ericchang87 came by lastnight. we took his old wave rotors off his 620 to put on his new GT1000.
All the bolts came out nice and easilly except 1 of them. They were installed onto Carrozzeria wheels. Needless to say, i ended up snapping my bit on my impact gun (300ft/lbs). It wouldnt come out. It was about 4am. And i had no choice but to break out the mini torch, slotted it and try to knock it out. (oh yea it stripped too)
I didnt have any drill bits, but later im going to drill a hole through it and see if i can melt the locktite and go at it again.
Whoever replaced the original rotors used way to much locktite.
</rant>
Quote from: He Man on May 26, 2010, 01:38:06 PM
ericchang87 came by lastnight. we took his old wave rotors off his 620 to put on his new GT1000.
All the bolts came out nice and easilly except 1 of them. They were installed onto Carrozzeria wheels. Needless to say, i ended up snapping my bit on my impact gun (300ft/lbs). It wouldnt come out. It was about 4am. And i had no choice but to break out the mini torch, slotted it and try to knock it out. (oh yea it stripped too)
I didnt have any drill bits, but later im going to drill a hole through it and see if i can melt the locktite and go at it again.
Whoever replaced the original rotors used way to much locktite.
</rant>
The amount of loctite doesn't affect the bond...just sayin'.
You need a quality hand hammer impact driver and a heat gun.
Quote from: ducpainter on May 26, 2010, 02:00:47 PM
The amount of loctite doesn't affect the bond...just sayin'.
You need a quality hand hammer impact driver and a heat gun.
+1 heat first, then hammer impact.
how is a hammer impact different from a hand impact?
and if u just dip a few threads vs the whole bolt in loctite it makes no difference?
Quote from: He Man on May 26, 2010, 02:35:04 PM
how is a hammer impact different from a hand impact?
and if u just dip a few threads vs the whole bolt in loctite it makes no difference?
We're talking about something you hold in your hand and hit with a hammer. Not a pneumatic tool.
As you screw the fastener in the loctite spreads and coats all the threads. There's only so much clearance for loctite to fill regardless if you use 1 drop or the whole bottle.
It may be more the type of loctite used was inappropriate. I use 222 on everything up to M6, it's only M8/M10 fasteners where you should use 242. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the permanent 262 (which is really only to anchor studs and whatnot) or something.
Sorry, i meant whats the difference between a hammer impact, and an air impact??
I always just give it one drop and let the fastenting spread itself, but i figure theres a difference between lightly coated bolt vs one that completely fills in the threads. I guess not!
Quote from: He Man on May 26, 2010, 04:07:05 PM
Sorry, i meant whats the difference between a hammer impact, and an air impact??
I always just give it one drop and let the fastenting spread itself, but i figure theres a difference between lightly coated bolt vs one that completely fills in the threads. I guess not!
Hammer impact uses down force to break the bond with a twist to turn it. The air tool just twists and usually strips the head or breaks the bit.
Do the math...you're an engineering student. If you assume a 75% thread in a hole and 75% on the bolt how much volume is left? I'm guessing microns. It doesn't take much loctite to completely fill that.
You don't need to be using a pneumatic impact for bolts of that size. Use heat and try to get some good quality extraction tools. The tool Nate is referring to is called an impact driver. You put your socket on the end and strike the other end with a hammer while twisting to the left. As you strike it with the hammer it drives the bit into the screwhead and applies force to loosen the fastener. They are almost a necessity on hex head bolts that have been fastened overtight or with threadlock.
MAP gas(yellow tank) and hand ratchet always works perfect.
are you all using red loctite?
I never thought about it that way. Looks like im making a trip to the home depot.
For the record, in 17 years, only once have I ever needed a pneumatic impact to get a bolt off.
Use less brute force.
Quote from: Düb Lüv on May 26, 2010, 05:29:24 PM
MAP gas(yellow tank) and hand ratchet always works perfect.
are you all using red loctite?
Use blue locktite. Dont use red unless you want it to be permanent.
Quote from: MrIncredible on May 26, 2010, 05:59:37 PM
For the record, in 17 years, only once have I ever needed a pneumatic impact to get a bolt off.
Use less brute force.
i use it cause its easier. Its got 4 settings on it, and i generally leave it on 1, which is fairly mild IMO.
So for my service, should i go with 222 purple low strngth or 242 blue medium strength for all my bolts?
Quote from: Porsche Monkey on May 26, 2010, 06:15:21 PM
Use blue locktite. Dont use red unless you want it to be permanent.
I don't necessarily agree with that.
Red is not permanent, it just requires some heat to remove. There are fasteners on our bikes that require it.
I knew I was gonna catch grief over that. I don't think there are fasteners external to the engine that require red. Exhaust studs maybe? But certainly not regular maintenance items. And yes anything can be removed with the right tools. Hence the reason for this thread. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Porsche Monkey on May 27, 2010, 03:20:06 AM
I knew I was gonna catch grief over that. I don't think there are fasteners external to the engine that require red. Exhaust studs maybe? But certainly not regular maintenance items. And yes anything can be removed with the right tools. Hence the reason for this thread. [thumbsup]
To be honest my tech, the vet, uses red on rotor bolts.
He also heats them and uses an impact driver to remove them...it's not his first fall off the turnip wagon ya know. ;)
That's interesting. I shy away from using the red stuff on aluminum. Different strokes for different folks. ;D
Aluminum on the wheels? or aluminum bolt? Those bolts are mild steel.
I use red on them as well. Do you guys have a special way of heating the bolt. I've used both MAPP and Propane. Perfer propane pens better because it keeps the flame tiny and on the bolt, and not toward the rubber dust cover on the bike.
I use a heat gun on painted/anodized surfaces.
Usually creates less smoke. :D
My approach on rotor bolts is to give a few solid taps in the center of the bolt with a hammer and punch.
Then allen driver and breaker bar.
Been working good lately.
I use this on just about everything.
(http://www.aikencolon.com/assets/images/promoitems/Bosch-25618-18V-Litheon-Impactor-Driver.jpg)
Very few fasteners say no to this tool.
FWIW I took rotors off DP's old track bike with this and the bolts just zinged right out.
many Ducati fasteners are made of cheese so I replace with better quality as required.
I had to comment on the use of red loctite.
While putting my track bike back together I used red loctite on the rotor bolts. I put a drop on the tip of the bolt and installed it. For fun I backed one back out and the entirety of the threads were coated in red loctite.
I thought that in the situation where you don't want that to happen, but you only have red loctite on hand (like me) you can put a drop up near the head of the bolt.
That way only a portion of the threads get the loctite on them.
It works.
:)
Quote from: ducpainter on May 26, 2010, 02:43:23 PM
We're talking about something you hold in your hand and hit with a hammer. Not a pneumatic tool.
I have one of those that I picked up from Sears a few years ago. I've probably only used it three times, but it's one of those must-have tools if you're going to work on bikes that have been around for a few years. I normally use the tool for Phillips screws, but it works well for Allen-head screws too.
I put a jet kit in my XR650 carburetor a few weeks back and there were eight screws that were already worn by a previous owner. Rather than risk stripping them further, I used the hammer and gave each screw just one hit. Every one of them was loosened enough to get out that way.
I think the tool costs less than $20.