Ducati Monster Forum

Downshifting to slow...
I mean, I usually dog mine when slowing because I love the sound of the desmo deceleration.  I'm wondering what's going to give the best control of the bike?...and what's best for the engine and clutch vs. brakes?  There's the obvious difference between coming to a stop and adjusting speed so when coming to a stop I dog and downshift until 2nd gear with braking then pop to neutral and use the fronts (or rears on rare occasion) to come to complete stop.  If slowing speed only, I will usually let off the throttle and let the bike decel THEN brake then continue downshifting if necessary.
Just curious if there are any opinions out there about this, I guess everyone knows the ducs scream when you decelerate them REALLy hard, the intake gasps and the bike suspension takes on a different posture, it's really great.  All of this and it gives an enormous amount of stopping power.
I would post some pics, but I hope you understand what I mean. [beer]

Let off the throttle and hear those SIL Megaphones boom!!  [evil]

An engine breaking Duc is pure sonic bliss, it's the best way! [moto]  [bacon] [bacon] [bacon]

Engine braking works, but last time I checked Brakes were made for slowing, Engines made for accelerating.  Although I don't adhere to this 100%, I try to live by it when I can.  If I'm engine braking it is while I'm using the brakes to slow. 

Engines are for going. Brakes are for stopping. Why would you want to lose the RPMs and upset your suspension with too much engine braking? Roll off of the throttle a bit, brake as needed, tuck into the turn, roll on the throttle. Repeat until your tank is low.

sac

Engine breaking along with clutchless downshifting is the best  [moto]

i am a fan of downshifting as needed through the gears as you come to a stop; helps to make sure you are in the gear you need in case of an emergency.

downshift until I'm 5 feet from light and slam on the front brakes.  [cheeky]

In the twisties I like to accelerate hard in between the corners and let off the throttle as I approach a corner and if I need to brake I do it before I come to the entrance of the corner so that I can roll on the throttle as I start through the corner.

Dolph

Depends if the car i'm slowing next to has open windows or not.  [evil]

If the windows are down, I engine brake.
If the windows are up, I engine brake.

(Squeaky brake pads don't help, either. )

Don't forget you want to apply the brakes at least a minimal amount to activate the rear brake light and warn the cager behind you, so he doesn't plow into you when you suddenly decelerate.

So you guys like to spare the engine and not downshift decelerate.  I feel like I need to lay off the downshifting a bit, ever since I started messing with my exhaust cans and the sound got louder, I've had a real passion for hearing the motor decelerate.  My front brakes are bit squeaky, but usually only just as I'm coming to a stop, < 5mph.

A stoppie?  Nice.  Luv to do that all the time.   [laugh]

Engine braking - that's why I have nearly 30k on my brake pads!

I wouldn't be surprised if I end up similarly. 

in the tunnel.    from 11K.

Just be careful downshifting hard, especially on cold tires, wet pavement, or descending a hill.  It is real easy to break the rear tire loose and hard to regain traction.

mitt

rev match or let out the clutch smoooooooth and slooooooow. fixes that problem. Plus i have found that with the v-twin that rev matching really isn't as important for "normal" speeds because of the smaller rev range.

I don't like to decelerate.



Must...go....faster... ;D

[laugh]

thats my ebay name :D

I look for trees. The most effective way to decelerate.

Breaking without braking.

my bike's manual specifically recommends engine braking, so i take them up on it!  plus, of course, it sounds great and every once in a while i get a nice back-fire pop. 

+1 to what someone said about lighting up your brake lights to let the people behind you know you're stopping. 

overall though i've found the exhaust note to be the best way to alert cars of my presence - whether slowing, passing, or whatever.  hardly ever use the horn.  it sounds so wimpy.

if the rear tire dosent rise at least 3 feet then your not doing it right.

When, as a much younger man, I posed this question to my dad, he said,"Would you rather replace your brake pads or rebuild your transmission?"  I've kind of gone with that logic since, although that sweet decel note is hard to resist.

i hammer that baby down like it was a 2 stroke

thanks god for the slipper on the s2r

Saving $30 brake pads at the expense of your clutch doesn't seem like a great trade off to me.  I'd rather have to replace brake pads and rotors anyday. 

I've got 43,000 miles on my Duc. I've had no problems with my clutch, no problems with my tranny.  Those of you who have ridden with me know I'm not exactly gentle with my Rosie.  ;)

Most of the time when slowing for a corner I'll pull in the clutch, blip throttle/click down a gear simultaneously, let out clutch while on the brakes.

 If I'm in tighter stuff, I'll just stay in second and let the compression slow me down and just dab at the brakes.  I engine brake...  A LOT!!!   [evil]   (see sig line)

For around town, just rolling off the throttle provides plenty of slowing action as you're coming up to a stop or gentle curve.  Obviously, I use the brakes to come to a complete stop.  

If you do it right, engine braking ain't gonna hurt the motor, clutch, or tranny.  just my $0.02


...oh yeah, I almost forgot, engine braking with Carbon Termis sounds like Thor is coming, and boy is he PISSED!!!   ;D


 [bacon]

Cool, a lot of really interesting perspectives on the subject mixed with some humorous replies as well.
I think I'm going to continue engine braking when I want to, I might try to lay off the real hard engine braking a bit.
My opinion is the tree method previously mentioned sounds like a fantastic idea, great stopping power and no parts to replace ever.

Paging NAKID to the deceleration thread, now paging NAKID to the deceleration thread please.

Not a tree, but similar in effect.

That pretty much covers it for me.

wait, so you guys who say you don't engine brake and use brakes only, do you actually pull the clutch in and coast while braking?     other than missing out on one of the great motorcycle visceral feelings, how do you stay in the right gear to accelerate? 

the throttle blip to rev match and motor burble on the way down isn't just for the sound.

+1.  I prefer throttle blip + downshift to engine brake.  Less stress on your transmission and less disturbence to the suspension.  Plus you would be in the right gear to accelerate. 

No. I engine brake, but not as a replacement for braking. If I need to decelerate to down shift I will of course roll off of the throttle a bit to get the RPMs in the sweet spot. But I won't whack the throttle closed just to make it sound cool while I'm slowing down. Or even close to it. So really the engine braking isn't braking at all. Its to make your RPMs right for the up coming shift. During that process the brakes should be the work horse for scrubbing off speed. No?


sac

^^^  Ya, he said it better than I could..  ;)

And just so there's no question of my other reasons for engine braking... V V V

My dad said the same thing.  I give my friends the same advice when asked.  In both my car and on my bikes I rarely touch the brake pedal, all engine braking all the time, unless I no-sh*t need to stop right now.  It sounds too damn good not to.  I'm a hypocrite. So sue me.

Sue you?  No way -- takes too much time and I would rather be out riding.    [thumbsup]

I guess not.  I use the brakes only when rolling off the throttle isn't enough.     

I bet we're talking about different riding conditions and not apples to apples.   

^^

I do what he does.

Brakes, clutches and tires are all wear items.

:D

What we are probably talking about difference in rider skill. I kinda suck at riding in general. What I have described above is the easiest way for me to keep my suspension stable while setting up to accelerate through a corner. I make no claims that it is correct or the best way. The title asked, "How do you like to decelerate?" That's how I do it. As usual I've learned a thing or two from this thread.

Cheers.

sac

Lot's of torque, so on sketchy areas hard engine deceleration can break the rear if no rpm matching.

My "rule of thumb"
Front brake is for pavement
Rear brake is for gravel or loose surfaces

I don't decel vs. brake according to road debris or gravel, but I would prefer the rear wheel lose traction rather than the front.
 
If I gota stop likitysplit, I'll engine brake hard and use the front brake hard, but this can be really dangerous as I can feel both wheels straining to hold.  It does get the bike stopped as quick as possible.
 
I've stopped using 2nd gear for engine braking and just shifting through to neut from 3rd while using front brake whne coming to full stop in the city.  As far as hard engine braking for fun goes...I don't think I could ever stop.  The sound and feel is intoxicating.

I've never heard a good reason why engine braking is bad. I've hard a lot of anecdotal info about it but nothing solid. If your engine/tranny can handle 80+HP (or insert your HP here) of acceleration then why is way less than that of deceleration going to do any damage?  I doubt that you get more than 20hp or so of engine braking.

There's good decelaration... and then there's bad decelaration.

This is the bad kind: http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/tulsacrash.asp (http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/tulsacrash.asp)

 :P

I'm usually a fan of gruesome and morbid but, man, that was rough. I can't believe the authorities in Tulsa let those pics out.

Ride safe everyone!!!!!!!

Is this gruesome enough for ya?   [evil]
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/tazios/photo-43.jpg)

That's one helluva bad case of road rash!   [cheeky]  ;)

Just bustin' your chops, Sean!  That bloody knuckle is the best argument for wearing full gear! 


 [bacon]

Yeah, didn't post that to be funny. When I saw the earlier posts about using trees for slowing down it just for some weird reason made me think of that incident. It was posted as a reminder of the bad, make that stupid, things that can happen on scooters. When I got that story by email I thought it was a joke... but obviously it was not. Bad juju for sure...

Be careful out there folks, even when decelerating. And yes, I love to downshift and blip the throttle on my Ducs with Termis and my RC51 with Satos... ahhhh, the beauty! [thumbsup] [moto]

At first I agree with this, but does friction and loss of momentum create more stopping power than the engine can create going forward?  I'm not sure...the bike (and all moving objects) just wants to stop when in motion so I'm not sure you could get the same acceleration force forward as you could possible with deceleration (especially if the rear wheel had full traction during decel).  Newtonian classical physics...I believe *I am a chemist, not a physicist*...laws are saying you can slow faster than you can speed up?   ? [drink] :-\

Bikes are for fun (and transportation) right??  Do what makes you happy.... for me... downshift!  [evil]

Dammit Ryan, I've been telling everyone that I got that from a fight. I punched someone in the face and his teeth cut me and you had to go and tell 'em it's road rash.   


 ;)

uh, yeah... That's what I meant.  You were wearing full gear and got in a fight with that weird guy at 7-Eleven and when you punched him, you scraped your hand on the pavement in the parking lot... Yeah, that's the ticket!  ;)

The difference is gas.  Going forward you have the engine's power to accelerate. If you engine brake you have friction(air, tire & powertrain) slowing you down as well as pumping losses from the engine. Most loses I see quoted are about 15% of engine power being lost to those forces(friction and pumping). If these forces were greater than what you bike had in HP you would never be able to accelerate the bike.

With a good set of brakes though I agree that you can stop faster than accelerate.