Ducati Monster Forum

I finally got time to do surgery on the filters

Special thanks to RB, Langanobob, and dlearl476, who contributed brand-new filters for this tomfoolery!

FYI ALL PHOTOS ARE THUMBNAILS, CLICK FOR BIG-ASS PICS:

(Group shot of the victims:)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0001.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0001.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0024.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0024.jpg)


HiFlo HF153
K&N KN153
Baldwin B7292
Fram PH6019
Parts Unlimited 01-0066
Perf-Form OF-0008

All of this took place in my high-tech forensic laboratory (I love Harbor Freight):
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0011.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0011.jpg)

Tools:
Handheld bandsaw
60 lb table vise (sans table)
5 lb electronic postal scale, accurate to 0.1 oz.
Beer

Summary:

What I was looking at here was filter construction.  Filter performance is much trickier to measure, esp since I don't have the setup to run fluid testing.  I was more interested in what is inside these filters.  All filters perform well within some limitations, and obviously we all want the best flowing, highest filtration, lowest rate of failure.  I can't answer the first two here, but I think construction affects rate of failure and you can learn a lot by poking around inside them (or just gutting them and taking pictures...)

There weren't a LOT of surprises.  All of the filter elements are about 2" (47-51mm) except for the Fram, coming in at 42mm.  The backflow diaphragms varied from a sub-1mm flat piece of rubber to the 5mm thick monster in the Baldwin.  You will NEVER get backflow in a Baldwin filter, that's my guess.  Additionally, all of the filters had metal ends with metal crimped edges.  That is a big difference than some of the paper/glued ends I've seen on some car filters (cough cough.. Fram..cough)

One big "AHA!" moment was figuring out that the HiFlo and K&N are the same filter.  Period.  Except for the red dyed element and the nut on the K&N, the two could have rolled off the same assembly line.  The filter elements are identical except for the dyed filter media.  The diaphragm, spring, base plate -- all identical.  The base plates both have the same tool marks, the filters have the same stamp/weld spots.  I would stake my legal career on this.  They are the same filter.  Period.  And this is not difficult to see -- the other filters' components vary significantly from each other (except for the Parts Unlimited and Fram, which are probably both made by Fram/Fiamm).

Unsurprisingly, the Fram filter was crap.  I say this from a lifetime of being disappointed with Fram filters for cars and trucks.   I would not use this filter unless you have no other choice.  The backflow diaphragm is absurdly tiny, the element itself is paper, and so small.  The filter construction seems decent though.  The Parts Unlimited is identical, except that they used a taller element -- but other than the height, the elements are identical, same tool marks, same bends.  I doubt either will fail on you with short mileage, but I would not plan to take these to the track or use them for significant amounts of time.  I could not believe the backflow diaphragms in these filters though.  Pathetic.

The Baldwin filter was both impressive and disappointing.  They use a paper filter element, which is fine, but is not as good as modern materials [[**edit I've been informed that the Baldwin filter uses a composite poly and paper element]].  On the other hand, the filter's construction was remarkably solid.  It has more convolutions than all of the other filters (folds per inch).   The backflow diaphragm is monstrous, by far the heaviest of the lot coming in 0.3 oz and more than 4mm thick.  Compare that with the Fram/Parts Unlimited diaphragm which did not even register on my scale and is less than 1mm thick. (a postal scale, accurate to 0.1 oz).  Maybe I need to pull out my old finger-postal scale.

One comment about filter medias:  I don't have the ability to test the actual materials. Poly and composite filter media has fibreglass, which glistens under light so you can quickly tell which filters use poly or composite (which is poly and paper together).  Also, when wet with oil, they do not change color like paper since they are not real fibers to absorb fluid.  They are also generally superior to paper.  Filter paper is pretty good stuff and comes in a variety of qualities/strengths so I wouldn't automatically discount a filter using paper versus more modern poly.

I also weighed the various components to get an idea where the weight lay.  The lightest filter was the Fram/Parts Unlimited at 8.8 oz.  I thought this was odd at first since the PU filter is about 0.25 inches taller, but opening it I saw why.  The outer shell + bottom plate is the bulk of the weight.  I think the chromed surface of the Fram made it a bit heavier.  The heaviest was the K&N at 10.8 oz which isn't surprising given they spot weld a nut on the top.  And it's not really a nut, it is a pressed-metal cap with a nut-like hex at the top.  For each filter, I measured the element height (they all had the same diameter), weighed the element, the diaphragm, and then the "shell" which is the completely outer shell including the bottom plate (minus some metal from my bandsaw).

One thing I don't comment on is the spring.  All of these filters have a spring behind the element which pushes the element against the baseplate.  This helps with sealing the backflow diaphragm.  I examined all of the springs and they all look sufficient.  That's all I have to say.

Another thing I couldn't do too much with is the bypass spring/valve.  All oil filters have a bypass mechanism in the top of the element which allows oil to go thru - unfiltered - if the oil pressure inside the filter is too high.  This is often the result of a dirty filter, but can be caused by other things like a surge in pressure.  Testing this would require more than I have the ability to do right now.  Ducati filters are supposed to have a bypass at about 8 psi. 

I also decided to rate each filter with a letter grade. This is totally unscientific and based on my unprofessional opinion of the filter's CONSTRUCTION and my examination of COMPONENT QUALITY only, nothing else.  I kept in mind my experience with a Ducati factory filter, which I assign an "A" to.  

Here is the data, accompanied with photos:

Hi Flo HF153
Weight: 10.2 oz
Element:  51mm tall, composite media (poly or poly + paper)
Element:  3.1 oz
Shell: 6.4 oz
Diaphragm: 0.2 oz
Rating:  B+.  Very good overall, quality welds, thick baseplate.  Bypass mechanism is solid, poly filter has a lot of convolutions, and backflow diaphragm is very good.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0002.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0002.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0012.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0012.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0013.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0013.jpg)

Parts Unlimited 01-0066
Weight: 8.8 oz
Element: 51mm tall, paper filter media
Element: 2.8 oz
Shell: 5.6 oz
Diaphragm: 0 (less than 0.1 oz)
Rating:  C-.  This filter is reasonably well built, but the paper filter media with a lower number of folds and the pathetic backflow diaphragm means it can't score high.  The construction isn't bad, but the components are less than stellar.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0003.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0003.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0014.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0014.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0015.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0015.jpg)

K&N KN153
Weight: 10.9 oz
Element: 51mm tall, composite media (poly or poly + paper)
Element: 3.1 oz
Shell: 7.1 oz
Diaphragm: 0.2 oz
Rating:  B+.  Same as the HiFlo.  Very good overall, quality welds, thick baseplate.  Bypass mechanism is solid, poly filter has a lot of convolutions, and backflow diaphragm is very good.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0004.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0004.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0018.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0018.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0019.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0019.jpg)

Perf-Form OF-0008
Weight: 8.9 oz
Element: 47mm tall, composite media (poly or poly + paper) (Their website claims 100% poly)
Element: 2.7 oz
Shell: 5.6 oz
Diaphragm:  0.1 oz
Rating:  B-.  Good overall, quality welds, heavy baseplate.  Bypass mechanism is solid, poly filter has a lot of convolutions, and backflow diaphragm is good but lighter than the HiFlo or KN.  Perf-Form has a lot of info about their filter media on their website.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0007.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0007.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0020.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0020.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0021.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0021.jpg)

Baldwin B7292
Weight: 9.8 oz
Element: 48mm tall, paper media
Element: 2.4 oz
Shell: 6.7 oz
Diaphragm: 0.3 oz
Rating:  A-/B+.  The only downside of this filter is the paper media, but I might be wrong about that, it needs to have its flow rate tested.  It is a VERY dense fold filter, with a very significant number of convolutions.  The Element is shorter than the others, but by about 6-7% which can be made up by the folds.  The diaphragm in this filter is something to behold.  I would use this filter any day.

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0008.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0008.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0016.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0016.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0017.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0017.jpg)

Fram PH6019
Weight: 8.8 oz
Element: 42mm tall, paper media
Element: 2.5 oz
Shell: 5.9 oz
Diaphragm: 0 (less than 0.1 oz)
Rating:  D+.  This filter is reasonably well built like the similar Parts Unlimited, but the MUCH shorter paper filter media with a lower fold count and the pathetic backflow diaphragm means it can't score high.  The construction isn't bad, the baseplate is good, but the components are crap.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0009.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0009.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0022.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0022.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0023.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0023.jpg)


Comparing the K&N and HiFlo side by side:
Top of elements:
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0025.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0025.jpg)
Their diaphragms are indistinguishable:
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0026.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0026.jpg)
Filter elements are identical except for color.   Tool marks, welds, everything in the same place.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0027.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0027.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0028.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0028.jpg)
Base plates are identical.  Same welds.  Side view of the diaphragms.  Very good quality.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0029.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0029.jpg)

Comparing the Parts Unlimited and Fram.  
Baseplates are identical, diaphragms are identical, but what is up with the elements?
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0030.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0030.jpg)

PU version is 51mm tall, the Fram is 9mm shorter.  Both look the same otherwise, same construction.  I would say the filter elements are well constructed, but are not high-tech poly, they are clearly paper.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0031.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0031.jpg)

Baldwin vs Fram

The Baldwin is only 48mm but towers over the Fram 42mm.  The Baldwin filter is built like a tank, but comes in very light.  The element is paper, but it could be poly.  The number of convolutions is very high, over twice the number in the Fram.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0032.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0032.jpg)

Baldwin monster diaphragm vs Fram's condom-thickness version
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0033.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0033.jpg)

This is all 6 diaphragms in order: Hiflo, KN, Perf-Form, Baldwin, PU, Fram.  You can barely see the last two.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0035.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0035.jpg)


This is my Ducati factory Filter I cut a while back.  I did not weigh or measure it except for the element.  Just for reference:

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0362.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0362.jpg)

Filter element is 51mm
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0363.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0363.jpg)

Well constructed inside.  
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0364.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0364.jpg)

Heavy diaphragm and unusual metal spring retainer for it.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0371.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0371.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0372.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0372.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0373.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0373.jpg)

Impressive !

Dolph     :)

Wow! Thanks for the filter info.  You should cross post this in Tech.

Wow Dude.  VERY insightful and impressive!  Thanks for your efforts.... [thumbsup]  PM sent

I'm thinking this needs to be enshrined in the FAQ

Great write up and very informative.

We need to get an amsoil filter added to this list :p  I would so donate one if I wasn't jobless and broke as hell right now.

If ppl want to send me more filters I will do another batch. 

Monkey said he had a real Fiamm somewhere and I'd love to see if it really is the same as the Fram.  I also have a box of Athena filters somewhere. 
 
I might have a Citroen filter too but I doubt anyone uses too many of those over here.

I'd like to have the setup to do at least flow testing but oh well.

As I remember, the biiiiiig issue with the Fram was the inability of the filter media to withstand Ducati oil pressure (up to 6 bar), sending the media through the engine and possibly causing sudden engine death.  Fram was a quality filter until sometime around 1990 when they were bought by Allied Signal.

used or clean?

Ill take used ones if you poke a hole in the top and drain it really well...

   Very Good, Thanks for making the effort. Answers a few questions and confirms a few beliefs... looking forward to more!

Howie, I've never even heard of someone using the Frams at all!

The guts of the Fram seemed on par with the rest construction-wise.  I mean the element itself.  However, the tiny paper filter with a small number of folds and the shitty diaphragm made it a no go for me.

I've never seen anyone using those filters in the wild though.  The PH6019 part number has been around for ages.

Wow - thanks for doing this.

As I recall, there was an oil change tutorial, maybe on TOB, that demonstrated a filter change with a Fram as the demo filter.  Howie, I remember the same as you about the Allied-Signal buyout of Fram and decline in filter quality. I don't think it was limited to Duc filters and included their whole filter line.

Nice work Ducatiz. I work in Research and Development for a filtration company and I've had experience with most of the companies that you tested there. The term you were looking for in regards to number of folds is called, pleat count. If you want to make another comparison, measure the depth of the pleats, length of media, number of pleats. You can then calculate your effective media area. The area of the media plays a role in how well the filter performs, and the pressure drop across the element. There is a sweet spot, more media is good but too much is bad. It depends on the media as well as application.

Your analysis of the media by looking at it is close but not always true. The media is getting pretty high tech, but I can't talk about that...sorry but I work on a lot of media development and I'm sworn to secrecy.

You're correct about the springs...they all work fine.

I'm not a fan of Amsoil oil but I can tell you that their oil and air filters are the best because of the media they use. The media is made by another company and no one else has anything that performs as well. I recommend cutting one of those open as well.

As far as your flow tests that you would like to perform, I see thousands of results from those. I see all of the efficiency, capacity, pressure drop , etc. tests on a daily basis. Unfortunately, I can't talk about them. My above paragraph is my little secret about the best media out there.

I could say some things about air filters too ;D For starters, don't use K&N unless it's a race motor only. The media is nothing but a rock catcher. I use it in my racebikes but that's it. Expect shorter engine life. If you are using one...be sure to keep that sucker oiled.

Nice work [beer]

Got a couple of emails asking if I wanted other filters -- yes.

here are some I am interested in:

AmSoil
Wix/NAPA
Ducati factory (different part #s -- different suppliers)
UFI (also one of the suppliers for the Ducati factory filter)
Champion (common in UK/Europe)
Athena (also one of the suppliers for the Ducati, I have some just can't put my hands on them)

I published a cross-reference list ages ago. (see below, I found it..)  It is (was) a fairly long list of filters with the same specs as the Ducati filter -- size, pressure, etc.  But some of the filter model #s might be dated, so don't go hog wild looking for them:

US available: (near exact, works fine)
Purolator ML16829C (was FC 103 or OC 5)
AC Delco FX0011 (was X4A)
Motorcraft EFL 47
NAPA: 1352 (1352NAPA and 551352 on the box)
Cooper Z64

Non US:
UFI 23.105.00
Champion H101
Powertrain FL125
Fiaam FT4654, FT 4847 or PA7059
Purflux LS187
Halfords HOF216
Tecafilter Ref OC5
Technocar R12, R72, R434
Knecht OC 5
TJ FB2094
Mann & H W712/9, W712/11
Unipart GFE 201

my next task is to unroll the elements and do some better measurements.  i figured i might also be able to tell more about the materials.


thanks!

Amsoil on it's way to you.

Greatly appreciated ! [clap] [popcorn]

I was buying Fram filters for my Honda Civic for a while.  That little rubber grip stuff on the end is nice.  One day the counter guy asked if I really wanted that filter.  He showed me a few they had cut open and the Fram was obviously inferior.   Since then I get Wix for the car and Ducati OEM for the bike.

Scott

very nice work!!
Thank you for the impressive analysis.

Ducatitiz,this may be of some help to you,
http://tobycreek.org/oil_filters/ducati.shtml (http://tobycreek.org/oil_filters/ducati.shtml)
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html (http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html)
later..RS

Sorry RS...

 [laugh]

I Love little tidbits of info like this, not so much slamming on Fram (which seem to be universally acknowledged as horrible filters) but there it is.

Ditto the PVC discussion.

Fram just might make high quality filters for the OEM, or not, dunno.  Back when I was working on BMW cars OEM filters were made by both Purolator and Mann.  The aftermarket Purolator filters for those cars were, well, crap.  When in doubt, use OEM.  Otherwise, filter your choices by using sources like Toby Creek, Cal Sci and this board.  Saving a couple of bucks on an inferior product just ain't worth it in the long run.

Oh!  I LOVE bad puns!!!  [thumbsup]

Interesting... What exactly are you seeing in the K&N that makes you say that? I'm _guessing_ it's a coarser filter than the OEM paper one, but I recall reading that an oiled cotton filter just works differently, in that it relies on the oil grabbing the fine particles rather than the filter working as a barrier that stops them "fitting through". There used to be a website with a writeup of a test where they fed some fine dust (maybe talcum powder?) through a selection of motorcycle air filters and measured the flow rate/pressure drop across them, as well as the volume of dust that made it through the filter. The somewhat surprising result was that the OEM Ducati paper filter flowed more air (ie lower pressure drop) when brand new, but dropped below the air flow of the K&N when only a little dirty, and for 85% or so of the useful life it flowed less air than the K&N while only filtering marginally more dust...

FWIW, I've got ~250,000km (about 160k miles) on my motor with a K&N air filter (I put it in at the first 20,000km service). The motor is still running strong - or at least as strong as you'd expect an asthmatic air cooled two valve low compression 750 motor to run ;-) It rattles and clunks a bit, but nothing unexpected from an 11 year old 270,000+ km old motor...

I clean and re-oil it reasonably regularly - not as regularly as my 5000km (3k mile) oil changes, but probably at least every 10,000km or ~twice a year...

big

I am trying to order more Baldwin filters for my bike, as she needs an oil change and i donated my last filter for this great cause.
As i was talking to my friend that has a Baldwin account, he mentioned i may need to order a case of them because they aren't stocking them(not sure why).
Would anyone like to go in on a case of these filters? Depending on interest, i don't need a case, will determine how many filters we each get out of a case, and cost. I will check on shipping costs for filters, or arrange local exchanges.

Please PM me if interested so we don't clog up this thread.

RB

very cool thread i always enjoy reading things like this.

Even with out flow diagnosis its a great read,
whats next on the list of things to break open and scrutinize?  :)

It seems that Mobil 1 has a filter with the same quality as the Amsoil.

fasterblkduc : are You the new George?

The Mobil1 filter isn't new but they don't make one for Ducatis

this is pretty cool...

offhand, here are a couple of sites that have done the same thing, but for suzuki/honda filters... construction seems to carry over btwn brands though

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html (http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html)

http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml (http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml)

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/Specsheets/TSB_oil_filter_particle_size.pdf (http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/Specsheets/TSB_oil_filter_particle_size.pdf)

Here is an interesting Amsoil document about media.

Awesome thread and thanks for the hard work.

What brand of filter is the Ducati OEM ones?

that's the guy that gave me the idea a long time ago.  I cut mine open the same way he did.


UFI and Athena make them.  UFI has made Ducati oil and air filters for ages.  I don't know if Athena does anymore, but they still make them under their own name.  I have one I am going to cut open eventually.

Filters I'd like to/plan to do later:

Champion
Athena
UFI
Fiamm (which is Fram's international partner, but I know the filters are not the same)
Purolator (maybe, if someone can show me they are different than Fram's PH6019)

next time i change mine, i can prob send you a used oem one... i'll see how much oil i can drain out of it.

might be a bit more interesting than normal because i run a magnet on it... should be interesting to see how much sludge actually will accumulate due to the magnetism

I'm not cutting used ones.  I posted pics of an OEM filter with magnets a few years ago.  I can derby.  It picked up a good bit of swarf but it was TINY bits. 

ah, kk, thought i read that would be ok with used filters if they were really well drained.

and those pics would be cool, thanks :D

I think I did this in 06-07?

The magnets are neodymium type, 1.5" x 0.5" x 3/16".  I put 3 on the filter, ran it for about 1200 miles.  The bike was fairly new at the time, an '05 S2R and it was the 2nd or 3rd oil change for the bike.

Thumbnails:  click for large.

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0362.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0362.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0363.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0363.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0364.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0364.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0366.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0366.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0367.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0367.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0368.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0368.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0369.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0369.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0371.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0371.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/th_CIMG0375.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/ducatifiltersurgery/CIMG0375.jpg)

Hey, just in case, following filters also fit Ducati:

Bosch 0 451 103 139 or P3139[same filter], 0 451 103 129, same internal specs, one is 3 mm longer than the other[73mm vs 76mm]

Peugeot OEM# 1109 A2, AM 223 105 A, 1109 79, 1109 63, 1109 73

Mann W7129

Renault 770 141 5048

All these filters have 16 x 1.5mm thread

Need has a dog's face, that's a saying here in Panama and since no dealer, I had to start playing around the interwebs and my ESItronic and found this info...also found that some MB spark plugs also are a fit for our DesmoDue motors, the YR ; 7DC+ from Bosch
Anyways I've posted in the "Alternatives to Ducati parts" thread ...

Thanks for the info -- I wonder if those part #s are available in the USA or elsewhere.  Many companies will use region-specific part #s based on supplier.

The 10 digit Bosch numbers are available worldwide ... The P3139 is a US specific # though ... Will try to post specs for these filters as soon as I get my laptop back ...

I found them.

ALl of them are spec for the Citroen 2CV  ... LOL

It really is true, Ducati snagged that 2CV filter ... Citroen collectors everywhere must love Ducati

Also, I posted in the "alternatives to Ducati ..." the spark plugs for the BMW F800R can be used on DesmoDue engines since they are a direct replacement for the Champion RC4G ..[whatever at this time] and DCPR8E[IX] ...

And BTW, Citroen collectors, STOP buying our filters, you're making them expensive for us !!!

I will be shutting down my photobucket account due to them turning into a-holes and cutting my storage space in half after i paid a year's fees in advance last year.

I'll move the pix somewhere and update the links.

PB mongrels!

They need a new company motto!

Photobucket, destroying Internet forums the world over!

Being the greedy bastard that I am, I had always wished you'd done a ducati OEM filter as well for reference.

I did a used one.  Photos are posted.

The main issue with the Ducati factory filters is that they are outsourced to Fiamm or Athena and change over time.  I have early 1980s factory filters with the old school DUCATI logo, early 2000s and current models.  The old one weighs the least, early 2000s weighs the most.