First, you guys should know that I won't be actually buying until February of next year, but I really enjoy doing research and test driving as many cars as I can. Second, I'm looking at entry level luxury sedans. I was originally looking at pick-ups, but the wife poopooed the idea when she said that we needed something relatively fuel economic.
Right now I the Acura TL and Cadillac CTS are the frontrunners, mainly because we both like Honda and I really like the CTS. Both are relatively low in price for what they offer. The Beemers and Benzes will be out of range monetarily.
So to recap, I'm looking for luxury under $40K.
I assume from the title it must be new?
Not necessarily. I don't mind buying a 1 or 2 year old pre-loved car.
I would check out the Volvo S60 or S80... or if you could go a little higher ( @ 45k) the Audi A6. When my girlfriend was looking for a new car, we tried all the models you're talking about & I was surprisingly impressed with the Volvo, although she ended up getting an Audi A4 with the 2.0T which handles amazingly well , has a great interior & just enough zoom for her with the 2 litre turbo.
Smart move taking your time & finding just the right car though... Much better than rushing into it & buying something you regret later.
Good Luck !
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 06:24:38 AM
The Beemers and Benzes will be out of range monetarily.
So to recap, I'm looking for luxury under $40K.
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 06:36:32 AM
Not necessarily. I don't mind buying a 1 or 2 year old pre-loved car.
not necessarily suggesting this, but a late model used/cpo bmw 335i can be found for less than that.
The problem from the 3 series is that the back seat is very very small. I have 3 kids to put in the back. For the money I would need to look for a used 5 series instead.
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 06:43:42 AM
The problem from the 3 series is that the back seat is very very small. I have 3 kids to put in the back. For the money I would need to look for a used 5 series instead.
but you're small, unless they aren't yours, the kids should remain fairly midgety.
My brother and wife picked up a BMW twin-turbo (335i? I have no idea) courtesy car a few years ago with 8k on the clock.
they paid well under 40k and got that nice extended BMW warranty where you only have to pay for tires. Oil Changes, brake pads, rotors, god knows what else breaks..........all covered.
Not sure as your driving habits, but also look at diesel passat.
Your car really doesn't have to be family oriented, dude.
You have that minivan.
Yeah, but we need to make sure that all 3 will fit in the backseat just in case we need it. Right now they the Accord is fine. 3 adults should be able to sit somewhat comfortable. When I sat in the backseat of a 330, I had zero leg room, and I'm very short. This car will be mostly used for my wife's work commute and for around town driving, but I would rather keep the people sitting in the back somewhat comfortable.
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 07:08:34 AM
Yeah, but we need to make sure that all 3 will fit in the backseat just in case we need it. Right now they the Accord is fine. 3 adults should be able to sit somewhat comfortable. When I sat in the backseat of a 330, I had zero leg room, and I'm very short. This car will be mostly used for my wife's work commute and for around town driving, but I would rather keep the people sitting in the back somewhat comfortable.
Look at the 335.
It has more legroom than my Jetta.
You are complaining about legroom?
Carlos.........you are five foot three. (don't worry, I am not much taller)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 26, 2010, 07:30:37 AM
Look at the 335.
It has more legroom than my Jetta.
You are complaining about legroom?
Carlos.........you are five foot three. (don't worry, I am not much taller)
but when either of you drive the phonebook adds at least 3 inches.
Honda-made...they still have a culture of authentic pride in product
I see fewer of them stuck on the side of the road dead-shorted
waiting for 24 hour roadside assistance than any other vehicle
Quote from: RAT900 on July 26, 2010, 07:38:19 AM
Honda-made...they still have a culture of authentic pride in product
I see fewer of them stuck on the side of the road dead-shorted
waiting for 24 hour roadside assistance than any other vehicle
I think he mentioned an Acura TL above.
As I know acura is made by Honda..........are they as reliable as a Honda branded/stamped vehicle?
They're made based on the same chassis and I think the Acura engines are basically a tuned version of the same one used in the Accord, which is fantastic in terms of reliability. The reason the TL is a frontrunner is based solely on our experience with our Accord. In 10 years we've had no major issues except for the idle fan crapping out. That's it. The interior is showing its age. The only reason I'm selling it is because if we screw up the interior any more, we won't get what we want for it. Whomever buys it will be getting an extremely reliable car.
I'll be checking out the new TL this weekend. I will be checking the used options as we get closer to February.
TL's are made about 20 minutes from where I live.
Lots of them around. I like them a lot. Kind of reminds me of a Lincoln LS, but better looking and not a make the beast with two backsing ford POS (my dad had a LS........other than it being fast.........it was a POS)
You can even order them in a manual if you want (the Acura).
And the TL's come in AWD!
And when you compare prices, it's much more reasonable compared to the other cars in its class.
For my money, luxo cars should always be purchased used. But, my auto money may be more closely guarded relative to others'. When it comes to cars I am a cheapo , but I don't see the sense in losing 20% or more of the value of your car in the first year when you can buy one in good shape, pre-depreciated.
My .02 on the BMWs - I have always loved them, have tried to buy one on a couple of occasions, but the maintenance has always scared me off. If I ever do buy one, it will be a CPO, or it will come with a comprehensive third-party warranty.
The last one I tried to buy was an e46 3-series that came with a pretty detailed service record - it was the wheel position sensors at $150 a piece (replaced several times), and the xenon headlight (that worked, but had a broken clip) at $1200 (a single headlight) among other things that made me back away. I got the feeling that I would be replacing expensive parts frequently, and these parts would not really affect the overall operation of the car to the point where it was undriveable. Instead, these little, expensive things would be a growing repair bill looming over me, and something that would make it harder to resell if I had to.
Keep in mind that the service department seems to be very liberal when it comes to replacing things under warranty - so if you got one that was covered up to 100k or more, a bimmer may give you many miles of low-cost, headache-free driving.
As far as styling goes, the Japanese makers have supplanted ze Germans in the current generation of cars in my opinion. I would take an M45 over a 5-series any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I like the Lexus IS, but that may not be big enough for your needs.
On top of that, I trust Japanese reliability over German, although I admit I don't have FHE with those brands. If you go with JD Power ratings, you can't go wrong with any Lexus or Infiniti over the last five years (or, ever in the case of Lexus), or MB in the last three years.
So, short answer: a used, low-mileage Infiniti M45. It is probably big enough, they look cool, and appear to be reliable. Happy hunting... [thumbsup]
Wait-did I misread this to say you want a luxury car and to put kids in it? They'll just ruin it.
And if Honda has treated you right, I would definitely go with another of their products.
I was unimpressed with the BMW we had, though the Mercedes has been snazzy so far.
Really-luxury cars ain't worth it.
I just want a step up from our Accord. I'm not looking to get a new 7 series. My wife isn't about keeping up with the Joneses and The TL sounds like a happy medium. I'm also keeping the CTS in the running simply because I really really like it.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 26, 2010, 08:45:09 AM
Really-luxury cars ain't worth it.
I totally agree with this. I love Audi's and think they are beautiful cars but if your not getting a top of the line A6 or A8, S4, or something way higher than your price range than your not getting the best use of your money. The high end of Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are still way ahead of anything else but their "cheap" cars are similar if not worse than Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura plus service and parts still come at high end prices.
My buddy just got an 09 TL and that thing is amazing. Similar ride and feel to an S4. Awesome interior and crazy good paint job.
If I had the money and was looking in your range it would be a TL or an IS250 period.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 26, 2010, 08:45:09 AM
I was unimpressed with the BMW we had, though the Mercedes has been snazzy so far.
Really-luxury cars ain't worth it.
Are BMW's and Mercede's not considered luxury cars now?
Must one step up to a Maserati to reach that status?
shit, my lexus (which I actually don't consider luxury.....it is on par with an Acura) must be an economy.
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 07:56:34 AM
They're made based on the same chassis and I think the Acura engines are basically a tuned version of the same one used in the Accord, which is fantastic in terms of reliability. The reason the TL is a frontrunner is based solely on our experience with our Accord. In 10 years we've had no major issues except for the idle fan crapping out. That's it. The interior is showing its age. The only reason I'm selling it is because if we screw up the interior any more, we won't get what we want for it. Whomever buys it will be getting an extremely reliable car.
I'll be checking out the new TL this weekend. I will be checking the used options as we get closer to February.
That's why I would stay with a HONDA product like an Acura...I have never had one leave me stranded on the side of the road with a mystery shutdown or had one rust-out on me
I just dumped my 2006 Saab convertible...what a POS 3 ring circus of short circuits and rust issues...daughters BMW was another marvel of Brand vs. Reality
My German next door neighbor refuses to buy a German car anymore and warned me away from them...he says they are made poorly by (former) East Germans, Turks and Algerians (and I think I hear German marching music playing late at night coming from his windows)
I really wanted to buy American this year and shopped a LOT trying to convince myself into a Ford Escape for my wife...
I wound up back at the Honda dealership buying her a CRV fully optioned for the same as I would have spent on a Ford.....
but the Honda was in a different league of quality it was apparent throughout...
it was actually saddening because I wanted a US made car again but could not reconcile the delta between the two cars
Quote from: RAT900 on July 26, 2010, 09:15:03 AM
I just dumped my 2006 Saab convertible...what a POS 3 ring circus of short circuits and rust issues...
i never really considered saab a luxury car, and my scandinavian friends just laugh at 'em...
Quote from: RAT900 on July 26, 2010, 09:15:03 AM
I wound up back at the Honda dealership buying her a CRV fully optioned for the same as I would have spent on a Ford.....
but the Honda was in a different league of quality it was apparent throughout...
it was actually saddening because I wanted a US made car again but could not reconcile the delta between the two cars
your cr-v is, in fact, american made (east liberty, ohio)...
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 26, 2010, 09:08:10 AM
Are BMW's and Mercede's not considered luxury cars now?
Must one step up to a Maserati to reach that status?
shit, my lexus (which I actually don't consider luxury.....it is on par with an Acura) must be an economy.
They are considered luxury cars, and I'm saying from having owned some-they aren't worth the additional money. Was that unclear?
Also, around here, a BMW is like driving a Ford Taurus-everyone has one.
Quote from: derby on July 26, 2010, 09:21:18 AM
i never really considered saab a luxury car, and my scandinavian friends just laugh at 'em...
The price tag says differently by normal standards, but I agree.
I'd never own one either. I've heard nothing but trouble.
but then again, I've heard horror stories about VW Jetta's and mine has been bullet proof, but then again it is a TDI and not standard petrol.
Quote from: derby on July 26, 2010, 09:23:21 AM
your cr-v is, in fact, american made (east liberty, ohio)...
I think Derby might be right on this one.
I can't recall what they make at the two plants in Marysville and something Liberty, but CRV might be one of them.
Honda's are more american made then GM's.
Do the research if you don't believe me (not you derby as I am sure you already knew that).
Last I read something like 90% of GM were foreign bought parts.
I can't tell you how many manufacturing facilities around here are 100% honda suppliers.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 26, 2010, 09:24:24 AM
They are considered luxury cars, and I'm saying from having owned some-they aren't worth the additional money. Was that unclear?
Also, around here, a BMW is like driving a Ford Taurus-everyone has one.
It just didn't make much sense to me.
If they aren't worth it, then why did you buy another Mercedes?
agreed on the BMW. Having a brief visit to the Bay Area, lots of Bimma's around.
There are a shit ton around here as well, mostly the 325's and 7-series.
For some reason people skip the 5-series here; no idea why.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 26, 2010, 08:45:09 AM
Really-luxury cars ain't worth it.
Agreed. We have an Infiniti G35xS. Great car, fun to drive, and my wife loves it (she's the primary driver), but I don't see how it delivers any better value than my Xterra. :-\ The Xterra is cheaper and far more versatile. On top of that the G maintenance is too expensive and it takes premium gas. I actually prefer driving the Xterra, although that is probably just because I'm used to it.
I can see a luxury car being worth it if you drive a LOT, but otherwise...meh.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 26, 2010, 09:24:24 AM
Also, around here, a BMW is like driving a Ford Taurus-everyone has one.
+1 I can look out my window and see 4 in my row.
Rat, I still love my Accord. I would keep it if I could get as much as I wanted for it in a few years. As it is, I've owned it for 10 years and it's the little things that are slowly breaking, like the power locks don't work in the back doors. At this rate, the engine will last another 10 years before the first major issue.
My brother-in-law moved to Switzerland and is also unimpressed with the quality coming from Germany. He even said to stay away from VW. Not sure if this is a recent issue or if it's been going on for years.
At this point, a 1 year old preloved TL would be nice. I would also love to find a 2010 TL that went unsold until I get there. I should be able to get a sweet deal for it. At this stage I will be test driving the TL, CTS, Lexus ES and Infiniti M.
I'm sure you've already considered/looked at the new Accords but I want to add my $.02 about them.
My brother's GF just bought a brand new one, she traded up from an older model TL. She got the V6 with all the fixin's and she loves it. That thing is pretty luxury as far as Accords go. If you love the Accord why not go for it and save some cash.
My GF has a 2008 Accord, her second, and she loves it.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 26, 2010, 09:32:53 AM
It just didn't make much sense to me.
If they aren't worth it, then why did you buy another Mercedes?
My mom wanted one.
Quote from: duc750 on July 26, 2010, 10:00:31 AM
If you love the Accord why not go for it and save some cash.
Because I want a step up from the Accord. I can test drive another Accord and compare it apples to apples to what the TL would offer. You would need to buy the top of the line to even compare to the TL and the TL offers a tuned version of the engine with AWD for more $$$ of course.
Sounds like you already know what you want then.
you can easily score a C class Benz for that price, new included. I've always been a fan of Benz and their quality over the last 10 years has gotten better, so much so we are on our third. Go drive one. Oh, I just got an email from them with a 1.9% financing rate being offered on new rides but I don't know what models are included.
Quote from: derby on July 26, 2010, 09:21:18 AM
i never really considered saab a luxury car, and my scandinavian friends just laugh at 'em...
It is too a luxury car...
if you consider time lost not getting to your destination to be a luxury you can afford
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 10:18:51 AM
Because I want a step up from the Accord. I can test drive another Accord and compare it apples to apples to what the TL would offer. You would need to buy the top of the line to even compare to the TL and the TL offers a tuned version of the engine with AWD for more $$$ of course.
If your Accord is 10 years old, you'd be surprised at how it has improved over the year. Test drive a well-equipped V6 Accord and compare that to a TL. You'd be surprised how similar they are. IMO, you are paying a premium for the rebadging. I guess what I am trying to say is don't count out the new Accord.
We have had a great experience with our Altima (94) that we went out and bought a 2007 Altima. We thought about a G35 at that time but couldn't justify the $15K difference.
Quote from: Triple J on July 26, 2010, 09:39:21 AM
On top of that the G maintenance is too expensive and it takes premium gas.
Ever tried running 87 in it?
I run 87 in my Lexus and experience no issues even though it recommends a higher octane.
Mileage is consistent from low to high octane.
every tank or two I'll run some injector cleaner through and be done with it.
I think the gas octane debate is a joke.
I recall a write up a long time ago from Chris Kelley about it.
Run the lowest octane you can til the motor starts "pinging"
I'll be checking out the Accord regardless. I have time until we're ready to actually buy. What I will not get is another Toyota, but not because of the reasons you would think. The nearest Toyota dealer updated their service center, which means they think they're better than what they are. I'm not even going to consider a Camry or Avalon. Even the Lexus has suffered from me being pissed with the Toyota dealer cause I know that in a pinch I could take it to either one and I refuse taking it there.
I will look it the Altima just because I can. My idea is to check all the Japanese brands, including the low and high end, except for Toyota. There's a reason I'm doing this research 6 months before buying. I might skip Mazda just because my family has had some bad experience with them. I will also try the Germans, even though I'm probably not going that route. And before people start gripping about the German cars, not only is it the quality questions raced, but also the fact that they are considerably more expensive than their Japanese counterparts. They would need to be that much more impressive to even consider them in my final decision.
I'll be narrowing it down to 3 cars and then have my wife test drive them. Once we decide on the brand, then we will check the used inventory and finally we will check the out the door prices and all the "local" dealers. That will appease all my "what ifs".
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 26, 2010, 10:59:33 AM
I recall a write up a long time ago from Chris Kelley about it.
Run the lowest octane you can til the motor starts "pinging"
I thought about it. I don't know enough about how modern engine electronics work...but I think the engine will compensate (retard timing?) for reduced octane in order to prevent pinging (unlike our motos), so you wouldn't hear it. In a $40K car, I'll spend the extra few bucks at each fill-up to follow their recommendations.
if you're worried about leg-room, i personally did not find the TL to be very spacious when i rode in the back of my buddy's, but YMMV.
what i really like in the Acura line-up is the RL. why not a CPO one of those? i only sat in one briefly but i thought it was great-looking and really felt "luxurious".
also, i'll throw in a wildcard: Hyundai Genesis? we bought a Hyundai XG350 about 5.5 yrs ago b/c we needed a car quickly and weren't sure what our future income was going to look like. it is totally unremarkable in every way but (knock wood) has been problem-free and was very inexpensive. there's a stigma attached to it (at least in my mind) here in label-conscious LA, and it's not fun pulling up in a valet line. but on the other hand, if my 2-yr old throws up in the back-seat or my wife puts a dent in the side (both of which have happened), meh, no big deal ... it's only a hyundai.
but they seem to be making an aggressive play with their new models and i bet they're offering great deals in terms of financing, etc. might be worth a look.
and i too would stay away from the germans. i had an M3 and loved every minute of it, but i wouldn't do that now with kids. the risk of expensive repairs scares me away. i think most of the german cars you see driving around are leased, so people aren't keeping them long and aren't too concerned about long-term reliability.
Quote from: Triple J on July 26, 2010, 11:40:50 AM
I thought about it. I don't know enough about how modern engine electronics work...but I think the engine will compensate (retard timing?) for reduced octane in order to prevent pinging (unlike our motos), so you wouldn't hear it. In a $40K car, I'll spend the extra few bucks at each fill-up to follow their recommendations.
I don't know either. Hell, I can't even work on a lawnmower engine. That is where my ability sits.
I get the same mileage with all octanes, so I keep it the same.
But then again, my lexus wasn't 40k, so I might consider things differently in your position. Good call on that.
Carlos - why buy new???
Go certified used.
Why take the 30+% depreciation hit when you take it off the lot?
Don't forget GAP insurance (if offered in FL) if you buy new.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 26, 2010, 11:58:32 AM
Carlos - why buy new???
Go certified used.
I hate quoting myself:
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 11:14:00 AM
Once we decide on the brand, then we will check the used inventory and finally we will check the out the door prices and all the "local" dealers. That will appease all my "what ifs".
I bought my Sienna used mostly because we needed to buy it immediately. We had visited the Honda dealer and we had found a 1 year old used Odyssey that was perfect, but we didn't have the cash to buy it immediately. It was sold the next day, but we compared the price of the used Honda to a new Sienna and it was off by a few hundred dollars. I prefer buying certified used for the reasons stated above and this time around we can shop for better deals.
I love annoying you, what's your point?
You coming to GP?
Quote from: duccarlos on July 26, 2010, 12:25:03 PM
Nope.
WTF. Is anyone from the land of whacko's, sun, and oranges?
I presume Suzy might go. If Suzie goes, then Phil will go. And if Phil goes, then JC will go.
I figured Suzy will go to see her parents and brother.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 26, 2010, 09:32:53 AM
For some reason people skip the 5-series here; no idea why.
Because Chris Bangle fuglied them up.
Quote from: Triple J on July 26, 2010, 11:40:50 AM
I thought about it. I don't know enough about how modern engine electronics work...but I think the engine will compensate (retard timing?) for reduced octane in order to prevent pinging (unlike our motos), so you wouldn't hear it. In a $40K car, I'll spend the extra few bucks at each fill-up to follow their recommendations.
Modern engines do retard timing to reduce ping if you use the incorrect octane. I would highly advise using what the manufacturer recommends.
Here you go Carlos. It should fit you, your family and the extended family!
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2290586200091834741tqwvQC (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2290586200091834741tqwvQC)
Quote from: IZ on July 26, 2010, 07:12:04 PM
Here you go Carlos. It should fit you, your family and the extended family!
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2290586200091834741tqwvQC (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2290586200091834741tqwvQC)
Hellz yeah!
ride in style, import one of those Tata Nanos
You live in South Florida.
Get a Daihatsu Rocky
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 26, 2010, 02:21:05 PM
Modern engines do retard timing to reduce ping if you use the incorrect octane. I would highly advise using what the manufacturer recommends.
Ooooh, can we debate octane again!? Canwecanwe? ;D
I recall this thread from TOB (http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/general-monster-forum/128441-what-type-gas-should-you-use-11.html), and I will take Jim Conforti's word for it
"You can only detect the start of knock using either energy (sound) sensors or piezo chamber pressure sensors. When you hear what you THINK is the START of knocking, it's actually fairly severe detonation.."
Also, I forgot about the Genesis - those appear to get good write-ups, and you could buy a fully loaded one new for your price range.
Quick update:
I went out and started test driving cars. I tried the CTS, TL and Accord just because I was servicing my current Accord. These are my impressions:
CTS: Felt kinda heavy, like it was lumbering through the streets. I love the looks and there are certain items, like the battery in the trunk and the On* system that were positive, but in general I will avoid Cadillacs unless I can get the V or I turn 70.
TL: Loved it. Test drove the base model with the tech package. Great car, not so good with gas mileage. Shifters were just ok.
Accord: It is what I've loved about my current Accord. Does everything well. Can get basically the same features as the TL for significantly less. One thing that might tip me over to it is the ability to turn off 3 of the 6 cylinders will in cruising speed. The only thing I can think of that it does not have is the push button start. That would allow my wife to not have to remove the key from her purse and hence lowering the possibility that she loses yet another key.
Upcoming cars I will try: Lexus ES and Infiniti M. Still debating if I should try the Germans even though I know that I will not be buying one.
Any recommendations based on experience is much appreciated.
I will never ever ever buy a honda product again after my 2001 Acura MDX trans. gave up at 117k and even after rebuilt TWICE it's still in the shop.. Honda and Acura are doing crap to help.
Personal experiences...
1992 BMW 7 series.. lasted more than 100k on 1 clutch (5 speed manual). sold with no major issues (well needed a head gasket due to an overheat one time, but that's minor work)
1984 BMW seen 200K plus on odo (both BMW 6cyl)
1994 Lexus ES300... nearly 200k no major issues
1991 Toyota Camry... over 100k no major issues
1990 Mazda miata... nearly 100k no major issues
hell my 91 opel is near 100k no major issues
Honda/Acura... CRAP!
That's funny cause my Accord is sitting at 126K and, you guessed it, no major issues.
The Sienna is sitting at around 80K and no major issues either.
1992 Toyota Corolla was around 120K and it had major issues.
what really bugs me isn't so much the trans problem... it's that Honda KNOWS there's a problem and they won't help
Honda does not do SUV's very well, or trucks for that matter.
Quote from: duccarlos on September 03, 2010, 10:37:11 AM
That's funny cause my Accord is sitting at 126K and, you guessed it, no major issues.
what year and motor is your Accord?
and on German suggestions, it was earlier mentioned (rightly so) to look at a C230 or perhaps even an E320 Benz. Not so hateful on servicing regimens and relatively reliable. I am partial to the European vehicles for their design and feel as they are much more conducive to being driven and giving you proper road feel. They are designed for the environment of the road as a driver and not as a passenger to isolate you from the road and driving environment. You quite frankly can't knock an A4 with the 2.0T or the A3 Sportback ( preferably with the S package with the TDi motor). I would also condier a CPO'd 5 series BMW. Something of a 3-5 year old , as they are generally better maintained. The last 2-3 years for that product line, the cars of CPO were probably moreso done so with the free maintenance program done at the dealership, so more than likely, aside from tires, not a penny was spent by the consumer, so therefore, if it needed it, it was done.
Actually, my neighbors spend more time with loaner cars from the BMW dealership than their own cars. That's one of the reasons I'm shying away from beemers. I'm not going to pay a premium for a smaller car when I see my neighbors suffering with them. I'll try look at the European brands, but in general you are paying a premium for them.
why not look for something like an '05 S60R or V70R?
comfortable, reasonable, stealthy, interesting, and still not a boot in the ass in general. Cops don't give em a 2nd look, and they can be reliable and give you the ooomph when you want.
I think mentioning various cars we've had that were trouble free or nothing but trouble is a bit counter productive-the sample size is too small. I mean, opposite from Raux, had good luck with Honda stuff, only bmw we had was more trouble than it was worth.
From Carlos's reviews, I would say just another little Honda.
To tell you the truth, Volvo was not even on my radar. I'll add it to the list at least for fun's sake.
Quote from: duccarlos on September 03, 2010, 11:30:01 AM
To tell you the truth, Volvo was not even on my radar. I'll add it to the list at least for fun's sake.
Yes, please support Volvo's Chinese overlords. [cheeky]
I actually like to hear you guys' advice. My wife is enamored with the Honda and she loves the fuel economy. I actually like to diversify. I was originally looking at a 5 series, until I noticed my neighbors having issues with their cars. The Benz is slightly over what I would expect to pay, but I'll test drive one anyway. I will eventually try the Audi. I was really hoping I would like the CTS better than I did. I really like the looks, but can't get passed the heavy feel of it.
Even though I just got rid of my Mazda 3, I got 250,000 pretty much trouble free miles out of it. That is smaller than you want but the Mazda 6 seems to share a lot of the same DNA so that probably would be just as reliable. also, one that I rented seemed to handle just about as well as my 3.
Might be worth a look.
I had a Mazda and unfortunately it had its issues.
purchasing a used luxury car that is a year or two old is a good idea.In 1993 my Jaguar 12 cylinder fully loaded new was $73k and change. I bought it 6 years old in 1999 with 60k on the clock, FSH for 12k.The original owner took a 61k beating on it. It was a lovely car. I took 2nd in class at the Jaguar Owners Club of North America with a 99.6 in the Concours D' Elegance. It was a lovely car to drive, and would smoke the tires if you gave it some wellie . Big car, tons of power,drove like it was on rails. Yum!
Now I drive a 1992 Honda Civic. Gutless worn out beater. Gets 35 mpg and I love it. Its a base model. It does however come with a windshield and paint that mostly matches. I love this car!
If you buy new you will lose 20% the second you drive it off the lot. Ebay may be your friend.Something a year old should still have warranty and get a carfax.
Good luck in your search and if this is for your wife, she is a lucky girl. Thank you for being nice to her.
BGB.
Quote from: MrIncredible on September 03, 2010, 11:19:33 AM
I think mentioning various cars we've had that were trouble free or nothing but trouble is a bit counter productive-the sample size is too small. I mean, opposite from Raux, had good luck with Honda stuff, only bmw we had was more trouble than it was worth.
From Carlos's reviews, I would say just another little Honda.
that and none of the mileages on those vehicles is anything close to stellar
my current jeep ran the stock clutch to 100k
my CJ-7 had 350,000+ on the motor
these newer cars should be error free to 300k
and the sky is green in my world
Quote from: Mother on September 03, 2010, 10:38:58 PM
that and none of the mileages on those vehicles is anything close to stellar
my current jeep ran the stock clutch to 100k
my CJ-7 had 350,000+ on the motor
these newer cars should be error free to 300k
and the sky is green in my world
true they aren't... but comparable to my Acura they had no issues at the same or higher mileage
like i said this is my last Honda product
Quote from: Mother on September 03, 2010, 10:38:58 PM
that and none of the mileages on those vehicles is anything close to stellar
my current jeep ran the stock clutch to 100k
my CJ-7 had 350,000+ on the motor
these newer cars should be error free to 300k
and the sky is green in my world
My Mazda still ran very well at 250k, outhandled most cars too.
It's predecessor, a 2002 Corolla failed at 210k or so. I still have it's engine in the garage and will one of these days pull the head off to see what exactly killed the one cylinder.
Quote from: Triple J on July 26, 2010, 11:40:50 AM
I thought about it. I don't know enough about how modern engine electronics work...but I think the engine will compensate (retard timing?) for reduced octane in order to prevent pinging (unlike our motos), so you wouldn't hear it. In a $40K car, I'll spend the extra few bucks at each fill-up to follow their recommendations.
from what I've read running regular in many modern cars car designed for premium will cause the ECU to retard timing (due to pinging picked up by the knock sensors) and that will cause substantially worse mileage, enough to negate any possible savings...and in a years time running super might cost maybe $100 extra for a typical driver
The gas question will also be weighed in the decision. My wife will be driving it the most and at least 50 miles a day. Payin for premium gas will most certainly not be appreciated.
Dude I'm telling you look at the genesis. All hyundais run on regular unleaded.
Gold colored Olds or Buick...you'll be way ahead of the age-curve
I looked at the Genesis while in the Acura dealership. They were actually pushing it more than the Acura. Didn't like the interiors much. My son seemed to like it.