Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 07:49:47 AM

Title: Clutch removal/install... Done... But EVR hub nut doesn't fit
Post by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 07:49:47 AM
I've been searching here and the google for hours now looking for tips/tricks to installing a new dry clutch without a clutch holding tool to very little avail.

I've read that putting the bike in gear and having someone hold down the rear break should get me by.  But I'm a bit nervous to start the project without some confirmations.  (I dont want to get half way through and then realize I need to wait on a tool to arrive via UPS before I can ride again)

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Ddan on June 13, 2010, 08:12:22 AM
Unless you're replacing the basket and/or hub, you just need a 3 or 4mm hex.  If you are replacing the hub or basket, there are a few different versions of tools and the method you described will work, especially if you have an impact gun.  No impact gun and you will want a breaker bar as the nut's on pretty tight.
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 08:15:01 AM
Ah yes, it's full basket,hub, etc, the whole shebang.

I don't have an impact drill, but I do have a 2ft-long torque wrench.  I guess the big question is, will the "in-gear + rear brake" method be strong enough to allow me to torque down everything to spec?

Thanks for the help!!
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: DucHead on June 13, 2010, 08:21:12 AM
Make a holding tool out of clutch plates (assuming you're replacing them).
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 08:46:48 AM
I dont really have the skills for making one out of old plates... not able to weld or machine anything really.  I found that option on some forums but didn't seem like something I could really do.
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Ddan on June 13, 2010, 08:51:45 AM
Quote from: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 08:15:01 AM
Ah yes, it's full basket,hub, etc, the whole shebang.

I don't have an impact drill, but I do have a 2ft-long torque wrench.  I guess the big question is, will the "in-gear + rear brake" method be strong enough to allow me to torque down everything to spec?

Thanks for the help!!
Yes, it will.  It's not recommended that you use a torque wrench as a breaker bar, but YMMV.  Loctite the basket bolts and make sure you get the hub nut to the proper torque.  The assembly looks kinda stupid hanging out of the side of the motor on the push rod when you're half way through your 150 mile test ride.  Trust me on this.    [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 09:06:31 AM
Quote from: Dan on June 13, 2010, 08:51:45 AM
make sure you get the hub nut to the proper torque.  The assembly looks kinda stupid hanging out of the side of the motor on the push rod when you're half way through your 150 mile test ride.  Trust me on this.    [thumbsup]

Oh boy... yeah I dont want that.  Anyone have any idea what the torque values on the 1100 are?  I read that the 900 hub nut is around 130ftlbs... I would assume about the same for the 1100 but I dont want to strip it either. 
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: He Man on June 13, 2010, 09:40:37 AM
Since your bike is brand new, if you had a decent impact gun, you could REMOVE it without a clutching holding tool.

just buy this
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc117/dalesdeadbugs/DSCN1074.jpg)

itll pay for itself, especially since you need one that fits 12T and 48T, im not sure if the number of teeth are the same on the clutch drum, if it is, you can use the stock plates. if not then no go.

since your bike is brand new, im sure it being in gear + rear brake should work. But theres always the likelyhood of it not.

PMed you about the clutch pack.
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 10:10:37 AM
FML & Idiot Question

So I just put the bearing (new) into the EVR pressure plate and because I'm stupid and was doing it wrong, I manage to knock the seal off the bearing.  I put it back in but it ain't perfectly in there, there's a tiny gap in two places between the seal and the inner roller.  The bearing rolls fine but it *could* be a place for clutch dust to get into the bearing.  Here's the idiot question: Am I screwed or do you guys think it's okay? 
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Speeddog on June 13, 2010, 10:20:55 AM
Replace the bearing.

When you install the new one, push on the outer race only.

Quote from: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 10:10:37 AM
FML & Idiot Question

So I just put the bearing (new) into the EVR pressure plate and because I'm stupid and was doing it wrong, I manage to knock the seal off the bearing.  I put it back in but it ain't perfectly in there, there's a tiny gap in two places between the seal and the inner roller.  The bearing rolls fine but it *could* be a place for clutch dust to get into the bearing.  Here's the idiot question: Am I screwed or do you guys think it's okay? 
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: mattc7 on June 13, 2010, 11:39:50 AM
put the pressure plate in the oven for a few minutes, the heat causes expansion, so the bearing slides right in, no need for pushing it in.

New bearing is a must. if it fails, you're going to have to replace alot more
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: mattc7 on June 13, 2010, 11:39:50 AM
put the pressure plate in the oven for a few minutes, the heat causes expansion, so the bearing slides right in, no need for pushing it in.

New bearing is a must. if it fails, you're going to have to replace alot more

Dude... why the hell didn't I think of that?  Going to try it right now!   The stock bearing only has 16mi on it... think I could just move it over to the new plate?
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: mattc7 on June 13, 2010, 12:01:40 PM
you can, but it's alittle harder to get the stocker out undamaged (heat doesn't do all the work there, but helps)
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Amlethae on June 13, 2010, 12:13:43 PM
350deg F.... 10min.... popped right out with a simple push of my thumb.  Thanks mattc7!!!  [beer]
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install w/o holding tool... any tricks?
Post by: Amlethae on June 18, 2010, 10:30:38 AM
Well finally got the clutch hub nut off with the Motion Pro tool and an impact wrench.

But now the hub won't come out.  Any tricks to this part?
(http://www.theatresm.com/DucatiStuff/ClutchHubStuck.JPG)
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: He Man on June 18, 2010, 10:53:52 AM
any luck on just yanking it yet?
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: mattc7 on June 18, 2010, 10:54:23 AM
Pull?

There's nothing else holding it on, just gotta slide it off.

The hub is only held on by that nut. There's no reason why it shouldn't come right out.  Put a spring bolt/cap back on opposing and use them to grip your fingers on if you can't slide it, but there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: Desmo Demon on June 18, 2010, 11:00:22 AM
Quote from: mattc7 on June 18, 2010, 10:54:23 AM
Put a spring bolt/cap back on opposing and use them to grip your fingers on if you can't slide it, but there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to
To help it along, you can spray a little WD-40 on the shaft at the spines to give it a little lube to help it slide and if it is stuck for any reason, lightly tap the hub with a rubber mallet at various points along its perimeter.

Why are you changing the clutch? That basket and hub look new.
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: Amlethae on June 18, 2010, 11:09:35 AM
Yeah no luck yet.  I'm changing the clutch because I've got a beautiful EVR slipper to put on and as frustrated as I get with this stuff, I really love working on cars/bikes.

I'll try the rubber mallet idea and the wd40... I also had the thought that maybe I'd put the pressure plate on it upside down with the spring-caps and use that to get a grip on the sucker.  So lots of ideas, we'll see where we get.

Thanks for the help!  [beer]
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: Amlethae on June 18, 2010, 11:28:52 AM
Alright, the pressure plate idea kind of worked... now I'm still stuck with the hub proper on the shaft... ugh

 Any ideas?

Pic:
(http://www.theatresm.com/DucatiStuff/ClutchInnerHubStuck.JPG)
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: He Man on June 18, 2010, 12:05:26 PM
keep yanking, its just rubber backed piece. use a screw driver to persuade it if u have to, your not going to use that part ever again anyway.
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: Amlethae on June 18, 2010, 12:35:03 PM
Yeah... tried getting a screw driver under it... no go.  Tried using pliers on those fins, no budge.  Tried using the motion pro to clamp on the out edge down in the basket, no luck.  Tried heat on the shaft, no go.  Tried hammering, nope.

So I'm no where further along than I was .... this is a real pregnant dog.  [bang]
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: Amlethae on June 18, 2010, 02:37:17 PM
Seriously still stuck at this point.  What the hell is going on?  Everything I find says it should slide right off, but this thing ain't moving no matter what I do, seriously, not even a centimeter movement off the shaft.  Does anyone have any ideas at all?  Please please help!  [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: mattc7 on June 18, 2010, 03:04:21 PM
since it's trash at this point anyway, drill it out.  I don't remember the last time I saw a clutch hub split without someone trying to split it.

cut it off!



Or, soak it in WD40, apply even more head, and see if you can wedge something between the hub and the basket to try and get the hub started.

I've never seen that get stuck before.
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: Amlethae on June 18, 2010, 04:31:04 PM
Well I got it off!  Yay!  I managed to use the Motion Pro holding tool to pry/push it out.  So I got the new EVR basket in... annnnnnnnnd now for the next problem:

The supplied EVR hub nut is too small for the shaft.  Photo:
(http://www.theatresm.com/DucatiStuff/ClutchNuts.JPG)

On the left is the EVR supplied nut, on the right is the stocker.  Also the supplied washer is too small.

Is it bad to just reuse the stock nut?  Anyone know where I can buy just the EVR 25mm nut & washer?

Wonder what the next problem will be  [bang]
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: ducpainter on June 18, 2010, 04:35:43 PM
re use the stock nut with red loctite.

Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Help! Hub won't come out!! (Page 2)
Post by: Amlethae on June 18, 2010, 04:42:21 PM
Looks like the stock nut won't work because it's too tall.  The pressure plate buts right up against the nut and doesn't go all the way down like it's supposed to... so I'm going to need to get the proper nut... bugger!!  Ugh how fast can someone get me one??????!
(http://www.theatresm.com/DucatiStuff/ClutchNutHeight.JPG)

UPDATE: New one arriving on Monday *hopefully*
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Done... But EVR hub nut doesn't fit
Post by: He Man on June 18, 2010, 05:31:38 PM
didnt u get this from belissimoto, maybe you should ask them whats up with the nut....maybe they sent you the wrong one.
Title: Re: Clutch removal/install... Done... But EVR hub nut doesn't fit
Post by: rockaduc on June 19, 2010, 12:31:35 AM
This project is starting to sound like a royal cluster-makesthebeastwithtwobacks.  I hope it ends well.