the radio works so you can listen to bananarama while shredding tires in turn 3.
[laugh]
It does come with fold down seats so you fit a drinks decanter in there and really pimp it out. . Almost forgot it has special one year only paint mostly in bad shape, and its muddy..........on the inside, farm truck.Outside gets washed with the rain. Rumor has it The Stig on next seasons Top Gear is coming over to do a special on my track ready suburban and yes, It'll also get a lap from Capt Slow as well! wahooooooooo!!!! [laugh]
i miss my track surburban
(http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq261/hades300zx/flex.jpg)
(http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq261/hades300zx/stuck.jpg)
thats how we do it on guam
This is how we do it in Texas
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll161/porschaholic/Kendalia/SU1HMDAzNzkuanBn.jpg)
Quote from: Ducaholic on April 14, 2010, 06:11:25 PM
This is how we do it in Texas
somebody needs just a
tad more articulation in the rear. ;D
Quote from: derby on April 14, 2010, 06:30:43 PM
somebody needs just a tad more articulation in the rear. ;D
It'll do an honest 1100 on a 20° ramp. ;D
This is how we do it in Utah... at work... [laugh]
(https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4522860581_b97fe62cf8_o.jpg)
I drove it to the Miller Motorsports Park last night for an open track night. But... not exactly a track day CAR. [laugh]