Ducati Monster Forum

So the dealer who is installing parts on my new 1100S before I pick it up called me just now...

Apparently the rear brake mount on the Rizoma Rearsets causes a kink in the rear brake line that is pretty safe to say "unsafe to ride" with.  They said it would probably require a custom brake line but that because the bike is ABS it's not a very good idea to change the brake lines.  They're going to call Rizoma and see what they have to say about it (my guess is they'll say: "We never said those rearsets were approved for ABS! *click*")  So bugger... guess I'll have to keep the wings and look elsewhere for rearsets.  [bang]

Note: Hand levers and rear levers are not approved for ABS because excessive use of the ABS could break the master cylinders... which will happen with the stock levers as well... but none of the aftermarket companies want to be held liable... so the question of "will a custom brake line work?" is not going to get entertained by Rizoma (my guess anyway).

Im not the tech, and im not someone you should take advice from. BUT if it were me,

id take a look at the lines and see how they differ. ABS is a mechanical component I believe, and the line is just like any other line that holds the fluid to transfer pressure. If the line is thicker and heavy duty, then I agree. But its the same line then you should be able to change it. The orifice might be larger to allow quick pulses from the ABS ( again i dont know a damn thing about how it works)

I would say your right on your guess with rizoma. Hand levers nar rear levers are not approved for ABS??? what do you mean? Are they the same levers. Its hard to picure all this without knowing how the damn thing works. lol

This is causing more headache then good.

Yeah I'm with you.  I think Corsa (dealer) is scratching their heads over this whole ABS thing... maybe not though, Triumphs have had it for a while.  Never the less, my knowledge of physics and engineering tells me that a properly bled brake line works the same regardless of its length.  So it comes down to: do they have steel braided lines in the same gauge as the stock one that they can use to add another inch or so?  It's also possible that they didn't explore the idea of rerouting the line for added length.  I'm gonna go over there later today and give it the ol' bull-fighting from the box seat.

im no tech either,

but wtf ive changed plenty of lines on cars with ABS why should a bike be any different

the notion that swapping high quality braided lines will ruin abs is just nonsense.
Unless there is a factor that i am totally missing here.

make the beast with two backs it, take the bike home and do it yourself. Investigate yourself cause it will take them 10,000 hours to figure something out. Installing rearsets are not hard. and neither is replacing your line.

Might come down to that... guess I'll have to purchase a bleeder kit :-P

I'm surprised to hear you need a longer brake line if you got the M1100 specific rearsets, I thought those worked with the stock lines?  If master isn't moved by the swap from stock to rizoma, what would ABS have to do with it?

When I put S*R Rizoma rearsets on my 1100s I changed the brake line to a longer length for proper routing (you can cheat with the stock line but I didn't like the way I had to run it). 

Granted, I don't have ABS - mine is a 2009 - so there might be something I'm missing here, but I've had no imapcts from doing so.  I got a custom made line from Spiegler when I made the swap, so PM if you want to know more about the details there.

Something seems off here...

You don't think it could be dealer laziness do ya?  ;)

Which dealer did yo ugo to. Duc soho?

tell them they can personally **** my ****.

 ;)

If you got the rearsets made for the 1100, I'd call BS, pull it and do it yourself (if you can bleed the line).  If you got the s*r sets you will want the longer line.  In which case I'd call BS, pull it, get a longer line...


.... and do it yourself.

Quick things:

1. Pictures are worth a thousand words when seeking install advice (plus we all wanna see em anyways!).

2. If you need a custom brake line I don't see how that could interfere with the ABS system at all (the sensors have nothing to do with the length of the line).

3. If you need a custom brake line, just let me know and we can get it for you in your choice of color.

4. Part of the joy of owning a Duc is being turned into a mechanic... stick with it long enough and you will understand where most of us are coming from!

Good luck bud,
- Randy

I saw an (open tank) ABS at my shop.
IIRC there are solid metal lines going from the ABS central unit - down towards, or all the way down to, the front calipers.
I don't know, didn't look closely enough, if it's that kind of lines from the master to the ABS as well.

OP has M1100 with ABS - so just as Rizoma S*R rearsets need a modded line to fit to M1100, its looks as if their M1100 rearsets may also need a modded line to fit on M1100ABS.  If the original line is kinked up... then sounds to me like a shorter line me be needed. But either way, longer/shorter, seems like not such a big deal to me.

+1

I'm guessing it's similar to the BMW system...solid metal line to a fixed point on the frame...braided line from there to the master and then on to the caliper.

I also don't see how a slightly longer line will harm the ABS operation. Fluid pressure is fluid pressure after all the air is removed from the line.

Plus...who cares if the ABS to your rear wheel doesn't work quite right? A longer line won't cause it to lock up, so it is safe to ride. A rear wheel lock isn't all that big of a deal as long as you don't panic. ABS is most useful for the front wheel.


I'd just get a new line and see what happens  [thumbsup]

Alright so here's the update:

I the bike is in the shop area of the dealer so I wasn't able to go back there and see it for myself nor to take pictures.  But here's what the dealer told me when I went by late yesterday afternoon:

The kink happens right at the banjo bolt.  It might be as simple as rotating or replacing the banjo bolt which would have little to no impact on line length.  The ABS has them freaked though.  They've sent emails to Rizoma and tried to phone them up all to no avail just yet.  They have gotten the ear of Elliot Cho (some big-wig ducati guy) about the problem and they're waiting the weekend to get a response back.  He told them his concern is the possibility of screwing with the ABS/ECU algorithms by changing the line length or anything -- but that he needs to talk to the guy who designed the ABS system in Italy to be sure.

So take all of that as you will... sounds like the most valid reason I've heard to hesitate about changing the lines, though I still think it's not going to effect anything.  Whether or not I believe the Elliot Cho stuff... well it makes a good story anyway.

I told them to keep trying to find a solution cause I really don't want the stock "mercury wing" rear sets.  By this time next week we'll start talking about giving up on it.

That sounds fishy.  I've never heard of a (good) shop not letting you see the problem at hand...regardless of where the bike happens to be.

How are the rest of the mods coming along William?

Any pics for us to drool over?

Well I could take a picture of all the parts I've acquired sitting on my desk (most of which you sent me!)... but still no bike to put them on ;-)

Nothing like using uber expensive pieces of art as paperweights right?

Long live the good life and enjoy the little things! Your bike has to get outta that shop soon enough.

what shop did u buy your bike from?

Duc Soho (Corsa Motorsports).... yeah.... I know... but they actually were a big help when I bought my 696 from them, and they're convenient and all that fun stuff.... but yeah... I know.   ;)


(http://www.theatresm.com/DucatiStuff/LackOfBetterThingsToDo.jpg)

mmmmm nice  [thumbsup]

Nice weights. I plan to get mine off the paper and on my 1100 (sans ABS) Thursday.

Update:
So the salesman I've been dealing with went on vacation this week without telling me.  I called the shop today and they told me the bike was ready... when I arrived I found the stock rearsets still on the bike... They told me they got the go-ahead from Elliot Cho to change the brake line (it won't affect the ABS at all) but because my salesman wasn't there, they didn't know they should go ahead and do that.  So I told them to keep it until the job is done.

(http://www.theatresm.com/DucatiStuff/1100S-5-13-10.jpg)

Other Note:  The termi system does not keep the new stock heat-shields on these models (the ones that go further back)... so I may have some very nice looking carbon fiber long heat shields for sale if anyone wants to talk about that for their stock pipes.

make the beast with two backs that take it nowww and go riding!

Dude I so want to... but at this point Saturday and Wednesday are my only free days until June 1st.... and that's likely to fill up till June 7th.... so they might as well make it work the way I want it... but yeah... I really really do just want to ride the damn thing!

And in their place.... what do they supply for heat shields then?

What has changed? My stock carbons work with my Termis.

i think he means the longer shields, like on the newest 696
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_J3_liDBfbvs/SyZSXvFBNGI/AAAAAAAAS5c/U_SeW9bjgPA/s400/2010-Ducati-Monster-696-Sport-Bike.jpg)

and I bet the termis come with the older style (shown in his picture)

Termi slip-ons come with no heat shields.  Until 2010 model you used the stock items but Amlethae is telling us that these new, longer items are not Termi compatible. Oder?

touche

Yeah that's what I'm saying.  Though apparently for the 2010 models, the termi's do come with heat shields (the stock heat shields for the 09 models).  The new longer shields that come stock on the 2010 models do not work with the termi's since there are different mount points.  The picture I posted shows what I'm talking about and the pipes came with those.

ha, i was right.  [popcorn] ;D

OK I got it, they changed the shields on the 10's. I assume the 10 "S" cam with longer CF shields.....
In any event, the CF termis should have come with CF shields.

I'd be tempted to just pick up that 848 next to it [thumbsup]

Wellllll.... tomorrow I'll be finally getting the bike!

They had to order new brake lines from Galfer (apparently this is new for them as Spiegler wasn't able to make the ABS line for them).  And they installed it on Friday and have been bleeding the ABS line for the past 4 days.  Apparently Ducati hasn't designed in an efficient way to bleed the ABS line, so they had to come up with a procedure of activating the ABS solenoids for a very long time to get it to bleed correctly.  But apparently all is working now with one final bleeding session today and ready to go tomorrow! 

They also got in the Darma skins I ordered so they'll be on the bike when I pick it up.... can't wait!!!!  I love the look of Rizoma rearsets.  I'll post pictures when I get her home!!  ;D

i wonder what the bill to install all these parts are like.

is the line DOT approved? i wonder why speigler couldnt make it.

We'll see tomorrow... but the deal was installation would be free... and they're throwing in the brake line for free as well.  So unless they pull the ol' switcheroo should only be the cost of parts.  Rearsets with pass pegs were $799 + 10% off.

Not sure why about Speigler but it was something to do with the ABS line specifically.  I would also imagine that they are DOT approved because it's a dealership and they have to be careful with that kind of thing... but then again who knows.

It's home!  Here's a crappy cell phone picture, but when it stops raining and I've added some of my mods to it I'll take much better pictures!
(http://www.theatresm.com/DucatiStuff/RealDarmah1100SABS.jpg)

Corsa did a great job working on it and the brakes worked just fine on the way home in the rain!  [Didn't engage the ABS and I'm just fine with that!]

Looks good. You going to clear coat those skins?

You know that was one of my first thoughts.  It's very little more than matte black skins with stickers... could use some protectant but I dont want to lose the matte quality.  Any ideas on what to do?

there is such a thing as matte clear...but it doesnt really look clear. more blue/greyish. if that paint is chem resistant. keep it that way looks nice!

glad you got the bike back!

Not sure you can have your cake and eat it too. I can tell you from first hand experience that "OFF" bug spray can cost you a $300 rear seat cowl. It bubbled the factory clear coat which is super thin.

There's a thread out there with your skins tripple clear coated and they look outstanding.

as so many people are having the same problem, I would suggest to send an email directly to rizoma. You can find their contacts on the homepage of rizoma.com. As more people are requesting this, as sooner it will be solved. I think it should not be an individual problem for each of us, to create our own customized work around.

When the dealer was in the process of figuring out how to make it work they did contact Rizoma not only for suggestions but also to inform them that they've got a potential problem in the future as more and more Monsters get ABS.  Rizoma said at the time (May/June) that they are working on a solution and would have it available ASAP.  Sooo... next year maybe? heh

[laugh] [laugh] [clap] [laugh]