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Title: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on August 17, 2010, 02:32:48 AM
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/32/3227.asp (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/32/3227.asp)

(http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/pix/graber.jpg)

Quote
Maryland Attorney General Upholds Right to Video Traffic Stops
Maryland attorney general rules that state police were wrong to charge motorist with felony for recording his traffic stop.

Making a recording of a police traffic stop is not a crime in the opinion of Maryland's attorney general. In a ruling issued last month from the state's top law enforcement office, Chief Counsel Robert N. McDonald found the legal grounds weak for felony wiretapping charges of the type brought against a motorcyclist who posted a video of himself being arrested on YouTube. Maryland State Police had taken advantage of ambiguity in the law to prosecute Anthony Graber, 25 for the April 13 recording.

"No appellate decision in Maryland specifically addresses the application of that law to recording of police activity," McDonald wrote in his opinion.

Graber had been stopped for speeding on Interstate 95. While driving an unmarked car in plain clothes, Maryland State Trooper Joseph David Uhler cut off Graber as he brought his motorcycle to a stop. Uhler then jumped out of his car, gun drawn, commanding, "Get off the motorcycle" before identifying himself. Graber had a camera on his helmet that recorded the entire incident, which he later posted on YouTube (view video). The sight of Uhler wielding his weapon in public over a traffic infraction drew a storm of criticism. Uhler responded by ordering his colleagues to raid Graber's residence and confiscate all of his computer equipment as evidence of wiretapping. By filing charges that could send Graber to prison for sixteen years, the state police wanted to send a clear message to anyone who might consider documenting police misconduct in the future.  :o  :o  :o

Under the interpretation of the state police and prosecutors, a police officer has an expectation of privacy while working on public streets. Ordinary citizens on those same streets, however, have no such expectation and are subjected to constant monitoring by the state's red light cameras, speed cameras and recently expanded automated license plate recognition systems. The attorney general's office examined the question of whether the conversation in a traffic stop constituted an "oral conversation" that is "intercepted" under the wiretap act if a citizen records the arrest. After considering a related attorney general ruling from 2000, McDonald ruled that there is no difference between a police officer and a citizen as far as the statute is concerned.

"The reasoning of that excerpt, which suggested that a police officer would not face prosecution or liability under the act for recording an arrest or traffic stop in a public place, would apply equally well to a private person involved in the same incident," McDonald wrote.

Several other states, with the exception of Massachusetts, have developed case law that clearly allows the recording of police traffic stops. The attorney general's ruling did not directly consider the details of the Graber case, but it concluded that the most likely outcome should it come to trial would be acquittal.

"A court could hold that a police stop of an individual necessarily is not a 'private conversation' and therefore does not involve an oral communication covered by the state wiretap act," McDonald ruled. "This conclusion would be consistent with the suggestion made in the 2000 opinion and with the holdings of the courts in most other states construing state eavesdropping statutes. Given the language of the Maryland statutes, this seems the most likely outcome in the case of a detention or arrest."


AG's opinion here: http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2010/md-youtube.pdf (http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2010/md-youtube.pdf)



My take:

Graber potentially has a lawsuit against Uhler for violating his civil rights in acting under color of law in issuing an arrest warrant and raiding his home for the videotaping. 


Pls keep comments civil. 


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Artful on August 17, 2010, 03:31:49 AM
Thankfully there is still a shred of common sense and decency in this state. The girlfriend got two speed camera tickets and a red light violation in the mail last week. The speed tickets are on her, even if the speed limits are artificially low in my area, but in the redlight camera you can clearly see a box truck inches off her bumper that didn't brake in time, forcing her to run the light.

Obviously she's going to fight it in court, but the fact that you have to even show up for something that a live officer could see was the FAR safer option is absolutely infuriating.

Very tempted to brush up the marksmanship with the .22LR around here in the name of liberty...  [evil]


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on August 17, 2010, 03:39:08 AM
I wondered how this one would go down. With the camera being in plain sight (mounted externally to a helmet) and the officer not identifying that he was and LEO for a several seconds, while displaying his firearm I figured the biker would have a case or two.

It's interesting to me, not being a law person, the differentiation between a police dash cam+mic set recording this incident and the fact that it was recorded by a citizen. 'Tiz, Stater any insights on this?


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on August 17, 2010, 03:44:47 AM
Dash cams are non-problematic as they are used in evidence collection and MOST do not record sound (which is the issue in this situation in MAryland -- NOT the video)


I was shocked when I first heard this story, given the asinine claim by the officer that it was a private conversation.  That being said, I think the AG's position is going to sway the court big time.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Statler on August 17, 2010, 03:54:22 AM
E'll let this thread keep going as it does directly relate to bikes.   Please follow ducatiz's lead and keep it civil.   

Artful, please leave off editorials like pinko state etc.  That type of political talk would get this thread locked elsewhere on the forum. 

I was also stunned at this story and figured it was one of those where there must be more to it that the news missed... Nope. 


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Artful on August 17, 2010, 04:00:50 AM
Noted, I had to listen to the little woman gripe about speed/red light cameras all last night while trying to rebuild a Triumph rear caliper so I'm a touch feisty today.

There I Fixed It(tm)


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on August 17, 2010, 04:16:17 AM
E'll let this thread keep going as it does directly relate to bikes.   Please follow ducatiz's lead and keep it civil.   

Artful, please leave off editorials like pinko state etc.  That type of political talk would get this thread locked elsewhere on the forum. 

I was also stunned at this story and figured it was one of those where there must be more to it that the news missed... Nope. 

I'll lock it right away if it gets out of line. 


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: tuanogus on August 17, 2010, 04:35:43 AM


    [popcorn]



Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: The Mad King Pepe' on August 17, 2010, 04:56:55 AM
"Uhler responded by ordering his colleagues to raid Graber's residence and confiscate all of his computer equipment as evidence of wiretapping. By filing charges that could send Graber to prison for sixteen years, the state police wanted to send a clear message to anyone who might consider documenting police misconduct in the future."

This is the part that really ticks me off!

As if it weren't already bad enough that the cop lost his nerve, instead of realizing his mistake he makes things even worse by acting like a member of the Stalin's secret police.

I don't justify the biker in any way, but I can't stand cops on power drives, to me they're no better than bullies.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on August 17, 2010, 05:20:27 AM
Dash cams are non-problematic as they are used in evidence collection and MOST do not record sound (which is the issue in this situation in MAryland -- NOT the video)

A lot of jurisdictions have seem sound and video. Just look at all the police chase shows that are collections of dash footage. For the most part, there's audio to those.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: MongoReturns on August 17, 2010, 06:32:05 AM
"Uhler responded by ordering his colleagues to raid Graber's residence and confiscate all of his computer equipment as evidence of wiretapping. By filing charges that could send Graber to prison for sixteen years, the state police wanted to send a clear message to anyone who might consider documenting police misconduct in the future."


I could be wrong, but this makes it seem like Uhler went to the barracks, rounded up his buddies, and raided the guys house.  I'm sure the proper channels were involved - warrant, etc. and all of that would have been fine due to the Md legal ambiguity.  I also think Uhler pulling his gun was fine (mind you I certainly don't like it!!!) as it would be a reasonable deterrent to the cyclist running, as has happened in Md before.  There may be a case for excessive force, but watching the video, the trooper seems fine after holstering his gun.  On the other hand it looks like a crazy guy waiving a gun, also which has happened in Md.

The McDonald memo is actually quite good, and I believe reaches the proper conclusion.

Side note:  utube "motorcyclist lowsides on mulholland in front of chp" is pretty funny.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: duccarlos on August 17, 2010, 10:43:31 AM
So how does a dashboard cam setup for both video and audio difer from a go-pro on the helmet. I mean, they are both in plain sight, correct? Wou'd the police officer need to sign a waiver? Do the people that show up in those shows sign a waiver?


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Meerkat on August 17, 2010, 11:11:11 AM
I find these constitutional issues quite fascinating, so I've been following this case for some time. I am not a lawyer, but here's my take on it. Part of the problem is that Maryland (unlike VA and DC) is a two-party consent state when it comes to recording. This means the the party recording and the recorded person must both consent to the recording being made. Maryland does not distinguish between police officers and private citizens, so police officers assume that they have a right to privacy and can refuse to be recorded without their consent. I think a large majority of two-party consent states distinguish PoPo from Jim Doe when it comes to this since they are a public entity and (at least in my opinion) don't have an expectation of privacy when doing their jobs.

So the moral of the story is...if you're gonna do something so stupid and tape the  [leo] who stops you, do it in DC or VA.

Attorney types feel free to correct me. My LO (law by osmosis) training is always open to updating.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Raux on August 17, 2010, 12:25:37 PM
hang on if MD is two party consent. then getting pulled over you can politely say, "i do not consent to being videotaped. please turn off the dash cam" ?


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Meerkat on August 17, 2010, 12:55:51 PM
hang on if MD is two party consent. then getting pulled over you can politely say, "i do not consent to being videotaped. please turn off the dash cam" ?

Funny how you and I think alike when it comes to that, but do you really want to deal with the police without a camera running? yeah, me either; not all of them are a bad, but why take that chance. I've seen how they treat the students in College Park and want no part of that.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out if it continues in the courts.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: J5 on August 17, 2010, 06:14:46 PM
hang on if MD is two party consent. then getting pulled over you can politely say, "i do not consent to being videotaped. please turn off the dash cam" ?

you can do that but unless you are being stupid and mouthing off then its in your best interest as it can be used in evidence

down here in aus they have had in car cams for quite a while , previously i am sure there was audio recording

if pulled over they advise you straight away that its all being recorded , use your repsonse as you see fit say thats awesome so now i can see it in court and make you look like an idiot ;)

afaik here they are constantly recording on a rolling 30 sec loop , if they hit the lights then it keeps the prev 30 seccs and contiues recording

have a look on youtube there is plenty around in different countries

funny thing it remids me , i had a mate who was working in a call centre and they recorded calls and you were advised of this and you had the option to deny recording

smartarse rings in and says no i dont want it recorded , ok recording off, doofus goes on and on , in the end my mate cracks it and gives it to him with both barrels

numnut says you can talk to me like that

oh yes i can since you decided you didnt want this conversation recorded  [thumbsup] [clap]


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on September 28, 2010, 12:50:13 AM
Morning news just reported that the wiretapping and related charges were dropped. At least according to the news MD requires all parties to concent to recording a private conversation. But the officer did not have a reasonible expectation of privacy on the side of a busy highway, thus his permission to record the event was not needed

Traffic charges against the rider still stand


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 28, 2010, 02:15:59 AM
Morning news just reported that the wiretapping and related charges were dropped. At least according to the news MD requires all parties to concent to recording a private conversation. But the officer did not have a reasonible expectation of privacy on the side of a busy highway, thus his permission to record the event was not needed

Traffic charges against the rider still stand

Not to gloat, but that's exactly what I said would happen.  Now, I want to see the lawsuit against the cop and judge who signed the warrant for abuse of authority and false arrest/imprisonment. 


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: zooom on September 28, 2010, 02:37:19 AM
Not to gloat, but that's exactly what I said would happen.  Now, I want to see the lawsuit against the cop and judge who signed the warrant for abuse of authority and false arrest/imprisonment. 

unless he lost a job or serious income because of it...I seriously doubt you will see one...a judge would not have issued a search warrant unless they thought they had grounds...and under the impressions of charges being initially presented to the judge for to issue said warrant, it would have seemed reasonable for to do so...


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on September 28, 2010, 03:08:27 AM
They raided his house, took his computer and associated stuff (the Cam etc) and probably some other stuff under the wiretapping charge.

I'm thinking a wiretapping charge and a raid on the dudes house for posting something to youtube is rather overkill - and I'm John Q Public on this one


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: MongoReturns on September 28, 2010, 03:14:48 AM
reasonable expectation of privacy...ack....lawschool flashbacks.....ack


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: MongoReturns on September 28, 2010, 08:11:39 AM
http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/09/squid-defeats-thug-cop-in-landmark-recording-case/#more-10329 (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/09/squid-defeats-thug-cop-in-landmark-recording-case/#more-10329)

hahaha the term "squid" will never be un-funny to me.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Veloce-Fino on September 28, 2010, 08:56:34 AM


Epic win for constitutional rights.



Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 28, 2010, 08:56:52 AM
unless he lost a job or serious income because of it...I seriously doubt you will see one...a judge would not have issued a search warrant unless they thought they had grounds...and under the impressions of charges being initially presented to the judge for to issue said warrant, it would have seemed reasonable for to do so...

One doesn't need to show loss of income or a job to prevail in a case against a police officer for abuse of authority or wrongful arrest.

The judge will have had testimony regarding the circumstances and if he issued a warrant for such a situation, it is possible he too could be included.  A warrant should not have been issued -- that's the opinion of the court (and the state AG).  Just because you misunderstand the law doesn't give you a pass.  Even if the misunderstanding is 'reasonable' it doesn't absolve you of the negative affects of your action.

Wrongful arrest is actionable under federal law... 42 U.S.C. §1983. Don't have to show loss of income, etc, just have to show it was a wrongful arrest.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: sbrguy on September 28, 2010, 05:35:14 PM
this guy will get nothing but a ticket and fines.  there is no judge alive that will let a case go forward against the  [leo].


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 29, 2010, 02:25:09 AM
this guy will get nothing but a ticket and fines.  there is no judge alive that will let a case go forward against the  [leo].

Sorrell v. McGuigan, in the 4th Circuit  (http://"http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/011565.U.pdf")(which covers Maryland) regards an officer arresting the individual under incorrect interpretation of law (i.e. length of a knife possessed -- Maryland has no length restriction for a folding knife).  The officer arrested Sorrell believing that Maryland had a 3" restriction on folding knives.  Sorrell sued and won.

In the present situation, the rider was perfectly within his rights to videotape and record the officer during a public stop.  The officer incorrectly interpreted the Maryland wiretap statute to require 2-party consent and obtained an arrest warrant based on that misinterpretation.

This has NOTHING to do with the stop and citation for speeding/stunting.  The officer was perfectly within his power to do so (although, there is still the question of force involved as he drew his gun without identifying himself, but I think there is leeway on that -- cops are armed for a reason).  This suit solely deals with what the cop did AFTER he left the scene and saw his face on youtube.

Iin Maryland, officers have qualified immunity.  As long as they are acting correctly under the aw, they can make mistakes, however, there is no immunity for acting incorrectly under the law.  In other words:  cops are expected to know the law.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: zooom on September 29, 2010, 02:38:58 AM
Sorrell v. McGuigan, in the 4th Circuit  (http://"http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/011565.U.pdf")(which covers Maryland) regards an officer arresting the individual under incorrect interpretation of law (i.e. length of a knife possessed -- Maryland has no length restriction for a folding knife).  The officer arrested Sorrell believing that Maryland had a 3" restriction on folding knives.  Sorrell sued and won.

In the present situation, the rider was perfectly within his rights to videotape and record the officer during a public stop.  The officer incorrectly interpreted the Maryland wiretap statute to require 2-party consent and obtained an arrest warrant based on that misinterpretation.

This has NOTHING to do with the stop and citation for speeding/stunting.  The officer was perfectly within his power to do so (although, there is still the question of force involved as he drew his gun without identifying himself, but I think there is leeway on that -- cops are armed for a reason).  This suit solely deals with what the cop did AFTER he left the scene and saw his face on youtube.

Iin Maryland, officers have qualified immunity.  As long as they are acting correctly under the aw, they can make mistakes, however, there is no immunity for acting incorrectly under the law.  In other words:  cops are expected to know the law.

okay...lets say this douchebag sues the state and MSP...what is to be gained?...for him, I think he is just as happy to pay his traffic citations and let this go happily away...he sold his CBR and said he isn't going to ride again...he has some sort of security clearance which means he can retain some level of decent work and pay his debts resulting from this(at least till his next backround investigation for renewal or upgrade of his clearance)...which, he is probably going to suffer his liscence being suspended or perhaps revoked for a period of time due to the nature and point accumulation of the traffic offenses for which MVA CAN make an example of him if the District Court shows no leniancy with him in court for the traffic offenses alone....so where does he gain from sueing the court and/or the MSP?


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 29, 2010, 03:32:12 AM
okay...lets say this douchebag sues the state and MSP...what is to be gained?...for him, I think he is just as happy to pay his traffic citations and let this go happily away...he sold his CBR and said he isn't going to ride again...he has some sort of security clearance which means he can retain some level of decent work and pay his debts resulting from this(at least till his next backround investigation for renewal or upgrade of his clearance)...which, he is probably going to suffer his liscence being suspended or perhaps revoked for a period of time due to the nature and point accumulation of the traffic offenses for which MVA CAN make an example of him if the District Court shows no leniancy with him in court for the traffic offenses alone....so where does he gain from sueing the court and/or the MSP?

let me turn it around on to you:  let's say you were arrested for something either that you didn't do or it wasn't against the law.  cops come into your house with a warrant, take your stuff, arrest and book you.  you sit in jail for a day until your family hires an attorney.  you miss a few days of work, all your computer stuff is locked up at the police station, and now you have to explain to people why you were arrested.

roll forward a few months and OOOPS it turns out they screwed up big -- you shouldn't have been arrested, and no, you actually did not do anything wrong.  in fact, what you did was 100% ok.

now, are you telling me you wouldn't want someone to pay?  i don't mean necessarily money.  if it was me, i'd want to take a crowbar to the guy's head, but i'm an attorney, not a "goodfellah" so i go to court. 

the law provides damages to people who are arrested in this manner (in the present case).  why pass the law unless there is a reason for it?  the reason is simple:  the police make mistakes and we do whatever we can to excuse mistakes, but when they intentionally do their job wrong, or misinterpret the law, we have to make people right.  we can't give this guy his dignity back (i.e. being treated like a criminal when he isn't one) but we can allow him to exact some kind of punitive damages against those who overstepped their authority.

and just because the rider is a douchebag doesn't mean he doesn't have rights or should be treated like a criminal.  sure, ticket him and maybe impound his bike.  take his license.  but arrest and 16 years in prison?  being charged like that would age me a few years, i would want retribution (which is totally proper in our legal system)>


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Ahks on September 29, 2010, 03:46:35 AM
And since when is it OK for a LEO to pull is sidearm on someone that isn't and immediate threat. It's not like he had the right to shoot the McSquiddy if he rode away. It should have never left his holster. A hand on the gun in the holster is as far as that should have gone. Identifying himself as a LEO about 3 or 4 seconds faster would have been nice too. Fkn cop is lucky the dude didn't panic when he saw the gun pointed at him.
we can't give this guy his dignity back (i.e. being treated like a criminal when he isn't one)
I've only ever been in a holding cell for a few hours at a time... Not having a door on your crapper is the most demoralizing thing I've ever been thru...


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: MongoReturns on September 29, 2010, 03:58:27 AM
This seems too easy (i'm certainly no crim atty) but how about a nice demand letter saying he'll sue unless the traffic charges are dropped?  Hmmm that seems improper somehow... Or sue then settle for the charges being dropped.  A felony (guessing 140mph qualifies as that in MD) is a big problem for security clearances.

The guy totally needs an atty to talk to the DA.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on September 29, 2010, 04:11:02 AM
This seems too easy (i'm certainly no crim atty) but how about a nice demand letter saying he'll sue unless the traffic charges are dropped?  Hmmm that seems improper somehow... Or sue then settle for the charges being dropped.  A felony (guessing 140mph qualifies as that in MD) is a big problem for security clearances.

The guy totally needs an atty to talk to the DA.

Your 1st thought is basically blackmail. The 2nd (sue first) is a little more normal


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: zooom on September 29, 2010, 04:34:09 AM
let me turn it around on to you:  let's say you were arrested for something either that you didn't do or it wasn't against the law.  cops come into your house with a warrant, take your stuff, arrest and book you.  you sit in jail for a day until your family hires an attorney.  you miss a few days of work, all your computer stuff is locked up at the police station, and now you have to explain to people why you were arrested.

roll forward a few months and OOOPS it turns out they screwed up big -- you shouldn't have been arrested, and no, you actually did not do anything wrong.  in fact, what you did was 100% ok.

now, are you telling me you wouldn't want someone to pay?  i don't mean necessarily money.  if it was me, i'd want to take a crowbar to the guy's head, but i'm an attorney, not a "goodfellah" so i go to court. 

the law provides damages to people who are arrested in this manner (in the present case).  why pass the law unless there is a reason for it?  the reason is simple:  the police make mistakes and we do whatever we can to excuse mistakes, but when they intentionally do their job wrong, or misinterpret the law, we have to make people right.  we can't give this guy his dignity back (i.e. being treated like a criminal when he isn't one) but we can allow him to exact some kind of punitive damages against those who overstepped their authority.

and just because the rider is a douchebag doesn't mean he doesn't have rights or should be treated like a criminal.  sure, ticket him and maybe impound his bike.  take his license.  but arrest and 16 years in prison?  being charged like that would age me a few years, i would want retribution (which is totally proper in our legal system)>

while I understand the point you make...you are making apples and oranges comparisons...

the guy was doing something blatently illegal to intiate this whole action...there was no question of that whatsoever....he then retaliated against getting caught because of the manner in which he was caught...then enter this whole debacle...

with the example you cite...the same situation doesn't run as far as the statutes and how it would go down....would I want compensation??...maybe/probably....hell...for the legal defense expedatures incurred alone...but this guy started off standing on the wrong foot and the statute is for the protection of innocent folks who are wrongfully charged and prosecuted in the 1st place....

lets imagine for a minute this whole situation went differently....lets imagine this guy did his illegal riding but was cut off and stopped by a regular motorist who pulled his key and threatened to beat his ass( but didn't physically harm him in any way) and called the police to come and back up a citizens arrest and used his video of himself as evidence....where do you think his situation would have gone?.....I mean, since we are coming up with what if's and all...


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: MongoReturns on September 29, 2010, 04:34:35 AM
Your 1st thought is basically blackmail. The 2nd (sue first) is a little more normal

 [laugh] Yep the first though smelled a little funny.  Must be a way to do it without filing all the paperwork.  Pre-settlement conference?  Maybe beers at Obama's place.  Or at Zoom's place  [cheeky]


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 29, 2010, 04:37:57 AM
And since when is it OK for a LEO to pull is sidearm on someone that isn't and immediate threat. It's not like he had the right to shoot the McSquiddy if he rode away. It should have never left his holster. A hand on the gun in the holster is as far as that should have gone. Identifying himself as a LEO about 3 or 4 seconds faster would have been nice too. Fkn cop is lucky the dude didn't panic when he saw the gun pointed at him.

I am 50/50 on the gun issue -- cops are armed for a reason.  He wasn't pointing at the rider, my feeling is that it was a defensive posture and he made the mistake of not identifying himself.  I don't think there is a big issue there.  Maybe a tiny reprimand or discussion iwth the CO to remind him of department practice, that's it.  Nothing actionable there.  Cops do not have to have the same standard applied when it comes to brandishing a firearm -- they carry one as part of their job.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: The Mad King Pepe' on September 29, 2010, 04:45:12 AM
I really thing the rider should be held responsible for riding like an idiot, speeding, endangerment, whatever.

On the other side I believe the officer should be held responsible for pulling out the gun (shit head got too excited) and for raiding the house and all that shit (bully on a power drive from my point of view).

I don't hate cops as a category, some of these guys are cool and work hard for shit. But I believe that all the failed bullies who turn into cops should be put into a segregated 'special reserve' with all the booze and arms one could ever dream of. Add a some cameras and nobody will watch Nascar, Football (hand-egg actually), or religious TV shows.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 29, 2010, 04:48:44 AM
while I understand the point you make...you are making apples and oranges comparisons...

the guy was doing something blatently illegal to intiate this whole action...there was no question of that whatsoever....he then retaliated against getting caught because of the manner in which he was caught...then enter this whole debacle...

so you are saying there is some nexus between the laws forbidding speeding and the laws forbidding wiretapping in Maryland?  hmmm.

Quote
with the example you cite...the same situation doesn't run as far as the statutes and how it would go down....would I want compensation??...maybe/probably....hell...for the legal defense expedatures incurred alone...but this guy started off standing on the wrong foot and the statute is for the protection of innocent folks who are wrongfully charged and prosecuted in the 1st place....

All of this is unimportant and not relevant.  The cop and rider went home.  The interaction was done.  When the video was posted, the cop (likely) wanted to protect his image especially after the uproar of him jumping out of a car with a gun and no ID.

Yes, you are correct the statute is for innocent folks.  The rider is innocent of any violation of the Maryland wiretapping statute.  Period.  The fact that he sped or wheelied or jaywalked or spat in the subway prior to that is irrelevant. 

I would take this guy's case against the cop and I'd win or get a settlement.  There is no rational reason for anyone to believe that a public action or conversation is private and if a cop is acting in public, he has no rational reason to believe his actions would be protected by the 2 party consent rule under MCA ยง 10-410.

The cop's actions in obtaining a warrant and arresting the rider fall squarely outside his authority as an officer.



Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: sbrguy on September 29, 2010, 04:53:59 AM
Your 1st thought is basically blackmail. The 2nd (sue first) is a little more normal

that is not really blackmail its called "a settlement" plain and simple.  or "a deal".

sounds like a simple situation, one person got a ticket and the other person had a big ego and bent the law or broke it to harass someone plain and simple.

we can defend illegal actions all we want but regardless of who does the illegal act, that person should still be prosecuted for an illegal act even if they are  [leo].. Unless of course the argument is that  [leo] are above the law and can do whatever they want, then of course under that premise they are allowed to do what they want and can do no wrong.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 29, 2010, 04:57:53 AM
that is not really blackmail its called "a settlement" plain and simple.  or "a deal".

no, it's not a settlement when the accused party is agreeing to refrain from a lawsuit.

i think most prosecutors would tell you to go to hell if someone tried that.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on September 29, 2010, 05:05:56 AM
no, it's not a settlement when the accused party is agreeing to refrain from a lawsuit.

You can't settle something that hasn't seen arbitration. Saying you'll hold off from doing something negative to someone in return for some payment is the basics of blackmail.

I won't show off the photos of you picking your nose, if you give me your jelly doughnut.
I won't sue you if you give me dropped charges (yes I know the grammar is messed - but I'm using dropped charges as the noun... work with it)


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 29, 2010, 05:32:59 AM
You can't settle something that hasn't seen arbitration. Saying you'll hold off from doing something negative to someone in return for some payment is the basics of blackmail.

I won't show off the photos of you picking your nose, if you give me your jelly doughnut.
I won't sue you if you give me dropped charges (yes I know the grammar is messed - but I'm using dropped charges as the noun... work with it)

i understand, but my point was that offering a prosecutor such a deal wouldn't fly because it may in fact be criminal. 


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on September 29, 2010, 05:43:24 AM
Right... what I was sayin'. I was agreeing with you on the point. My comment was more directed at Sbrguy. I should have been more clear.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Veloce-Fino on September 29, 2010, 06:34:22 AM
I'm sensing a lock in the near future  [popcorn]


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on September 29, 2010, 07:14:43 AM
No faith. Perhaps if this was out on General, it might have been banned as it would have had more attention and wild flame statements... But as a general rule, CAM has proven we can self regulate our discussions pretty well... (that and I think Statler's a sleep)



Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Meerkat on September 29, 2010, 07:47:29 AM
(that and I think Statler's a sleep)

...or maybe just doing what I'm not...working!


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: ducatiz on September 29, 2010, 08:46:41 AM
No faith. Perhaps if this was out on General, it might have been banned as it would have had more attention and wild flame statements... But as a general rule, CAM has proven we can self regulate our discussions pretty well... (that and I think Statler's a sleep)



I vote hangover.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: The Mad King Pepe' on September 29, 2010, 08:53:13 AM
But as a general rule, CAM has proven we can self regulate our discussions pretty well... (that and I think Statler's a sleep)
+1, though I side with the hangover theory ;)

I think this thread has been very civilized (despite my presence) and thanks to the lawyers involved also informative and factual rather than just filled with opinions (like mine).  [beer]


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: zooom on September 29, 2010, 09:23:11 AM
I think this thread has been very civilized and thanks to the legally informative and factual based rather than just filled with opinions

modified your quote, but the intention was more for to say, if there were more conversations generally like this, less of them would get hammered shut


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Veloce-Fino on September 29, 2010, 09:26:03 AM
modified your quote, but the intention was more for to say, if there were more conversations generally like this, less of them would get hammered shut


Your notions of free speech are dangerous comrade. BB is watching.... [roll]


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: DRKWNG on September 29, 2010, 12:06:33 PM
okay...lets say this douchebag sues the state and MSP...what is to be gained?...for him, I think he is just as happy to pay his traffic citations and let this go happily away...he sold his CBR and said he isn't going to ride again...he has some sort of security clearance which means he can retain some level of decent work and pay his debts resulting from this(at least till his next backround investigation for renewal or upgrade of his clearance)...which, he is probably going to suffer his liscence being suspended or perhaps revoked for a period of time due to the nature and point accumulation of the traffic offenses for which MVA CAN make an example of him if the District Court shows no leniancy with him in court for the traffic offenses alone....so where does he gain from sueing the court and/or the MSP?

The security clearance is the sticky point for possible litigation.  While an event like this will not impact his clearance at current time, it has the potential of doing so at the time of his periodic investigation.  Plus, there will be the matter of explaining the details of his arrest, which will be represented by a permanent note in NCIC.  This is where the litigation comes into play (from my non-attorney point of view).  I would imagine that said person could present a case of (potential) lost income due to his security clearance being placed in jeopardy in the near future, because of the illegitimate and unwarranted actions of certain members of the criminal justice community.  That, and the perceived infringement on his civil rights (being arrested wrongfully), could easily sway a court's decision in his favor...

And since when is it OK for a LEO to pull is sidearm on someone that isn't and immediate threat. It's not like he had the right to shoot the McSquiddy if he rode away. It should have never left his holster. A hand on the gun in the holster is as far as that should have gone. Identifying himself as a LEO about 3 or 4 seconds faster would have been nice too. Fkn cop is lucky the dude didn't panic when he saw the gun pointed at him.I've only ever been in a holding cell for a few hours at a time... Not having a door on your crapper is the most demoralizing thing I've ever been thru...

Let's steer clear of the cop bashing, shall we?


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Ahks on October 11, 2010, 04:46:57 AM
Let's steer clear of the cop bashing, shall we?

I'm the last guy to bash the police, friends and family are on the force and I work with a few federal institutions as a technical contractor... I just think that individuals reaction was excessive. Which isn't exactly the point of this thread so I'll politely butt out now :D


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Slide Panda on October 11, 2010, 05:27:00 AM
The actions of the officer are part of the discussion - but it's a discussion. So saying 'Fkn cop' is the sticking point.

When I first saw the video I immediately went 'uh oh' in regards as to how long it took that officer to identify himself as an LEO. Car was not marked, and no badge was shown/showing. I'm no scofflaw (mostly...), but if someone suddenly pulled a pistol out on me... I might rabbit. That office took 5 seconds from his first words, to actually stating that he was a Statey.

No matter what, that's a small, or non issue at this point in the face of the dubious action taker later regarding the seizure of the bikers computer gear and such.


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: Ahks on October 11, 2010, 05:57:00 AM
So saying 'Fkn cop' is the sticking point.

Ahh yeah. I didn't mean it that way :) I was raised by sailors. the "F" word is a very versatile word in my vocabulary  [laugh]


Title: Re: Biker arrested for videotaping officer story updated
Post by: DRKWNG on October 11, 2010, 06:02:40 AM
Ahh yeah. I didn't mean it that way :) I was raised by sailors. the "F" word is a very versatile word in my vocabulary  [laugh]

Well knock it the make the beast with two backs off, would ya? 













  ;D


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