I've got a M1100, and I'm struggling to get the clutch back together.
I broke my clutch hub being an idiot, so I ordered a Vee Two hub from Australia. Pull off the old hub without any problems, mounted the new hub, put all of the pieces back together, and started it up.
Basically, the clutch only slips - there isn't enough pressure from the pressure plate to do anything. I took the caps and springs off, and found that the pressure plate was not pushing hard onto the clutch plates, so I wiggled it a bit and it fit back snug into the assembly. I put the springs and caps back on, and the clutch seemed to hold. I tried to roll the bike in first gear (motor off), and I couldn't budge the bike.
I pull in the clutch lever, and I can roll the bike. Release the clutch lever, and the pressure plate doesn't reengage properly - it's not applying pressure to the plates again.
I disassembled everything, checked it over, and reassembled - same thing. Note that everything is stock, except for the hub, and the clutch is not overly worn. There was no sign of even minor slipping before I mangled the clutch.
Thoughts?
Did you index the pressure plate properly?
There is a mark on the plate and on the stock hub there is a notch on one of the posts...not sure if the vee two hub has a marking.
I did. The vee two has a cut across the top of one of the posts.
Quote from: bigjilm on September 22, 2010, 05:10:58 PM
I did. The vee two has a cut across the top of one of the posts.
I can't say from this distance...
assuming the hub is machined correctly I think I'd try lowering the stack a bit.
Lowering the stack? Can you give me some detail?
Quote from: bigjilm on September 22, 2010, 05:15:54 PM
Lowering the stack? Can you give me some detail?
Sorry...
I mean remove a plate, or replace a 2mm steel with a slightly thinner one (1.5).
The only other thing I can think of is your clutch pushrod is not seated all the way into the slave, or the 'pill' in the pressure plate causing it to over travel.
I'll tear it down tonight again and try this - thanks for the advice.
Could the new hub be holding the stack higher than the stock one? If I recall correctly, the first plate on the stack is steel, so it's position is determined by the slot on the new hub, which would ultimately dictate the location of the top of the stack.
If that's true, then would executing on something like this solve my problem?
http://wolfcentral.net/multistrada/quietyerclutch.htm (http://wolfcentral.net/multistrada/quietyerclutch.htm)
I don't have any old friction plates lying around, but I'd bet my mechanic would part with a few if I asked nice.
Quote from: bigjilm on September 23, 2010, 06:51:30 AM
I'll tear it down tonight again and try this - thanks for the advice.
Could the new hub be holding the stack higher than the stock one? If I recall correctly, the first plate on the stack is steel, so it's position is determined by the slot on the new hub, which would ultimately dictate the location of the top of the stack.
If that's true, then would executing on something like this solve my problem?
http://wolfcentral.net/multistrada/quietyerclutch.htm (http://wolfcentral.net/multistrada/quietyerclutch.htm)
I don't have any old friction plates lying around, but I'd bet my mechanic would part with a few if I asked nice.
IMO if the hub is machined so it holds the stack higher and the pressure plate wont seat then it's machined wrong.
You shouldn't have to go through that to make the clutch not slip.
i'm not sure it this would affect the dimensions of the clutch hub, but i believe the vee two hub doesn't have the cush drive like the OE one.
on the OE clutch assembly, the plates stack starts with 2 steel plates, then friction-steel-friction-steel-etc.
No cush - you're right. That's all in the center of the hub, so I don't think that has an affect on the stack height.
I think I'm going to measure the stack height and compare it to spec. While I have the pressure plate off, I'll check the stuff mentioned by "dp".
Is the clutch pushrod bent?
With the OEM style of 2 steels at the bottom and one steel on top, a stack height of 1.50" is a good starting point.
If you assemble the pressure plate onto the hub with no plates, it should be able to pinch down to less than 1.50".
Ok - I tore it all down again and checked everything out.
Fully assembled, with no pressure plate, there's about 2mm on teeth showing on the top of the hub. I put the stack into the oem hub, and there's slightly more showing - maybe 2.5mm.
When I put on the pressure plate, I'm able to seat it on the teeth properly, and when it torque the spring retainer bolts down, everything looks perfect.
I pull the clutch lever, and the pressure plate moves out just far enough to disengage with the teeth on the hub. Sometimes, it reengages with the teeth when I release the lever, but most of the time it rests on top of the hub, which would explain why it's not putting any pressure on the plates.
I could play with the stack height, but something doesn't feel right here. Why would a half-spent stack be too high? The spec of the stack height is +/-2mm, but it looks like I'm already too high, when I should on the low side.
Could the stack have swelled, since it's been sitting on my garage floor for a month? Does the orientation of the plates make a difference in stack height (I kept the same order for sure)?
One last thing - should I be able to observe the stack compress in any way? I mean, there's only 2mm of teeth showing when it's not under pressure, so should I be seeing a lot more once the pressure plate is squeezing it? I can't see any change to the height, but maybe that's normal.
Quote from: Speeddog on September 23, 2010, 07:57:27 PM
Is the clutch pushrod bent?
With the OEM style of 2 steels at the bottom and one steel on top, a stack height of 1.50" is a good starting point.
If you assemble the pressure plate onto the hub with no plates, it should be able to pinch down to less than 1.50".
The pushrod looks perfect, and I can't observe any scoring, bends, or anything.
If I remove a few plates, the pressure plate easily compresses beyond where the stack is ending - probably 3 mm beyond it. I don't think it's bottoming out on anything, other than the teeth on the hub. (see other post).
If you have any old steel plates around you should be able to swap a 2.0 for a 1.5....
I still don't think you should have to jump through hoops to make a stock clutch stack work.
Last update - hopefully.
I measured the uncompressed stack height, and I'm at 40.5 mm. With the spec being 38+/-2mm, it means that my half-shot stack is too high. No clue how or why, but I guess it explains not fitting on the hub correctly.
I recently had the clutch checked out, and I'm wondering if the mechanic did something funny, like swapping some 2mm steels into the mix. I will be tearing it all down again over the winter, so I will check it out then.
In the meantime, I removed one of the steels at the bottom of the pile, putting my stack height at 38.5mm uncompressed. I slapped it all together, and it works fine as far as I can tell. I trip on the highway will tell me there's any slip, but it easily power wheeled in second without problem, so I think im alright. Finding neutral feels normal, as well as launching from stop.