Ducati Monster Forum

I am in a little pickle and need some advice.  First the facts.  Own an 800 S2R, usually ride backroads, not much, but some highway.  Rarely if ever get the bike over 80mph.  Last year I had among other things, my front forks oil changed and I think the springs.  After coming back from a great ride (tail of the dragon) I noticed my front end was kind of mushy.  Local dealer says the "cartridge" is shot in both forks and at the very least needs to be replaced.

I have searched this board and the "other" board (sorry guys, I was there for years before all the *$%! went down).  Similar threads exist i know, but form a year or two ago.  I know my front end sucks, but I didnt expect after the new oil and springs for it to have any trouble.  So now I am stuck having to make a decision....do I spend a bunch of cash to upgrade the internals or look at just getting a set of forks off of ebay.  I really dont want to spend more than 1K and the local Ducati dealer doesnt really seem to care about telling me what options I have other than a new set of ohlins or replace the stock cartridge that i know sucks.  I am leaning more towards a set of adjustable forks on ebay, but its slim pickkins and most are damaged or bent.  I also am not completely sure which forks would bolt on with the least amount of modification or having to change the brake setup. I am severely underqualified to do any of this myself so I will have to depend on the dealership for all labor etc.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Adjustable Showas from a recent Monster are a pretty easy install.

Pretty sure that '00-'02 M900, M1000, S2R1000, '01-'02 S4, '04-'05 S4R are all going to have ones that fit.

You'll need one of the front axles that's got the holes for the compression adjust.

How many miles on your bike?
I've seen some high mileage Monster forks and haven't seen a 'shot' cartridge yet.

Well, thats one thing that really bothers me.  I have less than 5000 miles on the bike.  I dont get to ride very frequently due to a heavy work schedule.  I bought the bike new in 2006 and have already thrown a bit of cash at it in upgrades (2 seats, full arrow exhaust, arrow steering dampner, suspension set up, and some other bits and pieces.  I dont track the bike or ride really agressively so I didnt see the point in upgrading the brakes or the suspension anymore than I already had.  The dealer told me they had not seen any blown cartriges before and I am way out of warranty.  I think there is a kit available that I could get from PJparts that would make the forks adjustable, but not sure if that is all I would need or if I would still need new springs and to get the oil replaced again. 

What does a front axle with holes run?  And, is the shop going to charge me up the wazooo to replace that too?

I've seen a handful of customer's S2R800's go past and *way* past that mileage with no fork issues.
But sometimes shyte breaks too.  :-\

How much do you weigh?

-edit--

Here's some more info:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=37034.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=37034.0)

Try using the 'search' button up there on the left, search for 'fork' or 'forks' in the Tech section, lots of talk about forks.

Yeah, things do break....oh well.  Could have been worse i guess.  I weigh about 200lbs which is why I had the oil and springs changed a year ago as well as the spring tension on the rear tightened up as well.  Bike handled much better after that and the dampner install.  

I keep finding posts about this Matris and Bitubo cartridge available at carpimoto, but I dont really relish ordering something from overseas if I can get it stateside.  I thought PJs carried it, but I cant find it on their site.  

Oh, and thanks for the link to the other post!

How many miles did you do in the past year?

There's a *possibility* you could use the springs you have now in a set of adjustable Showas.

I've no idea of the current source for Matris and Bitubo.

The OEM front and rear springs on an S2R800 are too soft for you.

matrisusa.com . they're the us distributor. as being a owner of matris cartridges, i wouldn't have bought them if i didn't get'em used. if you like tinkering and aren't tight on money, go ahead and buy some. i'm not trying to discourage, just the real life truth.

just saw that bellisimoto selss matris too. http://bellissimoto.com/MatrisForkKits.html (http://bellissimoto.com/MatrisForkKits.html)

after reading what i said, i felt like i was coming off as an a$$hole.

they only makes a handful of cartridges for ducatis so either way you'll need new forks or housing. regardless of what forks you use, i have R6s, the spring rate isn't going to be correct and matris won't have your bike weight to get you the correct spring rate. so you'll have to have your bike weighed. i called matris usa for some pricing on softer springs and new oil, about $160 for 2 springs and $40 per bottle of oil, probably need 2 bottles. to keep from voiding the warranty, you have to use their oils. the parts would be coming from matris italy cause they said they couldn't afford to a lot of parts in stock. likely axle and triple modifying.

Thank you for your reply regarding the Matris cartridge.  I have looked at this option, but am totally confused with it.  On the caprimoto site the matris kit they sell is a F05 S 20mm.  The bellisimoto site sells a F05 R 25mm kit.  Both apparantly for the S2R.  Then I found one that appears to be the same as the on on the caprimoto site at oncycles http://www.oncycles.com/catalog.asp?pn=BDD00102 (http://www.oncycles.com/catalog.asp?pn=BDD00102) that is on sale, but doesnt come with the oil.  It is spec'd for a yamaha, but looks like the same kit.  VERY confused with the cartridges and again, would have to have everything done by my dealer cause this mod is way over my head. 

I just wish there was some decent plug and play option here.  I can spend the dough, just want to make sure I get what I pay for and dont have to worry about future problems, ya know?

about 1400 miles in the last year.  guess i need to replace the rear cushion as well.....hmmmmm.

you could also buy my bike which has the shizzle that you need and then some. [thumbsup]
Adjustable showa front end and a new rear shock will sort you out in fine fashion and then you'll be blipping along around those corners in triple digit fun!Also just make sure your front tire has the correct pressure in it. If it gets low the front end handles like a wet noodle. That a free and easy thing to check!
BGB

Well, i have seen your ride and she is pretty, but I am partial to red ;D

Last 5 cars and my bike, all red. 

I don't really need all that much out of my bike, save the daredevil stuff for my cages on 4 wheels. Already had a doozy of a spill a few years ago and learned a valuable lesson.

Anyway,  thanks for the offer.  Any other words of wisdom you can give me?

PJs usually gets you what you need. Call them. I think they get a lot of stuff from CarpiMoto.
If there are any unknown fitments issues (Düb Lüv?), PJs might know about them...

This is the kit for the S2R800. Matris will deliver with oil and springs of your choice - no extra charged.
http://www.carpimoto.com/EN/28217_FD100S-Matris-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-for-Ducati-Monster-400-05-620-800-03-04-750-900ie-2002-S2R-800.htm (http://www.carpimoto.com/EN/28217_FD100S-Matris-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-for-Ducati-Monster-400-05-620-800-03-04-750-900ie-2002-S2R-800.htm)

If you do this, maybe it's a good idea to have a motivated suspension shop do the install, instead of your dealer?

IMO, it's really really worth it to spend on your/our forks [thumbsup]

Absolutely.  I replaced my forks with 998 ones, with 0.9 springs, and the rear shock with a 999 one.  It's transformed the bike.  The stock suspension on the lower-end monsters is pretty basic, and it's very easy to make huge improvements.

Wow, so Matris finally has an official presence in the USA.  That's cool.  I have their M4R steering damper and S series fork cartridge kit.  Very nice parts.  A couple of years ago I wanted to replace my Matris fork oil, but I couldn't buy it in the USA and Matris would not provide any information on a suitable alternative.  I took an unused portion of oil to my lab and measured the viscosity across the entire temperature range....then measured some commercial oils to find something that would work for me.

I like the Matris stuff a lot, but I hear that GP Suspension has some new solutions.  Local, responsive support can be an important consideration.

Get your spring rates correct on both ends + improve the forks + basic setup and you will be rewarded in a big way.

BK

forget about speaking to your dealer about suspension nor buying bits from x website

go and find a supension specialist that know what they are talking about

you dont visit a GP for a knee replacement , go and speak to the specialist

You could also contact Traxxion Dynamics (http://www.traxxion.com/contact-us.aspx (http://www.traxxion.com/contact-us.aspx)).  They have a complete GP Racing kit to change out the internals of the OEM S2R800 Forks making them adjustable and set for your weight.  I am 215 lbs and it was possibly one of the best upgrades I've made to the bike for about $1400 IIRC.  I had never noticed what crap the OEM suspension was until I had the rear spring changed for my weight then the front seemed mushy too.

did you ever use a alternative to matris's fork oil?

The more thought I give this the more I think i will stick with my current forks, but upgrade all the internals.  It would be nice to be able to dial my suspension in if i were heading out on the highway vs. taking the twisties in the mountains.  Since I am forced to do something anyway.

I appreciate all the advice on the mantris and other set ups.  I will also look for a local shop that specializes in suspension to help me get things tuned up right.  Bike is currently at the duc dealer and I dont have a trailer to go pick it up.  They are probably going to be less than excited for me to leave it there or have them ship out the forks or some other option.  The only thing they have ever seemed concerned about was making money off my misfortune.  Still cant help but wonder why the cartridges blew with less than 5K miles.  It has only been serrviced by them and they were the ones who took it apart last and changed the oil/springs. 

Thanks again for chipping in everyone.  I will update as soon as I get things rollin.

Yes.  Works great.  I've been using non-Matris oil for probably 10k miles now with no issues.  I replace fork oil every year at a minimum.  I would have no problem using the Matris oil if I could get it, but I couldn't.  I was also tuning the damping in each leg with different viscosities, so that was another reason to go my own way.  I do put Ohlins oil in the Ohlins R&T forks on another bike.

BK

Not sure where you are located, but hit up your local board for suggestions on suspension guys.  Good luck!

BK

i figured using some other brand wouldn't hurt. like you, i would use matris oil, but since it has to be ordered from italy and 4x more expensive than others i rather use something more readily available. besides, since i bought mine used, there's not a warranty that i have to keep valid. i was probably just going to use Redline.

Redline is a great choice.  I'm using Silkolene Pro-RSF (also a full synthetic).

BK

With the proper care and the right press the holes could be drilled into your current axle to make it compatible.

who did your suspension the first time and why arent they at least giving you a heavy discount if they blew out 1400 miles later?

FWIW, I just had Ohlins install 20mm cartridge kit in my SBK forks for around $500.  It took about two weeks from the day I shipped them and it transformed them.

And FWIW, I think your dealer is full of shit.  As clueless as I am, I've had many forks apart (and, more importantly, successfully back together) including installing several RaceTech Gold valve emulators and can't for the life of me comprehend what would cause a cartridge to be "shot" in <5K miles, unless THEY did something wrong in the instali of the fork oil and spring.  Regardless, AFAIK a cartridge is repairable.

Well, some good news I think!  One of the sales guys at the local ducati dealer directed me to a GREAT guy.  He runs another site (US Desmo) and is local to my area.  He has a ton of experience modding ducatis and has a fairly large collection that he rides regularly.  Offered to sell me his 916 forks and brakes for a great deal and is going to help me do the install and modifications to the triple as well.  So, when we are all done I should have a completely upgraded front end and brakes (may need a new master cylinder though).  I will try to document with pictures.  Looking forward to the project.  [wine]

Can't beat that with a stick.  I predict a happy ending here.   [moto]

BK

 ;D

Well, almost done!  I have been busy for the last week with a new friend and quite the ducatista!  I have had the excellent fortune of working with Jim, or as they call him "Il Capo", the founder of US Desmo, founder of the US Ducati Club in America.  Jim was kind enough to invite me to his man cave to fix my suspension issues.  He sold me a set of SBK forks (916) fully adjustable and in great condition.  He also helped me change out and upgrade the front brakes.  New SBK brembos and calipers, as well as master cylinder.  It was a great education for me and working with someone who has taken apart and rebuilt many ducatis in the last 20 years was priceless.  Jim was incredibly helpful and I would recommend everyone join US Desmo.  If for no other reason than to support what he is doing for Ducati owners in the US.  My only challenge now is to get the suspension completely dialed in.  I am looking at getting a rear ohlins setup from one of the club members for a Great price and he will also help get the rest of the bike setup.  Thanks again everyone for your advice and direction.  Cheers!

I attached a couple of  pictures of my new front setup...

(http://gallery.me.com/christianyaste/100029/My%20Photo_1/web.jpg?ver=12846827760001)

(http://gallery.me.com/christianyaste/100029/My%20Photo/web.jpg?ver=12846827040001)