Ducati Monster Forum

EDIT -  Updated first post with all the known manufacturers of filters for 696/796/1100 with the exception of the DP filter which I could not find for sale individually.

K&N - DU-6908 - ~$62
(http://www.knfilters.com/images/m/DU-6908.jpg)

MWR - MC-020-08  - ~$140
(http://www.racingairfilters.eu/data/media/h)MC-020-08%20%20%20Monster%20696-1100-1100S.JPG)

Pipercross - MPX151 - $60
(http://www.motowheels.com/italian/images/lg490716043.jpg)

BMC - 452/08 - $85 - only found on one site.
(http://www.bmcairfilters.it/cgi-bin/Images/Product/452_08.JPG)

K&N and BMC appear to be more of the standard design filter. While MWR and PX appear to be some type of soft foam. The MWR is the most radical change from the stock filter and is also the most expensive.

now you have to add MWR to that list

http://www.racingairfilters.eu/?ids=kop3/sub3 (http://www.racingairfilters.eu/?ids=kop3/sub3)

and pipercross. i think the HM filter fits the 696. but you have to cross reference.

These are both listed on motowheels

MWR $137

PX $55

http://www.mota-lab.com/ (http://www.mota-lab.com/)

a desmoworks company

Who's doing your re-flash?  How much?  I'm definitely excited about the possibility of this...

Thanks to Raux and however he gets all his information I found out that Anthony over at Desmoworks is in the process of getting the software for reflashes. He will be the first in the US to have it. Hopefully within the next week or 2.

excerpt from an e-mail:

"We can disable the O2 sensors as well... you'll be able to map the entire REV and Throttle Position range with the PCV!"

This is exciting for sure. Being able to re-flash you ecu disable the O2 sensors and get a complete custom tune via the PCV. I am excited for all this.

NEED MO MONEY

I'm also gonna get the re-flash but do you think a PCV is gonna change the mapping enough to justify the added cost ? I was thinking the re flash would do the trick. I know on my larger displacement bikes dyno tuning made all the diff. in the world but with this small air cooled motor I'd like to see a dyno chart of a PCV/re-flashed ecu compared to just a re flashed ecu.

Probably not, but! adding the waspworks kit with pod filters and velocity stacks would, I think, almost necessitate a dyno tune due to the major change in the intake system.

If I were to just get a high flow filter and a reflash with my exhaust a PCV tune would be unnecessary.

Question? If I get the DP Race re-flash and have the o2 sensors disabled will the bike run? Or does the disabling of the o2 require a PCV and dyno tuning. I want to get the flash and disable the o2 but the waspworks kit with the PCV is still weeks away for me and I want to be able to ride. Might even end up waiting until next season depending on the final release date.

Veloce you have a 09 696 right?

if so, i can lend you my stock ECU to use while they play with the remap on your ecu.

You are a true gentlemen. However I believe Anthony said once he receives the ECU it's 24hrs and back out the door. Assuming I overnight the ecu to him and he ships it back standard were talking 4-5 days maximum. I should be able to survive a work week without my bike.

Let me talk to Anthony again first, I may take you up on this yet. Though waiting for customs and shipping to the US and back to Germany may be ridiculous. 

Might as well hand deliver and make a vacation out of it.   [beer]

no prob. let me know.

I didnt know it was possible to reflash the 696 ECU yet? What is Desmoworks charging if you don't mind sharing? I'm very interested in this as it would allow me to get the pipes that I want instead of buying Termi's!

He told me 300 bucks ;D

Same price he told me.

The tough decision used to be how to best get the DP ECU... now it's to re-flash with or without the 02 sensors...

Now I just need to find out if disabling the 02 sensors requires tuning ot if I can just disable plug in the ecu and go.

MAN we're off topic.

So what exactly IS the benefit of the new ECU and high flow filter? What are the gains from it?

I'm not aware of anyone who actually did before and after dyno testing to see the real numbers gains.

Honestly I'm not getting it for that reason. From what I understand the new ECU and filter will help with a few of the 696's notorious issues.

Anyone who has ridden a 696 knows that dead on 4k rpm the engine hesitates almost like it is being starved of fuel. The engine tone changes and the decreased power can be felt.

Backfiring after the installation of aftermarket exhaust due to the engine running lean (lack of fuel) is also corrected due to the increase in fueling which is why the "race" ecu is technically for "off road use only" Installing the new ecu and filter means that the bike no longer conforms to the european emissions standards. Here in the US there are no emissions standards for MC's so no worries there. (except for CA I believe they have some sort of emissions for MC's)

Another Issue I have not experienced but have heard many complaints about is the hesitation when trying to get moving from a stop in first. I have not had any issue with this, and have no problem pulling a wheelstand from a dead stop  ;D

Considering the $300 price tag for a re-flash + the $50-200 cost for an air filter depending on brand name I would say it is  more than worth the cost.

The ECU allows the engine to run as it was intended by the engineers who designed it before politics and other BS got involved... you know that story.

Oh, the DP ecu re-flash also increases the rev limit to I BELIEVE 10.5krpm? correct me if I'm wrong.
The benefits of this are debatable. From the dyno graphs I have seen the 696 TQ curve peak is about ~6500rpm and the HP curve peak is almost dead on 9k rpm. So debatably there is a benefit to be gained in the power of the bike, aside from everything else listed above.


Is it worth it for you? who knows, thats your decision.

*TQ and HP curve for a 696. From an owner who installed a Waspworks PUK
HP
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxalkMewj5HdNGJiZDY0OWItNmU5Ni00MzZlLThhNDMtN2NmMTgyOTMyM2Jh&hl=en (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxalkMewj5HdNGJiZDY0OWItNmU5Ni00MzZlLThhNDMtN2NmMTgyOTMyM2Jh&hl=en)
TQ
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxalkMewj5HdY2M1ZjgwYzAtZWJiZS00NTY2LWJhMWEtMTM4YmIwYTNhYmM5&hl=en (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxalkMewj5HdY2M1ZjgwYzAtZWJiZS00NTY2LWJhMWEtMTM4YmIwYTNhYmM5&hl=en)

Exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks!  [thumbsup]

This thread went ot big time, but it's awesome! I'm siked to be able to get the reflash! Wonder how the reflash runs with just pod filters without an exhaust! Presumably fine since I doubt there is much power to gain with slipons.

So, up front, sorry for continuing the off-topic nature of this thread.

However, I have a question about this reflashing.

Do you, currently, have a DP ECU as would be delivered with a Termi exhaust system?

If so, are you hoping to get the DP ECU as would be delivered with a Termi exhaust system flashed?

If you do not have a DP ECU, are you hoping to get the stock ECU reflashed?

If you are looking to get the stock ECU reflashed, in what state is it returned to you? Does it register as a DP ECU, or is the firmware simply updated to handle input and output differently?

I'm asking these questions because I'm debating whether or not to spend the money on a Termi system simply for the ECU. I don't really like the Termi slip ons but would greatly relish the chance to begin solving the lean running conditions inherent to the bike.

My current plan is to get my hands on the DP ECU, add a hi flow air filter, fit the exhaust system I would like, get a PCV and have a custom map made. If I can get the sucker flashed without having to buy a whole system, I'd find it much more to my liking.

By the way: I did a search and found this post. Answered a lot of my questions.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?p=894641 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?p=894641)

If you are asking me, I have a stock ecu and Ryan Hamptons twintube underseat exhaust. I would be re-flashing my current stock ecu to DP spec and adding a high-flow airfilter. From what Anthony at desmoworks has told me the ECU will be a true "dp spec ecu" with the startup message and all. Same as buying a $1300 DP ecu from Ducati. I'll let you know in this thread for sure when I get it done this week.

I've ordered mine. I got the User unit with Full system no flapper or O2 sensors and raised rev limit. We'll see how it works.

I'm confused, who did you buy the re-flash from? details on the "user unit" please. Also, will removing the 02 sensors require any further modification or can you just plug and play and remove the 02's

I would love to remove my  02's so in the future if I get a wasp kit I will be able to do a FULL dyno tune with the PC5. However I'm afraid to remove the 02's because I will not be getting a PC5 any time soon.

I'm assuming the user unit retunes the ECU under 4k rpm where the 02's are working so they are no longer needed.

Sorry for the questions but details please.

I talked to Anthony, but he stopped responding so I ordered it at Spareshack. The user unit comes preloaded with a map and you can read error codes reset the tps and co. It saves the stock map in the unit if you have to swap back. It uploads the map with the plug under the seat. Without the sensors you can map the whole map with the pc5.
My bike is a M1100
Link to Rexxer user unit
http://www.spareshack.com/products/31/RexXer-.php (http://www.spareshack.com/products/31/RexXer-.php)

Ok so you bought this.
http://www.spareshack.com/products/31/RexXer-.php (http://www.spareshack.com/products/31/RexXer-.php)

And with it you are able to do your own ECU editing? Also, I know about tuning the whole rpm range if you remove the 02's but if you remove them and then just load the preloaded tune will the bike run? or is a PCV required at this point.


Where do you get the tunes from? how do we know the user unit will come loaded with a map that works with my setup?

No, you can't do your own editing. Your buying a map to your specs preloaded on the unit. Basically the same thing you'd get if you sent it off to be flashed. You upload the map with the unit and it saves your old map, in case you have to go back. Yes, you can run with 02 removed because you have a new map that isn't looking for the o2 info. With the pcv you can edit the whole map to make it perfect. But the pcv is not required. [beer]

Excellent all questions answered. YOU ARE AWESOME  [thumbsup]

Ok, so I want this, how do i go about getting a tune from spare shack that is designed for my uncommon exhaust and high -flow filter?

PM sent [thumbsup]

US$477??  How much is a straightout reflash?  US$300??

Yup

Sooooo... I'm struggling to understand why you would pay the premium to go the rexxer....  ???

Because it costs more!!!!!!! And therefore is better!!!!!
I like the fact the unit stores the old map in case you have to swap back for some reason.
The RexXer also offers the following functions:

Diagnosis function
•Reading and resetting error codes
Service functions
•Reset Service alarm
•CO trimming
•TPS setup
•Reset autoadaptive parameters

Is it worth it? I don't know? Is half the stuff we do to our bikes worth the cost?
 It's what I wanted, so we will see.

So does anyone have any recomendations on the best high flow filter. [laugh] [laugh]

I love this thread!

I just bought a spare ecu on eBay to have reflashed, and it was much cheaper then a $177 premium. Just another option I thought of, this way my stock ecu stays stock and I can go back if I ever need to, also I can keep riding while it is sent off to be flashed. It won't have all the other stuff, but in case y'all hadn't thought about it........

Thats the beauty of the rexxer unit. You can plug it in and revert to the stock flash at any time. So $177 for the spare ecu and $300 for a reflash $477 total. Or spend about the same on the rexxer unit and be able to reflash and edit and all the shit listed above just by removing your seat and plugging in the rexxer....

so i you buy the rexxer yourself, you can edit your own ecu numerous times, without having to 'recharge' it?

I know what you mean.  When its a "gotta have" then I can justify anything  ;D.... 

I could have this wrong, but my understanding is that when you buy the Rexxer unit it comes with ONE map of your chosen configuration which you can upload to an ECU one time.  You want to do it a second time you buy a second map.... or "key" to allow a second reload.  I dont believe that once you own the hardware, it allows multiple reloads included in the purchase price or else why dont we all chip in to buy a communal DMF Rexxer and pass it around  8) ??

well i could see it being linked to an ECU as in the key/guages type link. but an open system is like 2500+ euro. now that we could do.

I Think that you can go back and forth with the map that comes preloaded. But only on one bike. If you want to change the map you have to order another one. They do have map editing software.
RexXer "Map-Editor"
Software "RexXer Map-Editor"
With our newly developed Software "RexXer Map-Editor" you have the ability to modify all functions of the ECU infinitely. Engine maps, pre-ignition, lambda, outlet control, display notice and the immobilizer can all be modified

 I'd chip in [evil] [evil]

Wow! Thanks for all that info! Did the question ever get answered though? Maybe I will just stick with the more affordable Leo Vince pipes and get all this instead?!

Btw...Arizona also has emissions on MC's. Not just CA.

ok rereaded rexxer's site
there are three licenses.
user- one map with your stock backup
professional light - not sure how many but a limited number of maps
professional- no limit

software is extra

This is from spareshacks site describing the professional unit

RexXer "Professional Credit" Tuning Box

The RexXer Professional Credit is a product that any busy workshop that predominantly works on Italian bikes would really benefit from. The Professional credit has all the functions of the standard RexXer User but also includes:

30 ECU flash credits.
When you have a bike in the workshop needing a performance tune you can log onto our secure sister site and download a tune to suit from our stored database. This removes 1 credit from your tuning box.

After you have exhuasted your 30 credits you can then buy a credit bundle of 10,20 or 30 credits for extremely attractive prices.

RexXer Map-Editor Software US$2,938.41   :o  >> http://www.spareshack.com/products/729/RexXer-Map-Editor-Software-.php (http://www.spareshack.com/products/729/RexXer-Map-Editor-Software-.php)

So for (also) US$2,938.41 your RexXer "Professional Credit" Tuning Box comes with 30x reflash uploads included.... thats $100 per reflash with a "free" Rexxer handset module  [evil].  >>  http://www.spareshack.com/products/728/RexXer-Professional-Credit-Tuning-Box--.php (http://www.spareshack.com/products/728/RexXer-Professional-Credit-Tuning-Box--.php)

So... let me get this correct...  You've ordered a Rexxer unit with 1x preloaded map configured for M1100, no exhaust flapper or 02 inputs??  How much raised is the raised rpm limit?  Have you recieved it yet??  
How'd it go?? [evil] [popcorn]

So that the OP can have his thread back, I started a Siemens ECU reflash thread here >> http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41934.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41934.0)

I have an almost new DP hi-flow air filter which I no longer need - PM me if you're interested  ;D.

Arent the stainless termis (cans, ecu and air filter) about $1,000?   $1300 for just the ecu doesnt make any sense.

This is intentional. Ducati prices the DP ECU so outrageously high that no one would ever buy it solo. Instead, everyone buys it with the Termi kit. Ducati must have some sort of agreement with Termignoni which is why these two items are sold together. For those who dislike the look of termi's it's much tougher to get access to a DP ecu.

The recent ability to re-flash the siemens ecu has made it much easier though. However there are some issues still with the software.

Not sure if this thread is still about getting a filter but I'll chime in here.  The K&N is a fine choice.  You can get them anywhere, you know the quality is great, and they cost around $60.   

So I'm easily distracted...


I wish I could know for sure if there was a difference in flow between say the standard K&N and MWR
(http://www.racingairfilters.eu/data/media/h)MC-020-08%20%20%20Monster%20696-1100-1100S.JPG)

(http://www.racingairfilters.eu/data/media/e)MC-020-08%20%20%20Monster%20696-1100.JPG)

Don't beat yourself up over it.  I'm sure they're both good filters. 

I agree but one is $115 (mwr) the other is $60

So the age old question, more money = better product?????


*updated first post in an attempt to salvage this thread.

From what i've heard of MWR, they seem to be a great company, that puts alot of time, and energy into their designs. The list of people using their filters is very large too.  I'ld suggest discussing it with Desmoworks, or MWR themselves. 

K&N once I need to replace my DP filter.  No idea if airflow will be better or worse.  K&N based on reputation and price.

I got a free spare ECU so I am pretty sure I am going to do a remap.  But that Rexxer reflash unit is bad ass!

Just thought I'd post up this link cause it's for the K&N filter that fits the 696 for $42.00. I just got mine the other day and saved about $25.00

Link, you didn't post the link. THE IRONY!

  http://www.autopartsdealer.com/kn_powersports_performance_air_filters_du_6908-p59831-p.html (http://www.autopartsdealer.com/kn_powersports_performance_air_filters_du_6908-p59831-p.html)

Appropriately Link was hung on me in reference to the "missing link" between apes & humans which in this case the irony seems very well placed ! 

This topic went way ot, and I'm wanting to verify some of that ot info....bringing back from the dead!

I have the cash to get my 696 ecu reflashed. I'm wondering if I get the dp reflash with o2 sensors removed - will the bike run ok without having a power commander? Or, would I be better served just getting the standard dp reflash and leave the stock o2 sensors enabled? I'm wanting to order my slipons, reflash, and filter tonight or tomorrow.

Thank in advance for any help.

Contact Anthony at desmoworks.

He has multiple flashes and if you tell him your exact setup he will use the appropriate flash for your needs.

If you are just doing exhaust/filter a PCV is unnecessary.

I chose to get the increased rpm limit and delete the O2 sensors along with the new map for my setup that should hopefully solve my lean issue.

I have had the rexxer map with and without O2 sensors, both with raised rev limits, and will say that the map that forgoes the sensors is easier starting, and alittle livelier down low.   I have found no ill effect, and as of yet have not pcv'd it.

My personal feeling is, if you're already going to reflash, why not get rid of the O2 sensors.  it saves a few ounces, and lets the bike fuel properly, instead of thinking it should!

Also, if you decide to do something more down the line, PCV is a viable option, whereas with the O2 in place, you can only half-tune with it

Thanks for the suggestion. I emailed Anthony, and he gave me some good input. According to him, the MWR filter setup is the better choice as it is designed for better filtration, as well as allowing a larger volume of airflow. looks like I am going with no o2 sensors, and the MWR filter instead of the k&n I was planning on.

Exactly what I did.

No pod filters for you?

I'm still buying the custom bracket that dowork is making because I said I would, and already paid for half. But I can't justify spending $1,000 on intake/tuning for a 696. I'll stick with a flash and an air filter for $350.

I know what you mean, but you're way more invested than I am. You may as well see how far you can take it!

Id like to say that I won't end up going with velocity stacks, auotune, etc but I know I will.  :-[ I mean, I have a Honda ruckus that has more money in it then I care to share. For now at least, I'll stick with the intake, reflash, and slipons.  :)

Most filters flow similar... hell stock is as good as aftermarket in many cases. It isn't all about the filter flow though. It is about opening the airbox in this case. The MWR kit allows much more air flow due to the new diameter o the intake opening.

Also it is about keeping the engine clean. The MWR oil foam is fantastic at that. Wilco puts tremendous effort in first making a product that keeps the engine clean (the point of an air filter) and second having it make power. K&N just copies the stock filter and calls it a day. MWR develops kits to increase performance.

Also the quality of the MWR foam is outstanding. Can be cleaned and reoiled 20+ times and only needs it once a year with normal use. In other words the filter will outlast many people's bikes!

(http://www.mota-lab.com/images/mwr_large/MC-020-08-5.jpg)

i partially agree

yes the airfilter does open the box more thereby allowing more volume of still air

but i'm not sure it flows more air. hear me out.
the amount of air a filter can flow is based on two properties, flow rate of the material and surface area.
assuming the material of the BMC, K&N and MWR all flow at the same rate then surface area comes into play.

the mwr looks like it has a smaller surface area, thereby would actually flow less air.

BUT that may or may not be an issue.

the amount of air an engine sucks in per cycle is limited. question is ... is the stock airbox larger than that volume?

and finally, the MWR has a least one advantage I see, reducing the amount of turbulence around the intake horns.
I hate how close the stock filter sits to the intake horns. that cannot help air flow during an intake cycle even it's a K&N filter.

so... as long as the MWR is allowing enough air into the airbox based on flow and surface area, then it should have an advantage. If the surface area isn't sufficient then it may actually limit the airflow

The airbox is so severely restricted that MWR found it to be the limiting factor of the intake system. Hence the kit to open it up. Nothing revolutionary though... Monster airboxes have always been restrictive and more power has always been had by opening them up.

Here is a chart of the MWR kit vs the DP kit that comes with the Termi slip-ons. It is the most open kit besides the MWR so there isn't too much difference as expected... I wish a stock run was also on here as you'd see quite an increase from the starting point then, but the bike already had the DP kit installed when the owner brought it to the dealer for the MWR kit.

On the other 2V motors such as the Hyper we have stock to MWR charts and the differences are massive. Also comparisons to other brands (pipercross, K&N, etc... and MWR is on top, but it comes as a kit - not just a filter copied from OEM so it isn't a fair fight  ;) )

(http://www.motalab.com/images/mwr-696-filter-kit-dyno.png)

Sweet,

glad I bought MWR.

Did you have to get the DP air box lid cover (the one with the extra holes)?

All I bought was the MWR 696 kit.

It's a drop in.

From the pictures it doesn't look like it replaces the air box lid. If it doesn't, how are you getting more air into the box?

I believe stock, the airbox has a cap that sits over the filter. The cap has two ducts which line up with the air ducts on the airbox... So, it has somewhat of a "ram air" effect... The cap also holds the filter in place.

The MWR kit is just opened up on the top without the cap, allowing more air to come in, rather than be restricted down two small paths.

Go to pod filters!  :P

Here's a photo of the two airbox lids. The stock lid is on the right and the lid from the Termi kit is on the left. You can see the additional holes.

(http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=101191&d=1307900277)

I have your bracket, but that's stage 2. First I'm going to get my ECU reflashed (w/o O2 sensors) and go with a hi-flow filter. I'm not ready to commit to the PCV quite yet.

God dammit. I installed my MWR filter on Saturday... and put the stock airbox top back on. Didn't realize I was supposed to leave it off - but that would explain why it was so damn hard to get those bolts in!  [laugh] Guess I'm going back in soon...

I'm S-M-R-T.

OK, so you're saying with the MWR kit you leave the airbox lid off. Gotcha.

Wow, I thought that the termi system would be a lot more.... Open... Just two small holes?? 

You could cut out 90% of that bracket and essentially make your standard filter flow like the MWR... Probably not as good, but close. Just need to leave the three mounting points to the air box and the one for the filter.

I almost made a bracket for the standard air filter where it mounted to the airbox, but was open on top and on the sides.... But I went to the pod filters.

You can make one pretty easily with some metal strips, a drill and a few bolts... Just need to connect the three mounting point to the center where the filter bolts in..

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/MC-020-08-5.jpg)

Should flow much better than stock, and cheaper than any other option....Maybe not as pretty, but its also not visible

Designed this up in a few minutes....

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/1-2.png)

Filter bolts to the center bolt, and the three around the sides mount to the airbox... So, you could use stock air filter(or aftermarket such as K&N or the termi one) but have a much higher flowing intake... It won't be restricted by the air ducts and what not

Looks great! You gonna make it for me in a few more?  ;D Seriously though, that does seem like a pretty good option if you wanted to save a few bucks over the MWR kit.

Haha thanks! I would totally produce a bunch, but after the pod filter bracket scandal/drama fiasco might have to go though other channels to get them out.

I stil waiting for your bracket to release again. DoWorkSon~

Yup, it's definitely the best of the intake kits that retains the stock air box.

I also tried to reinstall the stock air box lid when I installed mine, instructions (which I didn't read 'til after) never made any mention of it.

 

Thanks, guys! I shipped my ECU out to Anthony for reflashing today and ordered the MWR filter. Unfortunately it's backordered, so I'm not sure how long my bike will be down.  :'(

The DP air filter looks very similar to K&N. No idea if the media material is the same or not. Has anyone cleaned and oiled a DP air filter with the K&N recharge kit?

I reinstalled the lid too. the bike runs great, wonder if I should go in & remove it? What I thought everyone was referring to leaving off was the little part in the center of the air box opening that actually holds the air filter in place with the cone/thumbscrew?

Nope, you're supposed to leave off that plastic top cover with the 2 ducts on it. The top of the airbox just has the filter right there in plain sight after installing the MWR. The "sock" shape of the filter negates the need for the plastic top piece.

hrm. maybe i'll remove it after i get off work today. the bike runs great with it installed, wonder if there will be a difference after removal? probably pretty minute I'd guess.

Greater airflow. It can't hurt.

although it still turns the air the 90 deg from the side intakes

I did exactly the same thing. Bike was running pig-rich with the Termi ECU until I pulled the cover off, but I'm really impressed at the difference it makes over stock, that's for sure.

I finally got around to installing my MWR filter today. I've been running a flashed ECU with the stock filter and exhaust in the mean time. Ironically, it still ran way better than stock. With the MWR filter installed the bike pulls a bit harder and the throttle response is quicker. You can also hear the engine breathing at idle. You also get more engine noise which sounds pretty nice at WOT. Overall, a solid upgrade!

I looked at the dyno graphs and the 1-2 hp/ft-lb gains don't indicate the stock airbox/filter is that restrictive? I understand 1-2 hp can be "a lot" when talking about a 696 cc engine, but 1-2 hp could be dyno error as well?

Very interesting.
The MWR set up attempts to create some space between the filter and intake stacks/horns, so they have tried to address the problem. I wonder if there was a way of affixing a panel filter at the very top of the airbox?