I have one of those DID ERV3 520 chains and 43T aluminum quick change rear, stock 15T front with oh lets say about 6k miles on it. I am good with maintenance, and as a rule never ride in the rain or go muddin', etc. I think I take pretty good care of it. I use the Chris Kelley Ducatitech method of cleaning/wiping with Maxima chain wax every other ride. Before this riding season, I cleaned the chain with diesel and a parts brush and really had a good look at it. I noticed I have little black slivers poking out from between some of the links. I assume these are part of the x-rings. What's going on here? This chain was expensive and it appears that it's begun to eat itself! Do I have it adjusted too tight? I have about 30mm movement in the middle of the lower part of the chain per the manual but I'm thinking my measurement may be off a few mms. I'm using one finger to push up on the chain in the middle and measuring from the bottom of the link before I push up on it, to the top of the link when its pushed up. Am I to measure the slack at the centerline of the link, or what? Something's going on here, and I aim to find out what.
Pics?
Quote from: uclabiker06 on May 16, 2010, 07:17:48 PM
Pics?
Could just be gunked up slivers of chain wax peeling off. I like that method of just spray and wipe and never go further, that's clean enough for me. With X/O-rings nothing really gets into the pins unless you force it there.
Diesel may have hurt the seals. What to clean and not clean your X/O-ring chain with and what damage it may or may not cause and whether WD-40 is a cleaner, lube, both, or neither seems to run a close second to oil threads. Pics please.
Also, you've got the quick change rear so the actual toothed part on the rear is steel, right? If it's aluminum teeth you might be sligthly misaligned and shaving little bits off the teeth.
Scott
Diesel doesn't hurt the seals. It's not a penetrant. It's more like paraffin/kerosene. Besides, I have only cleaned the chain with it this one time, when I first discovered these little rubber slivers sticking out. They're rubber too, not wax. One example, there are a couple more at other links in the chain. Bike has an AFAM hard ano quickchange 43T rear, single swingarm, no alignment provision that I know of.
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp211/doofwop/IMG_7298.jpg)
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp211/doofwop/IMG_7299.jpg)
If that's rubber it looks like an x-ring shredding to me too. If teh seals fall out that chain won't last much longer. I know diesel isn't supposed to harm the seals but you mentioned 2 things: 1) you cleaned the chain with diesel and a parts brush and 2) the x-rings are falling apart. Could just be coincidence.
6k miles could kill a chain but that would be pretty hard riding. Most people seem to get around 10k and this is a DID which tend to live long lives. I would contact who you bought the chain from and ask them if they'll replace it.
Scott
The slivers were sticking out of the links way before any diesel came in contact with it. Diesel or kerosene is actually the proper way to clean an o-ring chain, not WD40 which penetrates and runs the grease out of the links. So, i'm pretty sure cleaning it with diesel is not the cause. I don't have any kinky links yet, so I'll keep on riding and just keep an eye on it.
I wouldn't clean my chain with diesel or kerosene.
Your chain does not look right, I would return it.
My chain has 6k miles on it and it is DONE so I wouldn't be surprised if you have one that is dead at that mileage.
Buy a streetfighter. 8)
lol one more time - diesel/kero is the way to clean a chain
Ducati service manual :
"Washing the chain
Chains with O-rings must be washed in petroleum, diesel fuel or paraffin oil(kerosene). Do not use fuel, trichloroethylene or other solvents which will damage the rubber O-rings. Use only sprays which specify that they are for use with O-ring chains.
Lubricating the chain
O-ring chains have sealed, life-lubed link studs and bushes. However, these chains need lubricating at regular intervals to protect the metal parts and to keep the O-rings soft and pliable for guaranteed sealing. Using a brush, apply a thin protective film of high-density engine oil along the entire length of the chain both inside and outside."
Now that that's been settled, what I use as a chain cleaner is but an aside to this discussion. I think the chain wax traps grit, and that grit got to the x-rings. So, no more chain wax for me, or maybe I clean the chain more often with DIESEL to wash away the grit. It would be interesting to see how many of you have little rubber slivers poking out of your chain links and just don't know about it.
Quote from: iamhybris on May 17, 2010, 06:29:11 PMBuy a streetfighter. 8)
???
that's the plan, actually
Fine! Go ahead! Clean your chain with diesel and feed your kids high fructose corn syrup! See if we care! ;)
Seriously, I can see that the chain might be done at 6k but I would expect stretch, worn cogs, and stiff links, not just haywire x-rings. I'd call the vendor, you might get a full replacement or at least a discount on the next one.
Yes, some chain waxes do seem to hold grit, it happens if you leave too much on for sure. I use Maxima too right now, about every 300 miles, no other cleaning. I'm thinking of going with the Dupont Spray Teflon that everyone raves about, get it at any Lowe's. O/X-ring chains just need a little bit of lube for the rings, the chain is already packed with grease and there's no getting more in past the rings once it's worn out. The teflon leaves the chain super clean and people all seem to be getting good mileage with it.
Or just skip the o-rings altogether and go traditional. This is an interesting site:
http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm (http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm)
I thought about it, it's cheaper for sure, but I'm lazy and like the low mess afforded by an x-ring chain, and the safety factor if I neglect it longer than I should. Plus I live in Portland and ride in the rain regularly. Ok, I'm really just mostly lazy.
Scott
x ring ftw especially about what scott said up there. they hold in grease way better an n o ring ever will.
i got 17k on my chain. its a 525 though. a 525 is going to last longer on a bike thats designed for a 520.
22K out of my last chain, ridden in rain and winter salt. Motorex chain lube, i use this to both clean and lube. Somehow those X rings got damaged. Kerosene or diesel cause the damage? No. Even WD 40 is safe if you don't flood the chain with it. Maybe your brush isn't as soft as you think it is.
The toothbrush? Oral-B Cross-Action Vitalizer, soft. It wasn't the brush. As I posted before, all I ever did to the chain up until I discovered the torn x-rings was wipe it with Maxima every other ride. The wax does get built up, and holds grit. The grit caused the damage.
Maybe a manufacturing defect? Maybe the link(s) were pressed out of spec, or maybe the links them selves are not right?
Quote from: bergdoerfer on May 18, 2010, 07:22:08 AM
The toothbrush? Oral-B Cross-Action Vitalizer, soft. It wasn't the brush. As I posted before, all I ever did to the chain up until I discovered the torn x-rings was wipe it with Maxima every other ride. The wax does get built up, and holds grit. The grit caused the damage.
If grit caused the
damage...
where is the
defect?
Quote from: ducpainter on May 18, 2010, 06:00:47 PMwhere is the defect?
I never implied there
was a defect. My original post asked what it was that I did wrong, if anything. I've come to the conclusion that not cleaning the chain enough, especially the sprocket teeth where chain wax tends to build up and trap grit, is what caused the damage. So basically I've answered my own question. I think this thread is useful though, if nothing else to caution the rest of you against allowing wax to build up on the sprocket teeth.
And the chain is aligned right? Is the front sprocket showing noticeable wear?
I gave up on wax heavy products a while ago and use the DuPont Teflon/Wax spray in the blue can. The wax still keeps grit, but the Teflon makes it slippery grit. ;)
Quote from: bergdoerfer on May 19, 2010, 06:59:32 AM
I never implied there was a defect. My original post asked what it was that I did wrong, if anything. I've come to the conclusion that not cleaning the chain enough, especially the sprocket teeth where chain wax tends to build up and trap grit, is what caused the damage. So basically I've answered my own question. I think this thread is useful though, if nothing else to caution the rest of you against allowing wax to build up on the sprocket teeth.
ive cleaned my chain maybe 6 times in its whole 16,000ish mile life with me.
You guys clean chains? ???
Quote from: bergdoerfer on May 19, 2010, 06:59:32 AM
I never implied there was a defect. My original post asked what it was that I did wrong, if anything. I've come to the conclusion that not cleaning the chain enough, especially the sprocket teeth where chain wax tends to build up and trap grit, is what caused the damage. So basically I've answered my own question. I think this thread is useful though, if nothing else to caution the rest of you against allowing wax to build up on the sprocket teeth.
...and my defect comment wasn't necessarily directed at
you.
Two other posters did think your chain is defective.
Quote from: scott_araujo on May 17, 2010, 07:14:39 PM
Fine! Go ahead! Clean your chain with diesel and feed your kids high fructose corn syrup! See if we care! ;)
Seriously, I can see that the chain might be done at 6k but I would expect stretch, worn cogs, and stiff links, not just haywire x-rings. I'd call the vendor, you might get a full replacement or at least a discount on the next one.
Yes, some chain waxes do seem to hold grit, it happens if you leave too much on for sure. I use Maxima too right now, about every 300 miles, no other cleaning. I'm thinking of going with the Dupont Spray Teflon that everyone raves about, get it at any Lowe's. O/X-ring chains just need a little bit of lube for the rings, the chain is already packed with grease and there's no getting more in past the rings once it's worn out. The teflon leaves the chain super clean and people all seem to be getting good mileage with it.
Or just skip the o-rings altogether and go traditional. This is an interesting site:
http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm (http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm)
I thought about it, it's cheaper for sure, but I'm lazy and like the low mess afforded by an x-ring chain, and the safety factor if I neglect it longer than I should. Plus I live in Portland and ride in the rain regularly. Ok, I'm really just mostly lazy.
Scott
Hi Scott
That was a great article about chains. Very enlightening.
I'm not surprised by the chain prices being related to marketing rather than strength and durability.
Thanks. [drink]
Quote from: bergdoerfer on May 19, 2010, 06:59:32 AM
I never implied there was a defect. My original post asked what it was that I did wrong, if anything. I've come to the conclusion that not cleaning the chain enough, especially the sprocket teeth where chain wax tends to build up and trap grit, is what caused the damage. So basically I've answered my own question. I think this thread is useful though, if nothing else to caution the rest of you against allowing wax to build up on the sprocket teeth.
Thanks for the caution bergdoerfer.
We sure can overdo it with the chain lube. Excess chain wax/lube and dirt makes a great grinding paste (cliched but true). Let alone nearly high siding the ol' Triumph Bonneville when I was a newbie, (a long time ago). I've been sparse with the chain lube ever since!
Is my eyesight failing in my middle years or do those x-rings look almost
squashed out.
It might not be you. I'd have the mechanic I
trust check it just to be sure.
Cheers [drink]
Yes, o/x-ring chains need very little lube. Standard old school chains need a bit more but still less than most people slop on.
Scott
Quote from: MrIncredible on May 19, 2010, 08:44:33 AM
You guys clean chains? ???
i'm with this guy. i just spray it down with more dupont teflon every few rides
Quote from: ducpainter on May 19, 2010, 03:50:06 PM
...and my defect comment wasn't necessarily directed at you.
Two other posters did think your chain is defective.
No worries; I might try to finagle a replacement but in my experience the end result will be ummmm nopers.