Well I just ran into my first problem with tank expansion. I haven't ridden the bike in 2 months traveling for work. Decided to do a battery charge before I cleaned the bike up. I couldn't unlatch the tank because the front of the tank was jammed right up against the ignition key housing. I had to pull the pin out of the hinge to get the tank up. It already looks like the rear hinge is as far back as it goes. (probably moved during my last service, who knows)
Can the ignition switch housing be moved forward at all? Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Dan
Check this out, it might help.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074.0)
Also, I think the ignition housing is non-movable. If the bike is under warranty you might be able to get a new tank from the dealer.
Thanks for the link - bike has been out of warranty period for a while now
Quote from: dbran1949 on May 15, 2010, 02:07:57 PM
Thanks for the link - bike has been out of warranty period for a while now
The fuel tank is replaced under the emission warranty.. 5 years.
Thanks this is good news [thumbsup] I'll get it in to GP ASAP
try and get a new tank - but is it possible to elongate the slots at the rear hinge bolts to relieve things?
Quote from: Grifo on May 15, 2010, 02:24:59 PM
The fuel tank is replaced under the emission warranty.. 5 years.
then what happens...you spend $1800 every few years?
Quote from: lwszabo on May 15, 2010, 03:33:59 PM
then what happens...you spend $1800 every few years?
I don't know yet. I'm on my second tank and this one just started deforming after a year. I'm going to the dealer soon to make another claim, I will also call TJ at DNA. See what they say. If it's the case I guess start looking for an aftermarket replacement. wasn't Chris Kelley working on a fuel cell tank?
Edit: I guess this could be an option unless Ducati resolves the issue once for all
http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/fuel.html (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/fuel.html)
(http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/img/mtt43_red.jpg)
It appears to be an ethanol issue. So maybe there are some things that could be done. If possible, use real gas instead of e10? Drain your tank if the bike is going to sit for longer than a couple of weeks? Would Stabil do anything to keep the ethanol in suspension - and keep it from damaging the tank? I don't know. I wonder if emptying the tank and letting it dry out might let the tank shrink back closer to its original shape? Maybe as part of Winter preventative maintenance, drain and air out the tank over the winter / let it sit empty over Winter? It is a long-term issue and unless new tanks are made of a different material, they will expand too. I don't feel like budgeting for a new tank every few years.
edit: I'm restoring an old GT550 Suzuki and bought a pint of Hirsch tank liner to coat the rusty tank. It is supposed to be able to stand up to ethanol, so maybe coating the S4Rs tank with it would be a way to prevent it from expanding?
I think the old steel carbie tanks fit on 2002+ FI bikes.
That would be cool. I guess you would need an external pump and filter, but my Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport was like that and I liked the easy service aspect (not to mention the no-swelling thing). I've got room under the tank for pump/filter without the airbox and I hear the steel tanks carry more fuel.
Quote from: Grifo on May 15, 2010, 04:34:49 PM
I don't know yet. I'm on my second tank and this one just started deforming after a year. I'm going to the dealer soon to make another claim, I will also call TJ at DNA. See what they say. If it's the case I guess start looking for an aftermarket replacement. wasn't Chris Kelley working on a fuel cell tank?
Edit: I guess this could be an option unless Ducati resolves the issue once for all
http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/fuel.html (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/fuel.html)
I went to see Chris at his old shop a year ago. Notice he calls these Track tanks. Chris is an absolute perfectionist. He was manually polishing the mold for this tank. Because the tanks can't be painted they accurately reproduce every microscopic bump in the mold. That said the tanks look fantastic. One caveat is at the time (and I haven't checked back in over a year) the tanks would not accept the fuel pumps from the S4RS
Quote from: Bill in OKC on May 15, 2010, 04:41:35 PM
It appears to be an ethanol issue.
Dammit ethanol is for drinking [drink] , why won't people listen
Quote from: dbran1949 on May 15, 2010, 05:53:55 PM
I went to see Chris at his old shop a year ago. Notice he calls these Track tanks. Chris is an absolute perfectionist. He was manually polishing the mold for this tank. Because the tanks can't be painted they accurately reproduce every microscopic bump in the mold. That said the tanks look fantastic. One caveat is at the time (and I haven't checked back in over a year) the tanks would not accept the fuel pumps from the S4RS
Bummer I need to contact him and ask.
Quote from: Bill in OKC on May 15, 2010, 05:15:50 PM
That would be cool. I guess you would need an external pump and filter, but my Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport was like that and I liked the easy service aspect (not to mention the no-swelling thing). I've got room under the tank for pump/filter without the airbox and I hear the steel tanks carry more fuel.
Yeah, there both external. There are some definite perks, no swelling and slightly more fuel (4.3 gallons I think). And you can score one on the dreaded Ebay for a couple hundred. I think I remember seeing a couple here not too long ago.
Quote from: Grifo on May 15, 2010, 04:34:49 PM
Edit: I guess this could be an option unless Ducati resolves the issue once for all
http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/fuel.html (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/fuel.html)
Theses tanks from CA cycle works, what prevents the same fate from happening to them?
Quote from: KG4KGL on May 17, 2010, 07:38:11 AM
Theses tanks from CA cycle works, what prevents the same fate from happening to them?
It's my understanding that OEM tanks are nylon which is softened by the ethanol we are all unfortunately forced to put in our tanks. Couple the softened tank with pressure build up because EPA rules do not allow the tank to vent to the atmosphere; the tank literally blows up like a balloon. The cycle-works tanks are made of the same material as the new monster and hyper-motard tanks. It is plastic (think plastic kayak). The down-side is the tank can't be painted, or more accurately it can be painted but paint doesn't adhere too well. All new monsters and the hypers have the black plastic tank with skins to get around the paint issue
If the tank is hidden by skins it doesn't have to be too smooth, but for a monster the tank is the color of the plastic it was made from. Which so far looks like white, black, red, and natural which is translucent so you can see the fuel. Since there is no hiding the monster tank every little imperfection in the mold is visible in the tank. I was talking to Chris from CA cycle one afternoon while he was destroying his third high-speed grinder trying to polish the inside of a huge aluminum mold, that was sand-cast
So if one were to vent the tank, would the tank return to normal? Assuming of course that the the tank was drained, and allowed to dry...
Quote from: KG4KGL on May 17, 2010, 09:49:42 AM
So if one were to vent the tank, would the tank return to normal? Assuming of course that the the tank was drained, and allowed to dry...
Tried it - appears that Ducati has invented a one-way balloon. Understand this is a very slow process. The bike is three years old now. The last time I had the bike serviced it came back without the tank latched in front. I didn't think anything of it until now. I noticed the rear hinge was as far back as it would go. So someone expected some tank stretch (can't tell if it was shipped like this or happened during a service)
Some steel carbie tanks *may* fit some of the air-cooled FI bikes, but.....click on this and read up on it here before buying anything:
All about fuel tanks! (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=541.0)
Converting from an OEM plastic to a OEM FI steel is a fairly expensive proposition.
AFAIK, none of the fuel pump/filter/regulator parts from the plastic tank will fit the steel tanks.
Rear hinge plate is different.
So, if you're buying all of that stuff new, it's more than $500 worth of parts.
The rubber pads and front latch will fit, though. :P
The rear hinge plate can be slotted a little, but not enough to make the front latch totally clear on most of the plastic tanks I've seen.
The tanks are vented though the charcoal canister, so it's not a pressure buildup.
Well
The dealership says it will replace the tank under warrantee. we'll see I will post again if it actually happens
Quote from: KG4KGL on May 17, 2010, 07:38:11 AM
Theses tanks from CA cycle works, what prevents the same fate from happening to them?
Great question. Cross linked polyethylene (PEX) is more dimensionally stable than nylon. I initially said that PEX simply was dimensionally stable, but it does experience some change with exposure to gasoline (though nothing as extreme as nylon).
It would be easy enough to buy a used EFI metal monster tank and adapt it to work on a plastic tank'd Monster. The issues to sort out are how to connect the fuel hoses and ensuring the wiring connector is the right one with correct pinout.
S4Rs fuel pump works in EFI tanks. All the newer Ducati pumps will work on all the Monsters with metal tanks. In that setup, you'll need to buy a strainer bag to attach to the bottom of the pump, hose, hose clamps, and an inline filter. Kinda like all the parts and gizmos in this pic of our home-made fuel flange:
(http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/images/mtt43/flange_3_frames.jpg)
I have heard that you can gain a little room by just elongating the hinge mounting holes. But I didn't look too closely. I just wanted to get the tank back on, so I removed the hinge pin, then after latching the front, forced the pin back in (a real PITA)