Ducati Monster Forum

In the year or so that I've been a bike commuter I've had several run-ins with store managers who won't allow me to bring my backpack into their stores. My argument is always the same: "I'll leave my backpack at the front of the store as soon as you start making your women customers leave their purses there too." As valid as my point may be, it rarely ever gets anywhere. I just end up in a shouting match with the manager.

While some might argue that I'm better off not doing business with these huge, impersonal, bureaucratic, even evil companies -- and I wouldn't necessarily disagree -- I think we motorcycle activists should put up a fight on this issue. I resent being told by store managers that I'm not entitled to the same level of convenience and security -- because the "glove box" of my "car" happens to be a pouch or two in a back pack. And I resent the implication that, because I carry a backpack, I'm more likely to steal than a woman who carries a purse.

Sorry for the rant, but I'd be interested in knowing what other bikers think of this issue.

Del Amo wanted me to leave my gloves, helmet, jacket, and bag at the door.  I get why they do it, but that doesn't me I like it.  It's an inconvenience to unload it all, and it makes me feel as though I'm being judged, like what about my appearance makes them thing my intentions are not honorable?

I don't shop at Del Amo for many other reasons in addition to that, but I can't say that practice will stop me from shopping at a store.  Not sure if ProItalia or Socal Ducati have those rules.  Sometimes it just can't be escaped.

they actually have a gear check at the front of the store... i've never felt like they were doing it for any other reason than convenience...

guitarcenter, on the other hand...

Tuff life eh?  :'(

I dont like it. But what are you going to do? its their shop.

I had to PAY to get my helmet, my jacket seperately to get checked once, and they scratched my lens and they said to bad.

Thats why i now have a cheap helmet for my everyday stuff, and my nice helmet. and if they make me check my helmet, im making them check my jacket too. and then after he gets everything. im going to say i changed my mind and make him get everything out again.

I've never had this issue anywhere, in years of bike commuting.

[laugh]


Same here.

I have shopped at grocery stores using the pack as a shopping cart and never been hassled in that or any other situation.

Of course, if anyone did ask to hold my bag while I shopped I'd just assume it was because they don't enjoy giving away merchandise for free and they don't know if I'm a klepto.  [leo]

Then again, maybe you're just being repressed.

you should go back to the store with a massive dildo and like a bunch of used condoms, and when he tells you that you need to check your bag, tell him you need your bag because it contains private items, if he contests, tell him you need to pull these items out and then just throw it all on the floor, and make an awkward exit.

as long as you're not one of the spokesmen.   how do you think a shouting match does anything but make a store manager likely to think he's right and now also thinks motorcyclists are pricks.

I was bike-only through college and grad school...I used to carry helmet myself, but approach either manager/security/customer service near front and ask if they had somewhere secure for me to leave backpack and jacket (florida and it was hot, so nice to not wear it inside).   So since you asked opinions mine is that it's either a non-issue, or you're looking for something trivial to make a big deal out of.    Sorry, Man.

um, unless there is a specific sign that says no bags i'm bringing mine in. Call the cops or have security follow me around i really don't care.

now if you KNOWINGLY go somewhere where they don't allow bags (man or women) then you don't have a case. For instance the chicago art musuem makes you check all bags so i'd know i'd have to check it.

i think claiming that its not fair that women are treated differently with their purses than men are with backpacks is beyond silly.

I've only had a few stores (mostly music or book stores) ask me to check my backpack at the front and they do it for all bags (shopping bags from other stores, etc).  It never particularly bothered me, sometimes it's nice not to have to lug the 25-lb thing around the store.

My purse is the size of a man's wallet so I've never been asked to check it, can't comment on larger purses.

ya think  :D

It's a European man-tote.  >:(    and she said it made me look me look distinguished and sexy.

i can't read this $hit anymore. the stories that you have to tell about this subject just pisses me off. i would be the dick customer.

I had this happen to me and I just ignored the manager.

I either ignore them or tell them I'm an off duty cop with a gun in my bag and won't be leaving it with them. Never been stopped.

What do you tell them when you're "on duty?" That you keep your Doughnuts in there?  :D

Maybe I'm one of the rare ones who prefers to check in his backpack (unless my work laptop is in it) since its even more convenient for me to shop around with out my bag/helmet and always wondering how many security cameras/personal are following me around.

I've yet to be asked to check in my backpack, but if I do come across that moment, I don't think I'd be upset at all. I even have a small lock in the event I have to check in the bag (to somewhat help deter a would be thief).

I've never had problems carrying a backpack & helmet in stores.  I just toss them in my shopping cart at Wal-Mart & local grocery stores and nobody seems to care.  Granted, I live in a small town.

However, if I did walk into a store, was stopped and told I couldn't , I'd politely ask why, and ask want to know where their bag check for ALL bags, including purses was.  Following the stuttering by whatever employee/manager at that, I'd just let them know (unless my life depended on what I was there to purchase) I'd just be taking my business to a competitor and walk out.

However, gas stations are another thing.  I can't tell you how many times I've been informed at non-prepay signed stations, that I'd have to prepay for my gas.  If another station was nearby, especially within sight, I just cranked and headed there.

JM

When I rode the Duc to The Getty Center (free parking and admission for bikes whoo hoo!), I walked around the museum for about 30 minutes until they asked me to check my helmet and camelbak.  Even though the backpack couldn't fit more than a deck of cards in it, I totally understood it was more for safety than anything else.  Priceless objects + moto helmet hung on backpack don't go too well together.

I checked my pack, helmet, jacket, gloves, etc...  And thanked security who personally escorted me to the coat check.

  As motorcyclists we get a bad rap anyway from most people.  Why exacerbate a situation or perpetuate a stereotype that hurts us all?   [roll]

As an aside...
The girl at the coat check was cute, friendly, and had lots of questions about what kind of bike I rode.  Didn't figure out until a day and a half later she was flirting with me and I totally blew it... [bang]  Story of my Life...  [roll]

If I was in a place that had a coat/bag check in place, I'd comply without question FWIW ~

JM

Admission is free for everyone, free parking is cool though.

Holy crap! I about fell down when I read that one!! Doughnuts?? Where do you come up with stuff kopfager?

books.

That's what I meant... I probably could've worded it a bit different, huh?   ;)

Admission is free, but parking is $15.00

If you ride a bike they don't charge for parking.

Thanks for catching that hbliam...   [thumbsup]




 [bacon]

Dude, you've got it all wrong.  They're not discriminating against you.  They're catering to you as a motorcyclist by offering a gear check that they don't offer others.  It's like turning down the fluffer and her twin sister and crying discrimination just cuz Mr. Viagra wasn't offered their services too.

I love it when they want me to check my bag.  [thumbsup]  Someone else can keep an eye on my shit.  Besides, I'm much more concerned about the asshats in two tons of steel than whether some store lackey profiles motorcyclists. I've got a personal limit of moto anger/indignation and I'm not going to waste it on arguing about free gear check.

 [clap]
Your way with words is just so much better than mine!   ;D

mind if i ask why it's silly? a bag is a bag in my eyes.

secondly, we wouldnt have this problem if people weren't stealing shit all the time.
1) people would trust us with our backpacks in their shops
2) we we trust people with our backpacks

I dont think its easy to steal something with a motorcycle backpack.

Most backpacks arent designed for motorcycles so if your wearing a jacket, it isnt easy to take on and off.
And lets say it is to take on and off, it would be very awakrd for you to try and steal something with your backpack without someone looking at you...moving it to your front, unzipping it, and then zipping it back up. also your helmet would be in the way.

A purse. girls caryr their purse and its easy to access, they open it up for a number of reasons, their phone, wallet, makeup, chap stick etc. so they can take something small, crack open their bag, quickly to look for something slip it in and bam your gone.

In fact a study i read once said that 80% of shoplifters are women. and 90% of the stuff they steal is makeup. Not that they dont have money, but becasue its so easy and its thrilling for them.

A girl i know carries fullsized .45 in her purse. i bet you its easier to pull out a .45 from a purse then it is from a backpack.

Hmmm. The guys I know often don't carry their 45 in their backpack, perhaps their backup can go there. The carry goes on the hip inside the pants. Or on the belly band, just underneath a loose shirt. Or heaven forbid, the fannypack. Which has led me to the assumption that anyone with a fannypack is (a) packin', (b) diabetic, (c) far out of touch with fashion.

Ol' wife sometimes carries hers in her purse. Neither of us really like it there. We've figured out good alternatives


I suppose, then, I will have difficulty explaining it to you. Purses, are for women's apparel purposes, a necessity. A backpack is not. Women do not often have pockets and have need to carry unmentionable things with them, as well as their identification and money. That is enough of that, lest we all digress into an argument as to how men and women are different but equal, and so they get some different rules. Its like separate but equal, except completely different.

Different subject but this is why I don't valet my truck. I have a carry license and my gun is in my truck. Not that they know that but I don't ever want a valet driver in my truck thinking a pistol might be in there. Yeah... I'm, paranoid. I should be! [thumbsup]

Stores that treat me different because I ride a bike and maybe have a backpack will never be visited again by me. Never had that problem either but if I did they are toast!

I have that issue with the valet too - especially if I'm going somewhere and might enjoy a bev - because that means "it" has to sit in the car. (apparently i refer to it as though its a puppy...) Makes me too uncomfortable the entire time. I'll park my own damn truck. Or leave the gun at home and tote a leo friend along. They are just as handy, but sometimes not as fashionable.

If you have a carry permit, why is your gun in your truck?

he been drinkin' and drivin' and holdin' a flashlight out the window to spook the animals. movin' targets and all that.

The last time I got followed by a mall ninja security guard for similar reasons I just turned to him and said "If you're going to follow me around, would you mind holding my backpack?"

He was not amused.

But I was  [evil]

I've never been asked to leave my bag at the door, I think my size has something to do with it.  Angry-looking six-foot bald man walks into a shop, not many kids are going to ask him to do anything.  The grumpy old ladies who want to search me on the way out sure give me the shits though!  I always refuse, but it took me a long time to come up with a legitimate sounding reason.

For a while, it was because I can.  Then I decided I was just going to be a dick, and demand a manager be present.  Then I'd say You're wasting my time, I'm wasting yours.  Now, I have come up with what I think is a really good reason: I've always got my camera on me, and it ain't cheap.  Combined with the accessories, I'm probably walking around with five or six grand worth of gear, so I tell 'em it's a liability thing.  "If I show you what's in here and I get robbed in five minutes, I'm gonna think you called someone and told 'em to look for me.  I'm just trying to save you from that sort of liability."

Mostly it just freaks people out, and they stop insisting quite so stridently.

Old women tho, they're pushy about it.  I know the law, I know my rights.  Get stuffed, ye bat.

start carrying a giant rubber penis in that bag and let 'em search.

Apparently you don't. Shopkeepers right.

Seems like you could benefit by carrying over this idea?!


Someone threw a bag of grease on my bike!   >:(

Luckily, it was my cheap bike so it's all good!!  [thumbsup]




 ;D

Me neither ...and I look shady!   ;D

only because you bring that chick-magnet dog with you to all sorts of places. might as well write free-candy on your bike.

A bag is a bag in your eyes?  Have SEEN Speedbag's avatar?

If you want to be treated like a woman, carry a purse and be done with it; after all, in your eyes a bag is a bag, so it should be no diff to you.  Right?

when you walk into the store, do your eyes look like this??
shifty eyed dog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55ArHjeR1c#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

my shop has a rack at the front door to hold your helmet/pack and hang your jacket.
some day a customer will walk in and we'll get to use it.  8)
<scans parking lot>

What is the shopkeepers right?

Normally, I don't mind checking anything they want me to check.

My wife and I once stood in line to get into Harrod's (I know, but she'd never been there before...) with our 2 year-old. They wanted us to check our small "diaper bag" (containing tantrum-derailing devices, mostly Thomas the Tank Engine-related) and her even smaller purse. She's still never been in Harrod's.

It's their right to ask me to check stuff. It's my right not to patronize the store. It's not my license to act like an asshat.

torts! - in Texas, a shopkeeper may detain a person under reasonable suspicion that they are stealing. There are caveats and exceptions and lots of examples where it goes wrong, but if you show up with bag, and they suspect you are loading it full of cds, they may question you and in some cases look in the bag - they may certainly not tackle you, de-pants you and investigate your rectum (unless you make special requests, but that's neither here, nor there)

There are some pretty good cases where walmart gets sued on these grounds i read - sometimes they prevail, other times they do not.  i like a good "suin' walmart" case.

This is a general summary, and of course should never be used as legal advice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_imprisonment#Shopkeeper.27s_Privilege (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_imprisonment#Shopkeeper.27s_Privilege)

I'm pretty sure such a request would be extra-illegal in Texas

The guy you were telling that he doesn't know his rights lives in Brisbane..... ;)

you get double secret probation.



touche' but many places have such a rule - can you imagine being a store owner deprived of the ability to detain somebody you think is robbing you?!

There is a difference between suspecting me of theft and wanting to search my bag because I have one.

If you think I stole something, call the cops-I'll wait. If you just want to check, then no, I won't let you. I also don't have to show my receipt, unless I sign something stating I will (this applies to places like Costco, which require it).

despite my previous posts, since the thread started discussing searching etc....I have to say I have never been stopped, touched, searched, or had someone look inside a bag I am holding...despite being asked.    Then I become a bit of a lawyer.  (although always friendly in a sarcastic sort of way).   

but now we're drifting in to completely not motorcycle related stuff about everyday shopping.

For example, Cal. Penal Code Sec. 490.5(f)(4) says that merchants can do a limited search of bags but not clothing.  A detained person can say "no" all they want, but the merchant can still search 'em.  On the flip side, if the merchants gets it wrong and they didn't have reasonable suspicion for the search, you can sue 'em for money damages.  Woohoo!!  More lawsuits!!!    ;D

As an alternative to litigation (and in an attempt to bring this back to moto talk), after you've been released you can just get your bike, ride it into the store and do a burn-out at the checkstand.  [evil]

hey, there's app for that!

i mean a video. where that guy chucks something at the guy on the fitty.

Yop.     [moto]   [thumbsup]

Pitbikes at Walmart? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5MRlk2Qqu8&feature=PlayList&p=34BBD93C3E7FEF02&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=64#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

As has been mentioned, I am in Australia.  The same rules apply in Canada, where I'm from: if they reasonably suspect you've been loading the bag with CDs, they can, within limits, be more forceful about it.  I do not appreciate my stuff being fondled by inattentive losers just because I have a backpack for my camera, so I put up a fight.  I also stop shopping at places that demand to search my bag as a matter of course.  Legally I am not required to allow you to, so I will not.  But I get tired of fighting for it, so I avoid it instead.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't this way in many US states as well.  Random or mandatory bag searches are voluntary, they have to have a reasonable suspicion before they're legally able to restrain you, and AFAIK the only thing they're allowed to do is hold you until the police arrive.  

As for the shopkeeper's right...  Yeah, that's working really well in the USA where so many attempts to stop thieves ends up with the staff member getting fired or reprimanded for daring to stop the crook.  Utter bullshit, IMO.  

I have found that I am pestered less often when I have my helmet with me.  A lot of people see it, and (I assume) recognize my inability to leave anything with the vehicle, so they leave me alone.  

i'm not sure how we know the store worker is an inattentive loser, but it seems like you got some hostility towards people's businesses. They could just say "no bags allowed inside" and you'd be happy?

To be clear, I do not refer to "people's businesses".  These are large chains, grocery and department stores.  The small shops are too happy to have customers at all to risk accusing them of theft every time they enter the place.

But yeah, I'm angry, because they lie.  They put 'condition of entry' signs by the door that say they can check your bag, but these are not legally true.  Then, when you leave, management has convinced these minimum-wage grunts that it IS legal, and so I'm stuck between standing up for my rights and ruining this kid's day, or letting them whittle away whatever personal freedoms I've got left.  I didn't steal anything, and I don't appreciate people rummaging through my gear without cause.

Yeah, I'm outraged by it.  They lie, they accuse, and they want me to be complicit?  No way.  

Seems to me if the sign is clearly displayed, saying that consent to search bag is a condition precedent to entry, then you've already consented to such search by entering.

I choose not to shop at those places that do not allow me to carry. If I was a bag carrier, and felt strongly, I'd behave similarly.

They can't prove I saw, read or understood the sign, so it's basically only useful vs people who don't know the rules.  I know the rules, I like the rules.  The rules work in our favour, and if a rule says I do not have to let someone paw through my gear, then dammit, I'm not letting 'em.  ^_^

I go out of my way to avoid shopping in these places, but I can't always do that.  The wife, she has needs too.  She doesn't really appreciate my unwillingness to be searched, she'd rather be on her way.  I don't want to be searched, but I would far rather put up a fight than let someone just do stuff to me.  Cue not quite appropriate or accurate Ben Franklin quote about liberty and convenience.  ;)

This isn't a thread about the constitution is it?

We don't allow those. ;D

The constitution?  Some sort of American frippery, innit?  Nah, we're not talking about that.  ;)

I remember a time when being a motorcyclist meant being a rugged individualist.  Why, no one would dare ask to search your frilly leather saddlebag 'cause they knew there was a fair chance they'd get buried in the desert if they tried.  Back then, we drank gasoline (and not that wussy unleaded crap either!) and pissed vinegar.  Sure it burned your urethra a bit, but damnit, you knew you were a man.  And as a man you were entitled to carry your frilly leather bag anywhere you pleased. 

just how hard is it to take your money elsewhere?

bahaha. where is that guy?

I hope you get a nail in your tire. :-*

If I'm riding a motorcycle, and walking into a store to buy something, how could a backpack possibly be anything BUT a necessity. I'm not going to tuck whatever it is I'm buying under my arm and ride off...

not that kind of necessity - i ride most of the time backpackless.

Any suspicion with me gets the response:

"take my plate # and call the police if you're that sure I did somethin"

as I leave. DONT touch me. Thats when the plant shit on you or find your legal gun and wig the fug out.

seems to me we've gotten ourselves into an internet dick measuring contest about how hardcore we can be to pimple faced teeny bopper who wants to make sure didn't just walk out of the store with a bunch of PS3's in your back pack.

i remember when motorcyclists were rugged individualists.

lol-actually, Im recalling back to the old Frech lady at Louis Vuitton in Ross Park Mall....

I didnt know dicks, playstations, or pimples had ANYthing to do with this

fanny pack

he's packin'

DONT TAZE ME BRO!!!!

http://deadspin.com/5530672/and-now-the-taser-video-youve-all-been-waiting-for (http://deadspin.com/5530672/and-now-the-taser-video-youve-all-been-waiting-for)

i was cheering for the taser wielding guy. i love to see a good tazing.

as someone who lives car free and works retail, you're being an idiot.

1. yes girls can keep their purses. if you want to carry a purse go ahead, slim chances it will be asked to get checked. if a girl brings in a backpack it gets checked the same as yours.

2. "I just end up in a shouting match with the manager", so you regularly get into a shouting match with managers over this? do you really think that this is ever going to change anyones mind? by arguing you only solidify in his mind that you were probably going to steal things and that he was right to follow policy and ask for your bag.

3. why cant you leave your bag? I do it all the time. it gets put somewhere safe and doesn't move until you come and get  it. This is not a big deal.


there is a pretty good chance that if you stopped yelling and asked calmly to keep the bag with you, then gave a good reason (scared about laptop, not staying long, scared about damaging the helmet..) you could probably convince them to llet you keep it. yelling and throwing out accusations wont ever get you anywhere.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a good reason for not allowing back packs in stores.  Backpacks often become like forgotten car trailers, and as the wearer navigates through the store whacking both customers and merchandise. 

Well put.









make the beast with two backs you dude.   >:(

 [laugh] [laugh]

oh, didn't mean that offensively!

But I was quickly corrected when I asked a younger dude what he was packin', assuming that the fanny pack was for a firearm, and was promptly educated about insulin pumps... i felt really bad. then i told him that Hulk Hogan wanted his fanny pack back and moved on.

I sorta did mention it...  ;)

Your logic is flawed on this point...

Walking into an establishment with a backpack is not a reasonable suspicion of stealing. That's more along the lines of prejudice. You are pre - judging a person as a thief.



Arguing against this fact is silly. It's true. Arguing gender specifics says more about your issues than anything else.


This topic has been the most entertaining thread in a while.  All you guys are great. thoroughly enjoyed all of it.  Having ones pack checked in at the Getty, makes perfect sense. That stuff is not replaceable and not affordable to most in their or their children's lifetime.  Places like motorcycle mega stores, it's a little more reasonable to check in gear. A backpack itself not so much.  I don't believe most Americans are thieves, despite Goldman Sachs. I'm not that paranoid.



I commute on my bike too. Once I show them or tell them what's in my pack they usually leave me alone. (If you've seen Pulp Fiction it's the same thing that was in the briefcase)


I have even walked into stores with an empty pack, loaded it up and went to the register and paid.



It's an American one... I know it could be worse, but its the luxury of being. Having travelled, for the most part I'd rather have my issues than someone else outside of the USA or in Arizona.

If that's what was conveyed, it may have been poorly written on my part - the reasonable suspicion would arise from the surrounding circumstances with the backpack or other means of leaving with the stolen goods being only a contributing element.

Nothing more gansta than a fanny pack.  [laugh]

people in stores don't know you from jack.  why should they trust you not to leave with half the store in your backpack?  it's a rare occasion that i leave my backpack on when entering a store, even if it's a restaurant.  i will either leave it on my bike or come back without the backpack.  get some saddlebags or a tank bag if you want to go shopping with your motorcycle. 

Makes sense to me.

I mean-people frequently stuff items down their pants or shirt so often I leave the trousers in the car and go in with my tightie whities on to do my shopping. It's all about safety.

So have you ever been accused of stealing a roll of lifesavers then?

I carry a cork and a piece of masking tape and make the manager sign it so when I leave he can check the seal and make sure I haven't stuffed contraband up my butt.



In other news ya'll are silly and I don't know how people have so many issues in life.

Where do you live that people are so distrusting and fearful. I need to know where not to travel.  I'm sure there is a civilized town nearby with some semblance of law and order, you might need to move.

It's bullshit I tell ya!  They didn't ask the pit bike in walmart dude to check his helmet at the door?  make the beast with two backsing monkeys!  [laugh]

Looking to get our thread locked by throwing in a liberal stab? Let the bag thread be man.

If you like law and order you should really try Arizona out. I love this place.


+1

earth...  i guess some on this board live in a dream world where everyone is honest, trusting, gets along, and skips through life singing show tunes. 

Try Los Angeles, or any other major city.  I'm sure you've heard of them.  They have this thing called crime.  It's terrible really.  People actually steal things.  Shocking.

That's interesting, I can ride into Los Angeles in less than 20 minutes (30 with traffic). I have ridden up to San Francisco and down to San Diego, needless to say, I do so with a backpack. Sometimes I am approached about it, more than half the time, the people that do, end up leaving me alone, they realize I'm on a bike. Unlike the original poster I really don't have to argue. Generally others seem to inherently understand the situation and back off. Seldom do I encounter that special individual that is just so vehement about some arbitrary policy (one would be surprised just how arbitrary some things are).

Oh, and I almost never go to Wal-mart (or as they call it i some parts Wally-World) those people are extra special. Its their unique brand of customer service that keeps me coming back almost never.


Na Na Na Na Na nA nA nA nA Batman !!!

SoCal is kind of Dreamy, now if we can get 5 or 6 million people to go back home, traffic might get better.

Reminds me of a bumper sticker that reads: "Welcome to California, now go home"...




Why so you can jack me of my pennies?  Kick Rocks, Bandidos... [leo]