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http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/06/28/14548891.html (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/06/28/14548891.html)

 :-[

Sad sad sad.

So did the bike rear end the car?

That's what I was thinking. Really sad. For the family of the girl and father and the woman driver. I'm sure she feels awful. I'm sure the Dad wasn't expecting someone to stop in the middle of the road and he may have not even seen the ducks ahead. Sad.

it was the highway. who stops on the highway dead cold hard on the brakes for ducks? you know theres like 100 cars behind you going at the same speed your going. It was a really really dumb decision on part of the driver. You dont slam the brakes on when you see something, you either suck it up and run it over or go  around it if you know theres no cars around you.

exactly.. hope she serves time..

The same thing happened years ago when I was in highschool, some woman slammed on the brakes to avoid a groundhog, causing a massive pileup involving an 18 wheeler and multiple cars.  Numerous deaths ensued, and I believe she did get prison time.

Who said she slammed on the brakes? Maybe the rider wasn't paying attention. You may be correct but I think you're judging too quickly.

True, the article did not make mention whether she slammed on the brakes, but it did say that it's unlawful there to stop on a highway, as it is in the States.  And for good reason.  The real sad part of this is that this was an avoidable accident.  The motorcyclist should have been paying better attention, and at the same time the driver of the car should NOT have stopped for the ducks.  Very sad, my heart goes out to the morther.

Big +1 ^^

I ran over a Squirrel one day.

Felt bad for the rest of the day.

Dolph      :(

I almost bit it the other day....I was coming around a tight blind corner on my way to work.  As I near the apex of the corner, here comes a car going around in the opposite direction.  Then she swerves into my lane to avoid a dead raccoon on the road.  I was able to get the bike up, slow down  and avoid her.  But the rest of the day I was wondering why you would drive into an oncoming lane of traffic, around a blind corner to avoid an already dead animal????

Last month I came around a corner on the freeway and nailed a pigeon!

It was like slow motion...thump...I felt like a jerk for the day  :'(

Try doing that with a full grown male/tom turkey. :P I'll be taking some Advil right about now. [thumbsup]

well we all have to make the decision when the choice comes.

1. stop for the dog/cat/squirrel to avoid killing it in the road and feel good about that, but in the process kill and main drivers behind you and live with that for the rest of your life.

or

2. run over and kill the dog/cat/squirrel and feel bad about that and not kill and maim drivers behind you and feel good about not killing some 4 year old and a family.

it seems that many drivers would rather not kill the animal and take out a family in its place.  which is truly pathetic.

In the instant that someone is about to hit/avoid an animal, I don't think they are thinking about taking out a family. That's
a helluva stretch.  ;)

instructions from a country girl I once dated

you keep going...

brace and flinch for the thud and crunch

bless yourself and tell the good lord you're sending one home to him

do not look in rear-view

then she added it worked for animals as well as cheating boyfriends

Hearing stories like this makes me wonder how I am going to handle the situation of my kids wanting to ride as they get older.  I love to ride, and my children (as young as they are) know it.  I just don't know what my answer is going to be the first time the topic comes up involving them and a motorcycle.  My wife wouldn't get on a motorcycle for anything.  We are on opposite sides of the fence on the topic, but both believe that we should neither push anything on them, or deny them the opportunity to take part in something they might enjoy (to an extent of course).   Just the thought of riding with my daughter and something happening to her, be it her fault, my fault, or someone else's fault, turns my stomach. 

I agree with you on this, I doubt it was a choice between the two.  More on the lines of most drivers pay more attention to wildlife than motorcycles.  Whether she looked back or not before she stopped, at some point beforehand, she had to know other vehicles were behind her.  I wonder if the case would have been the same if it were a semi truck following.  I would guess that there would have been a couple of flattened mallards.

sorry but you are driving a 4000lb car with other cars around you, every action you do potentially can kill someone. and i doubt that a semi behind you would have changed the situation most people are just not aware of their surroundings period.

Its not a stretch to be aware of your surroundings and realize that if you hit the brakes to avoid hitting a cat, that the people behind you might drive into the back of you.  If you aren't thinking of that, you just aren't paying attention and you have not been checking your mirrors like you should be.  Maybe if people did consider what they were doing when driving there would be less deaths.

^^ No..no. You said a person/people would rather take out a family then an animal, as if it was a premeditated thought.

I'm not even sure what you're all arguing about.

Don't outride your sight line.


Follow at a distance you're able to stop in.


If it was a boulder, tree, or pileup, would it be anyone but the riders fault? I think not.

Because you are a moron.

No, That would put the responsibility in the hands of the rider, and their never at fault.  ;)

^truth.

 car stopped dead in the middle of a highway should be rather easy to stop behind or go around if youre paying any kind of attention.

I don't know, a motorcycle following a car vs. a semi following a car.  Seems to me that would be a totally different situation.  I would think that 500lbs following closely would spark a different reaction than 60000lbs.  The bike being a spec in your mirror that you look right past and the truck filling your mirror up with it's grill.  I see your point though.  It shouldn't matter.  I comes down to people's lack of awareness and consideration.  Unfortunately, it quite possibly was all parties involved in this story.

"The mother of the girl and spouse of the man driving the motorcycle were riding on another motorcycle and witnessed the tragic incident."

I felt bad for the 2 involved in the accident and felt worse for the surviving family members who had to see the whole thing happening...

Dolph just reminded me of an incident I had coming home from work.

I was driving home up Box Canyon (a very smooth, super twisty road) in my pickup when an off-leash dog (big rottie) dashed out into the road chasing a squirrel.  I didn't even have time to hit the brakes. It ran right under the truck and my rear wheel.  It died instantly and I felt like absolute shit until a riding buddy had this to say:

Him: You ok?

Me: I killed a make the beast with two backsing dog! How the make the beast with two backs do you think I feel?!

Him: What if you took your bike to work today?

Me: Huh?

Him: If you were riding, it would be you getting scraped up off the road as well as the dog.  I feel bad that the dog died, but it's his owner's fault, not yours.  Dog shoulda been on a leash or behind a gate.  What if I was riding and one of my boys was on the back?  Dog shoulda been tied up.

My point is this. People only think about themselves and either are too dumb to think about the consequences of their actions, or they just don't care.
  In this case the owner actually told me that he thought it was okay not to have tied up the dog because she had never chased a squirrel into the road before!  [bang]
  It's a busy road!!!! How can you just assume nothing will ever happen?

  In the case of the woman and the ducks, same thing.   >:(  Actually a bit worse.  It's a major highway.  There is traffic all around moving at a high rate of speed.  DON'T JUST make the beast with two backsING STOP DUMBASS!!!

On another note:
If the speed limit is 65mph on a highway and you round a curve, would you honestly expect a car to be stopped in the middle of the road? I mean, really?

You can make statements like this:

...But in real life; traveling on a major thoroughfare; does anyone really expect to come upon a vehicle stopped dead in the road?  I don't think so.

  On back roads and twisties we, as motorcycle riders, are more aware of the dangers that may lie in wait for us around every corner. Therefore we ride with an added sense of alertness and focus, expecting hazards to be in the road.

 Do we ride with the same level of attention and focus on a highway where all the traffic is moving in the same direction?  I know I relax a bit more and just cruise on the highway (unless there is the typical L.A. traffic jam and I'm splitting).

Sorry Dave, but I gotta disagree with ya on this one. 

RIP Dad and Daughter...  Condolences to the family that is left behind.   :'(

I'm sure if a motorcyclist had stopped for ducks and a car had run into the back of it, this would be a very different discussion.

^^^^ +1

It does not matter if it is against the law to stop, every user of the road has the responsibility to leave enough distance between them and the person in front to be able to stop in time. If you rear end somebody, then either you did not leave enough gap, or you were not paying attention.

   I agree, it is the responsibility of the operator to avoid the accident. Here in Colorado You will, at any time, have stopped Tourists, Fishermen, Rocks, Cows,Etc. on 75mph, blind corners, and I'm sure it happens everywhere else. When the driver in front of You intentionally slams on their brakes, to avoid an accident, or to cause one, ( oh, yeah, it happened to Me..) everyone should be able to respond to it with proper following distance and driver awareness,tailgating and distractions will kill You..

If a pedestrian gets hit by a car on a local street the driver is automatically at fault.

If a pedestrian gets hit on a freeway the pedestrian is automatically at fault.

Why, because you would not be able to have efficient flow of traffic at high speed if freeway drivers were on the lookout for pedestrians and traffic from side streets, driveways, etc.

We can ride at very high speeds on the track and we don't even have mirrors on the bikes.

Why, because to ride on the track riders have to follow strict rules about not stopping on the track, etc.

Does it always work?  No. 

Can you ride on the track or freeway at normal track/freeway speeds while being on the lookout for and able to avoid things you would need to be on the lookout for while doing 25mph in a school zone?  No.

Damn. Is that the technique she used to keep her pet Honey Badger fed?

we dont know if they ran into the back. they may have been riding just along and then the car full braked with the motorcycle no where in sight. the bike comes around a corner and bam. we don't know. the cops apparently know enough that they are looking at charging the driver and find no fault with the rider.

 Additionally we have all seen or been involved in a situation where the flow of traffic is moving along at a decent pace and for some reason there is a disabled car in the road (flat tire, accident, ducks crossing……whatever) and the car in FRONT of YOU doesn’t see anything until the last possible moment. When the car in front of you swerves to avoid the “whatever” now you are faced with doing 60 or whatever and you are RIGHT ON TOP of the problem, no warning.

We all rely on the other drivers/riders around us to give us feedback on what THEY see. If the car in front of you slows or brakes you adjust normally by slowing or braking yourself. If they continue at a normal pace, then you continue at a normal pace. But when someone in front of you bails at the last possible moment because they weren’t paying attention they can lead you (unknowingly) into a real OH-SHIT moment.

There is a very short stretch of road locally which has several ponds in close proximity. In the spring it is very common for several mature Canadian geese to leisurely cross the road with many young in tow. It's pretty much clockwork that they stop traffic until they get across.

It may be illegal to stop, but I have a hard time blazing through a line of full-grown geese on the ground and totaling whatever I'm driving or riding....

Look, one night while driving South in Massachusetts, on the highway in front of me, I saw headlights, and thought nothing of it, as the road did a little jog-I figured it was someone in the Northbound lane.


Nope-in MY lane coming right at me.


Was I expecting that? No.


Was I prepared? Yes-I don't let people hang out next to me-I knew the travel lane was open, and I swerved over and continued on my merry way.


Google Highway 30 where it took place-it's about as straight as can be. Clear visibility. Also, to quote the article, "The teenager's mother, riding on one motorcycle behind the car, and her husband and the couple's daughter on another motorcycle, "didn't have time to react" and veer away, he added."


Let me say it again-I don't care what the conditions were, what other people were doing. It's your job to keep you safe.


The real tragedy here is if no one learns anything from this poor family.

RIP.

^^^^
What the rocket surgeon said.

One night I came up on a car stalled out in the center lane of I-680. Light traffic so I had plenty of room to swerve but no other feed back from other drivers swerving and the darkness let me get much closer than I otherwise would have. The retard who was stalled out had no lights on and was just hanging out by his car. It scared the crap out of me, but luckily I was paying attention and swerved around the problem without incident.

It is the rider's responsibility to avoid this stuff. You can't feel smug about being right when you are dead.

The whole situation still sucks though. While it is the rider's responsibility to look out for him/herself the lady in the car is still largely at fault. Not that this will be any comfort to riders' families.

sac

I'm not saying that they couldn't have been more vigilant and possibly avoided it.  The fact that the second bike avoided it would seem to indicate that they could have too if they were more attentive.

I also agree that you can only count on yourself and even then not all the time.

However, just as Keith Code says in his books you only have so much mental capacity to spend at any one time.  He tries to get people to spend less of it on fear but the same principle applies here.  The faster you go, the harder you corner, etc, the less you have to spend on other things.  So, all of us have to sacrifice some attention in certain areas to concentrate on others.  This is why freeways have concrete dividers so you don't have to concentrate on every oncoming car coming into your lane and they don't have driveways dumping directly on to them so you don't have to worry about people backing into the right lane while you are traveling at 65+. 

Do you always have an open lane next to you?  Around me that would be nearly impossible during most times of the day. 

Should you let your guard down?  No.

Can you navigate the SoCal freeways like you would a mine field and maintain 80mph?  No.

I have had to dodge sofas and ladders many times on the freeway so I understand full well what you mean by being vigilant and responsible for my own safety.  But to say that we must drive in such a manner as to be prepared for everything, no matter how unexpected for the given terrain, is not reasonable.  I may get swept up in a tornado here in SoCal but the odds are pretty slim and me buying tornado insurance would be a waste even though it could happen.

Yeah but simply riding within your sight line is all I'm really pushing for here-following distance makes it so much easier to dodge ladders, truck caps, sofas, and sacduc's raccoon.

It seems to me that there's simply not enough information in the news article for us to make concrete judgments on either the rider or car driver in this case.  The police seem to have made their mind up in the rider's favour, hopefully they've had enough evidence to reach that conclusion accurately.

For the most part I side with MrIncredible on this: Ride with your own safety in mind.  Many of us like to push the limits, I know I do (In the car, more than on the bike on which I am still a newb) and I always have to strike a balance between assuming the road to be safe, and knowing it is.

On a blind corner I will not go full speed.  It's not a track, there's every chance someone or something is in the middle of the road trying to kill me.  I know this going in, and I adjust my speed accordingly: faster than I should if I planned on avoiding the hazard entirely, but slower than I would go if I knew for sure it was clear.  On a bike it's the same thing, isn't it?  You have to be aware that there may be hazards, and you either slow down to an absolutely safe speed for things you cannot predict, or you take the risk and hope for the best.

This rider lost out, the car driver was (apparently) at fault.  If the rider was riding for absolute safety he'd have been farther back, more attentive, slower.  He'd have also been in a car or home on the couch.  He took the risk to go riding, he took the risk to ride too fast into a blind corner or too close to the car in front 'cause he evaluated his options and thought he'd probably not see a stopped car or someone braking suddenly, whatever.

We all have this choice to make, and many of us chose to push the limit.  Most of the time it works and we're like tiny buzzing gods, flushed with success and deserving of a fizzy beverage and possibly some fattening food.  Sometimes, and this is the tragedy of our too-short lives, the limit pushes back and we pay the price.

Life is short, and we're all going to die sooner than we'd prefer.  My condolences to the surviving riders in this story, and to the driver of the car.  I don't know exactly how it happened, but there's every possibility I'd have stopped for some ducks too if I thought it was safe.

Ride safe, be aware.  We all live or die by our choices.

Well said. [thumbsup]

See, this is my point.  Why can you go faster on the track?  Because the odds are less that you will encounter something in the middle of the road trying to kill you.  There is still a chance that a corner worker could run out in the middle of a blind corner or a bike in front of you could have just dumped it's oil or a dumb rider just stopped in the middle of the track.  But, if you rode with the expectation that these things might occur at every corner on the track you would be riding no faster than you would in a school zone.

i ran over my first animal when i was a teen. it was a chipmunk. i tried to swerve, but of course it jumped under my tires. i felt bad.

my grandfather, who was riding shotgun, told me to never, ever, ever, swerve to avoid anything smaller than your tires. the chances of having a serious accident are just to great.

since then i have hit a LOT wildlife, and perhaps a stray cat or two...never swerved or stopped for one of them.

but i still feel bad when it happens.

one of my instructors in school said he will not swerve/stop for anything without antlers.

I asked him if the kids in his town knew to hold up Bull-winkle horns when crossing the street...




But yeah, i feel worst for the surviving mother and driver, thats some bad shit to live with.

I was driving with a friend and a possum ran out and I tried to dodge him but actually smashed him on my bumper and he went rolling across the street, it was at night and I was going about 45mph... I was a young aggressive early 20's at the time and my friend was riding shotgun, my attempt to swerve actually made it look intentional so thinking quick on my feet at the moment I made impact with him I pumped my fist and exclaimed, "YEAH! GOT HIM!" My buddy looked at me in disbelief, he said "oh man, you are make the beast with two backsing crazy," he thought I intentionally hit it... it was great, that's all.  [drink]

I remember when my soon to be ex-wife and I went to Fredericksburg, TX for a bed and breakfast thing years ago and coming back into town from a restaurant out in the hills we were the first on the scene of a bad pick up wreck caused by a white tail deer. It had jumped into the road in front of a pick up driven by a young doctor from nearby Kerrville. He veered and went straight into a huge live oak tree. DRT. Dead Right There. It was witnessed by folks driving in the other direction. Made our drive home a little more attentive. :P

fast crash into deer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNO88yqCr5I#normal)

^thats brutal  :o

and way bigger than the tires..

Goddamn deer!!!!!!!  >:(

about 4 yearsago coming back from our weekly Friday meets in LI, west bond on the LIE.. of course his part if the road the lights had burned out, I see my lights shining off of something in the middle lane.. going about 60-70 (in the srt) I realize its the side chrome of an suv.. damn thing was sideways with no lights or hazards on.. I had engh time to swerve..  about 30 feet after I pass it I hear tires screetching and bam.. another car hit it.. this was around 1 am..  ride safe guys

Similar thing happened to me on I-95. It was pouring with barely enough visibility. Just ahead I see a car had spun out and was sitting across the far left lane and half of the right lane. There was a car in the right lane, so I could not turn over and the car behind me had already turned into the medium. The driver, senior, was sitting in shock in his car just staring at the incoming headlights. I was just about ready to kill him when I noticed that I can just enough room to tuen into the medium and onto the grass. Did my stuntman move and ended up in the grass. Immediately called 911 and told them that the guy would die if someone didn't come out to help. I didn't stay to watch so I have no clue what happened to that poor man.

 if any animal wonders onto the road and you can hit the brakes safely then thats fine, but on a Highway thats crazy and just damn dnagerous. I once hit a kangaroo in my car, it was a wet road and I wasnt about to try and swerve, I was doing 110 kph, and jeeps are not known for there handling !!!

Was the driver of the car wrong for having stopped in the middle of the road??  Absolutely. 

Should the biker have been paying more attention to his surroundings (especially with a pillion).  Absolutely, but at the same time it's people like that cager that force us to be as attentive as we are. 

I was out with a buddy a few months ago (me with a passenger) on a curvy road when we came across some jackass in a Subaru parked in the middle of the lane (just past the apex mind you) taking photos of an owl on the damn power lines.  There wasn't enough honking and/or screaming in my reportoir to convince that guy how pissed I was.

We all ride/drive regularly and most of us know people that have been in accidents (other vehicles invoved or not) so we have the good fortune of knowing just how dangerous being on the road is.  All we can do is stay away from ma and pa jackass behind the wheel and make the best of it.

Riding a bike is like working retail:  everyone should have to do it just once to realize just how tough it can be. Ok....that may be a stretch :)

sorry herm, but your post reminded me of this guy from raising arizona  [laugh]
runs over a cute bunny without even slowing down

(http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k346/1baaadco/CoensRaisingArizona.jpg)

i agree with mr.inc on this as well... the moto rider should have been watching more closely, especially with a passenger

rip  :(

Somewhere in the middle of rural Virginia, running down the BRP, Desmolu and I came upon a car parked right in the apex of a blind corner, taking up all of our lane and half the other. One pure reflexes saved us there. They were taking pictures.  If I hadn't been sure there was no way for me to talk to the person without trying to force my size 11 racing alpinestars boots down their throat, I would have stopped to express my displeasure.

Jesus, I would have approached this with the maturation that age brings. I would have pulled in front of him, stopped, and politely informed it that it was against the law to stop on the BRP,  and that no patriotic, law-abiding American would break the law. Moreover, it was dangerous to stop mid-curve.

Now, if my polite tone and persuasive logic did not bring agreement, I would have removed my helmet, grasped it by the chin strap, and smacked him with it.

This happened to my buddy over 4th of July weekend.  Luckily, we had just slowed down to about 30 and he low-sided instead of going over the top.

In our case the deer jumped out at his 3/4, so he couldn't see it when it first came into the road, but since I was behind him I saw it and simply thought to myself, "oh shit, this isn't going to end well".

It didn't, as when the deer got almost even with him, it jumped right into / in front of him.  He sort of laid it down and I saw him, his bike, and the deer slide into a ditch off the side of the road.  I tried to get there fast enough to kill the deer since it looked like it would be good eating and we were going to have to get the pickup to get his bike home. Anyway, I was too slow and the deer ran off.  He got up with just some minor road rash. Bike is in the shop with easily repairable damage.

Damn deer. Stupid animals evolution hasn't yet trained to avoid roads.