Ducati Monster Forum

I used to love cars... Really... I have had a crush on the new Mustang like you wouldn't believe...
I test drove one... It was just a V6, the new 2011 with 305bhp... It was fast, and sexy... but handled like a the titanic...
Just didn't do it for me, major disappointment...

Which brings me into the realm of car shopping.
I'm turning 25, my insurance premiums have dropped STUPENDOUSLY.
My 2000 Plymouth Neon has me near my wits end with how make the beast with two backsing lame it is.

But herein lies my problem...
Shopping for cars has all the sudden become the most boring, uninspiring, heart-crushing, soul-draining activity that I have partaken in over the past month.

It sucks.
NOTHING is appealing to me.
NOTHING AT ALL.

Help me :(
$25k-ish is my range.

Test driving a GTI tomorrow hopefully, although the reliability (or lack thereof) turns me off...
not too paticularly enthused by the looks either...

FML.

i just want another bike.

.

BAM, solved (get another bike)

cars are overrated

car design has bothered me forever however if you're like me and have no idea what practicality is here are a few winners

(http://www.carforums.net/reviews/makes/pictures/Caterham07.jpg)
(if you can find one in the US)

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5841/74403282.jpg)


(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6952/36654994.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-Lotus-Elise-Chrome-Orange-One-Owner-FLAWLESS-/250692081310?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a5e69969e#v4-38
 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-Lotus-Elise-Chrome-Orange-One-Owner-FLAWLESS-/250692081310?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a5e69969e#v4-38)(can pick up a used elise  [thumbsup])


(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/874/77032734.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1952-Bonneville-land-speed-SCTA-Lakester-belly-tank-/350390858922?pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item5194ec34aa#ht_2505wt_941
 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1952-Bonneville-land-speed-SCTA-Lakester-belly-tank-/350390858922?pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item5194ec34aa#ht_2505wt_941)(not streetlegal but very cool)

I'm not a practical man

You could get another bike and a smart car.

Check out the subaru legacy gt and/or wrx. Might have to go cpo depending on your budget but I loved my legacy gt.

Also once you find the right model just do it all by email or phone. Tell the local dealers what u want and let them compete for your business. Less time in car dealerships = more time on the bike = :)

BMW 1-series coupe

fun as hell and quick-go-kart-like reflexes

get a sensible Honda Civic or Accord, embrace its plain-ness and sensibility...

I hear ya on car-shopping doldrums...

outside of exotics and vintage...everything seems pretty much to be a generic blob of sheet metal primarily backed by statistical differentiators and gadgetry level

and if it isn't a lump of air-streamed sheet metal it is a chunk of Stealth fighter-esque origami that 20 years from now will in retrospect look as ludicrous as a Studebaker bullet-nose

if I see one more car ad of some clown in a sedan kicking up dust 4 wheel drifting in a desert or making a mad-minute run on a public twisty

I may start screaming and not be able to stop

It almost seems that their collective pitch is more geared toward competing with each other to not be labeled Queen of the Pigs....rather than competing for capture of our imagination with genuine distinctions

the sop to us is..."you can drive aggressively in this baby and get reasonably good mileage"....ahhh yah sure!...give me a Ford 500 rental with all the insurance options on it and a 5th of Wild Turkey and I'll show you what a car can do :-)

 [bang] [puke] :-X >:( freaking HONDA

car shopping =  [puke]

A used BMW is not a bad idea.

A bland Honda is good also.

Can't go wrong with a Toyota and their imaginary throttle issues. 

After speaking with most car salesmen I feel like taking a shower.   [puke] 

We bought a car once just because the salesman wasn't and asshole.

 [puke] 

GTI, just check out the dealer real well.  Bad dealers are their reliability problem

+1

Just for shit and giggles test drive a TDI too, the GTI is more fun (duh!) but the diesel feels faster than it's 140 hp would suggest.
I wish I could've seen the face of the BMW 540 driver that couldn't lose mine in the twisties. Oh wait, I did when I passed him after backing off before a corner and carrying a lot more speed coming out of it.  [evil]

how about a Mini Cooper S?  that thing is fun as hell to drive and has almost as many mods as a Monster.

we have one already :)
i'm a bit spoiled in the handling department because of it too...
unfortunately, we're a 2-car couple (at least SHE thinks we are... i'd like to be a 1-car-4-bikes couple...) We love it to death, most fun car I have ever driven... but it's in the shop every two months. literally. And the people at our dealer SUCK. I'm trying to avoid that with my next car purchase.

I guess i need to qualify the real kicker...
It needs to be an automatic, because I just dont think I can handle the aggravation of the manual around these parts.
The tiptronic in the MINI is perfect, that's why I'm intrigued by the GTI and it's dual clutch setup.

We'll see how today goes, the looks of the 2011 with it's dual exhaut are ever-so-slightly arousing.

As for the mustang, well... I owned a 65 resto-project that never went anywhere (had all the parts, none of the time)...
Which reeled me in on the looks of the 2011 BIG TIME. I also had an 88 5.0, which i loved. After thinking about it, I guess maybe I loved that it was a small car that handled GREAT (after about 2k worth of suspension upgrades), rather than it being a Mustang... Although i loved that 302 sound...

Sigh.

Have driven a Civic Si. Lady's brother has one. Nice car, i dunno, just isn't pushing the right buttons i guess...
All the input is appreciated, keep it coming if you can!

I'm essentially looking for a fast, fun car around 25k that's an automatic.. manual IS a possibility though.
might get into a mazdaspeed 3 today as well..

If you want to avoid the repair shop, get a Toyota.
If you want some serious torque and handling in a sleeper car, the Subaru is a great suggestion.

I keep hearing bad things about the VW's. Even from people that live in Europe. Funny how they prefer to drive Fords over there. Go figure. I can't really give you good advise when I have a thread myself asking for car advise. I am trying to narrow the list by doing test drives. I hate dealing with dealers, but they turn into their asshole selfs when I tell them I'm not looking at buying until next year. When I know what I'm buying, I'll be doing everything else online.

they get paid on commission

and

your telling them you want them to work for no pay

who is the asshole?

+1
Friend of mine just bought a brand new car without going to any dealership once

Some dealers are moving them off commission. You can tell who those guys are because they're assholes from the get go.

 No offense but did you ever consider you may be the problem? How would you like it if someone walked into your place of employment where you work on commission and told you they weren't planning on buying anything, they just wanted to waste your time for a few hours? I bet you'd be thrilled right?

 And not to mention that your not even going to buy from them why you are ready to buy. By your own admission you've stated you're going to buy online. What does that mean exactly? You're going to be one of those "send out 25 inquiries to different dealers and buy from the one who beats the others by $25" type of customers?

 You are the reason why most dealers are the way they are. You bag on them because you think they treat you like shit, but do you treat them any better?


 Again no offense, but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You mean to tell me that they made a purchase where they spent many thousands of dollars and didn't even test drive the vehicle or go look at it to see if it was comfortable or how felt to sit inside?

 Thats just brilliant!  [roll]

Wrong side of the bed? So let's use your same logic. What you're telling us is that you're the idiot that walks into a dealer without doing any homework and takes the first "deal" he finds. When someone walks into a dealer, he is a potential customer regardless whether he is buying now or next year. Most people will remember either a good or bad experience. If I go to a store and you treat me like shit, then I'm not buying from you. Now, that does not mean I will not buy from that dealer, depends on the deal. And unlike what you people might or might not think of me, I am not an asshole in real life, I just play one on the interwebz. As soon as I walk into the dealer I set the proper timeline expectation.

you would think there would be a market for car salesmen who werent raging pricks

But what would you feel about the guy selling one of those?

A less-than-raging prick car salesman salesman sounds like a bad, bad man.

I've found that the guys in the "internet" departments are not that bad. You get to emailback and forth and they do get a sense that you've done your homework.

I still don't have a sense of what you're looking for.

I bought a house to live in having never slept in it.

And I've gone to a number of dealerships to buy cars-it's the exception, not the rule I get treated with any sort of respect. I don't buy from those guys. Sorry Tom-there's a long history of shady car salesmen-you current guys will have to work hard to overcome it.

 Fortunately I won't have to. My dealership was recently voted National Pre-owned Dealer of the year. We do about 85% of our business through repeat customers and referrals. FYI-The national average is about 11%. It just amazes me that people go into a dealership with a chip on their shoulder and expect the dealer to be happy to deal with them. Why is it ok to treat the salesperson your dealing with like shit and expect to be treated like a king?


 I have never taken the first deal I find. Thats not what you said. What you said was you told the dealer you weren't going to be buying until next year. So my question is what could you possibly gain from shopping now with the exception of feeling out the dealer which you also stated wouldn't matter because you would be buying it online. Next year the models will have changed and there's a very good possibility the sales person you spoke with won't be there anyway and the deal they offer won't be even close. If you're talking about new vehicles the programs change every month so what you may be offered now is not going to be the same when you come back 3 months from now.

 I have dealt with a lot of folks who have come in and stated they weren't buying for a while. Most of the time it's pure bullshit. They are just trying to lessen the pressure from the salesperson. They wrongly assume that telling him that they won't be in the market for a while will make him less inclined to try and make a deal. I have always treated those customers with respect but it's my job to try and get them to buy now while they are in the store. I find it very difficult to believe that you would visit a bunch of different dealerships to get a feeling for how you were going to be treated in 3-6 months from now. Why not just wait until you were ready to buy instead of wasting everyone's (including your) time? Please tell me whats the point of walking into a dealership if you're not interested in buying something. Do you walk into the supermarket and just browse? No, you go when you want to buy something.

 Additionally I find it amusing how everyone perceives car dealers/salespeople. To be honest, the customers are worse than the dealers will ever be. They will look you right in the eye and lie to you. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "the dealer down the street offered me $1000 more for my trade" only to call them and find out the customer is full of shit. What most customers don't know is how small the car business is. Because of the high turnover you end up knowing salepeople/managers from all over the place. Contrary to popular belief, we do talk to one another. It's very common to call another dealer to discuss trade values of their product. If I get a brand that we don't sell, I will absolutely call another dealer to see how hot the product is or to see if they may be interested in it.

 [roll] [roll] [roll] [roll] [roll] [roll] [roll]
thanks for all the suggestions guys.
impreza is on the list for a test drive.
took the GTI out today, and absolutely loved it. more along the lines of the type of handling and acceleration i'm looking for. much less torque steer than the Cooper S as well, very sporty and fun to drive. love it in the "carbon steel" color, and the dual gate trans is good fun!

speaking of fords... i HAVE considered waiting for the 2012 focus to hit the markets... i'm intrigued by it for sure.


we all have different dealership experiences. some of us worked as salesmen as well. everyone's opinions are different, and it's a free country... so voice them as necessary, just be polite  [beer]  [beer]


hey monstermash... got any used GTI's?  ;D

For me buying a car through a dealership is very stressful.  Opening the door in the parking lot and the stares of the salespeople do not give me a warm IZ_ feeling.  I feel like they want to squeeze as much cash out of me as possible.  The pushing of all the stupid extras like interior/exterior treatments, warranties, and such piss me off.  A transaction should be of benefit to both parties and I feel like they are always trying to rape me.  Maybe it's just me.  Last new car we bought was the best car transaction I've ever done.  Polite, and not pushy sales guy.  Followed up professionally and showed respect.  We bought the car couple of months after meeting him and test driving it.  

good luck on your choice Corey.  [thumbsup]

I personally love going to dealerships and getting the "pit" boss wanting to come meet me before I'm heading out.  :-X  The dealership I've purchased three cars in and have sent countless people to is a Benz dealer down the road.  I like their service and have tried their GMC dealer to see if it's the ownership that helps......and it does.  Those who have no repeat business will dye off one day - being in sales myself I know this all too well.  In the end I go to dealerships where average tenure for employees is higher, there's a reason for this. 

Absolutely he did, bought a new F-150, he's had three in the past, knew this one would be better than the older ones, picked his option level and had them duke it out.  The winning dealer showed up at his house with the new pickup, he signed, they drove away in the old one.  He couldn't be happier with the new one or the transaction.

I don't want to paint all dealers with the same brush. My wife needs a new car and we're considering either certified preowned or new for the first time ever. The one Toyota dealer we went to was super helpful and we'll likely buy there once we've crunched all numbers. The other one heard "used", turfed us over to the budget trade in lot and the guy behind the desk was a total cartoon of sleazy used car dealer. We won't be back.

We're looking now to figure out exactly what we want and to weigh our options. We aren't planning on actually purchasing until the end of the year when the model end close outs happen. Going out of pocket on such an expense will likely result in 3 or 4 trips to the dealership in all before we drop $12-16k (we're buying a Corolla).

Generally my first step in buying a new car is, of course, deciding what to buy.  Then I go on the web to get an idea of out the door price availability, incentives, etc.  Now I am ready to go to the dealer.  Just like Ducati dealers, not all car dealers are the same.  At the dealer I will find out more than just price.  I want to see older as well as newer cars in the shop.  The shop should also be reasonably clean and organized.  The techs should seem reasonably happy.  No older cars?  Likely customers don't come back after the warranty is up.  If I can hang around the service writer's desk and waiting room with a little discretion and ease drop I will.  Then I may take a trip to a few other dealers. I will also see what people say about the dealers.  Of course, some dealer evaluation may happen when selecting the car.  Keep in mind, every dealer will have some unhappy customers.  Read between the lines.

Last winter we decided to buy a new car, an Audi A4 Avant Quatro.  The first dealer I went to was the most convenient.  Two trips there and both trips made me want to go home and take a shower.  A look at the internet and I was correct.  There were two other dealers that seemed to be decent.  I went to one, sat down with a gentleman who was truly a sales adviser, not a salesman.  We were able to find and test drive in stock, which was great because we would be able to own it before Jan 1 and get a tax break.  Did we get it for the price the internet claimed we could get it for?  No, but damn close and an extra electronic key was thrown in to sweeten the deal.  Think about it.  Is $50, or even $200 significant over the period you own the car?  Can a bad dealer cost you more than you save?  The dealer we didn't buy the car from was known for bad service that could cost you a fortune in lost service and mental health over a routine warranty repair or a basic service.

The dealer will try and make money somehow.  Good dealers make money by running an honest, competent business.  Bad dealers low ball and get the money in a less than ethical fashion.  What comes to mind is a Buick my dad bought from a discount mega dealer.  Being a teenager, the first thing I did was try the radio.  Why does it sound like shit?  I took a closer look.  It was a cheap clone of the Delco radio that should have been there.

Anyway, back to my dealer.  There is an available engine performance upgrade that bumps horsepower from 211 to 261HP and torque from 258 to 305 ft lbs.  Well, you know I just had to have that.  They accidentally overcharged me.  I didn't call them immediately to straighten the bill out.  Some time went on, so I figured I might as well wait for the credit card statement to come in so the numbers would bee in front of me.  I opened the statement and they already corrected the overcharge without even being called.

I'm a big believer in a good deal is getting what you paid for.  If you are getting more than you paid for you better figure out why before you make the plunge.  If milk is on sale at least check the date.  Even then realize it may be spoiled.

 I wish we did but we only have one VeeDub in stock at the moment. It's an 07 Jetta Wolfsburg with 19K on the clock. I'm a huge VW fan and the new style GTI is really nice. I had the opportunity to drive a newer style R32 and all I can say is WOW! It has a great mixture of power, style, and sophistication. It also has awesome brakes. We were driving it on this back road doing about 45 MPH when I told my passenger to hold on. I mashed the brakes as hard as I could and the thing stopped faster than anything else I've ever driven. The only way to stop a car faster is to drive it into a tree! Lol.

 If you're considering a pre-owned VW I would suggest buying one from a VW dealer and have it VW assured (certified). If you're local to the New England area I can point you in the right direction and make sure you're treated right.

 Also, I don't know how experienced you are with a vehicle purchase but if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a pm and I'll try and help any way I can.

congrats your sealership is doing something right


models generally don’t change a huge amount
finding the right dealer is just as important as finding the right car
if the sales person I spoke to isn’t there  and they turn over that often then there is a reason for that and I prob wont deal with that dealership

ironically when I bought a VW the salesperson I dealt with the first time was no longer at that dealership but I had his number so bought a car from him where he was now


how is buying bread and milk got anything to do with spending $30K on a car ???

big dollar purchases often have a long lead time

plenty of people go to car dealers on weekends when they have some time free , check out some new cars , see whats out there , same applies to houses

I went looking for my vehicle as I was in the process of purchasing a business and it would be a business vehicle , I didn’t need it right then , I needed to know what vehicles were out there, what would suit my needs and what the lead time would be for when I needed it

When I did need it I made the calls and bought it straight away with no hassle

they may or may not need to buy something right now, but it may be in the next 6-12 months and are looking for info

good salespeople treat everyone who rolls through the door the same

many salesman have lost a sale by judging the look of the person

Back to the Mustang, the '11 V6 cars can be had with the same brakes and suspension as the GT; check the option list closely and you may have to order since most dealers will miss checking that box when ordering stock.

The '11 GT will run a road course neck and neck with a BMW M3.....check youtube for a Motor Trend vid.  ;)

If you liked the GTI, you'll like a Subaru. I love sport hatchbacks. I would love a R32. Also check the Lancer hatchback. It looks great!

Mash, you got me all wrong. I am in no way talking deals here. Unfortunately I don't know enough people that own the cars that I'm test driving. Unfortunately towards the end of the year I will not have time to go to the dealers and test drive. My plan is to narrow down the cars to 1 and buy from my local dealer who will be servicing. I should also clear up that the only salesperson that has been less than stelar in the way they they treated me was from the Honda dealership, which is where I take my current car for service. I love their service department and Hondas really do sell themselves. The guy might also have been having a bad day. The Cadillac dealer was an older gentleman that was not as outgoing, but he was knowledgable. The Acura salesperson was very outgoing and he was very patient with my son. The Acura salesperson really sold me n that dealer and it helps that they have probably the best customer satisfaction in the area. When it is time to buy, I will be trying to contact the same person (except if we decide on the Honda). When the time comes to buy, I will talk deals then. Like you mentioned it is not worth talking about it now.

 This is a little contradicting no?

You know there is a new technology called "email". This technology allows you to contact people over a new machine called a "computer". Many people have access to this technology today and it allows you to have a conversation with people without having to be in front of them. You should look into it.

and 1 guy at a good dealer in the DC Metro area!!! 

 ;D ;D ;D

amen!!!


sounds like a "Days of Thunder" rental car scenes moment awaiting.....LOL

So the VW's reliability issues are more due to bad service? If I might express an opinion here, I think we are expecting too much from a company that is basically the economy brand of Europe. I know that we pay a premium here for them, but it's still meant to be the cheaper alternatives. We haven't discussed the reliability of GM products.

Ummm...far from the economy brand in Europe.  Or Asia for that matter. 

Well, you're right. I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here. If you pay a premium, you should expect reliability.

the problem lies with the fact that some dealers are not investing in their personell to get them the training for to do the proper repairs and fault tracing and diagnostic  and other capabilities they should be equipped to handle readily to save money and have them at the ready to do services, as apposed to being out of pocket to get trained...and in multiline dealers, some techs get basic training to service multiple lines as apposed to have their guys segmented a manufacturer and trained fully. reliability in those reports you all read comes down to things like "fixed right the 1st time" and "addressed all of the customer's concerns" and various things that are straight up yes or no questions in the surveys that don't allow for the very reasonable circumstances and explanations that should accompany those oversimplified answers...

the other thing that does happen is that the consumer doesn't bother to read the 300+ page owners manual for thier new vehicle and something happens that coincides with something that the whore of a saleperson who is trying to make 5 car deals on the same day didn't explain to the customer when making his "perfect delivery" or on the "6 position and demo drive" ( sorry Mash-not directed at you per sey, but the stereotype of whoring salespeople)...so it falls on the service department to explain something that they should know already and a service order is written up and dinks that ratio of cars in service versus number of RO's written on vehicles that the bean counter survey companies count without explanation against a brand or model....all of these types of things and others figure into the whole "reliability reports" you are trolling the interwebs to find and yet may not accurately reflect the actual model's capabilities and steadfast actual reliability....so don't pay as much stock in some of those reports as you think....if you have a question...go to a reputable dealer and then ask the service people what to look for and what to steer away from...look at what cars are parked for service of broken issues and what are there for just maintenance....the picture and focus may change a bit...

Keep the neon and throw my motor (srt4 neon) in it..  bigger turbo and ya got 30mpg with over 400+ hp and a nice sleeper..

That right there is great advise. I have made it a point to befriend some of the service guys, be it while servicing my bike or my cars. They will straight up tell you what are the issues and service intervals you are looking at.

Glad to hear you liked the GTI. [thumbsup] I have had my '10 GTI for 8 months and am very happy with it. I've been driving VW's for 9 years and have always liked their products for reliability and fun-factor. My local dealer (who I support for service and who I have bought 3 VW's from) is top notch, which for me has always been a strong reason for driving VW.

If you're into performance mods you should check out APR. I had my GTI's ECU reflashed and the power gains are really impressive, especially considering no hardware was changed out.

Check it out:  http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_trans.html (http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_trans.html)

It should be none of the car salesman's concern when I am going to buy a car.

You have to see what is out there, get pricing, do your due diligence, and then buy.



I don't think testing out a car and buying several months later is a bad thing.


Car Salesman want you to make snap decisions. The one VW dealer here tried that with me. Kept emailing me telling me how the car was being prepped, it was being detailed, it was shiny in the showroom waiting for me to pick up.

The first thing I said when I went to look "My wife and I are considering trading our 2004 in for a 2010 clean diesel jetta. They have more room and we like them. However, we are not fully sure if we want to buy right now, but we are starting the process at exploring this option."

If that guy doesn't want to do his job, then he can tell me to pound sand, until then..........treat your customer well.

 

I would love to get a Skoda over here. I'm excited about the Fiat 500 coming soon. After my wife's new Corolla, I think I'm in line for a 500.

I believe we're getting the Abarth too.

That could complicate my decision making process!  [thumbsup]

eesh... and i was excited for the euro(ish) focus!
love the abarth... ugh, maybe the waiting game IS in order...
christ, this sucks!

hey red....
go pens! :P

Cyrus, WTF are you smoking? Do you work for free? Do you put in the kinds of hours they do? Do you have any idea or concept of what or why customers like you make sales people twitchy and irritable?

1st.) it is VERY much a sales persons business as to when you are going to buy a car. He is there to SELL cars, not display them. They are SALES people, not retail consultants. This is the most basic thing in a transaction with said representative, as he needs to know if he is wasting his time with you as apposed to helping someone else who needs that time for to actually purchase something.

2nd. ) yes, you do, as a smart consumer have to do your homework somewhat and see what is what beforehand IF you are a smart consumer and not an emotional purchaser. Not every customer is a smart consumer. How many times have you purchased something, anything, regardless of value or money spent, based on just a simple desire or want? It happens with cars too. I had a guy buy a car from me because of the sound system and nothing else once. People have different values when it comes to their spending habits and what they are willing to buy and when and how. Not everyone has to follow the Jud school of thinking. They aren't wrong for doing otherwise.

3rd. ) Testing out a car and buying several months later of the same model and year and everything else is not a bad thing, but looking at a 2010 car with package 2 options in SEL trim is different than looking at a 2011 Model with package 1 options in SE trim. Besides, do you remember EVERY nuance and detail from a test ride from outside a 72 hour range? If you do, that is great, but unusual because more than 95% of new car consumers don't, especially when you start looking at many different cars. Those details start to run together and it becomes hard to distinguish, and that is especially moreso as time passes.

4th. ) Car SALES people are there to sell a car, through whatever means and tools they have available to them to use. They should use them as they see best based on personality types and experience. There are some that just don't have years of that or the tools and hence why maybe YOU had the experience you did. I am speculating on that front, but it is reasonable based on how you seem to present yourself.

5th. ) What you said, whether on Tiff's behalf or however you may have really phrased it, is how most every customer starts a transaction like that. THAT is normal. You sounded like, from what you say above, more than 70% of people who actually drive a car out of a dealership, any dealership, of any brand. People don't generally walk into a showroom to just look, unless their car is there for service and they have nothing better to do.

6th. ) HE IS doing his job. Why don't you go pound sand for wasting HIS valuable time. If you saw how much of a commision some of these guys make on a car sale nowadays, and you broke it down to how much time he spent with a customer in order to make that sale ( and I am talking from 1st initial contact,whether by phone, EMail, or walk-in, until delivery and you take the car home off of their lot), into an hourly wage, you'de NEVER work for that kind of wage. I would be more than willing to bet that, based on the kind of money he made, when it comes to a customer like you.

whatever tools?  I've been in sales 15 years+ and have never used "whatever tools" to sell anything.  I match a customer with their needs and if my product is suitable.  We all want the shiny DB9 or similar car but seriously, that commentary makes us all look bad.  A good sales person will understand his customer first! 

now, lets get back to regular programming

I smoke parliament lights or Marlboro lights. I also throw in a Perdomo cigar every now and then.

1. I get paid for 40 hours a week. I work on average 60-70 hours a week. I just got off a conference call with individuals in a far off land. Not sure car sales reps have that responsibility or have a job where they manage millions of dollars.

2. Yes, I know quite a bit about the car industry. My cousin is an attorney for the state automobile dealers association.

3. One of my very good friends was a sales manager for 15 years before he moved in to Finance Manager.

I know what I am talking about.


due diligence.

Read it . Learn it. Love it. Absorb it.

Some of us budget money, time frames, expenses, etc.

When you live your life that way, you plan ahead several months before chunking down a lot of money or signing your name on a loan.

Sorry I can't walk in to a dealership and make a snap decision and purchase a car on the spot.

If that occurs........that is a damn good salesperson and a bad consumer.

That is Jud logic. Works in my life.

exactly my point, you assess your customer and do what you need to do and use what you have at your access to meet the customers needs for to make a sale. The tools, whatever they may be, are at your disposal to use as you see fit. This could be the phone, email, or in person communications, the use of rebates and incentives, or perhaps even just dangling a bright shiny new "fill in the blank" to provoke the emotions in said purchase. The point is, you, as a sales person (whether commissioned or rated on general sales numbers or however your performance may be evaluated) spend your time and energy to make that connection for to develop a speculative opportunity into a paying consumer. If you are in sales and you are not doing that, then either you are lying to yourself or you need to get out of the business.  Does it always work out, or can you always meet and satisfy the needs of your consumer? Maybe not, but you are there to make that attempt and use whatever tools you have at your disposal to do so.

Maybe you don't like my statement because I oversimplified, but it doesn't make it any less true. Also, FWIW, a good salesman isn't always defined by the consumer. A good salesman, or sales person, is one that produces results, regardless of circumstance.




1.) I work 50 or so hours a week and get paid based on a 40 hour week and go above and beyond for some of my customers, regardless of the dollar amount involved, in the name of good customer service and doing the right thing as well as my job. I try and exceed my customers expectations when possible. I don't do it for free though, nor do I expect anyone to work for free. There is always some level of compensation somewhere in the mix, whether immediate or not.

2.) I know a bunch of people that work in the IT industry, does that mean I am a certified expert now? I also know a shit ton of people that don't do what I do, and does that make them experts at my job? That logic is about as water holding as a piece of tissue paper. Knowing someone who does something or other, does not equate to you knowing what they are doing and dealing with and all aspects involved, and to assume that ideal is just ignorant. Most people do what they do for a good chunk and period of time, in order to be good and successful at it. Chatting with someone over a detail or 2 or an aspect of things doesn't make you any better at their job as it would for them to be any good at your job if things were reversed.

3.) so, he is/was a good sales person and has evolved his results into furthering himself up the chain. Who knows how long he has been in F&I now, but while the basic concept of the game hasn't changed, the tactics used on a daily basis and some of the tools surrounding the game may have. Does that mean you know his job now? See number 2 that I just wrote. Along the same lines, I knew a guy that lived in Cleveland who was a bartender at the Winking Lizard. Does that mean I know all about Cleveland now? I am just using your logic to an extreme to make my point.

Due Diligence....well...I can understand using a financial industry trading and disclosure concept in application to car buying(when you are actually making that purchase, not wasting someone's time)...but I am certainly not going to make it my life like you make it sound like in yours. I am not an analyst or an accountant or CPA or otherwise bean counter. I deal with reality of peoples emotions and dollars and comparing to my competition everyday. You have to be flexible and able to do so on the fly with little to no notice. You have to do it without establishing a marriage to those movements, should situations  change, all the while nurturing your relationship with them.

Jud logic may have turned out without many hiccups for you thus far, but your logic in my world has more holes than a cheese grater. I find many problems with your logic, and I am sure I am not the only one.

We have differing opinions and you are right, my logic is probably flawed, like most people's in the world, I see the world through my eyes as I live it and enjoy.

I am not in sales, but work for a sales company, therefore, I can understand your wasting time comments. Not sure cars and medical devices are even remotely related, but sales is sales, and people's time is, people's time.

back to the originally scheduled posting of car shopping; it's tough out there.

It's simple. A guy walks into a dealership. it's up to the salesperson to sell the car right now. If the customer does not buy right now, then you should have made enough of an impression for the customer to either come back or at least recommend that dealership if an acquaintance is looking for that specific brand. Retail is the same everywhere regardless of what you're selling. If the salesperson can't close the deal immediately then they lost a battle. If the person goes away feeling like he's never going to go back there again, then they lost the war. Simple.

Now back to subject. When is the Fiat 500 going to be sold over here? I presume it will be sold through some other dealer like BMW selling minis. The 500 is a weird car. It's not as good looking as the other hatchbacks. If I was in the market, I would wait for the Focus, but would probably have the Impreza at the top of the list.

My understanding is that Chrysler selected 165 dealers in 119 markets around the country to become Fiat dealers.

More info at the following links, although the on-sale date is not specified.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/31/report-fiat-wants-to-sell-50-000-500s-in-the-u-s-through-165-d/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/31/report-fiat-wants-to-sell-50-000-500s-in-the-u-s-through-165-d/)

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/11/chrysler-chooses-600-dealerships-for-possible-fiat-franchises/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/11/chrysler-chooses-600-dealerships-for-possible-fiat-franchises/)

50,000? That's ambitious to say the least. It will have to share the market, so it will have to be much cheaper than the mini. Plus it's an uglier car. I've never driven one so I have no idea how it handles. Is it comparable to the Golf?

weren't Fiat's historically unreliable?

more comparable to a Polo or perhaps a Chevy Aveo or Hyundai Accent.


yes...the reputation of Fiat from their previous sales jaunts in the US from 20+ years ago spurned such regular acronyms as F.I.A.T. = Fix It Again Tony and the Italian tune up of throttling it to the roof for a minute or few and giving it back to customer...their success here was only marginally better than that of Renault and Puegot...

Very ambitious.

Particularly when small cars in general, although affordable and good on gas mileage, do not sell well in this country.

Add in a reborn marque and the skeletons in the closet of their reputation...tough road ahead.

I wish them well. 

Alfa Romeo has some great designs that we can't get here either.  Fiat is the door opening to that happening again.

I agree about Alfa's. They don't even have a good reputation in Europe, but they are dead sexy!! The other problem I see is that people would need to go into the Chrysler dealer.

Well, there is that too.

It will be interesting to see how they set up the dealer body.

I would have to assume it will be similar to Mini or Smart - separate showrooms for Fiat.  Perhaps something like the Scion concept. 

the problem with Fiat though for this whole thing is association...

with Mini, you think BMW and what is the hought association there? positive? for a Mini customer, you betcha...

with Smart, you are at a Benz dealer and what is that association? rather positive...

with a Scion...you are at a Toyota dealer and that association generally is more positive than not, even in light of recent misgivings with Toyota...

But for a Fiat customer to be walking into the range of a Chrysler showroom....it is going to take some hot sales pitching and ad's and work to get a customer past that general bad taste of the associated brand....

Ding ding ding!!

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Renault and Puegot's are pretty much what everyone in europe drives (in my personal viewing experience, no concrete facts to support that. I know the britt's like honda's).

Did they import some shitty car when they sold them here or has the brand in general gotten more reliable?

Peugeot, not Puegot, generally look cool. I place my standards on what Top Gear reviews and I don't remember the last time they reviewed one. If they don't even waste their time on it, then I would probably not try it either.

Renault LeCar's, Fuego's, and anything they brought here turned lemon and soured the American car buying market...and for Peugeot..it was similar with the cars they brought here....504,505, 205's all got a bad wrap...American's in the 80's were very finicky about buying these cars...and the manufacturers were slow to cater to parts and service supply for them....there are other greats that came here and failed too...Look at Merkur, Sterling and Alfa Romeo just to name a few...

I still don't know why people buy Range Rover's.

I know two people with them and I think they are in rental cars more than their ungodly expensive hunk of metal.

All the folks I know in Italy drive Fiats, Volvos and VWs.

VWs do very well, they are not luxury cars.  The Lupo is a great seller esp with 80 mpg.

yeah, well the 1980s were not good years for American cars either...
 [puke]
(http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/01/04/09/51/1985_cadillac_eldorado-pic-14517.jpeg)

 [puke] [puke] [puke]
(http://learnsomethingnewtoday.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/1981_buick_skylark.jpg)

I was just going to mention that you really can't put the 80's in perspective without a line or seven

then I saw your avatar

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

for posterity:

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/deress/more-bear-I-make the beast with two backsing-love-COCAINE.jpg)

Chrysler dealers are being given first option but there will be plenty of independent Alfa/Fiat dealers.

My cousin had a "K" car that ran for like 400k.


Of course it was the ugliest car known to man, was awful to drive, but the sucker lasted for some reason.

we had a Fuego and Uno in Venezuela and it lasted for what seems EVER! Maybe the ones shipped here sucked but Fiats are everywhere in South America and believe me the roads suck.

So were Ducatis, yet you still bought one.

My 1999 Monster has only had one issue: the starter died in 2010.

Other than that........18k carefree miles.

Sure, might not be a lot of miles for those of you in year round riding or lots of free time, but my bike has been maintenance free outside of a few valve adjustments and belts.

I wouldn't call that "unreliable"

It has never left me stranded.

Now my 2004 S4r has left me stranded twice............I ran out of gas twice  [bang] [bang]

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Were unreliable. Were. Past tense. Historically. Notoriously. Used to be. No longer are. Prior to now.

I could go on.

Depends on how long ago you define "unreliable" is.

my bike is 11 years old.

If we are talking 80's.........maybe Duc's were. I have no idea.

"Historical" implies you know.....more than 11 years to me.

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i313/blutrkdrp/ducati.jpg)

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

My ex-girlfriend in colleges Dad had a MG.


I am not sure that thing ever ran more than a month or two before it broke again.


Now that is unreliable.

only after Texas Pacific Group got them back on track.  :P

Fiat changed hands a few years ago and have been doing great things. Did you happen to catch the top gear episode when they were looking for the best small car? In the end, they decided based on popularity that all three of them were wrong because they completely forgot about the fiat 500.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/fiat/500 (http://www.topgear.com/uk/fiat/500)


And yes, Fiat had a bad name from their last try to sell cars in the US. I sincerely don't see a repeat on the horizon with their QC issues resolved and Americans being far more interested in smaller cars than in prior decades.

You mean more lack of interest in SUV's. Most people still buy sedans.

my feeling about Fiat's 80's foray into the US is that American car owners (IN GENERAL) treat their cars like shit and know nothing about maintenance, as opposed to European drivers who pay heavy taxes on cars and want to keep them running.  Plus, it's my understanding (esp in Germany) that very minor maintenance issues will fail inspection.

I worked on Fiats in the '70s.  At that time in Europe Fiats were... ummm...not very good, but a good buy for the buck, er, lira.  In some ways Fiats were well engineered, perhaps to well engineered.  By that, I mean many components were designed well enough to handle the job but not much more.  Fiats coming into the US were a little heavier due to our safety standards.  Remember the huge bumpers of  '74?  Door side beams?  A little added weight?  Shortened life of wheel bearings, struts, cv joints.  Raised suspension to meet US bumper height standards didn't help either. 

The US emissions package left a lot to be desired too, though this could be fixed by some desmogging, carb work and distributor recurving.  Then there was the problem of delivering a strange Italian car for a price we would pay, for example, a safety recall of Fiat 128s for premature structural rust because US models were not undercoated.

Many European manufacturers suffered similar problems due to the cost and difficulty of meeting US specs.  Off hand Alfa Romeo, Citroen, Renault, MG and Peugeot are a fewcome to mind.


Very true, also true of some dealers.

When I was a teen, our neighbor had an X1/9 which he meticulously maintained.  He did a lot of modification to the car, and I think he removed a bunch of stuff.  By coincidence or design, he was Italian (not jersey shore type, real off the boat from Parma).. 

He took almost every hose off the engine, which back then seemed crazy to me, but now i realize he took off all the smog crap (almost all CARB stuff).  I don't know what else he did, but that car was awesome.  I still want one.  Maybe after I finish the GTV.

A freind of mine still has one.  Beetle slow, but it handles great and is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

2010 GTI 2-door, Candy White. 2.0 TSI w/ 6-speed manual gear box, 18-inch "detroit" wheels w/ summer performance tires, and GTI Protection Package (fancy floor mats & shit..)

Picking it up monday. Pics to come.

[thumbsup]

Tom,
Sorry I didn't even call you... I got a little carried away, but feel like I got a good deal... considering the cash they offered me for my shitty Plymouth Neon was WAY more than I anticipated, and well above what i was getting offered at other places. Got a great interest rate, and a good out the door price, pretty much in line with the averages from Edmunds. Looks like before Tax, Title & License, I was either right at, or just above invoice... Not bad on a brand new car i think ;D It's affordable for me, and I love it, that's what matters.

The folks at the dealership are awesome too, strictly a VW shop and they've been in biz since 79...

Can't wait to pick it up! PICS TO COME!

^^^ Nice  [thumbsup]

 [thumbsup]
you'll love it, I miss the one we had but my TDI is pretty damn cool too.

Congratulations [thumbsup]

Summer performance tires are a great move and you can't go wrong with white.  Congrats!

Congrats on the purchase!!  I have loved my GTI (2000 with VR6) and it has been a great car!!  I was seriously looking at replacing it with one of the new ones, but have decided that I need something that can tow...

CONGRATS Corey!....not sure which package of options you got, hopefully you got the RNS510 touchscreen NAV with integrated Bluetooth and I-pod connection...

Might didn't come with the NAV, but does have the touchscreen integrated Bluetooth, I-Pod connector in center console, and a cool media card input slot.

However, effing I-Pod cable already has a short in it. I chalked up this to a design flaw. The cable it too long for the spot to place your Ipod, so you had to "coil it so it would fit in the assembly. Called up the dealer, no worries, new one is already in

and guess what?


It is shorter this time..........



Congrats on your purchase  [thumbsup]

My wife is a happy 2010 TDI Cup owner.

I am super pumped. Today is taking forever, can't wait to pick that thing up.
No navigation or touch screen, has the standard stereo in it which i prefer. I'm not a big fan of touch screens in cars, just personal preference. DOES have the integrated bluetooth and ipod connection though.

Turns out its a 2011 too, salesman was mistaken... so awesome for me! hah.

It's pretty much a bare bones deal, not much in the way of options aside from the wheels and GTI protection kit. But it has everything i WANT, and nothing more, which is why i was able to afford it.

He had 4-door that was TRICKED out... but it was like 30k with all the shit that was on it...

wellp... after some extensive driving and ear-to-ear grinning, it's a bit too dark to take pictures ;D
sorry! coming soon!

Glad you're enjoying it!

8) 8)

This thread is worthless without pics!

here you go... HTH..

(http://www.dorifun.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/fat_ass.jpg)

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That's sexy!

I knew there was a reason i can't eat cottage cheese.



 :P

what about cottage cheese cheese?

Even worse.

Sorry it took so long...
PICS!

http://picasaweb.google.com/coreytiani/GTIFirstWash?feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/coreytiani/GTIFirstWash?feat=directlink)

(https://lh5.ggpht.com/_uS9JT_rOu_I/TKIOH2QHQpI/AAAAAAAAAPc/It03O68auX4/s800/IMAG0070.jpg)

(https://lh5.ggpht.com/_uS9JT_rOu_I/TKIOIT1h3tI/AAAAAAAAAPc/EYLPMG7orBA/s800/IMAG0071.jpg)

First wash and wax.
www.poorboysworld.com (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://)

EX-P Sealant is the shit. Used the Wheel Sealant too, great stuff.

Pretty good pics for a cell phone too!

I can't see the pics  :'(

Should be good now.

looks sweet Corey!

Thanks!
These pictures make me realize just how shitty the pavement on my street has gotten... Can't believe it...

 [thumbsup]

That thing just screams fun!

they are, the 2.0T is an angry, impatient little engine

only if you let APR hyper tune it to the point just short of no return like their current Stage 4 2.0T

APR Stage 4 Development Teaser - UPDATED! Now With More Runs! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtO2dh8BCPA&feature=email#normal)

Hah.. Yea... An APR tune (probably just Stage 1) is somewhere in its future, although probably not for at least a year. I want to drive it as is, that way I can really feel the difference once I start upping the ante a bit.

It is the most fun I have ever had on four wheels, short of taking my old 88 mustang over a 5 foot drop at 40 mph in a park... (didnt end well)

just look at doing the REVO flash which is a lifetime upgradable software...you pay once...as you upgrade...you get reflashed no extra charge for the appropriate mods you've done...

interesting! i will definitely take a look!
right now im thinking some sort of flash, intake, and exhaust (love the neuspeed system) is my short plan.
suspension is fine as is, i don't want to go too much lower around these parts, but i may stiffen up the rear with a better anti-sway bar... This is one great car right off the lot.

for the exhaust...GHL if you can get one...most beautiful welds and cleanest system I have seen on any of the GTi's....has a nice burbly sound too!

My wife's was stock and I found it still had an angry little personality to it, if you were stuck behind someone slow and then went to ease past them when they finally decided to turn, the little bastard would spin up the tires and make a scene even though you barely gave it any throttle.  [laugh]
With a tune it must just be absolutely hilarious.

My TDI has a definite personality to it as well, strong but quite a bit more subdued.

yea.... i try to be careful with the throttle ;D
those pirelli's are EXPENSIVE! $900 for a four-pack, eesh.

ahhh...but when you purchase your new set of shoes from your local VW dealer ( provided the dealer is purchasing their tires through the VW Tire program) ...your OEM replacement tires come with a nationally backed at any VW dealer road hazard warranty(just keep your proof of purchase in the glove box!)

Nothing up for the MARK VI GTi/Golf Yet on the GHL site...
But the quality looks AWESOME.