Ducati Monster Forum

Hey everyone!
I ride beginner group at Summit Point in WV with only a few track days under my belt (2 at main, and my first at Shenandoah yesterday).  I'm very slow, but trying to learn the right techniques and taking my time learning in small increments. So during left turns I constantly drag the kickstand and shifter, and don't know if I should just not lean the bike any further on that side.  Yesterday during right turns, nothing would drag until eventually my knee hit for this first time (very exciting for me!  ;D ).  A coach told me my body positioning must be uneven, and I'm probably hanging off more on the right. So back to my question, is there any more room for leaning (the bike) on my left side?  The front tire is worn pretty much on the edge, but the back tire isn't quite to the edge.
More questions while I'm posting: should I be using the back brake at all on the track?  My last session I had some back end wobble slowing down from the back straight, and a lap later the back tire screeched and I slid a little bit.  Asking around, the consensus was I should use only the front brake.  I was told with the clutch engaged, rear braking can cause loss of traction.  I wasn't downshifting when I lost traction. It happened in between downshifts.  It would be a big change for me to use ft brake only, being used to using both brakes on the street.  So if I'm using only the front brake on the track, then why not for panic stops on the street?

I should probably mention I have an 08 Monster 695 stock suspension and ride height  :)

It sounds like you may have a combination of things going on.

Stock Monster springs are way too soft for the average rider. Getting your bike sprung for your weight will be the first step.

Second you probably are not hanging off as much as you need to.

Third if you have the little nub on your side stand that can drag regardless...your shifter should not with correct springs and riding position.

I wouldn't lean any more...hard parts dragging is never good.

I don't use my rear brake at the track. I don't have the talent to not lock it up.

What he said  ^^^^

I'll add; just buy an SS or a super bike, less hard parts dragging.  Scraping hard parts is bad.  It usually doesn't end well.

As for the rear brake, go gentle with it.  Your tire shouldn't be screeching.  Most Monster rear brakes are useless.  Your probably on the front brakes hard and are starting to lift the weight off the rear tire.  It might help to move your butt back in the seat when braking.  Get your weight back a little.  Yet don't over do it.

Dragging hardware will eventually bite you if you persist.

Like humorless said, get the bike sprung properly for you, unless you weigh ~140 or so.
How much do you weigh?

The fact that your front tire is worn nearly to the edge shows you shouldn't lean a whole lot further over.
Losing the front isn't generally recoverable for a Novice.

So it'd be worth getting it sorted out before next track day.

lets go with the obvious point from the O.P. and his 1st question....how do you keep from dragging the kickstand? take it off! Were these NESBA, TPM, or Roger Lyle days? If NESBA, I am surprised they let you past tech with it still on to be honest.

I also subscribe to what Humorless said, but in addition, add to get some 1 on 1 instruction to work on some very specific things. While you may be over a bit, your body position may need some fine tuning as well. To wear the front to the edge and not the rear seems odd to me, and something just isn't adding up.


Getting these issues fixed sooner rather than later could be to your benefit given the lack of space to safely crash without an encouter with the tire wall at the Shenandoah circuit and some points on Main as well. I would also , FWIW, look for to do some dates on the Jefferson circuit if you can, which is a much more suited circuit to your machine's capabilities.

I think there are various issues here:

1) Kickstand dragging: Take it off

2) Shifter dragging: Either increase the ride height or buy a track dedicated bike with a sportier seating position. The Monster is considered a standard, so the rearsets are lower. In theory the foot peg should hit before the shifter. Either way I would try to avoid dragging any hard part.

3)Weird tire wear: +1 of what zooom and DP (Humorless) mentioned. You might be putting too much weight forward. I find that the hardest part of proper riding technique is to position your upper body correctly.

Well I weigh 140 lbs, and didn't think I should stiffen anything since I am so light.  But it sounds like I may be wrong.  So if I understand correctly from different posts, I should remove the kickstand but not lean the bike over anymore to avoid metal-to-asphault contact and considering the wear on the front tire.  In addition, sit further back during braking down a straight and hang off a little more.  I have a picture of me through a turn, let me post that up.

(http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad190/maxpower_2009/shenandoah.jpg)

Here we go, I think you can see the kickstand and maybe the shifter on the ground there.  A coach was telling me I should slowly try straightening out my outside arm to push my upper body further into the turn.  I'm assuming the kickstand is easy to remove and install, but I do ride the bike to work /on the street a lot.

I think it was Spidey that gave some of the best advise I've heard. basically he said that you should try to put your head over your wrist. If you notice in your picture you right arm is bent. Straighten it up to push your chest more to the left.

there is also a point where the monster proves what a track bike it isn't.  you may not necessarily be there, but it's out there.

getting your suspension set up specifically for you, by a professional, is the best and first thing you should do.

unless you spend a lot of money modifying it to a point of almost ridiculousness....right fstrblkduc ????

You would need to move the rearsets.

clip-ons, rearsets, suspension, case covers.. the list goes on

For that price, you might as well save up for an SS.

or an already-tracked SV, etc.  tons of them out there.

if you have access to a decently priced SS, then keep it in the family  ;D

There are tons of track bikes out there.

IMO, you're already past what a stock 695 can do on the track.

The picture shows how low the fork is during a turn, the rear is probably the same.

Put some money into your suspension - you will NOT regret it [thumbsup]

Level 1
Raise the rear if your bike has an adjustable ride height rod. Check sag.
New linear springs up front and maybe another oil.

Level 2
Other forks. Other rear spring and shock. Adjust ride height.

Level 3
Different bike.

Have fun [moto]  

It's difficult to drag hard parts on street tires if you're positioning correctly. As duccarlos was saying, think about where your mirror would be and try to bring your face towards that point. Right now, you're way crossed up. Good luck!

Thanks for posting up this question.  I've run into the same problems with my 695.  After 3 track days, I've never been able to get either knee down, but I do find myself dragging the shifter and peg on the left, and the brake pad and peg on the right.

The problem with the 695 is that the rear suspension only has minimal adjustment and the front has no adjustment at all.  The rearsets on the 695 are also set lower than other models such as the S2 and S4's.  Unless you've gotten some advice that I haven't found, the bike is a limiting factor. 

Given my limited experience, I will defer to what sounds like very good advice given above.  The photo...awesome as it is...does look like you are crossed up.  Your upper body is open to the outside of the turn instead of to the inside.  Like others have said, a big tell is that your outside arm is bent.  There are a bunch of good books out there....Keith Code's book and video are my favorite... but all agree that by riding crossed up, you are forcing your bike into a steeper lean angle.  If you hang off correctly....I'm still working on this....you can corner tighter at a higher speed without having the bike banked over as far.  In other words, if you position yourself correctly, you will very likely be dragging knees without having to drag parts of the bike.   [moto] 

 

o Jetbrett and Alan T, for the 695 monsters, to raise up your pegs a little bit, you might consider as a cheap mod/attempt at creating a little more clearance, think about the ST Series Peg lowering plate kit from desmotimes.com used in reverse to raise the peg platforms...just a thought.

I looked at that, but couldn't get it to work....my mechanical/engineering skills are rudimentary to say the least...so it could just be me.  I found that the lowering rod was fully extended at the stock height. It would work great to bring down the height, but not to jack it up. 

Alan T:  I ride a '09 696 and I do track days.  I would not have considered going to the track with the bike stock, so I put on Sato rearsets.  Ended up with the sidestand dragging and the front hobbyhorsing while at Summit Point.  I took the bike to Duc Pond in Winchester, VA.  They put in a spacer in the rear, increased the rear preload, moved up the triple tree to forks connection in the front, added a spacer in the front forks, and put in heavier oil.  After that, I changed out the brake pads myself.  Now, I am faster in the curves, no bad control behavior, and nothing is dragging.  Talk with Donnie at Duc Pond -- he will give you good advice.

Of course, I am not signing a contract with MotoGP for next season, but I knew that was not in the cards.   [thumbsup]